open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [proposal] Duels, the best way to approach it
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

TheExtruder
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.04 07:16:00 - [1]
 

You know how in ancient times Warlords and Emperors had their best fighters battle with the opponents best fighter. Eve can also follow this tradition.

Only make one simple change, make the CEO's of corporations like Warlords and Emperors, give them the power to allow up to 10 members of the corp to have 'killrights' on an equal force of the opponents corp.

Basically the CEO's will be able to open up a 'trading window' with eachother. And into that window they will drag the names of the people they want, and also the ships that are allowed into the fight.

In the end when both parties are satisfied with what is in the 'trading window' the fighting can start after 20 minutes time. Killrights will last for 40 minutes.

When a corp wants to wardec somebody, they can choose to give the target corp a chance of canceling the war dec if they win the '10v10 tournament'

The argument why duels should exist in the world of eve: It's human nature to fight with pride and honor. The human condition means ego, and ego means personal pride, so cheating in a fight is not as easy alot of the times because the ego will prevent you from calling the cavalry to a seemingly fair battle.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.04 12:51:00 - [2]
 

Why is it people want to have artificial mechanics to control player actions in eve?

TheExtruder
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.04 13:27:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Why is it people want to have artificial mechanics to control player actions in eve?


1. people have been making 'honorable fighting agreements' since the dawn of time, so there is nothing 'artificial' about it. (And also this sort of arrangenged fights are not very solid contracts, the opponent can still cheat to a certain extent, for example a bunch of 'out of corp logistics' could still interfear etc.)

2. you're not being constructive, maybe you should take a quick look at forum rules m8. We're all here to vote, and help develop ideas, period.

Also these sort of fights could potentially be strictly made for 0.5 systems or below, so that it doesnt become to strict of a 'contract'

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:05:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.


If that where true, you wouldn't need artificial constructs for your duels now would you ?






De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:18:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: TheExtruder
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.


While that may (or may not) be true, it is only true because in the real world there are consequences for not doing so. Society shuns those individuals who fail to keep their word or who cheat at competitive events.

In Eve the opposite is true. There are no long term consequences for a lack of honor. In fact, some people revel in it and tell boastful stories of how they tricked an enemy into a "fair" fight. Far from being shunned, they are given accolades for their behavior.

Eve is not fair. it never will be, and if you think it should be, you're a hopeless romantic who will soon part company (explosively) with your ship.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:30:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ya Huei
Quote:
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.

If that where true, you wouldn't need artificial constructs for your duels now would you ?
Ah, but you don't need artificial constructs to fight with pride and honor, you need artificial constructs to not have CONCORD on your ass when you want to duel :)

Of course, you can start a war or steal a bookmark from each other, but the first is a bit over the top for a simple duel (and: it takes 24h to start) and the second is cumbersome for a 10 on 10 :)

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:30:00 - [7]
 

there's already at least half a dozen mechanics in hi sec only to do this. how about just using existing mechanics.

also get out of hi sec and be less *****


TheExtruder
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:30:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ya Huei
Quote:
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.


If that where true, you wouldn't need artificial constructs for your duels now would you ?








Ya Hueinm, obviously I meant that it's only part of human nature to do things like that, you don't have to take this rough draft of the idea so literally mate. And please read forum rules before you make more comments, you are unnecesarily bumping this thread for no good reason.

TheExtruder
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:58:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: TheExtruder
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.


While that may (or may not) be true, it is only true because in the real world there are consequences for not doing so. Society shuns those individuals who fail to keep their word or who cheat at competitive events.

In Eve the opposite is true. There are no long term consequences for a lack of honor. In fact, some people revel in it and tell boastful stories of how they tricked an enemy into a "fair" fight. Far from being shunned, they are given accolades for their behavior.

Eve is not fair. it never will be, and if you think it should be, you're a hopeless romantic who will soon part company (explosively) with your ship.


Did you just call me a hopeless romantic and that I will blow up for some reason?Rolling Eyes
Anyway, my counter argument to your 'eve should never be fair' is that while the existing game mechanics are great, eve has to keep growing as a game and eventually introduce additional mechanics to adress the people in the game who are not as much into the whole 'hide and seek game' where one has to travel 100+ jumps just to get some action.

And if you look at CCP's current focus which is Incarna with its 'attract new people to try the game and keep people playing' then I would say this is one of the few ideas out there that is actually in sync with what ccp is trying to accomplish nowadays. For example I would much more prefer that ccp fixes hybrids just like many others would, but unfortunately ideas like this one would probably get more attention from ccp than any other idea that is not in sync with what they are focusing on right now with Incarna.

In any case it is just an idea for us to discuss, and I don't really agree with your 'hopeless romantic argument' that the idea of new agression mechanics introduced into the game is hopeless, it could happen sooner than you thinkSmile

Nariya Kentaya
Coalition Of Gentlemen.
Posted - 2011.08.04 22:57:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: TheExtruder
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: TheExtruder
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.


While that may (or may not) be true, it is only true because in the real world there are consequences for not doing so. Society shuns those individuals who fail to keep their word or who cheat at competitive events.

In Eve the opposite is true. There are no long term consequences for a lack of honor. In fact, some people revel in it and tell boastful stories of how they tricked an enemy into a "fair" fight. Far from being shunned, they are given accolades for their behavior.

Eve is not fair. it never will be, and if you think it should be, you're a hopeless romantic who will soon part company (explosively) with your ship.


Did you just call me a hopeless romantic and that I will blow up for some reason?Rolling Eyes
Anyway, my counter argument to your 'eve should never be fair' is that while the existing game mechanics are great, eve has to keep growing as a game and eventually introduce additional mechanics to adress the people in the game who are not as much into the whole 'hide and seek game' where one has to travel 100+ jumps just to get some action.

And if you look at CCP's current focus which is Incarna with its 'attract new people to try the game and keep people playing' then I would say this is one of the few ideas out there that is actually in sync with what ccp is trying to accomplish nowadays. For example I would much more prefer that ccp fixes hybrids just like many others would, but unfortunately ideas like this one would probably get more attention from ccp than any other idea that is not in sync with what they are focusing on right now with Incarna.

In any case it is just an idea for us to discuss, and I don't really agree with your 'hopeless romantic argument' that the idea of new agression mechanics introduced into the game is hopeless, it could happen sooner than you thinkSmile


be in fleet, get shot, whole fleet gets kill rights, your duel just became blob warfare, congratz, you just thought up another pointless mechanic.

also, low/null you dont need to worry about concord, and i can only assume thats who you actually meant because i dont remember there ebing in warlords or competent generals/leaders in high-sec.

would be much easier and less hastle to just can-flip to start the duel...

TheExtruder
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.05 00:14:00 - [11]
 

Nariya you say I came up with a pointless mechanic. Wrong. No idea is pointless, since Assembly Hall is a space created for all ideas to be discussed and voted upon, there is no such thing as a pointless idea. So please be more specific or constructive about what you say in here, we are not interested in your attitude, we are interested in the development of ideas and how efficiently we can do it.

and about your argument "be in fleet, get shot, whole fleet gets kill rights, your duel just became blob warfare, congratz", Nariya you are thinking to small because majority of people will never do this, especially those who are newer to eve. Also for alot of people in eve lowesec/null is a big block, they wont go there to seek 'fair fights'
So basically my counter argument is that something more large scale is needed, you can't expect everybody to suddenly be loaded on courage and wit and do a series of risky things. There has to exist a middle ground. Eve eventually has to reach out to these people who are needing a little charity in the PvP department.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.05 03:11:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 05/08/2011 03:16:12
Originally by: Ya Huei
Quote:
It's human nature to fight with pride and honor.


If that where true, you wouldn't need artificial constructs for your duels now would you ?



^^ This.

There are already a few mechanics that allow for people to have 1v1s. Neutral

Mechanic 1: both "duelists" jettison a jetcan with 1 ammo apiece. Both take from the opponent's jetcan. Now both players have aggro on each other and can engage at will without CONCORD involvement.
The only downside with this is that by taking your opponent's jetcan you are not just "shootable" by your opponent, but his/her entire corp. Then again, that person is engaging in an HONORABLE dual with you... so won't have to worry about them getting involved... right?

Mechanic 2: both of you join the same corp. You can freely engage anytime, anywhere, for any reason.
The downside here is that your "opponent" might not be so "honorable" and will kill your ship and pod when you least expect it.

Mechanic 3: for the pittling price of 2 million ISK you declare war on your nemesis and ask for a 1v1 to settle things.
The downside is that it is a bit of a hassle to go through the war dec procedures and it does cost a bit of ISK (however small) to do it.

No... it sounds like you want an instanced environment where a person must conform to certain "standards" of conduct. I do not support this.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.05 07:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: ShahFluffers
No... it sounds like you want an instanced environment where a person must conform to certain "standards" of conduct. I do not support this.
That's not what it sounds like to me? To me it sounds like he want's the option to grant others kill rights on himself.

While true, all those things you mention are indeed a way to get to duel without CONCORD interfering, they are also a hassle, some even with additional downsides (which you've already mentioned).

Eve should not be a hard place, it should be a harsh place, but most importantly, it should be fun instead of GUI-imposed tedious.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only