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Hound Crendraven
Posted - 2011.08.02 19:32:00 - [1]
 

Indulge me for a few minutes. Turn your holofeeds off for a while, if you can find the off-switch. Kill the annoying Fedo in your charming Minmatar apartment and just read for a little while. Let the old Hound tell you a story.

Once upon a time, there was a poor district near the docks of the City. If you've lived on Bourynes, you don't need to ask the name of it. It's simply the City. The district itself is gone now, flattened in the name of progress and tourism. Couldn't have people living in such squalor, so they bulldozed all the hazardous apartment and tenement buildings and built a whole new tourist trap there instead. Take note of the fact that they never said they'd get the people who used to live there new homes. What the Big People say are rarely as important as the things they don't say.

Anyway, in that poor district, there was a young boy. He learned to hate fairly early in his life, as his mother turned religious in the face of a life she couldn't handle, and his father ran off because he couldn't handle his wife's newfound religion. From age six to thirteen, the boy went from thief through thug to stripper protection, and quite a few more points in between. At sixteen... he finally got out of there.

Sixteen to twenty, he spent on the streets of the City. All of them. Every street in that city has traces of the boy's passage as he immersed himself in every facet of Gallente life from the dirt-poor to ridiculously wealthy. Earning his bread and passage through jobs ranging from giving bored rich housewifes a tale to tell blushingly to their confidante rich housewife friends through acts which still to this day hide in registries detailing international terrorist activity.

It was the rich bored housewife, one of them, that discovered he had a talent. Somehow this young boy had gained the ability to see and speak the truth, and given a soap box or a piece of paper and a pencil, it flowed. Experiences and knowledge a young man should never have effortlessly wormed their way through the air or through pages, into the minds of whoever were near. People who should have the experiences and knowledge. Maybe even had it, but had decided to ignore it until reminded by this angry young man.

Twenty through forty, he spent writing. He roused enough interest to be given payment for his writing. Enough to go elsewhere and see new things to write about. New places, new people... and yet, everything was the same, everywhere. It didn't matter where you were or what the names of the places or people were. They were still just people. The same... everywhere.

Kill, eat, defecate, fornicate and die. That was the recipy throughout New Eden. No matter where he went, or what he covered, everything came down to this simple formula. There's no denying that while a successful author, the man is as hated as he is promoted. There's few things less popular than speaking the truth when it turns out to be uncomfortable. Now the man has taken another step, to see more of New Eden. To find out where humanity ends and something else begins.

Hound Crendraven have become a capsuleer. A post-human.

Hound Crendraven
Posted - 2011.08.02 19:34:00 - [2]
 

And nothing has changed. Just hours into the new life, it was easy to gain access to dozens of channels and locations exclusive to capsuleers from all walks and races of New Eden. Disappointing. Post-humanity was distinctly human in every location visited and appraised. The pirates and wannabes hanging out in the Guristas hangout in TXW. The Empire faithful and their self-proclaimed enemies smilingly jerking each other off in the Keep. the so-called scientists in Arek'jaalan and the loathsome hive of rampant ignorance and failure that was the Summit.

Post-humanity my ass. I'm among you now, watching from the capsule or from a barstool nearby. You're all human and I'm going to do the only thing I know how to do. I'm going to write it all down and try to get at the truth. It's the only thing that remains constant, besides humanity's disdain for it. It'll remain to be seen whether or not I can find it, amongst the 'post-humanity' humans.

If you hear sniffing, don't be alarmed... it's just a Hound following the scent.

Only worry if you hear the baying of hounds.

Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.08.02 19:57:00 - [3]
 

An interesting read. Glad to see a capsuleer coming from experience and "street smarts".

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.03 02:12:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Raze Valadeus on 03/08/2011 02:12:47
Your words do indeed echo of hatred and disgust. It is a curious thing that normally such a disposition is garnered because the hateful hate themselves. I wonder if that is the case here and if that is the truth you are so vehemently seeking?

You speak of being human as if it is a terrible thing, I do not believe it is. Nor will I ever believe it is, nor will I waste my time trying to argue the point with you.

You are human just as those you speak so distastefully of. My only prayer is that the truth you find will be the truth you need to find and not the truth you simply want to find.

Best of wishes to you.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.08.03 03:16:00 - [5]
 

I too was raised in Bourynes, and while I did not grow up in the place of which you speak, I have heard countless stories of dilapidated neighborhoods being converted into tourist traps in Bourynes II. My parents were scientists who studied Sansha and Sleeper technology and eventually taught at the University of Caille, where I graduated the capsuleer program from.

I believe you will find an awful lot of half-truths to decipher, Mr. Crendraven, in this universe of politicians and press. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. Sometimes you can find a diamond even in the biggest pile of excrement.

Enjoy the hunt.

Uraniae Fehrnah
Posted - 2011.08.03 08:04:00 - [6]
 

I'm curious as to what you had expected or hoped to find in this so called "post-human" state? Did this boy, this young man, grow hearing tales of the celestial demigods? Did the planetside masses speak with equal parts reverence and fear when they uttered stories of a heaven filled with gods and goddesses capable of immense compassion and unspeakable horror?

It's no surprise to me that you find your "post-humanity" to be disappointing. The overinflated gossip and rumors of capsuleers are exactly that, overinflated gossip and rumors. The notion of our apparent godhood is a delusion perpetuated by the narcissistic among us, and carried down to the masses, truly, because it serves many a purpose. I'm sure there will be those who disagree, some perhaps quite intently, but we are still simply humans. Granted we are more capable of larger scale machinations than non-capsuleers. The man with a boat is more capable of crossing an ocean than the man who would only swim, but the man with the boat is still a man.

If you truly wish to find something that is beyond humanity, I suggest you delve into emergent artificial intelligence or xenobiology, because no matter what tools and toys a man can create or use he will still simply be a man.


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.03 08:14:00 - [7]
 

It comes as no surprise to me that the Federation has places such as the City.

Gallentean human rights campaigners should look at their own nation before they criticise the practises of others.

Dilaro thagriin
Posted - 2011.08.03 11:50:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
It comes as no surprise to me that the Federation has places such as the City.

Gallentean human rights campaigners should look at their own nation before they criticise the practises of others.



You have no right to speak about any other race's 'bad habits' Slaver.
Every empire has it's underclass, only yours has an institutionalised need for one.

Amarrians should look at their own nation before they criticise anything, about any empire.

Blake... do the universe a favour, go take one dose of vitoc. then wait a month.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.03 13:19:00 - [9]
 

I believe it is safe to say that all governments and people should look inward before looking outward. Be it to resolve problems of government, business, conscience or ethics.

We could point fingers at others' faults and injustices until the end of time, but only when we look inward to resolve our own matters first can we truly address others.

Also, I believe you meant "Vitoxin" not "Vitoc." Vitoc is the antidote, Vitoxin is the poison.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:13:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 03/08/2011 14:13:06
Originally by: Dilaro thagriin
Originally by: Rodj Blake
It comes as no surprise to me that the Federation has places such as the City.

Gallentean human rights campaigners should look at their own nation before they criticise the practises of others.



You have no right to speak about any other race's 'bad habits' Slaver.
Every empire has it's underclass, only yours has an institutionalised need for one.

Amarrians should look at their own nation before they criticise anything, about any empire.


Admiral Blake's point was precisely yours. Eventually, you both agree on that from what it seems.

And your words are purely hypocritical if I may. Every economist should know that every capitalistic ecomony needs inegalities to work properly. Change the federal hypercapitalistic system if you really want to abolish poverty and misery. Though of course, it is not said it will work, because such a thing still has to happen eventually.

Hound Crendraven
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:38:00 - [11]
 

Tell me, New Eden, what you think. Where does humanity end and something else begin?
I'm starting to think you can't escape humanity no matter how far you run.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:44:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hound Crendraven
Tell me, New Eden, what you think. Where does humanity end and something else begin?
I'm starting to think you can't escape humanity no matter how far you run.


"Humanity" ends in death, either in the death of that which makes us human or in physical death.

Faith is the road to which you can find something beyond humanity. Only in faith can God be found and only God can bridge the gap between humanity and Divinity.

Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.08.03 19:57:00 - [13]
 

I may have some more definite answers for you, Hound. The ones you seek about Nation.

Kithrus
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.03 22:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dilaro thagriin
Originally by: Rodj Blake
It comes as no surprise to me that the Federation has places such as the City.

Gallentean human rights campaigners should look at their own nation before they criticism the practices of others.



You have no right to speak about any other race's 'bad habits' Slaver.
Every empire has it's underclass, only yours has an institutionalized need for one.

Amarrians should look at their own nation before they criticism anything, about any empire.

Blake... do the universe a favor, go take one dose of vitoc. then wait a month.


Yes because its much better to live in a Republic free under a bridge demand a crust of bread from your own elite who are drawing on restitution money from the Amarr and the gift of the Gallentean government?

Lest in the Amarr Empire the lowest of classes has a bed, three meals a day and an education.

But if you rather they be free and starving then sure... You only want whats best I suppose.

Leave his Lordship alone, lest he makes a point that each should look to her own boarders befor mocking a system and frankly your Republic needs much work.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.04 10:32:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Originally by: Hound Crendraven
Tell me, New Eden, what you think. Where does humanity end and something else begin?
I'm starting to think you can't escape humanity no matter how far you run.


"Humanity" ends in death, either in the death of that which makes us human or in physical death.

Faith is the road to which you can find something beyond humanity. Only in faith can God be found and only God can bridge the gap between humanity and Divinity.


Which means capsuleers and dead people are not human anymore ?

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:29:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Raze Valadeus on 04/08/2011 14:32:02
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Originally by: Hound Crendraven
Tell me, New Eden, what you think. Where does humanity end and something else begin?
I'm starting to think you can't escape humanity no matter how far you run.


"Humanity" ends in death, either in the death of that which makes us human or in physical death.

Faith is the road to which you can find something beyond humanity. Only in faith can God be found and only God can bridge the gap between humanity and Divinity.


Which means capsuleers and dead people are not human anymore ?


What sort of question is this?

Biologically, capsuleers are human just as any other human is.

Anyone, capsuleer or not, can forsake their humanity by discarding compassion, kinship and other qualities that keep us human in character.

To answer your question more aptly: Biologically human and characteristically human are very different things and one is not dependent on the other.

As for dead people? A body absent life is an empty shell, a corpse. It is biologically dead and absent of character. That does not remove emotional attachments and respect that were attributed to the person in life and the body is often treated with regard due to these aspects of human character. But the body is nothing without life except a body.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.04 14:59:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Edited by: Raze Valadeus on 04/08/2011 14:32:02
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Originally by: Hound Crendraven
Tell me, New Eden, what you think. Where does humanity end and something else begin?
I'm starting to think you can't escape humanity no matter how far you run.


"Humanity" ends in death, either in the death of that which makes us human or in physical death.

Faith is the road to which you can find something beyond humanity. Only in faith can God be found and only God can bridge the gap between humanity and Divinity.


Which means capsuleers and dead people are not human anymore ?


What sort of question is this?

Biologically, capsuleers are human just as any other human is.

Anyone, capsuleer or not, can forsake their humanity by discarding compassion, kinship and other qualities that keep us human in character.

To answer your question more aptly: Biologically human and characteristically human are very different things and one is not dependent on the other.

As for dead people? A body absent life is an empty shell, a corpse. It is biologically dead and absent of character. That does not remove emotional attachments and respect that were attributed to the person in life and the body is often treated with regard due to these aspects of human character. But the body is nothing without life except a body.


I think there might be a misunderstanding, then. When you stated that Humanity ends in physical death... Well, I already died several times physically.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.04 15:11:00 - [18]
 

It is indeed a misunderstanding, but it is also an intricate and complex discussion to be had. I will not continue it here.

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.06 08:43:00 - [19]
 

The technology to step into the next epoch is there. The will is not. The trappings and social patterns of human civilization cannot change whilst nestled in man's/woman's violent and greed based social structures.

There are those however that fight to free humanity from it old ways and open the door to that new epoch.


Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.06 11:35:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Saul Dhampir
The technology to step into the next epoch is there. The will is not. The trappings and social patterns of human civilization cannot change whilst nestled in man's/woman's violent and greed based social structures.

There are those however that fight to free humanity from it old ways and open the door to that new epoch.




Blatant attempt to derail a thread on post humanity for recruitement purposes, especially when the post-humanity the Star Fraction offers remains an illogical chimera.

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.06 12:11:00 - [21]
 

Blatant recruitment? Yes. Derail? No.

The gentleman speaks of post humanity. That is what we fight for. People like you fight for the continuation of humanity as it is. I at least offer something. You simple shout and flame at others offering.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.06 20:04:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Saul Dhampir
Blatant recruitment? Yes. Derail? No.

The gentleman speaks of post humanity. That is what we fight for. People like you fight for the continuation of humanity as it is. I at least offer something. You simple shout and flame at others offering.


And you speak out of ignorance. I have my own beliefs on post-humanity.

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.06 20:58:00 - [23]
 

I am sure you do. But it would seem they are irrelevant. I know who you are, I know who you fly for, and I know who they fly for. And I know what they want.

Hound Crendraven
Posted - 2011.08.06 22:06:00 - [24]
 

It is indeed a shameless plug, but since this entire thread is a shameless plug of my current Galnet publication portal, it's not exactly a heinous sin. It being quite relevant to the topic at hand, it's in fact welcome. I have heard much of Star Fraction and it's post-humanism philosophies and desires but I've yet to see actual post-human tendencies from that side. Might bear further investigation, though.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.06 22:17:00 - [25]
 

In theory, "post-humanity" can refer to ways of how we all can progress beyond our current situation. I'm not quite sure why the term is used, though - in this interpretation, it's a development of humanity, not abandonment of humanity for something "beyond" it.

In reality, "post-humanity" is rarely used for anything more than a thinly-veiled excuse to behave like savages.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.07 13:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Saul Dhampir
I am sure you do. But it would seem they are irrelevant. I know who you are, I know who you fly for, and I know who they fly for. And I know what they want.


Obviously not.

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.07 13:14:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Saul Dhampir
I am sure you do. But it would seem they are irrelevant. I know who you are, I know who you fly for, and I know who they fly for. And I know what they want.


Obviously not.


So the Knighthood of the Merciful Crown no longer fight for the Amarr Empire... Ok.



Originally by: Arkady Sadik
In theory, "post-humanity" can refer to ways of how we all can progress beyond our current situation. I'm not quite sure why the term is used, though - in this interpretation, it's a development of humanity, not abandonment of humanity for something "beyond" it.

In reality, "post-humanity" is rarely used for anything more than a thinly-veiled excuse to behave like savages.


I think the term is well understood, as is the context. Jovian technology has given themselves and the rest of humanity the ability to live beyond the mortal coil. Your birth body is no longer necessarily the limits of your life. The ability to create a new body, whether a copy of your own or otherwise, and shift your brain state around is, by definition, post-humanity.

Of course, with this technology also comes the ability to not rely on an organic body at all. The ability to interface with a star ship and become itís brain being the most obvious and relevant one to us. All be it, with the body still in the works as part of the interface. But look at the ĎSleepersí. Our ancient technology and exploration division, Newtonís Wake, currently has a line of research and thinking that the people who created the structures, and the ships (drones) we call ĎSleepersí were Jovian. If this is in fact true, then it might be that a faction from within their society tried to become an upload culture in an attempt to escape from, even if temporarily, the Jovian disease. Of course, one might ask, would it still manifest in there digital reality or is it specifically linked to there organic bodies? The question is what went wrong? Did the disease still manifest and wipe the out, leaving only the drones still following there programming? Or did they become hopelessly lost in there new infinite digital universe and forget about real space entirely?

But I am going off track. The point being this too is post-humanity. Now for the Star Fraction this technology means there needs to be a fundamental shift in how society works. But, I am not going to talk about that. There are numerous threads with people arguing for or against SF and itís ideas. Letís not make this another one. Our politics area easy to find for those who want to.


Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.08.07 17:29:00 - [28]
 

Mr. Crenhaven:

I'm curious what characteristics you expected a posthuman to have. How did you expect us to differ-- or did you?

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.07 17:53:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Saul Dhampir
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Saul Dhampir
I am sure you do. But it would seem they are irrelevant. I know who you are, I know who you fly for, and I know who they fly for. And I know what they want.


Obviously not.


So the Knighthood of the Merciful Crown no longer fight for the Amarr Empire... Ok.


I do not see what this has to do with the Knighthood, the Empire, and even less with me.


Originally by: Saul Dhampir
Now for the Star Fraction this technology means there needs to be a fundamental shift in how society works. But, I am not going to talk about that. There are numerous threads with people arguing for or against SF and itís ideas. Letís not make this another one. Our politics area easy to find for those who want to.



If you are not going to talk about it, why even mentionning it ?

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.07 21:23:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 07/08/2011 21:23:55

Originally by: Lyn Farel

If you are not going to talk about it, why even mentionning it ?


I did not deny doing a shameless recruiting plug.



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