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blankseplocked [Proposal] Exploding ships do damage.
 
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.08.13 10:00:00 - [31]
 

no

absolutely no, because tacklers would just blow up all time

people should undock more and think less.


Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.14 01:58:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Nur AlHuda
Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 12/08/2011 14:01:25
I like the idea. Already its strange that no friendly fire is turned on and lasers and ammo can go trough your ship without cousing any damage.


"weird" you mean "practical"
Anyone with a computer science background will understand that this is not feasible.
If you think you have bad lag now imagine if the server had to calculate occlusion and edge detect dynamics. Not possible with the current state of technology


Sephiroth CloneIIV
Rim Worlds Republic
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.14 03:25:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Great idea.

I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire.


no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest...

on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly


Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner.

Tub Chil
Posted - 2011.08.14 09:39:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Tub Chil on 14/08/2011 09:39:36
so ganking people in jita is a bad thing?

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.08.14 23:51:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV
Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Great idea.

I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire.


no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest...

on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly


Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner.


That does make a lot more sense. Another concern that was brought to my attention would be war dec mechanics while on station and on gates. How would we circumvent damage done by an exploding ship to an innocent bystander on a station or gate that has nothing to do with the wardec when hit by the exploding ship? Any suggestions on this?

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:37:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV
Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Great idea.

I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire.


no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest...

on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly


Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner.


That does make a lot more sense. Another concern that was brought to my attention would be war dec mechanics while on station and on gates. How would we circumvent damage done by an exploding ship to an innocent bystander on a station or gate that has nothing to do with the wardec when hit by the exploding ship? Any suggestions on this?


You are just noticing this now? I thought that we already went over the problems with this when the point of chain reaction blow ups at Jita. Wardecs have little to do with it. There will always be bystanders.
You either treat them like smartbombs launched by the final blower or don't count them as aggro.
Both have problems. The first will add a loophole to wardec'd players with human shields, the latter will result in many innocent deaths at station gates. Nobody has yet proposed a sufficient solution to this.
Let me try, make it no aggro from the final blower, no aggro from exploder, no killmail prize to anyone, but make starting aggro within 20km of stations concordable. EVEN with a legal wardec due to danger to innocents. This includes self destructs. You will get sec penalties. Next, make sure that the damage from self destructing ships that are cheap and replaceable can't even destroy a rookie ship, to avoid mass grieving.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:51:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV
Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Great idea.

I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire.


no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest...

on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly


Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner.


That does make a lot more sense. Another concern that was brought to my attention would be war dec mechanics while on station and on gates. How would we circumvent damage done by an exploding ship to an innocent bystander on a station or gate that has nothing to do with the wardec when hit by the exploding ship? Any suggestions on this?


You are just noticing this now? I thought that we already went over the problems with this when the point of chain reaction blow ups at Jita was brought up. Wardecs have little to do with it. There will always be bystanders.
You either treat them like smartbombs launched by the final blower or don't count them as aggro.
Both have problems. The first will add a loophole to wardec'd players with human shields, the latter will result in many innocent deaths at station gates. Nobody has yet proposed a sufficient solution to this.
Let me try, make it no aggro from the final blower, no aggro from exploder, no killmail prize to anyone, but make starting aggro within 20km of stations concordable. EVEN with a legal wardec due to danger to innocents. This includes self destructs. You will get sec penalties. Next, make sure that the damage from self destructing/exploding ships that are cheap and replaceable can't even destroy a rookie ship, to avoid mass grieving. Fixes station gaming too griefers will hate this.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.08.16 01:27:00 - [38]
 

This doesn't have anything to do with chain reactions. So I am not sure where that comment comes from. As for your proposal...it would work. The idea another person mentioned earlier was to limit the damage to a certain percentage. I was thinking of something along that line but making the percentage based on the mass of the exploding ship and then treating the explosion itself like a smartbomb or missile using the usual mechanics. Not sure about not having any killmail prize to anybody...thats kind of unavoidable but after thinking on it the GCC should go to the last person to fire on the exploding ship. Keep self destruct only capable 250 km off the gate. That way GCC could go to someone who self destructs but never on a gate or station. But yes I agree...any amount of damage that could ultimately destroy any ship with full shields and armor is too much.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.16 10:59:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 22:15:05
Well to me bystanders are bystanders. Whether they get hurt by a chain reaction or just the initial splash, really is irrelevant. Bystander damage needs to be treated as gcc on the aggressors, so we agree there. And self destructing in range of a station is counted as aggression.
Where gcc should go in a non suicidal case is up for debate. I prefer the final blower. As the splash damage is a result of their action.

Killmail we disagree on. We need to give NO reward for damage from splash if the receiver of the damage isn't in the same gang as the primary target. (innocent bystanders).
Only if the damage is taken by a fleet mate or a player sharing a gcc or aggros flag (ie helping the primary target) should killmail be given to aggressors for splash damage kills.

Limiting percentage of damage by ship mass (receiver) makes sense. But we still need to make ANY splash aggro damage around a station concordable. Why? Because if not then griefers will just sit at stations and mass shoot all wardecd people for fun. Pick a big enough corp to wardec life eveU and you have plenty of targets exiting Jita at the same time. They can shoot at their war targets but if anyone is hurt on explosion, concord beats them for it.
Make this station 'concord safety' area 15km else people will use bystander human shields everywhere.

This makes the only safe place to shoot war targets at gates( or deadspace) But at least there bystanders have a fighting chance to avoid unwanted splash due to random spawn, the 30 second cloak (which should make you invulnerable to splash) and you can time your incoming jumps not to be too close to others, unlike stations where you don't know when others undock.

If you do get hit accidentally, and were damaged already so you happened to blow up, no killmail prize for the aggressors for the bystanders one again. No incentive fo causing collateral damage.
Unless the bystander was a ally of the prime target.

Bystanders naturally then should avoid staying too close to a ship being shot.
Same goes to fleetmates. Within station zone, aggro will reduce. As bystanders can get aggressors concorded.




Suiken-user
Posted - 2011.08.17 12:53:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi

Simply put...a ship blows up then it should deal damage to every other ship around it within proximity.


Ye sure, lets **** up blaster boats even more. I imagine pvp situation if you manage to kill BS yourself being deep in hull. Now would that be something?

I would personally gather all alliance with 10% hull battleships and let one guy selfdestruct. Imagine chain reaction on 4-4.

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:04:00 - [41]
 

2 things people are not reading.

#1) It does dmg based on sig radius....so no tacklers will not all die.
#2) The damage done would be less than a smart bombing battle ships getting a few pulses off. If i want to gank you in high sec with aoe dmg there is far far more effecient and practical ways of doing it than suciding my own ship.

these are the main concerns raised and they are somethign to be balanced out. the concept of this mechanic is sound.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:46:00 - [42]
 

I don't see how this will be a problem for blaster boats at all. Typically the larger the ship the larger the range even with blasters. The smaller the ship the faster they are so they are a lot less likely to get hit and even if they do the damage will be a lot less. The explosion radius doesn't need to be all that great either. 7.5k...maybe 10 unless we base the explosion radius on the size of the ship as well. Most blasters if I am not mistaken fire well out of that range optimally. Might be nice to see capitals have an explosion radius of 25k or so...


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