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stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:07:00 - [61]
 

www.tomshardware.com has a "build your own" section where they try to get best gaming performance for a given price range.

Ex: System Builder Marathon, June 2011: Alternative $2000 PC

System Builder Marathon, June 2011: $500 Gaming PC

The site also contains a crazy list of GPUs and how they perform for various games and apps.
Best Graphics Cards For The Money: August 2011

Performance Charts Graphics Cards


Personal Experience with building PCs:

* Roomy cases are nice.

* Quality components are normally worth the money.

* NVIDIA: Skimping on your GPU now to upgrade to SLI or a bigger GPU later doesn't really work, IMO. By the time you're ready to upgrade, the newer single GPU cards will outperform your older SLI and will be cheaper. (Often, new cards are actually two GPUs on one board.) Or the next gen of video cards will require a next generation GPU slot that's only found on the next generation of motherboards.

Random Observations:
Building a rig to be upgradeable is a losing battle. The manufacturers seem familiar with the concept of planned obsolescence and the performance (and price) of next gen equipment tends to make upgrading old PCs unattractive.

If you're not a graphics *****, meaning you don't need to play the latest performance pushing FPS at max quality at 1600x1200 or higher resolution, then you don't need to upgrade your PC very often.

* Buying an off-brand PSU is like spending tens of thousands of dollars in fertility treatments and then, after the baby arrives, driving your child home in an improvised car seat made from a dresser drawer secured with twine.

SSDs rock. On a personal note, moving your User folder and swap file to a non-SSD drive to save wear and tear on the SSD isn't worth the performance hit.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:31:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon
As I said before you should report your post to have it stickied.

Did that soon after it was first mentioned. Nothing happened Wink

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.08.18 05:48:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
* NVIDIA: Skimping on your GPU now to upgrade to SLI or a bigger GPU later doesn't really work, IMO. By the time you're ready to upgrade, the newer single GPU cards will outperform your older SLI and will be cheaper. (Often, new cards are actually two GPUs on one board.) Or the next gen of video cards will require a next generation GPU slot that's only found on the next generation of motherboards.

* Building a rig to be upgradeable is a losing battle. The manufacturers seem familiar with the concept of planned obsolescence and the performance (and price) of next gen equipment tends to make upgrading old PCs unattractive.

If you're not a graphics *****, meaning you don't need to play the latest performance pushing FPS at max quality at 1600x1200 or higher resolution, then you don't need to upgrade your PC very often.


Totally agree - These two go hand in hand. I'd avoid SLI setups alltogether, even when new, since they usually are more trouble than they're worth. Benchmark figures are nice but pointless.

From my experience: Get a good graphics card now (like a Radeon 6950/70 or GTX 560/70 and enjoy your gaming at maximum settings. In a year or two, a graphics card upgrade to then then-fastest single GPU card is worth it if you want to keep up, but two years after that you're going to be replacing your entire PC anyway. You won't (realistically) upgrade your CPU, 4-8 gigs of RAM will serve you nicely over the next 3 or so years (never buy 'some' ram with the intent to 'upgrade later'), and if you get a half-decent CPU ( i5 2500k, phenom 955) you won't have to upgrade at all untill your next full PC buy.



Originally by: stoicfaux
* Buying an off-brand PSU is like spending tens of thousands of dollars in fertility treatments and then, after the baby arrives, driving your child home in an improvised car seat made from a dresser drawer secured with twine.


100% agree. It still baffles me that people skimp on this part of the PC.

Originally by: stoicfaux
SSDs rock. On a personal note, moving your User folder and swap file to a non-SSD drive to save wear and tear on the SSD isn't worth the performance hit.


100% agree again. I don't understand why so many people tell you to move almost every single file OFF your SSD - What's the point of having that speed when you don't let the swap etc use it? Wear and tear is important, yes, but it's a non-issue for a normal user (someone who doesn't copy/paste his entire disk's content 24/7) unless you want the drive to live longer than 6+ years, in which case you're better off simply buying a new one in 4-5 years instead since by then (i hope) SLC SSD's will be more affordable.

Note on SSD's for the future:

Current SSD's are made with MLC flash, Multi Layer Cell. It's cheaper to make but also easier to damage and wear out. SLC (Single Layer Cell) is far more expensive but also a little faster and a lot more durable (by over a factor of 10). SLC is dropping in price more and more, but still not enough to be feasible for consumers. The cheapest SLC SSD i saw was an enterprise level 64GB SSD that cost $700 or so.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.18 07:16:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/08/2011 07:35:10

Originally by: Reiisha
The cheapest SLC SSD i saw was an enterprise level 64GB SSD that cost $700 or so.

95$ for a 8GB size - only good for "Smart Response Technology" with a Z68 + SandyBridge combo (SSD caching)

275$ for a 32GB size - you would have a tough time fitting Win7Ult64b plus a handful of apps on that one, forget games ; probably still best option as SSD cache, but maybe with two of them in RAID0 (meh, too expensive)

but

120$ for a 20GB size makes the above ones look pretty bad in comparison (price/capacity-wise) ; still only good as SSD cache drive though, 20GB isn't really enough for anything else ; however, two of them in RAID0 could just about barely function as an OS drive - could they ? naaah, not really worth it (not yet anyway, IMO).

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.18 13:09:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
As I said before you should report your post to have it stickied.

Did that soon after it was first mentioned. Nothing happened Wink


They no love our OOPE Crying or Very sad

That or it must be a petition.

Either way, this is a thread will be a reference for me for some time to come. It should stay at the top and I wish it was around a year or more ago.


Slade

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:46:00 - [66]
 

Could anyone explain why the guy in the NewEgg video decided not to have the motherboard control the case fans?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:12:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Razin
Could anyone explain why the guy in the NewEgg video decided not to have the motherboard control the case fans?

Matter of taste, I suppose.
Amount of fine control vs annoyance in having to fiddle with it.
If you have manual control over fans, you can change it on the fly to, say, get lower temperatures at the expense of extra noise (when you're wearing headphones, for instance) or get lower noise at the expense of a few extra degrees (if you're easily bothered by any noises).

Personally, I'm not really bothered by fan noise - in fact, I sleep with my PC on *and* a rather noisy room fan also on almost always. I'd go so far as to say just keep all fans on highest setting all the time.
My brother however, he can't stand the sound of fans working, so whenever he has a choice, he'd rather have a humongous heatsink and preferably as few fans as possible (and working at the lowest possible RPM needed)... so he might be interested by manual fan control.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:44:00 - [68]
 

Thanks for the explanation.
Originally by: Akita T

Amount of fine control vs annoyance in having to fiddle with it.


Is there any tuning/adjusting involved with letting the MB control the case fans? Or is it pretty much automatic? Are all the case fans controlled from the same MB plug?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.19 05:42:00 - [69]
 

Depends on the MoBo when you connect the (usually PWM controlled) fans into MoBo chassis fan power plugs (depends how many the motherboard has, some only have one, if they even have it, others have up to four). Theoretically, the MoBo could control each individually (be it from BIOS settings or some software you install on your OS), but practically, I believe most would be adjusted the same way.
Of course, if you get some old style case fans that you have to plug into a bog standard MOLEX connector from the PSU dirrectly, there's nothing to control via the motherboard, and you would need a separate control unit (think similar to the devices used for house incandescent lightbulb dimming).

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:17:00 - [70]
 

If the fans have 4-pin PWM connectors and they're plugged into matching 4-pin sockets on the motherboard, it's usually possible to use software such as speedfan rather than having the motherboard control the fans directly.

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:24:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
If the fans have 4-pin PWM connectors and they're plugged into matching 4-pin sockets on the motherboard, it's usually possible to use software such as speedfan rather than having the motherboard control the fans directly.


I would go for a fan controller myself.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.09.09 02:06:00 - [72]
 

Well, this is one of the few threads I might bother recreating later on for the new forums, but until I do, I hope this remains on the first (or at least the second) page in OOPE when it turns read-only. I'll be out of town for the weekend, no idea if I will be able to log in at all, and probably not before these forums close.

Yuki-onna
Posted - 2011.09.09 08:31:00 - [73]
 

Out of interest, I have been toying with building a new computer again, but it has been years since my last one.

I intend to build a gaming machine with tripple monitots with option of connecting my tv/projector.

I got a budget of about 6300USD. What would you setup? I made one setup, but not sure I am happy with it, sice I am still a bit out of touch. Would be nice to see your build for comparison Smile

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.09.09 11:02:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Yuki-onna
I got a budget of about 6300USD. What would you setup? I made one setup, but not sure I am happy with it, sice I am still a bit out of touch.

Well, I wouldn't really make any builds of that type, notice how I was already apprehensive about spending even close to 2k on a machine, let alone something over 6k.
I wouldn't even really know WHAT to add to that so it wouldn't have a pathetic price/performance ratio and still spend most of the budget... assuming we're talking "tower only" (no monitor, no software, no chairs or whatever else, heh). Because if we're also talking monitors, three of these 30" 2560x1600 IPS panel monsters would set you back more than half your budget already (and who can resist a combined 7680x1600 resolution, muahaha). Or, you know, at least three of something like this 24" 1920x1200 IPS panel more reasonable priced monitors (and they can also pivot, so you could enjoy a 3600x1920 combined 3-monitor resolution if you keep them all in portrait mode), but that will "only" eat up about a quarter of your budget.
Yes, I have a thing for IPS panels. Actually, I have a thing for CRTs, but they stopped making those since ages ago (you can pry my 21" Eizo FlexScan F78 from my charred remains' stone cold fingers), and IPS panel LCDs are the compromise I currently hate the least.

You have two choices for the tower - either you go with a "Intel® Core™ i7-990X Processor Extreme Edition" based machine (the most monstrous desktop CPU money can currently buy - 6 cores at 3.46 GHz stock each, 12 threads), and in that case you will probably end up noticeably below budget because even if the CPU is horribly overpriced for its performance (in my opinion anyway), and even adding three of the best video cards money can buy (going out on the limb, I'll say GTX 580 and be done with it, if nothing else, then just to get closer to the total budget), you're still not really past half your budget yet (add two huge SDDs in Raid0 or something like that too) - or you go with a dual Xeon combo, but in that case, you might end up way, way above budget and/or with a pretty horrible price/performance ratio.

But like I said... 6+k budget ? Bleh.

Yuki-onna
Posted - 2011.09.09 13:27:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Yuki-onna on 09/09/2011 13:27:21
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Yuki-onna
I got a budget of about 6300USD. What would you setup? I made one setup, but not sure I am happy with it, sice I am still a bit out of touch.

Well, I wouldn't really make any builds of that type, notice how I was already apprehensive about spending even close to 2k on a machine, let alone something over 6k.
I wouldn't even really know WHAT to add to that so it wouldn't have a pathetic price/performance ratio and still spend most of the budget... assuming we're talking "tower only" (no monitor, no software, no chairs or whatever else, heh). Because if we're also talking monitors, three of these 30" 2560x1600 IPS panel monsters would set you back more than half your budget already (and who can resist a combined 7680x1600 resolution, muahaha). Or, you know, at least three of something like this 24" 1920x1200 IPS panel more reasonable priced monitors (and they can also pivot, so you could enjoy a 3600x1920 combined 3-monitor resolution if you keep them all in portrait mode), but that will "only" eat up about a quarter of your budget.
Yes, I have a thing for IPS panels. Actually, I have a thing for CRTs, but they stopped making those since ages ago (you can pry my 21" Eizo FlexScan F78 from my charred remains' stone cold fingers), and IPS panel LCDs are the compromise I currently hate the least.

You have two choices for the tower - either you go with a "Intel® Core™ i7-990X Processor Extreme Edition" based machine (the most monstrous desktop CPU money can currently buy - 6 cores at 3.46 GHz stock each, 12 threads), and in that case you will probably end up noticeably below budget because even if the CPU is horribly overpriced for its performance (in my opinion anyway), and even adding three of the best video cards money can buy (going out on the limb, I'll say GTX 580 and be done with it, if nothing else, then just to get closer to the total budget), you're still not really past half your budget yet (add two huge SDDs in Raid0 or something like that too) - or you go with a dual Xeon combo, but in that case, you might end up way, way above budget and/or with a pretty horrible price/performance ratio.

But like I said... 6+k budget ? Bleh.


Yes, it does include screens, I should have mentioned that, and mouse/keyboard (currently settled on a G500 mouse and a G19 keyboard). Smile

The reason for 6k budget is that 1) prices in my own country after conversion is a bit higher, albeit not terribly much, but still noticable and 2) I use the computer so much that I find it a worhtwhile investment. I do not watch TV, I only own a TV to watch movies on it from my computer. I use it for music as well. Not just raw gaming power.

But when it comes down to graphics, I have no real clue what I am doing as soon as I am going multiple monitors, last graphics card I got was an 8 year old Radeon hooked up to a 19 inch CRT screen. I am way out of date on the technologies there, though I got a fairly OK understanding of the CPU/Memory thing.

I also intend to use quite a few TB disks, in raid (I think it was raid 1, the backup raid configuration, perhaps raid 0 + 1), for all my files. And the SSD's as OS disks.

In what I have built it seems this will start running me towards the 6k mark Wink. 6k is not final, just what I am willing to dedicate to it, if its under its cool.

Thoose 30 inch monitores does look fine ... Smile

I will chack out you hints and see what I can come up with.


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