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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.08.01 19:50:00 - [31]
 

pcbuyer guide summer 2011

Found the link above there which'll help people here out also to add to your list of links.

AK

Tzarkan Tzeench
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:40:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
just buy this one and save your time reading stuff.

230$, motherofgod.jpg - good luck sticking THAT one in a budget build... or even a mid-range build.
Also, unless it comes with a lifetime warranty (and I'm pretty sure it doesn't) there's nothing to stop it from croaking 3, 5 or 7 years down the road. Plus, who's to say you won't need more than 1kW for your machine eventually ? Heck, right now, getting dual xeons and triple GTX 580 then overclocking everything could easily push you well above that power need.


so 1100 is highend now? i always see it as under 750 is low, 750-1500 is a mid, with anything over 1500 being high-end.

5 year ltd warranty. if it lasts more then 5 years, then good for you, but thats 2 generations of computers/upgrades right there, assuming you build new or upgrade some parts every 2.5 years. far more appetizing when you dont have to buy a new PSU in that time frame

and finally if it NEEDS 1kW to run then it probably costs over 1500USD, in which case its a highend, or a heavily upgraded medium rig. motherboards with 3x PCI-E slots are around 220ish, and i doubt anything but 3x cards would take that much power.

Aargolos
Minmatar
Estrale Frontiers
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:50:00 - [33]
 

Looking at getting a new PC, and have had some trouble figuring out what would be best for me...a friend pointed me at some deals on TigerDirect, but I've looked at some of the builds you posted lately and I'm leaning in that direction.

++1 from me, I think I'm ready to pull the trigger and build something I can play EvE on while upgrading from this 4 year old laptop which Incarna killed.

Thanks again.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:57:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 01/08/2011 23:58:09
Originally by: Tzarkan Tzeench


so 1100 is highend now? i always see it as under 750 is low, 750-1500 is a mid, with anything over 1500 being high-end.



Building, i'd say over 1k is high now. Pre-made from a retailer is another story. I put together my last rig for about 500 and I haven't run across anything it struggles on. I think too many people splurge on a high end VC or something that's generally wasted and it amps the price hard. They then turn around and tell all their friends they are OH SO GLAD to have (wasted) spent all that extra dough on the card or w/e it was that distorted the rig price and the myth continues.

That's my take anyway.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.02 00:18:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 02/08/2011 04:19:20
Originally by: Tzarkan Tzeench
so 1100 is highend now? i always see it as under 750 is low, 750-1500 is a mid, with anything over 1500 being high-end.

Under 400 low, 450-700 mid, 750-1000 high, 1000+ monster.
And even that's a bit generous.

I mean, seriously - a low-end but still nice vidcard eats up 80-130W, a mid one 130-180W, a high 180-250, monster 250+
CPUs, they start at around 75W and go up to 125W, add whatever you might be overclocking, you're still not going to go even close to 200W even with huge overclocking.
Motherboard, RAM, those two eat up 50W for lowends, 150W for monster builds.
Add another 25W-60W just in case for fans, optical drive and such.


So, you're looking at, what, 80+75+50+25=230W for the lowest lowend without overclocking and anything ?
Even with a 40% fudge factor (which is pretty huge) and you're still looking at under 350W.

And for a rather high end build but not quite monstruous ?
Let's say dual 570 in SLI mode (2x220W) with some slight factory overclock and multiple fans (call it 500W), add a 2600k (95W) with some serious overclocking (say 150W), add 150W for motherboard and overclocked memory, add another 50W for various fans and whatnot, and you're still at 850W, and adding just a 20% fudge factor (since we're already figuring in overclocking), you're still barely above 1000W, and that's with power to spare. If you DON'T overclock any of that you could maybe even get away with a quality 700W PSU, and quite certainly with a quality 850W PSU.


That's exactly what I was saying about many people hugely oversizing the PSU.
If you're EVER going to need, say, 360W for your non-overclocked machine which you don't actually plan on overclocking AND you're getting a quality PSU that's actually delivering as much as it advertises, even a 430W PSU should be more than enough under most circumstances for the entire machine lifetime and going above 500W would be a total waste.

Sgt Blade
Caldari
Save Yourself Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.02 03:19:00 - [36]
 

once we build a pc though, where do we put it Laughing any recommendations on computer tables. most tables look tacky/cheap

Mina Sulva'r
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.02 03:25:00 - [37]
 

Orgasmo-post!

Thanks Akita!

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.08.02 03:52:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Sgt Blade
once we build a pc though, where do we put it Laughing any recommendations on computer tables. most tables look tacky/cheap


I'd suggest a local yard-sale. That's where I got my desk (which would have probably run me near a hundred bux at an office supply store) for a fiver. Just be sure to check and make sure it's in good shape since you're buyin' it as-is.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.02 04:17:00 - [39]
 


Incorporated a few more clarifications and suggestions that I've received via evemail.
A note about case picking and ATX form factor, a PSU power need calculator, a few clarifications with the use of SSDs (in particular for the last sample build), fixed a typo, added some SLI//CrossfireX details (compatibility), fixed a few typos.

NeoShocker
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.02 04:45:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: NeoShocker on 02/08/2011 04:48:40
Hm, in my book, budget systems is around 500-600 bux. Mid range is $1k-$1499 and high end is over $1500.

the way I see it, budget system should last 2-3 years. Mid range should last about 5 years, and high end, it should last you over 7 years.

I spent 1k exactly almost, and after upgrading, which adds 1.3k, its still serving me well at 5 years now and I can see it'll still have life for the next 2-3 years of proper maintanance.

Vitamin B12
Posted - 2011.08.02 06:14:00 - [41]
 

Thank you for that great guide. Is there any particular reason why you choose the i5-2600k over an AMD processor?

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.08.02 12:23:00 - [42]
 

A quick note on PSU's:

Don't just get a 1000w PSU and think you'll be fine even if you're only going to get 1 mid-end videocard and a single CPU you're not going to overclock. You will be wasting a MASSIVE amount of power due to the power efficiency of a PSU which in most cases is around 85%, TOPS.

This figure is at a load of about 75% or so, say if your PC is using 750w, it's actually drawing a bit over 880w from the wall socket. If your PC only ever uses 300w at peak usage though (which is possible even for a decent mid-end build) you might be drawing 500w from the wall socket because efficiency drops as you go down, when idling, that "awesome 1000w PSU" might even be taking 200w more than you actually use...

Point being, it's NOT wise to "invest" in just a powerful PSU. It will cost you a LOT more in the end than you'd think if you're constantly pulling 100-150w more than you actually need. Good power efficiency is pretty important, also because better efficiency usually means a better PSU overall. Usually.

KHAN SUNE
Posted - 2011.08.02 14:05:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: KHAN SUNE on 02/08/2011 14:06:14
Hmm, may have overdone my new one i just built then..lol

Coolermaster HAF X Case
Corsair HX 850W ATX2.2 Modular
Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series
OCZ Agility 3 SATA III 2.5inch 120GB Solid State Hard Drive
Samsung S222AL 22x DVD+--RW Lightscribe SATA Black
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 64MB Cache Hard Disk Drive SATA (storage)
Asus GeForce GTX 580 MATRIX 1536MB GDDR5 PCIe
Intel Core i7 2600K Processor
8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 Dual Channel Memory Kit
Asus P8P67 Pro Intel P67 (Socket 1155) Motherboard

I bought this so i could play eve in max detail with a possibility of displaying across two monitors. Even though it cost a bit i'm still glad i built it... Was concidering water cooling however i believe it dosn't need it.

Shocked

o7


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.02 16:09:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 02/08/2011 16:21:55

@Reiisha : ah, the efficiency of PSUs, I knew I forgot something. Added a quick comment for that too.

Originally by: Vitamin B12
Thank you for that great guide. Is there any particular reason why you choose the i5-2600k over an AMD processor?

You mean, as an upgrade option for the third out of 3 sample builds, with 2500k as initial setup, after two previous builds with AMD CPUs, after explaining why in the previous sections ? Razz

Originally by: KHAN SUNE
Hmm, may have overdone my new one i just built then..lol

Well, it's a bit here and there, and indeed a tad bit overkill for EVE (although "just about right" for two clients inside max-detail CQ, heheh).
I personally wouldn't have bothered with a separate sound card, but it can be useful.
However, I would have probably went with a Z68 motherboard instead of a P67, just in case you ever want to use SSD caching or maybe use the embedded GPU for something (and be able to overclock that one too).

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.05 19:46:00 - [45]
 

Not even long off the front page and threads about PC building start appearing :)

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.08.07 09:00:00 - [46]
 

Agreed, thread needs some glue! (Or better yet a sub-forum).

Sandslinger
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
Posted - 2011.08.07 19:57:00 - [47]
 

+1 to sub forum on this,

Gj Akita, way to add value to the community. Very Happy

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.08.07 23:06:00 - [48]
 

I'm the type of guy that likes to build a mawnster $3000+ computer every 2-3 years.


The next one I have planned is gunna be

hex-core i7 3.2ghz - overclocked to something like 4.5ghz (maybe octa-core if they are promising at that time)

32gigs of ram

3tb HDD w/ SSD to boot windose

strongest gaming GPU to date



/free bump

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.08.08 01:25:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Aiwha on 08/08/2011 01:25:18
If you want help/advice/opinions on PC building, I advise perusing this subreddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.08.08 02:11:00 - [50]
 

One thing I have found out since I got a new current generation ATI 6950 is that these graphics cards really do push out a lot of heat. My standard sized case can't run with the lid on. Otherwise after about 20 minutes of gaming temperature of the CPU and graphics card get to 65-75C.


Diesel47
Posted - 2011.08.08 12:09:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 08/08/2011 12:11:22
Originally by: Vogue
One thing I have found out since I got a new current generation ATI 6950 is that these graphics cards really do push out a lot of heat. My standard sized case can't run with the lid on. Otherwise after about 20 minutes of gaming temperature of the CPU and graphics card get to 65-75C.



75c is fairly normal for an ATi video card. If you are buying ATi I suggest either liquid cooling or buying a case that has great ventilation.

Don't run with the case's lid off because that attracts dust into your video cards. Something that happened to me and it caused me to have even worse temperatures. I was forced to open and fully disassemble my 4870x2 and remove a pound of dust from the heatsink.

Vjorn Angannon
Fleet Escort Services
Posted - 2011.08.11 10:22:00 - [52]
 

THANK YOU very much for writing up this (Dummies) guide, Akita; this was perfectly timed for me.

Based upon what you wrote, and what a few others added, I corrected a couple deficiencies I had come up with.

Question about cases and cooling/venting.

First of all I live in the Philippines, where it gets quite hot. I have an old full tower ChiefTec case that is very, very similar to this (diff. front grill design).

I am planning on using the Corsair A70 Cooler, which will probably sit in front of the 2 80mm rear vent grills. Would it be better to put two 80mm exhaust fans in the vents, or leave empty? I am planning on two pull fans in the front grills and one in the side grill.

Again, thanks for taking the time with this thread.
Vj

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.11 14:07:00 - [53]
 


Yes, do put fans there. Just make sure they're moving air in the correct direction.

The more air flow over the cooling surfaces (and the colder the air), the better.
The main sources of heat in a typical gaming PC are (in order of heat generated from largest to smaller) the video card, the CPU, the motherboard chipset, with the HDD/SDD and system RAM heat levels depending on chosen components.

You need to decide on the air flow inside the case (with as little direction shifts as possible, preferably nothing over 90 degrees), and remember that hot air has an easier time rising than going down.
Ideally, you'd have colder air being pushed into the case from the front and bottom and being exhausted hot in the back top as the "main airflow". That's why I usually prefer compact cases with the PSU on top rather than the bottom, since this helps with the "natural" airflow by sucking hot air from near the CPU cooler upwards and backwards (the larger cases usually have a separate exhaust fan on top, so it's not an issue with them). However, this puts a bit more thermal strain on the PSU, so it's not all that rosy.
Putting your HDD right in front of the bottom front intake fans will certainly keep it cooler, but it will also slightly disturb airflow and make the intake air a bit hotter, still, overall, it's not a big deal since the HDD doesn't usually generate a lot of heat (it just has a hard time dissipating it since most HDDs don't come with heat sinks).
The video card should exhaust most of its hot air in the back (rather than laterally or inside the case) to make cooling the CPU and motherboard chipset easier - however, that makes cooling the video card a bit harder. That's why nowadays ATI cards tend to run a bit hotter while NVIDIA a bit cooler, because a lot of ATI cards exhaust almost only in the back, while NVIDIA ones tend to exhaust in all directions (a bit more in the back, but still). Not a rule, just an observation.
Would be nice if the case would have TWO side vents with fans pushing air into the case, one for the CPU and one of the GPU, but I have seen very few cases that do that. A decent alternative would be to have a much larger fan that manages to push air into the case both over CPU and GPU, potentially assisting in cooling the chipset and the RAM too in the process.

You can of course sidestep most of those issues by getting a much larger than usual case and plastering it chock-full of fans (maybe even add a few kludged ones yourself here and there if you're handy with power tools), but you might become annoyed at the noise.
Getting water cooling or a refrigeration unit are also valid alternatives, but to me that feels a bit like overkill (if only on the budget).

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.08.11 22:33:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Vogue on 11/08/2011 23:20:04
My Asus 6950 Directcu II peaks at 60C as it has a huge heatsink and two fans:-
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

I was given a Corsair Nautilus 500 water cooling kit. I am going to use the CPU heatsink and other gubbings from it to make my own custom water cooling rig using a car copper radiator that will cost about 40 from ebay.

As I am posting this my pet cat Molly is sitting on the top of my warm PC case having a Sauna Laughing

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.08.13 14:35:00 - [55]
 

I've been building my own machines for ages and totally support it.

I would say that most important component of your computer is motherboard. It pretty much states how long your other hardware nay be usable, as when you replace motherboard, some old components may not work/fit with/to the new one anymore.

That being said, choose a rather new motherboard with newest connectors and processor support you can find.

I prefer to buy all my other component from low/mid range. It is usually cost effective to buy 100$ processor to mobo and update it with another 100$ processor after 2-3 years. Mother boards usually get bios updates to even faster processors than currently are in market. Good example is my current mobo, which I linked with 2GHZ 2 core processor 2-3 years ago and recently upgraded to 4 core 3.1GHZ processor. Total cost was 200$.

GPU's (3d cards, graphics processing units) usually tend to get old very fast. They also break rather easily so it is pretty much no brainer to realize, that 50-60$ investment to one every year or every second year is much better deal than high end hardware that will be "old" in no time anyways.

Other stuff is up from your wallet. Memory is important component, so get lots of that. I could not live without sound card, because on board sounds chips are usually really crappy. I have legacy sound blaster live! and it kicks any onboard sound chip right up there. They are cheap so invest to one. You prolly never need to buy another. Hard disks are still ok and cheap storage space. Flash drive is nowdays recommended for operating system partition but anything above 60GB will be enough. They are rather expensive, but 64GB you should get with 100$.

All storage devices you can use prolly as long they won't break down. They can be moved from computer to computer. Try avoid "bad brands". Others break faster than other. Use google. Remember that dvd rom and some external (usb) storage device are good investments for backups.

I think you get the rest... nuff said :)


Nite Piper
Posted - 2011.08.13 15:09:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
I would say that most important component of your computer is motherboard. It pretty much states how long your other hardware nay be usable, as when you replace motherboard, some old components may not work/fit with/to the new one anymore.


I disagree with this. Looking back, there has only been some few limited periods when there has been mainboards standards that made sense to stick with for more than a few years - which is the viable time for a PC to be considered uptodate. And a mainboard is not an expensive part.

What has made most sense to "upgrade" has varied over time. There's no consistent rule and it's pretty difficult to make prophesies. In later years I have to say that new MB with sockets for more advanced CPUs, different memory standards and chip-sets with higher thru-put, have tended to float higher up on the list.

I have abandoned upgrading considerations for my last four builds, and just built them as balanced and good value as possible at the start. And I have to say that method has proven itself, due to that I could never predict trends.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.08.13 17:37:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
I would say that most important component of your computer is motherboard. It pretty much states how long your other hardware nay be usable, as when you replace motherboard, some old components may not work/fit with/to the new one anymore.


Strongly disagree. I'd say the PSU is the most important part. A bad PSU can fry your entire system, especially if your power at home isn't all that stable. A bad PSU will cause a lot of crashes if the electricity going into it isnt perfectly stable, maybe even otherwise.

A good PSU can last you for 10 years or so, since connections rarely change - All that was added was sata power and pci connectors, both of which can be done through molex converters. A good PSU from 10 years ago will still do well, generally.


Every single other piece of your PC (except possibly the case, actually) is much easier to replace and has a much lower chance of damaging the other parts - But ALL parts in your PC depend on the PSU first and foremost to function at even their basic levels, so don't skimp on that part. Getting a cheap one that barely covers your power requirement might come back to bite you.

Xenuria
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.13 21:49:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Magnus Veyr
Truth be told; if you need a guide on how to build your own PC, you probably shouldn't do it in the first place. Too many pitfalls, possible warranty issues and whatnot.


Yup..
I did not use a guide to build mine.

I just took 10 grand and started spending.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:28:00 - [59]
 

Well, people around here are doubtful to have 10k spending money for a machine they need mostly just for EVE, so, thread, to the top you go !

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:56:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Not even long off the front page and threads about PC building start appearing :)


As I said before you should report your post to have it stickied. I remembering reading in the past that it, at least, takes that OP's request to have a thread stickied. But then again I have miss remembered plenty of things before.


Slade


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