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Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.07.31 08:57:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 31/07/2011 08:59:25
Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 31/07/2011 08:59:09
There is a way out of US debt dilemma but it involves incredibly nasty medicine: Hyperinflation. What do you think is happening currently as Fed is doing its "Quantitative Easing" program, soon starting part 3?

Otherwise, good luck with servicing your debt.

And if some of you muppets start the WWIII, god help us all. Nukes will be flying and we`ll be frying.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.07.31 09:15:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
China has expressed marked interest in expanding into Africa, and due to no resistance on the part of western powers are moving lock step to dominate the continent in the short term and has plans to send more than 300m souls into Africa for resource exploitation and colonization.



they plan to?

they already are, at the very least on oil-rich countries. and apparently they use a much less invasive way to deal with the governments. Instead of going the way of "give us oil, we pay what we want, and you have to do this and this on your government" like the western companies go, China simply says "we want oil, we give you infrastructure." and away they go on their merrily ways, adopting a non-interfering policy on the local government, as long as the oil keeps flowing.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.07.31 09:34:00 - [63]
 

The possibility of China going to war with the US is extremely low. Both countries have nothing to gain out of this. So unless one of them makes something incredibly stupid that won't happen. On the other hand China is starving for resources. They are expanding in Africa since the West is virtually abandoning the continent. They have a nice, fat and relatively weak target up north - Russia. Russia is rotting and disintegrating slowly. As was said the population is declining, corruption is widespread, most of non-nuclear military is barely functional. In a decade or two there's a possibility Russia will not be able to hold those territories and China will get those resource rich lands.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.07.31 11:20:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Estephania
The possibility of China going to war with the US is extremely low. Both countries have nothing to gain out of this. So unless one of them makes something incredibly stupid that won't happen. On the other hand China is starving for resources. They are expanding in Africa since the West is virtually abandoning the continent. They have a nice, fat and relatively weak target up north - Russia. Russia is rotting and disintegrating slowly. As was said the population is declining, corruption is widespread, most of non-nuclear military is barely functional. In a decade or two there's a possibility Russia will not be able to hold those territories and China will get those resource rich lands.
one of the things that I've noticed about China too is that they have a mentality about not minding achieving something in 1 year or 10 years or even more. Maybe it's something ingrained on the fact that their country has been around since the Roman empire fell.

We don't see such thing on western countries. It seems like we're always in a rush and we want it all done yesterday.

Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 13:36:00 - [65]
 

*patiently waiting for IQD to revalue*

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.31 15:09:00 - [66]
 

About Nimrod and Israel.
Nimord's name suggests he is Israeli or have a relation to jewish nation. It is been known for generations that worst anti-semitic sick people came from their own nation. Same goes for any other nations. Slavofobics or anglofobics no any better. He seems to kick Israel in every topic even if it is not connected to Israel in any way.

About nukes and Israel.
Yes I think Israel made it clear that in case it's survival will be threatened it will not allow another Holocaust and will make sure to take invaders to the grave with it. What would any other nation do if they knew successful invasion will turn into total genocide of their entire population. Oh and no "soldiers" or "brave man" averted nuclear armageddon. Israel informed invading nations leaders that aircraft armed and ready with nuclear armament on runways awaiting orders and these orders will be released to them if invasion continues. Less then an hour after that message invasion on all borders halt to a full stop. Since Israel made it clear in 1973 no arab nation ever waged war against State of Israel using their armed forces again. They knew their victory will be their end. Detente policy that saved the world from nuclear exchange between USSR and USA works well in Middle East too.
Please learn history using professional literature and attend university taking a degree on the issue if interested instead of learning with help of Hollywood movies and Wikipedia. That way possible to think aliens invaded Earth multiple times and there's still battle going on in Los Angeles area.

About Israel dependence on USA and financial issues.
USA annual average going to Israel is around 3 billion. These money given under one condition. It all will be spent on equipment and services acquired from USA. So basically USA warrantees employment of a lot of people in US with these money. News for some of you. Israel spend 1 billion anually investing in US economy by either opening start-up companies or investing in other businesses. Mostly it is private investments with only small percentage coming from government.
Will Israel collapse if US defaults? Sorry to disillusion hard lined anti-israelites. No it wont. Economy of Israel not locked onto United States. But US will feel the loss of 3 billion "buy in USA" package and 1 billion investments yearly loss in unemployment raise. If US truly defaults it will have to cease that "buy in USA" package and no sane business will invest in defaulted economy. Also USA pay for R&D of its military things it do in Israel. There are no gifts from either side.

About China
It is very old and outstandingly patient civilization. They had their ups and downs many times in history. They are on the raise now but they will eventually go down again too. Their policy is very far stretched and hard to foresee. However their involvment in Africa very smart. Africa have enormous resources. They not really in use now due to development and extraction costs. Unfortunately as world resources deplete African continent resources will inevitably become more and more attractive and eventually will become worthy of extraction due to market prices. And look who's owing nearly half of these. China.
We will see that superpower well in XXI century unless politicians who is in power now won't be replaced with strategic thinkers.

About USA default.
I find it hard to belive US will default on it's debt unless the main reason of current scandal is to get rid of it. Of course it will have very serious effects on entire world economy but mostly on US economy. A lot of international businesses will pull out. Markets will go frenzy and unemployment rates will hike to enormous heights. It will get rid of US debts. It will also damage US reputation beyond recovery. At the same time it will kill China economy completely. Much of US debt owned by China. Wars start over less.
I don't think USA will default. Politicians there not that stupid.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 15:56:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Alex Sinai
Yes I think Israel made it clear that in case it's survival will be threatened it will not allow another Holocaust and will make sure to take invaders to the grave with it. What would any other nation do if they knew successful invasion will turn into total genocide of their entire population.


Who suggested another nation WOULDN'T do that? I think every nuclear power in the world would do the same, but none of the rest are facing that realtiy.

Sorry if you think i'm ragging on your country, but that's not the case here. I'm calling a spade a spade. If the US economy were to collapse, Israel becomes the world's most vulnerable nuclear power with the most volatile neighbors on earth. You're not even disputing that, so I can safely assume you agree with me.

Why you insist on making this a racist debate I will never be able to understand.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 16:25:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Bane Necran on 31/07/2011 16:31:11
Originally by: Estephania
The possibility of China going to war with the US is extremely low. Both countries have nothing to gain out of this.


Don't be so sure about that. China needs land, badly, and their generals have been quite candid several times about war with US. Most recently they said that if the US interfered and defended Taiwan they would go to war with the US. There was also a general who often went on in great length about how a war with the US was inevitable, and they're pretty much just being patient and waiting for the right time. China is not afraid of the US at all, especially when it comes to nuclear war. They might actually want a few of their cities nuked, to thin out the population.

Now that they have a stranglehold on the US dollar they'll probably crash it before taking any action, but even if they just increased the value of their own currency they would screw things up pretty good for the US. Think of how many US companies manufacture in China because its cheaper, and how big a chunk of US imports in general are made in China. Just this year US economists were collectively panicking because China is buying up massive amounts of gold, and if they plan on switching to the gold standard it would spell doom for the US and make the yuan the worlds strongest currency.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 16:53:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Edited by: Bane Necran on 31/07/2011 16:31:11
Originally by: Estephania
The possibility of China going to war with the US is extremely low. Both countries have nothing to gain out of this.


Don't be so sure about that. China needs land, badly, and their generals have been quite candid several times about war with US. Most recently they said that if the US interfered and defended Taiwan they would go to war with the US. There was also a general who often went on in great length about how a war with the US was inevitable, and they're pretty much just being patient and waiting for the right time. China is not afraid of the US at all, especially when it comes to nuclear war. They might actually want a few of their cities nuked, to thin out the population.

Now that they have a stranglehold on the US dollar they'll probably crash it before taking any action, but even if they just increased the value of their own currency they would screw things up pretty good for the US. Think of how many US companies manufacture in China because its cheaper, and how big a chunk of US imports in general are made in China. Just this year US economists were collectively panicking because China is buying up massive amounts of gold, and if they plan on switching to the gold standard it would spell doom for the US and make the yuan the worlds strongest currency.


It must be fun to be that ignorant of reality. I imagine the whole world would be full of suprises and read just like a mystery novel.

I'm jealous, tbh. Embarassed

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 16:56:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
It must be fun to be that ignorant of reality. I imagine the whole world would be full of suprises and read just like a mystery novel.

I'm jealous, tbh. Embarassed


Maybe that passes as a counter argument on yahoo, or wherever you crawled out of, but it just makes you look juvenile among adults.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 17:19:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
It must be fun to be that ignorant of reality. I imagine the whole world would be full of suprises and read just like a mystery novel.

I'm jealous, tbh. Embarassed


Maybe that passes as a counter argument on yahoo, or wherever you crawled out of, but it just makes you look juvenile among adults.


Do you really want me to take you point for point as to why all that was pure hogwash? I mean, literally nothing in that sperg post of yours meshed in the slightest with reality.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 17:35:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Do you really want me to take you point for point as to why all that was pure hogwash? I mean, literally nothing in that sperg post of yours meshed in the slightest with reality.


Please do try to argue it point for point. You may learn something. With even a brief effort on the google you'll find none of that is fantasy.

But if all you've got is insults i'm thinking this is more a matter of you being in denial of things that contradict your preferred world view, and not a matter of facts anyway.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:08:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 18:08:56
Ok Jr. take notes because this is free education.

Originally by: Bane Necran
Don't be so sure about that. China needs land, badly, and their generals have been quite candid several times about war with US. Most recently they said that if the US interfered and defended Taiwan they would go to war with the US. There was also a general who often went on in great length about how a war with the US was inevitable, and they're pretty much just being patient and waiting for the right time. China is not afraid of the US at all, especially when it comes to nuclear war. They might actually want a few of their cities nuked, to thin out the population.


Originally by: briefing, nuclear conflict and conflict resolution
The Chinese Policymaking Apparatus and the Nuclear Option

China's leadership has today achieved broad consensus that the nation's interests are best served by a stable and peaceful international environment.[9] This has given rise to the strategy of "peaceful development" (heping fazhan) often emphasized by Chinese officials. Given the consensus towards moderation in foreign and security policy, and its embodiment in overarching national policy, there is much to suggest that the use of nuclear weapons against the United States, in whatever situation, would be anathema to China's decision makers.

The new generation of Chinese leaders, which has risen to power in the aftermath of the 1989 Tiananmen Square incident (liu si), has tended to consist of moderate technocrats,[10] who are unlikely to support radical policy reversals, such as the use of nuclear weapons. Chinese politics in general have also evolved into a "more pragmatic, risk-adverse" form.[11] This process was initiated by the rise of "interest group politics" during the tenure of President Jiang Zemin.[12]

This new structure of decision-making involves the specialization of bureaucratic institutions, which have become more assertive, and occasionally resisted high-level decisions they believed to be ill conceived.[13] It is probable that certain institutions, such as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, would strongly resist the actual or threatened use of nuclear weapons against the United States in almost any situation. In a risk-adverse policy environment that seeks consensus, this kind of strong opposition may well prevail.


Originally by: Bane Necran

Now that they have a stranglehold on the US dollar they'll probably crash it before taking any action, but even if they just increased the value of their own currency they would screw things up pretty good for the US. Think of how many US companies manufacture in China because its cheaper, and how big a chunk of US imports in general are made in China. Just this year US economists were collectively panicking because China is buying up massive amounts of gold, and if they plan on switching to the gold standard it would spell doom for the US and make the yuan the worlds strongest currency.


Originally by: Conclusions about Sino-American futures
The Sino-American relationship is likely to be increasingly important as the twenty first century progresses. Its nuclear dimension is of tremendous gravity not only in the context of this broader importance, but in its own right as a reflection of changes in Chinese domestic power relationships, and how China sees itself in the world at large. The danger of hyper-nationalist influence on nuclear posture, while subject to many uncertainties and constraints, is real enough. The American reaction to Chinese nuclear force modernization has tended to emphasize developments in weapons systems themselves, or sensationalized accounts of headline grabbers such as General Zhu. However, the prospects for an actual nuclear confrontation under all but very extraordinary circumstances are low. More attention should be paid to how such circumstances may develop.


Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:13:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 18:13:15
So before you go fear-mongering based on the garbage you trawled out of the latest news-reel, you might want to pay some attention to what the professional forign-policy groups have been saying for years. It is, after all, our job to know about and manage our relationships wisely. And despite popular idiot opinion, nobody in their right mind believes China is ready to escalate into nuclear conflict as though it were a fair-trade for some land.

Your post is out-of-touch and we are all dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:13:00 - [75]
 

Thanks for reply Nimrod. :-)

I cannot agree with you that Israel will be world's most vulnerable economy with nuclear power if US defaults/collapses/whatever else US does.
Israeli economy not locked on US and military power also not locked on US despite use of lots of equipment made in USA. Actually the whole US and EU crysis stuff passed through without much notice. Israel executes very strict financial discipline and overspending or market bubbles not an issue. Either you have money to buy things or not. No free cakes. And no crysis.

Actually i would name Pakistan as extremely volatile nation with nuclear power right now. It's political stability in big question without any regard to US default or not. It have enemies on it's borders with border clashes happening between army units. Why your attention not locked on that country if nuclear exchange so much concerns you?
Because it's not Israel isn't it.

Bane i agree China look for land. Especially land north of it's borders and it does very good job of quietly populating Russian far east region with its settlers. And with Russia weakening one day Chinese government can demand land in exchange for some items based on grounds of "ethnic chinese" living there. In some of the areas there already more chinese then russians. Personally i admire chinese policy makers. They not focus on useless this day momentum. They create momentum of tomorrow.
I doubt China will go to war with US now. It's a bit too weak to wage war against whole Western Hemisphere. And they know they will be at war not only with USA. But later in XXI century if things go the way they go now it might be possible. Especially if US weakens itself by debts and overspending.

I also agree with you Bane that China can crush dollar if it really want it. Their economy locked quite hard on US so that will cost them dearly but they can inflict mayhem on markets if they wanted to.

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:19:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 18:13:15
So before you go fear-mongering based on the garbage you trawled out of the latest news-reel, you might want to pay some attention to what the professional forign-policy groups have been saying for years. It is, after all, our job to know about and manage our relationships wisely. And despite popular idiot opinion, nobody in their right mind believes China is ready to escalate into nuclear conflict as though it were a fair-trade for some land.

Your post is out-of-touch and we are all dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.


Countless times "professional foregn-policy" groups were benefactors of one or another interested parties with FBI investigations and arrests. Also countless times "professional foregn-policy" groups were so deeply mistaken that word "idiots" not even remotely describes them.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:23:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 18:28:27
Originally by: Alex Sinai
Thanks for reply Nimrod. :-)


You are welcome.

Originally by: Alex Sinai

I cannot agree with you that Israel will be world's most vulnerable economy with nuclear power if US defaults/collapses/whatever else US does.
Israeli economy not locked on US and military power also not locked on US despite use of lots of equipment made in USA. Actually the whole US and EU crysis stuff passed through without much notice. Israel executes very strict financial discipline and overspending or market bubbles not an issue. Either you have money to buy things or not. No free cakes. And no crysis.


I didn't intend it to mean most vulnerable in expressedly economic terms. I was alluding to the fact that without forign military aid it's hard to imagine there not being a conflict in the region. Relations between Israel and it's neighbor states are chilly at best and some regional powers (such as Iran) are a short sight worse. Seeing as the culture of most other regional states is reasonably homogenous and they all have publically stated their support for Palestinian interests, it would not shock me at all to see them mobilize in the absence of forign support to Israeli interests. That's not to say 1948 part2 is imminent, but you ought to be as aware as I am that tensions are high.

Originally by: Alex Sinai

Actually i would name Pakistan as extremely volatile nation with nuclear power right now. It's political stability in big question without any regard to US default or not. It have enemies on it's borders with border clashes happening between army units. Why your attention not locked on that country if nuclear exchange so much concerns you?
Because it's not Israel isn't it.


India is nuclear aswell, so I see pakistan being somewhat hamstrung by mutually assured destruction. We have historical evidence (ie. Cuban missile crisis) that shows MAD is a deterrent. In the Israeli case, none of it's neighbor states are nuclear themselves, which makes them easy targets for tactical nukes with no fear of reprisal except from third parties, although i'm willing to admit you could make a compelling argument that Pakistan would be one of those potential third parties.

Originally by: Alex Sinai

Bane i agree China look for land. Especially land north of it's borders and it does very good job of quietly populating Russian far east region with its settlers. And with Russia weakening one day Chinese government can demand land in exchange for some items based on grounds of "ethnic chinese" living there. In some of the areas there already more chinese then russians. Personally i admire chinese policy makers. They not focus on useless this day momentum. They create momentum of tomorrow.
I doubt China will go to war with US now. It's a bit too weak to wage war against whole Western Hemisphere. And they know they will be at war not only with USA. But later in XXI century if things go the way they go now it might be possible. Especially if US weakens itself by debts and overspending.

I also agree with you Bane that China can crush dollar if it really want it. Their economy locked quite hard on US so that will cost them dearly but they can inflict mayhem on markets if they wanted to.


I already handled that bit in the above.

Originally by: Alex Sinai
Countless times "professional foregn-policy" groups were benefactors of one or another interested parties with FBI investigations and arrests. Also countless times "professional foregn-policy" groups were so deeply mistaken that word "idiots" not even remotely describes them.


I don't get it. That's what we're paid to do. You've got people like us working for your own government right now. Are you saying we're all incompetent or just assuming you know better than us?

Don't confuse us with dimwit politicians. We aren't elected and we spend over a decade in school and abroad to do what we do. And we do it well I might add.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:43:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Edited by: Bane Necran on 31/07/2011 16:31:11
Originally by: Estephania
The possibility of China going to war with the US is extremely low. Both countries have nothing to gain out of this.


Don't be so sure about that. China needs land, badly, and their generals have been quite candid several times about war with US. Most recently they said that if the US interfered and defended Taiwan they would go to war with the US. There was also a general who often went on in great length about how a war with the US was inevitable, and they're pretty much just being patient and waiting for the right time. China is not afraid of the US at all, especially when it comes to nuclear war. They might actually want a few of their cities nuked, to thin out the population.

Now that they have a stranglehold on the US dollar they'll probably crash it before taking any action, but even if they just increased the value of their own currency they would screw things up pretty good for the US. Think of how many US companies manufacture in China because its cheaper, and how big a chunk of US imports in general are made in China. Just this year US economists were collectively panicking because China is buying up massive amounts of gold, and if they plan on switching to the gold standard it would spell doom for the US and make the yuan the worlds strongest currency.

In order for China and US to go to war, China would have to cross this thing called Pacific Ocean, this ocean is full of "sharks with lasers".

The only thing that makes sense for desperate Chinese to do is to invade Russia. They share a land border with Russia. They have huge land army that they can send over land, much more practical and something that land armies practice all the time. And Russia is in far worse state than US, makes it easier opponent to overcome.


Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:00:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Don't be so sure about that. China needs land, badly, and their generals have been quite candid several times about war with US. Most recently they said that if the US interfered and defended Taiwan they would go to war with the US. There was also a general who often went on in great length about how a war with the US was inevitable, and they're pretty much just being patient and waiting for the right time. China is not afraid of the US at all, especially when it comes to nuclear war.


Chinese General threatens nuclear attack on US over Taiwan.

Senior General Chi Haotion of the PLA: "Would the United States allow us to go out to gain new living space? First, if the United States is firm in blocking us, it is hard for us to do anything significant to Taiwan and some other countries! Second, even if we could snatch some land from Taiwan, Vietnam, India, or even Japan, how much more living space can we get? Very trivial! Only countries like the United States, Canada and Australia have the vast land to serve our need for mass colonization."

"It is historical destiny that China and United States will come into unavoidable confrontation on a narrow path and fight. In the long run, the relationship of China and the United States is one of a life-and-death struggle. Of course, right now it is not the time to openly break up with them yet. Our reform and opening to the outside world still rely on their capital and technology. We still need America. Therefore, we must do everything we can to promote our relationship with America, learn from America in all aspects and use America as an example to reconstruct our country. Only by using special means to 'clean up' America will we be able to lead the Chinese people there. Only by using non-destructive weapons that can kill many people will we be able to reserve America for ourselves."

"There has been rapid development of modern biological technology, and new bio weapons have been invented one after another. Of course we have not been idle; in the past years we have seized the opportunity to master weapons of this kind. We are capable of achieving our purpose of 'cleaning up' America all of a sudden. When Comrade Xiaoping was still with us, the Party Central Committee had the perspicacity to make the right decision not to develop aircraft carrier groups and focused instead on developing lethal weapons that can eliminate mass populations of the enemy country. Biological weapons are unprecedented in their ruthlessness, but if the Americans do not die then the Chinese have to die. If the Chinese people are strapped to the present land, a total societal collapse is bound to take place."

"The last problem I want to talk about is of firmly seizing the preparations for military battle. The central committee believes, as long as we resolve the United States problem at one blow, our domestic problems will all be readily solved. Therefore, our military battle preparation appears to aim at Taiwan, but in fact is aimed at the United States, and the preparation is far beyond the scope of attacking aircraft carriers or satellites. Marxism pointed out that violence is the midwife for the birth of the new society. Therefore war is the midwife for the birth of China's century.

Entire speech.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:04:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 19:06:04
Quote:
The American reaction to Chinese nuclear force modernization has tended to emphasize developments in weapons systems themselves, or sensationalized accounts of headline grabbers such as General Zhu. However, the prospects for an actual nuclear confrontation under all but very extraordinary circumstances are low.


idgi, did you not read this or are you willfully ignorant that military generals don't make foreign policy.

Are you assuming China is a military Junta?

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:05:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Bane Necran on 31/07/2011 19:10:40
Originally by: Bane Necran
Now that they have a stranglehold on the US dollar they'll probably crash it before taking any action, but even if they just increased the value of their own currency they would screw things up pretty good for the US. Think of how many US companies manufacture in China because its cheaper, and how big a chunk of US imports in general are made in China. Just this year US economists were collectively panicking because China is buying up massive amounts of gold, and if they plan on switching to the gold standard it would spell doom for the US and make the yuan the worlds strongest currency.


How China could crash the US dollar on a whim.


China possibly moving towards a gold standard.


Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
idgi, do you not read or what?


That's one random guys opinion who is no authority or expert on the matter. If you want to take that over quotes from the senior general in the PLA, that's your decision. Believe what you prefer to believe.

And all i said was that Chinese generals have been very talkative about war with the US, and it's a very real possibility that is being taken very seriously. I have proven that.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:08:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 19:11:52
lol, I like the slogan of the zerohedge website. You clearly have sources much more substantial than my professional academic sources who work in the forign policy sector of our government.

hahahaha so long as we're using crackpot sources, might as well link this: China's economy IS A LIE?!1?

INB4 ~daguvment is dumb iam internetsmart~

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:16:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
lol, I like the slogan of the zerohedge website. You clearly have sources much more substantial than my professional academic sources who work in the forign policy sector of our government.


Nice ad-hominem. I just grabbed the first one that caught my eye. There's hundreds of sites carrying that story. You can look for more yourselves, but i sense you just want to deny it all as quickly and easily as possible.

Anyway. I'm not going to continue being reasonable with someone who never progressed beyond playground arguments.

Good day, sir.

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:17:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Alex Sinai on 31/07/2011 19:17:35
Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
I didn't intend it to mean most vulnerable in expressedly economic terms. I was alluding to the fact that without forign military aid it's hard to imagine there not being a conflict in the region. Relations between Israel and it's neighbor states are chilly at best and some regional powers (such as Iran) are a short sight worse. Seeing as the culture of most other regional states is reasonably homogenous and they all have publically stated their support for Palestinian interests, it would not shock me at all to see them mobilize in the absence of forign support to Israeli interests. That's not to say 1948 part2 is imminent, but you ought to be as aware as I am that tensions are high.


Nimrod Israel did not use nuclear power in any of it's conflicts. Also Israel survived without US military power presence for a long time. USA did not sent its military units to help Israel. Help was only political and only in accordance with US interests. If interests conflicted Israel was left to deal with it on its own.
What makes you think Israel will use nuclear power if it did not use it before? Why wouldnt you chat about North Korea nuclear power? Because its not Israel.
Some people just obsessed with Israel's existance. And there's a name for that. Anti-Semitism. Especially that you manage to kick Israel in any conversation about anything that obviously apply to you.

Tensions are exactly the way enough for Palestinians to get more money in. All that "Palestinian state" thing never was about state or people. It was all about money. They don't give a **** about having their state. On the contrary if they will have normal state who would give them money. They neither need or want state. They need money and they getting it as long as they cry out loud enough.

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis

India is nuclear aswell, so I see pakistan being somewhat hamstrung by mutually assured destruction. We have historical evidence (ie. Cuban missile crisis) that shows MAD is a deterrent. In the Israeli case, none of it's neighbor states are nuclear themselves, which makes them easy targets for tactical nukes with no fear of reprisal except from third parties, although i'm willing to admit you could make a compelling argument that Pakistan would be one of those potential third parties.


Having nuclear weapons and using them is two not connected in any way things.
You have a gun. Would you go shoot people on the street? Or use it only in case you being shot at and your life is in grave danger.

United States have a conflict with Lybia. You suggesting that United States will use nuclear weapons agains it?

Your stance suggest that Israeli government is crazy. Sorry Nimrod to disappoint you but Israel is democratic state and it's government represent it's people. Attempt to imply that state's population is crazy show your true stance toward Israel.

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis

I don't get it. That's what we're paid to do. You've got people like us working for your own government right now. Are you saying we're all incompetent or just assuming you know better than us?

Don't confuse us with dimwit politicians. We aren't elected and we spend over a decade in school and abroad to do what we do. And we do it well I might add.


Yes Nimrod i do.
Academic studies does not make you knowhow for everything nor make you free of mistakes.
You study things either by reading reports or visiting for short periods of time. It wont make you see a thing apart from top of the iceberg. If you care about it at all. Most of these "groups" lobbying someone else interests and they care **** about reality. And arab countries have endless supplies of cash to make you see the world their way better.
So no Nimrod neither I nor most of thinking people trust **** to "professional foregn-policy" groups. Criminally investigated by FBI a lot of times in Washington D.C. history.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:22:00 - [85]
 

Palestinians don't want their own state?! Wrong.

The US is not in immenent danger because of Lybia. Why would we use nukes? You're being deliberately stupid.

Isreal != US. Our neighbor states don't want to kill us. Our relationship with Cuba is better than yours with anyone in the mid east.

And arab countries have endless supplies of cash to make you see the world their way better? What are you implying? If they were that rich, wouldn't they just pay us to stop supporting you?

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:43:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Alex Sinai on 31/07/2011 19:43:42
Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Palestinians don't want their own state?! Wrong.

The US is not in immenent danger because of Lybia. Why would we use nukes? You're being deliberately stupid.

Isreal != US. Our neighbor states don't want to kill us. Our relationship with Cuba is better than yours with anyone in the mid east.

And arab countries have endless supplies of cash to make you see the world their way better? What are you implying? If they were that rich, wouldn't they just pay us to stop supporting you?



LoL endless LoL
I think Bane said it the best so I hope he will not have anything against use of his words:

I'm not going to continue being reasonable with someone who never progressed beyond playground arguments.

Good day, sir.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:54:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 31/07/2011 19:54:52
You should read more

And i'm glad you've decided to take a break from posting here. I might suggest you invest that time in some reading.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.31 20:23:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Palestinians don't want their own state?! Wrong.


Palestinians are using two prong plan.

Plan Minimum.
Palestinians are refugees, exiled by the evil Israelits. Help the poor refugees!

Plan Maximum.
Palestinians get everything. No Israel. The Jews left, or dead, all gone from the area.

There is no middle plan. The plan that reconcile both sides.

Palestinians want a state on their own terms and ONLY ON THEIR terms. Therefore, as long as Israel exists, there will be no Palestinian state. Which is what Alex pointed out. Palestinians are pretty happy with their Plan Minimum because it keeps them afloat and gives them hope of reaching their Plan Maximum.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 22:34:00 - [89]
 

That may be the case, but stating unequivocally they do not desire a state is obviously false.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.31 22:40:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
That may be the case, but stating unequivocally they do not desire a state is obviously false.

It is tricky. The basic thing is that Palestinian situation was manufactured. Look at Jordan. They live in the same area. Do the same things. Fought Israel like the rest of "Palestinians". Yet, they have their country, had it for decades now. So why the rest of so called "Palestinians" do not have their own country? Who is stopping them? The answer, they are stopping themselves, like Alex inferred.


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