open All Channels
seplocked Out of Pod Experience
blankseplocked China is going to laugh at us if we don't fix the national debt.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

Author Topic

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.30 15:51:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 30/07/2011 15:51:40
Originally by: Selinate

No, I'd rather the U.S. stay on top until they "flop" if they do head down that path.


Sure, that would be great, but it's not likely. I can't crystal ball the Chinese on reform, but judging by recent history they are moving much more rapidly in the last decade toward reform. I would expect the next 10 years to herald more social reforms as they begin to realize a growing middle-class.

Honestly, China should be the least of your worries. Isreal has nuclear bombs and has made a living whoring itself to the US. goverment it's entire life. Without Uncle Sam, they haven't got a leg to stand on and literally every one of their neighbors wants them dead for their territorial expansions. If they go out, my guess is they'll go nuclear.

Akamu
Posted - 2011.07.30 16:33:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis


Honestly, China should be the least of your worries. Isreal has nuclear bombs and has made a living whoring itself to the US. goverment it's entire life. Without Uncle Sam, they haven't got a leg to stand on and literally every one of their neighbors wants them dead for their territorial expansions. If they go out, my guess is they'll go nuclear.


Are you not even the slightest bit aware that Israel's neighbors total as much military aid from the US?

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.07.30 16:37:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 30/07/2011 15:51:40
Originally by: Selinate

No, I'd rather the U.S. stay on top until they "flop" if they do head down that path.


Sure, that would be great, but it's not likely. I can't crystal ball the Chinese on reform, but judging by recent history they are moving much more rapidly in the last decade toward reform. I would expect the next 10 years to herald more social reforms as they begin to realize a growing middle-class.

Honestly, China should be the least of your worries. Isreal has nuclear bombs and has made a living whoring itself to the US. goverment it's entire life. Without Uncle Sam, they haven't got a leg to stand on and literally every one of their neighbors wants them dead for their territorial expansions. If they go out, my guess is they'll go nuclear.


Usual liberal propaganda. Don't worry about 1.5 billion strong superpower with growing ambitions, don't worry about lunatic Ahmadinejad obtaining a nuclear bomb, don't worry about North Korean dictators who starve their own ppl to death and threat to nuke the South nearly on a daily basis, but worry about Israel, and why? Because they did enormous territorial expansions (truly it's an empire on which the sun never sets LaughingLaughing). the only reason everyone could be worrying about Israel is related to Muslim states that simply cannot compromise and accept a non-Islamic state in the Middle East. The same goes not only for states, but also for minorities. Mid-East always had a large Christian minority, where is it now? It was driven out by Muslims from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Palestinian territories. their percentage is declining rapidly as the fundamentalists want to paint the mid east only with one green color. Only israel is the final obstacle to total Islamisation of the region. Strangely enough liberals support one of the most totalitarian, expansionist and oppressive ideologies, care to answer that?

mira kantos
Posted - 2011.07.30 16:57:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: mira kantos on 30/07/2011 16:57:57
if the US falls, then Israel is going to be one there own especially after upsetting half of the EU last year. what will arab neighbours do then proberbly at the urging of Iran is anyones guess, but its a know fact the last time Israel nearly lost a war they sent planes up armed with nukes. it was only cause of one brave company of soldiers did nuclear war in the middle east not happen.

the USA has been the only country so far in the world to use nuclear weapons, the trouble is latly Israel has been acting more and more agressive in its defensive policys that most of them are ilgeal but no one has the balls to step up to them cause they know that there mad enough to use them bombs and im not sure Isreal even care who they might use them on.


edits, by Isreal im talking about there goverment, im sure the ppl of Israel are just ordinary ppl like the rest of us.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.07.30 18:49:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 30/07/2011 18:54:32


Uh ... in answer to the thread title ... everyone is laughing at us - now.



As to China ... once the second generation revolutionaries die off ... they'll have a chance to get rid of the communists ... but remember - that it was the fourth or fifth generation revolutionaries that gave up on communism in the Soviet Union ... so they still may well have a ways to go.

Now ... if that big dam of theirs collapses and kills 3 million people ... then the nation may well decide that the communists have "lost the mandate of heaven" ... so to speak ... so it all depends on how things go.

They'll probably get rid of the communists sooner or later though (it's just to stupid system to last) and when they do - they'll become the worlds greatest economic power a few years later.



Now ... a real wild card here - is Taiwan. It's curious. The Mainland has pretty much accepted that they don't control the island - but - when there was talk about formalizing the reality they wouldn't accept that. Taiwan was ready to stop not only it's claim that it was the legitimate government of Mainland China - but - declare itself an independent state. The Mainland threatened to invade. The Chinese running things on the Mainland could accept Taiwan pretending to be the rightful government of China (which it effectively is not) - but they would not accept the idea that Taiwan was independent of China (which it effectively is).

What happens if they do that?

What happens if Taiwan declares its independence - the Mainland invades - and the US actually lives up to its treaty obligations and goes to war with Mainland China?

The Chinese military has been shedding itself of the Soviet Military Model after the poor showing all the nations following that model have made in whatever wars they fought. It could be a really nasty war.



Of course ... we could get hit by an asteroid or Yellow Stone could blow up ... but a war with China, though not (you would hope) probable, is more likely than that.


*shrug*

.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.30 19:54:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: mira kantos
if the US falls, then Israel is going to be one there own


If the US 'falls' it's only bad for the vast majority of citizens. The US military has been preparing since at least the 70's to survive anything you can imagine, and corporations will just pack up and move to another country, along with all the very wealthy. The same people and groups supporting Israel now will continue to, even if there's mass starvation in the US among common citizens.

Really need to stop thinking all the entities in the US are in it together. The ones who sold it down the river know damn well what's coming, and won't be going down with the ship.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.30 20:24:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Originally by: mira kantos
if the US falls, then Israel is going to be one there own


If the US 'falls' it's only bad for the vast majority of citizens. The US military has been preparing since at least the 70's to survive anything you can imagine, and corporations will just pack up and move to another country, along with all the very wealthy. The same people and groups supporting Israel now will continue to, even if there's mass starvation in the US among common citizens.

Really need to stop thinking all the entities in the US are in it together. The ones who sold it down the river know damn well what's coming, and won't be going down with the ship.


Its hard to fund a large military when you dont have the cash to pay for it.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.30 20:55:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Its hard to fund a large military when you dont have the cash to pay for it.


I seriously doubt they have all of their vast wealth in US dollars. They would likely know before anyone else if and when the economy will collapse, and not being dependant on the US dollar would be a simple matter of safety. Hell, if the SHTF they could just dream up some new currency, and pay the soldiers in that.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.30 20:58:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Akamu
Are you not even the slightest bit aware that Israel's neighbors total as much military aid from the US?


You aware of the conversation at hand or just posting spastically because you saw the word Israel?

Originally by: Bane Necran
Hell, if the SHTF they could just dream up some new currency, and pay the soldiers in that.


No, not really, lol.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.30 21:02:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Originally by: Bane Necran
Hell, if the SHTF they could just dream up some new currency, and pay the soldiers in that.


No, not really, lol.


Yeah, really.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.30 21:07:00 - [41]
 

I don't think China would try to invade Taiwan and throw us into a war like that. They know that we would oblige our agreement with them, given that we have many times in the past, and though I have very little faith in the Chinese government in any situation, I think they understand the implications of 2 nuclear powers going to war very well.

Not only that, but a war of that magnitude would not just draw in the U.S. I believe you folks in the EU would be drawn into it also fairly quickly. No one wants a war like this, again. Maybe it is misplaced, but I have enough faith in the citizens of our world today to hope that they would be able to remember how these types of wars have played out in the past, and how terrible it would be...

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.30 21:28:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Originally by: baltec1
Its hard to fund a large military when you dont have the cash to pay for it.


I seriously doubt they have all of their vast wealth in US dollars. They would likely know before anyone else if and when the economy will collapse, and not being dependant on the US dollar would be a simple matter of safety. Hell, if the SHTF they could just dream up some new currency, and pay the soldiers in that.


The military is payed for by the state, the state fund this with taxes, less taxes = less funding.

If it worked the way you think it does then the UK would still have a home fleet larger than 90% of other nations Navies.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.30 21:31:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 30/07/2011 21:32:46
Lol. There's not going to be another world war. Someone would go nucear before that happened and the conflict would stall/localize or other nuclear powers would respond and wipe humanity off the face of the earth.

Originally by: Bane Necran
Yeah, really.


You last payment must be made in wampum!

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.30 21:47:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Selinate

Not only that, but a war of that magnitude would not just draw in the U.S. I believe you folks in the EU would be drawn into it also fairly quickly. No one wants a war like this, again. Maybe it is misplaced, but I have enough faith in the citizens of our world today to hope that they would be able to remember how these types of wars have played out in the past, and how terrible it would be...

Again. I don't see how Europe can get involved in war between China and Taiwan.

The diplomatic relations between Europe and Taiwan are good, but not on the level where Europe would go to war.

The theater of military operations is so far from Europe that just getting European forces there is going to be a major operation on its own.

US maintains a carrier group in the area precisely because we have diplomatic and military commitment to Taiwan. Europe does not have either. To say that Europe would involve in any unpleasantness between China and Taiwan is simply... foolish.


Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.30 21:53:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Bane Necran on 30/07/2011 22:05:04
Originally by: baltec1
The military is payed for by the state, the state fund this with taxes, less taxes = less funding.

If it worked the way you think it does then the UK would still have a home fleet larger than 90% of other nations Navies.


The US military industrial complex is an entirely different entity than anything else on Earth, and what the associated corporations get from taxes is just a fraction of their income. It's also entirely possible some of the trillions of dollars provided to it were saved, and it can exist for any number of years without any income at all.

On top of that, one area which received alot of funding and attention is specifically to keep the military and government going while the country falls apart for whatever reason. To say they're not ready for an economic collapse is laughable. That would be one of the easier things to design contingency plans for compared to meteor impacts and the like.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.30 22:05:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 30/07/2011 22:09:33
Originally by: Bane Necran


The US military industrial complex is an entirely different entity than anything else on Earth, and what the associated corporations get from taxes is just a fraction of their income.


US Military Budget for 2010


Operations and maintenance $283.3 billion

Military Personnel $154.2 billion

Procurement $140.1 billion

Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.1 billion

Military Construction $23.9 billion

Family Housing $3.1 billion

Total Spending $685.1 billion

Clearly the US military has no need for all of that taxpayer revenueRolling Eyes


Also note that this does not cover everything, pentions, NASA military spending, nuke research ect ect are not included in the above.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.30 22:10:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Clearly the US military has no need for all of that taxpayer revenueRolling Eyes


Yeah, the poor little fellas. They're having trouble just making ends meet. You should all do your part and give them more money, citizens.

For Freedom!

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.30 22:19:00 - [48]
 

Adopt a drone today!

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.07.30 22:41:00 - [49]
 

You Yanks should really think hard about your military expenses. Or is it too late, hm?

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:05:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Hoya en Marland
You Yanks should really think hard about your military expenses. Or is it too late, hm?


you're just jelly that your tanks dont take 10 gallons of super-gas to start up.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:29:00 - [51]
 

While the debt is a huge number, compared to the US GDP it is not so insane.
I don't have an exact number but I figure it's about 90 % of their GDP now.
That's very high but not critical.
It is high enough to start making people a little nervous, especially when the US government starts to mess with their debts over 'politics'. An insanely dangerous game they are playing.
They are not too big to fail. Nothing really is. But if they ever do fail, they'll drag the entire world economy with them I expect.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:47:00 - [52]
 

The world economy would implode if the US economy did. too many nations depend on selling stuff to the US. Especially China. China would lose multiple factories alone just from Apple having no one to sell product to.

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.31 01:50:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
The world economy would implode if the US economy did. too many nations depend on selling stuff to the US. Especially China. China would lose multiple factories alone just from Apple having no one to sell product to.


that and all those chinese companies that make our flags.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.31 02:24:00 - [54]
 

Europe would be just fine, they already have cars that run on smug.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.07.31 06:24:00 - [55]
 

China and the United States will be at war soon enough, and not by proxy. America has bled itself out allowing the military industrial complex to blossom into the hideous monster it is today. Our industrial base is bankrupt and incapable of awakening like WW2 America as we have traded our conscience and sovereignty for slave labor that in turn allows for the slavery and poverty of Americans at large.

Our populous is cowed and incapable of resisting a military machine that has been training for decades with the sole intent of fighting America. For decades military infrastructure belonging to China has surrounded America on all sides. The Nafta super highway system directly links Chinese assets straight through the heart of our nation.

At this moment China has over 7m active military members and upwards of 50m reserves. We can get about 3m up to speed at best. When our satellites come burning from the sky and our infantile information infrastructure is crippled nothing will stand in the path that was set in motion decades ago.

We created the monster that will consume us, and we are deserving of our fate as a people and culture. China has been on top for 1800 of the last 2000 years, get used to it returning to the status quo.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.07.31 06:31:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
China and the United States will be at war soon enough, and not by proxy. America has bled itself out allowing the military industrial complex to blossom into the hideous monster it is today. Our industrial base is bankrupt and incapable of awakening like WW2 America as we have traded our conscience and sovereignty for slave labor that in turn allows for the slavery and poverty of Americans at large.

Our populous is cowed and incapable of resisting a military machine that has been training for decades with the sole intent of fighting America. For decades military infrastructure belonging to China has surrounded America on all sides. The Nafta super highway system directly links Chinese assets straight through the heart of our nation.

At this moment China has over 7m active military members and upwards of 50m reserves. We can get about 3m up to speed at best. When our satellites come burning from the sky and our infantile information infrastructure is crippled nothing will stand in the path that was set in motion decades ago.

We created the monster that will consume us, and we are deserving of our fate as a people and culture. China has been on top for 1800 of the last 2000 years, get used to it returning to the status quo.


All I really need to say is LOLLaughing.

First, what does china gain by going to war with the US?
NOTHING!
There is nothing of value in the US that is worth going up against a nuclear armed country.

Second, China has never in it's history expressed interest in taking over a country outside of Asia. Heck the last time they wanted to invade Japan they were under mongol rule.

Third, soooo... the military industrial complex is ruling.... so the military industrial complex cannot act militarily?

Typical hysteria, with a world view that was obsolete before the cold war was even over.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.07.31 06:40:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
China and the United States will be at war soon enough, and not by proxy. America has bled itself out allowing the military industrial complex to blossom into the hideous monster it is today. Our industrial base is bankrupt and incapable of awakening like WW2 America as we have traded our conscience and sovereignty for slave labor that in turn allows for the slavery and poverty of Americans at large.

Our populous is cowed and incapable of resisting a military machine that has been training for decades with the sole intent of fighting America. For decades military infrastructure belonging to China has surrounded America on all sides. The Nafta super highway system directly links Chinese assets straight through the heart of our nation.

At this moment China has over 7m active military members and upwards of 50m reserves. We can get about 3m up to speed at best. When our satellites come burning from the sky and our infantile information infrastructure is crippled nothing will stand in the path that was set in motion decades ago.

We created the monster that will consume us, and we are deserving of our fate as a people and culture. China has been on top for 1800 of the last 2000 years, get used to it returning to the status quo.


All I really need to say is LOLLaughing.

First, what does china gain by going to war with the US?
NOTHING!
There is nothing of value in the US that is worth going up against a nuclear armed country.

Second, China has never in it's history expressed interest in taking over a country outside of Asia. Heck the last time they wanted to invade Japan they were under mongol rule.

Third, soooo... the military industrial complex is ruling.... so the military industrial complex cannot act militarily?

Typical hysteria, with a world view that was obsolete before the cold war was even over.


China is desperate for resources, despite their territory they are incredibly resource poor and have a population that is exploding despite the one child policies. In the Chinese view America is a vast, empty, resource rich land that needs exploitation.

China has expressed marked interest in expanding into Africa, and due to no resistance on the part of western powers are moving lock step to dominate the continent in the short term and has plans to send more than 300m souls into Africa for resource exploitation and colonization.

The military industrial complex has allowed the core industrial base within America to rot as badly as the rest of American infrastructure. We produce next to nothing for ourselves and rely completely on free trade to get the materials we need and produce the items we need to wage war.

Call it hysteria all you want, it's a cold hard slice of unbiased reality.

Sgt Blade
Caldari
Save Yourself Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.31 07:09:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
stuff


currently in mainland China, can confirm that all Chinese citizens are ready to wage war against America but please don't tell anyone because the government may have me for leaking out important information...

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.31 07:48:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
China and the United States will be at war soon enough, and not by proxy. America has bled itself out allowing the military industrial complex to blossom into the hideous monster it is today. Our industrial base is bankrupt and incapable of awakening like WW2 America as we have traded our conscience and sovereignty for slave labor that in turn allows for the slavery and poverty of Americans at large.

Our populous is cowed and incapable of resisting a military machine that has been training for decades with the sole intent of fighting America. For decades military infrastructure belonging to China has surrounded America on all sides. The Nafta super highway system directly links Chinese assets straight through the heart of our nation.

At this moment China has over 7m active military members and upwards of 50m reserves. We can get about 3m up to speed at best. When our satellites come burning from the sky and our infantile information infrastructure is crippled nothing will stand in the path that was set in motion decades ago.

We created the monster that will consume us, and we are deserving of our fate as a people and culture. China has been on top for 1800 of the last 2000 years, get used to it returning to the status quo.

Did you know that Russia shares a border with China and Russian population is declining. Perfect candidate for invasion! All the land and resources you could possibly want, no need to fight US, no need to try to cross a Pacific Ocean.

Brisco County
The Shadow Plague
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.07.31 08:34:00 - [60]
 

Why would China want to go to war with us?

Real life isn't like Eve where you just reset your standings and open fire on the next biggest guy.


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only