open All Channels
seplocked Skill Discussions
blankseplocked Cross Training Options
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Rasnor Motsu
Posted - 2011.07.27 18:36:00 - [1]
 

My main is just over 55mil SP, a PVP combat toon with pure skills only in Amarr ships. I have allmost all subcap support skills very well trained for any race (shield,armor,drones,missiles etc..) my question being should I cross over into Minmatar or Caldari??

I know the high value of the toon being pure will decrease with cross training, but this is my main and I don't think I will sell any time soon.

Pros: Being able to fly more meaning easy adjust into any situation.

Cons: Wont be unique to one race and decreased value.

Any advice would be great. Smile


Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2011.07.27 19:21:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Rasnor Motsu
My main is just over 55mil SP, a PVP combat toon with pure skills only in Amarr ships. I have allmost all subcap support skills very well trained for any race (shield,armor,drones,missiles etc..) my question being should I cross over into Minmatar or Caldari??


For PvP? I'd say Minmatar. Even if that means no Nightmare.

Farsight Incursion
Posted - 2011.07.28 00:11:00 - [3]
 

How does this make your "toon" decrease in value?

Rasnor Motsu
Posted - 2011.07.28 12:58:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Exploited Engineer
Originally by: Rasnor Motsu
My main is just over 55mil SP, a PVP combat toon with pure skills only in Amarr ships. I have allmost all subcap support skills very well trained for any race (shield,armor,drones,missiles etc..) my question being should I cross over into Minmatar or Caldari??


For PvP? I'd say Minmatar. Even if that means no Nightmare.


Yeh im leaning towards this the most because of this reason

Originally by: Farsight Incursion
How does this make your "toon" decrease in value?


And well, medium to high skilled pure race toons are worth more since they are rare, and this will prob decrease value.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.28 16:19:00 - [5]
 

Well-thought-out cross training isn't a detractor in character value, contrary to popular belief. What kills value is when you crosstrain and fail to skill into the appropriate supports for both races. In terms of resale, cross training simply means a longer term investment. So unless you want to sell in the near future, there's no reason to avoid it.

Jak Silverheart
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.29 00:16:00 - [6]
 

I second Minmatar, I think you get more use out of it with their ships.

Merii Kha'sen
Amarr
Unity Exploration
Posted - 2011.07.29 04:37:00 - [7]
 

Also, if you train Minmatar, you can fly the Blood Raider ships.

Ryuce
My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:02:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Well-thought-out cross training isn't a detractor in character value, contrary to popular belief. What kills value is when you crosstrain and fail to skill into the appropriate supports for both races. In terms of resale, cross training simply means a longer term investment. So unless you want to sell in the near future, there's no reason to avoid it.

This. When cross training kills the overall price of the char, it's normally related to a lot of unfinished business because the char is all over the place. If you keep focus on whatever you are training, like suggested above, it can only be a plus due to the char offering the buyer more viable options.

The **** cross training chars are the one's with high sp, but a lot of 3's and 4' while being able to "fly" every ship in the game. Often players are buying alts, so they want something which is highly specialised in certain departments. If you have enough SP you can be specialised in several departments.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:45:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Rasnor Motsu
I know the high value of the toon being pure will decrease with cross training, but this is my main and I don't think I will sell any time soon.

If he is your main, why worry about resale? 55 million is about 3.5 years investment, if you leave EVE there is no point to sell it because space bucks are not worth the $20 transfer fee unless thats your way of buying a round as a going away present to all your in game friends.

And the value of a "PVP combat toon with pure skills only in Amarr ships" increases as you cross train, assuming your have all basic support skills to 5 that affect any ship. Think about it, you are already done with the major leg work for most of the trip and it doesn't matter if you have 3 other racial BS to 4 and all racial gun types to 3 up to BS just to get the flavor of where you want to go. You already have all engineering, electronics, both shield and armor tanks suppor skills done, navigation, all gun and missile support skills to 5...heck in about 6 more months you could probably max all racial cruisers to 5 and be flying every HAC/Recon/T3/BC/Command ship out there. In about 1.5 month, you could be flying a Vagabond because you already have the gun skills and HAC 5 from flying a Zealot. A single T3 ship are just a 1.5 months away with all sub system skill to 5 + the racial T3 skill that only affects thermodynamics. The only decrease in value is if you manage to fit 300 skills in all ranging around 2-3 with alot of lower pre-req 5s to unlock the higher skill, as there is no direction for the next owner to start from and they only have a large base pool to start.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.07.29 13:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Rasnor Motsu
Cons: Wont be unique to one race and decreased value.


My toon has 20m LESS sp than you but can fly all racial t2 frigates, cruisers, and all t1 battleships

and you think my toon is of less value than yours...

versatility is an asset, not a detriment

Jak Silverheart
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.29 22:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: Rasnor Motsu
Cons: Wont be unique to one race and decreased value.


My toon has 20m LESS sp than you but can fly all racial t2 frigates, cruisers, and all t1 battleships

and you think my toon is of less value than yours...

versatility is an asset, not a detriment


I think your toon is worthless, 35mil SP and able to fly almost everything in terms of ships, but not very good at anything. It's pretty dam hard to claim your specialized and are good at something skill wise with that few SP and have it spread out all over the place.

Yeah I personally avoid doing something like that, I'd rather do a few things and do them dam good than trying to do everything and doing a ****ty job at it.

Alicia Uberwald
Posted - 2011.08.02 10:56:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jak Silverheart
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: Rasnor Motsu
Cons: Wont be unique to one race and decreased value.


My toon has 20m LESS sp than you but can fly all racial t2 frigates, cruisers, and all t1 battleships

and you think my toon is of less value than yours...

versatility is an asset, not a detriment


I think your toon is worthless, 35mil SP and able to fly almost everything in terms of ships, but not very good at anything. It's pretty dam hard to claim your specialized and are good at something skill wise with that few SP and have it spread out all over the place.

Yeah I personally avoid doing something like that, I'd rather do a few things and do them dam good than trying to do everything and doing a ****ty job at it.


I'd say cross train, I mean who cares about toon value if you're not even considering selling it.

And Jak, keep being pure, I'm sure your ennemies will love to know that you're stuck on a specific race.
IMO, cross train means more tactical choices, less "SHIIT i can't get in any fracking ship arround !" and how can you say Skippermonkey can't do it right with every T2 frigates or Cruisers ?

I mean, you think you're gonna **** him because you're so pure with your, let's say, rocket specialization 5 ?
Cross training from gallente to minmattar is something I don't regret.
I started Amarr recently, that zealot kept looking at me for too long, HAC 5 is just too good.

Rasnor Motsu
Posted - 2011.08.02 22:07:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Rasnor Motsu on 02/08/2011 22:14:42
Interesting points.

I think im at the end of Amarr and I need to cross train, quite a few times iv found myself looking at minnys fast ships and wanting to fly them...

And maybe with all the new ship balancing CCP have promised a character with 2 races in my position will make my toon better, with more options against the new favored ships.

Originally by: Jak Silverheart

Yeah I personally avoid doing something like that, I'd rather do a few things and do them dam good than trying to do everything and doing a ****ty job at it.
Thats what I used to think too.

So yh I will be crossing into minny and maxing it out too! Cool

Teya Ihara
Posted - 2011.08.04 19:47:00 - [14]
 

I find the anti-cross training doctrine from some players amusing. For a main character it makes little real difference. In the realm of the Character Bazaar someone is going to be looking for a specialized character which has specific skills they need their alt to have, be that perfect hulk, perfect scanning, or Amarr carrier 5.

Im at 31M SP, and I can fly every Amaar subcap except marauders/blackops(BS5 is in my plan but a couple months away since I find my current lvl 4 setup adequate for now). Along the way I *needed* certain other skills, both combat and not, that took time away from being a 100% amarr combat SP character. These skills included drake and hurricane pre-reqs (after you get BC5 these are extremely attractive), AC skills (AC/bleeder punisher skills + high gunnery translate quickly into medium projectile tech 2), and even a stop for Minnie Frig 5 to get a Sabre, as a long time dictor pilot who got tired of the heretic and flycatcher. I'm now back into "specialized" mode, training legion subs to 5, and then probably finishing off some support 5's that have been neglected(I'm looking at you armor comps and/or gunnery support 4's).

For a main character I believe this is all normal. FOTM changes, tastes change, sometimes you decide you want your main to have RP agent skills, or you want to have scanning skills on your main. In addition some skills make cross training very exciting (BC5, Recon 5, HAC 5, Command ship skills) because for a mid term cruiser 5 or similar train you can get access to a lot of amazing cross race ships. Even with those skills to 4 (recon 5 is kinda a necessity, as would be logi 5) its extremely tempting to just have access to another race's T2 cruiser/BC lineup. IMO if your support skills are decent, cross training a main character is just a personal decision knowing you may be 5% less effective here and there, but want access to other ships that have different strengths and weaknesses.

Cunane Jeran
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.07 02:15:00 - [15]
 

If your willing to consider it, Gallente

Ship skills, Hybrid skills, job done.

Or hell go Minmatar with the Gallente ship skills to open up the Blood Raider, Angel AND Serpentis ships.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.07 09:44:00 - [16]
 

I beg to differ on the cross-training reducing character value.

In the case of Minmatar and Amarr it can do EXACTLY that. Role-players tend to be one of those races and they WILL pay a premium for characters with "pure" racial skills. I was offered 2 bill over the going rate for a character precisely because of that.

Personally I think that's dumb but I tend to view role-players as a seperate species anyway Very Happy

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.07 10:52:00 - [17]
 

Cross-training only ever increases the value of a character.

Versatility is king — it gives you more options to deal with things and makes you more unpredictable and harder to deal with.

Hyperspecialisation looks good on paper, but hinges on the assumption that you'll get a lot of use out of those higher-rank lvl Vs… and you won't unless you go for width, which suddenly means your specialisation gives very marginal and rather questionable benefits.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.07 11:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Cross-training only ever increases the value of a character.

Versatility is king — it gives you more options to deal with things and makes you more unpredictable and harder to deal with.

Hyperspecialisation looks good on paper, but hinges on the assumption that you'll get a lot of use out of those higher-rank lvl Vs… and you won't unless you go for width, which suddenly means your specialisation gives very marginal and rather questionable benefits.


Oh I agree - I'm just pointing out that there are specific circumstances where you WILL get more for a character. As its selling to role-players the name is as important as the "purity" Smile

Othran on the other hand is about 3 months from maxing out all T1/T2 sub-battleship skills (combat ships). The strange thing is that the more flexibility you have, the more you use the ships you know. Gets you nerf-proof I suppose.

Because Of Door
Posted - 2011.08.07 17:21:00 - [19]
 

A year or so ago I sold a pure Amarr toon of 45m SP for far more than I expected to get. It had all Ship skills up to BS at 5, and could fly Marauders, HICs etc (also at 5)... Weapon specs were at 4, and all fitting skills at 5 too. I have no idea if the buyer was a role-player or not, but I had skilled the character for eventual sale and used as a PVE alt so did not cross-train at all.

In another case I had a 50m pure-Gallente that I also tried to sell... Similarly skilled as above and starting to train capital skills. I ended up withdrawing the character from sale as the offers I had were stupidly low, so I am cross-training Minmatar and using it to PVP in at the moment... Will probably keep the character and transfer it to my main account once carriers are maxed.

The point I am trying to make is that it isn't just the skill distribution that gives value, it's also the race. In my case Amarr was far more desirable than a similarly skilled Gallente character, although I would expect this to change if Hybrids get a buff and drones stop acting like itinerant school-children...

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.07 17:36:00 - [20]
 

Its down to role-players. The minnie/amarr roleplay has been around since 2003 and has survived most of the slings and arrows of the years Wink Fairly easy to keep a slaver/anti-slaver roleplay scenario going - well up to a point.

You don't see that with Gallente/Caldari.

As I said before role-players are a different species Razz


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only