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blankseplocked So I had to quit my corp today...
 
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Teodin Val
Posted - 2011.07.27 14:02:00 - [1]
 

I am a new player to eve, and my character is just over three months old and I am about to hit 5 mil sp. In the 13-14 weeks I have played, the corp I was in has been decc'ed 6-7 weeks. The corp that I was in had an average age of 3-4 months, and the average age of the corps that were decc'ing us was 2-5 years.

After talking to a few of the corps that wardec'ed us they said the reason was, that they were looking for a fight. I thought to myself why not join a militia, go to lo/nul sec. Then I realized what they were truly after, they wanted easy prey.

So I had to quit my corp today. The only option that CCP leaves new players to the game to allow them to gain the experience/skill points to actually be able to compete with the players that have a couple years on them. Some would argue that the taxes I'll pay will be astronomical, yet I can make 20+ mil soloing a lvl 4 mission, and pay 2-3 mil in taxes. I cannot do that hiding in a station.

This wardec option is a very interesting aspect to the game, and I like it. However it appears to me it is getting abused. I am not sure what can be done to fix this what appears to be broken mechanic, having cd's on wardecs, maybe if a corp has been decc'ed they can not be decc'ed again for a month?? Having corporation lvls, making it to expensive for a couple 5 year players bully 20 3-4 month players.

I like this game and would like to see it thrive, for new players as well as old. Some will reply to this forum by saying go play wow. Some will say that this is a whine. It does matter, pvp is now on my terms and not yours. And to the corp m8's I left ciao, sorry it had to come to this but it appears that CCP does not want new players to see the benefits of being in a corporation...

Discuss

Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
Posted - 2011.07.27 14:17:00 - [2]
 

The most used PvP ship class is probably the battlecruiser, which any character with 5 mil SP not focused into industry should be able to use.

Being able to evade the 11% NPC-corp tax by creating your own corporation isn't and shouldn't be risk free. If you want to be immune to war-decs while running your missions, just take the 11% tax and stop complaining.

Every action has a reaction.

Teodin Val
Posted - 2011.07.27 14:53:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Comy 1
The most used PvP ship class is probably the battlecruiser, which any character with 5 mil SP not focused into industry should be able to use.

Being able to evade the 11% NPC-corp tax by creating your own corporation isn't and shouldn't be risk free. If you want to be immune to war-decs while running your missions, just take the 11% tax and stop complaining.

Every action has a reaction.


Did you read the topic??

I did take the 11% tax, and I am not complaining, I am actually pointing out a flawed game mechanic on my own time. Because I like the game. Doing the math at least 50% of my paid game time has been in a wardec; non-consentual pvp. I can fly a BC, against the T2 ships I'll have to go against. And there are game exploits that I could use, I have done some research, to avoid the wardecs. Really why feed this, to respond to an exploit with an exploit seems futile. But my whole point of posting this was have a community try to help with the regulation of what appears to me a flawed game mechanic, that is hi-sec pvp.


Ne cede malis.


Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
Posted - 2011.07.27 14:57:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Teodin Val
Originally by: Comy 1
The most used PvP ship class is probably the battlecruiser, which any character with 5 mil SP not focused into industry should be able to use.

Being able to evade the 11% NPC-corp tax by creating your own corporation isn't and shouldn't be risk free. If you want to be immune to war-decs while running your missions, just take the 11% tax and stop complaining.

Every action has a reaction.


Did you read the topic??

I did take the 11% tax, and I am not complaining, I am actually pointing out a flawed game mechanic on my own time. Because I like the game. Doing the math at least 50% of my paid game time has been in a wardec; non-consentual pvp. I can fly a BC, against the T2 ships I'll have to go against. And there are game exploits that I could use, I have done some research, to avoid the wardecs. Really why feed this, to respond to an exploit with an exploit seems futile. But my whole point of posting this was have a community try to help with the regulation of what appears to me a flawed game mechanic, that is hi-sec pvp.


Ne cede malis.




Actually you are the one not reading. Step out of your bubble.

I will not write any long explanations since you managed to ignore my 5 or so line post, but if you think that you need exploits to kill people because they are using T2 ships you are totally wrong.

What you need to succeed is combat experience, and you will never get that by hiding. The mechanics are not broken, they are intended. If you want to taste the benefits you have to live with the consequenses.

Once again (I will bold the important part this time):

Fight back or take the 11% tax and stop complaining.

Jun'tarious
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:07:00 - [5]
 

Join a larger and more experienced corp. They will offer so much more then a young corp beyond basic security.

Sorry to say this but it was your old corp leaders who failed you. Not CCP, not war dec mechanics, and certainly not those fail-pvpers whom you faced.

Teodin Val
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:14:00 - [6]
 

@Comy1

Sorry my post was so long winded, these benefits, I guess you mean the low taxes. As I pointed out in my original post not really a benefit, having to halt all non pvp activites while at war is considerably more of loss. The benefits I regret losing are the friends I made in the corp I left. And for the only reasons that I could find when I asked, well we wanted a fight.

Is there no other game mechanics for pvp in this game, or wait there are and when I want combat experience I will go do those...

HopeAndFear
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:17:00 - [7]
 

Of course the old bully the young. And the big bully the small. Just like real life. Its only a 'exploit' (in the sense of breaking the EULA) if it becomes persistent harassment, and even that depends on the circumstances.

Just keep in mind that it doesn't take a vet to kill a vet, get enough noobs together and you will win by sheer numbers (just ask any eve-uni blob participant). Not to say that it doesn't help to have a few vets on your side, but it isn't mandatory.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:18:00 - [8]
 

All the fixes you suggest would make Eve much more carebear and it has been stated time and time again by the developers that Eve is ment to be a cold and harsh world. Most players like it this way, some others cope with it while they sit in highsec doing missions, others feel the need to change this. The latter ones are luckily still in the minority.

There is plenty you can do against a wardec and T1 battlecruisers are usually much more cost effective than T2 ships. But it will require a different mindset.

Sindjin Hawke
RaVeN Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:31:00 - [9]
 

I feel your pain...

My first Corp outside of the Academy was a Carebear Corp in hi-sec. They are a great bunch of people and I spent time mining my butt off, etc...

Then we were War Dec'd by one of these cowardly corps who like to pick easy targets in Hi-Sec. I have no respect for them honestly. BUT...I must say, that war dec helped me learn a new aspect of EVE that I wasn't getting and for that I am grateful. To make a long story short, because of that short War Dec experience I decided to leave that Corp for another one in Null Sec. I am really enjoying the game so much more. I enjoy the PvP aspect a lot (even though my killboard stats suck...but I don't care). I am learning SO much more than I would have had I stayed in HiSec.

I agree with you to a point and understand your frustration. IMHO, that Carebear war dec'ing in Hi-Sec is cowardly. Those Corps need to come on down to Null Sec and get some real PvP action. However, I think that regulating the War Dec mechanic would disrupt the sandbox. I like the free flow of this game..it's what makes Eve what it is. Instead, Carebear Corps in Hi Sec need to form strong alliances so they can come together under War Conditions and stop being such easy targets for those cowards.

Be Well

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:36:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Comy 1

I did take the 11% tax, and I am not complaining, I am actually pointing out a flawed game mechanic on my own time.

what is exactly flawed game mechanic? Older player wardeccing younger players? Dont think its flawed, in every game you have younger player facing more experienced people. For all those, who dont like that, are NPC corporations there.

Originally by: Comy 1
I can fly a BC, against the T2 ships I'll have to go against.

a battlecruiser in hands of a good pilot is a deadly tool, even T2 pilots have to watch out.

Originally by: Comy 1
And there are game exploits that I could use, I have done some research, to avoid the wardecs. Really why feed this, to respond to an exploit with an exploit seems futile.

you will get banned for exploiting flawed mechanics.
Much more likely you are talking about legal mechanics you dont like and call them exploits for emphasizing your negative attitude.

Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Concentrated Evil
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:46:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Teodin Val
at least 50% of my paid game time has been in a wardec; non-consentual pvp.

You consent to pvp the moment you click the Undock button. If you're a trader you don't even need to do that. Joining an NPC corp is no way around this. You will learn this the moment your tengu gets suicided.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:49:00 - [12]
 

You consent to PvP every time you undock.

There is a huge difference between "****ty" and "exploit". War decing nub corps is the former, not the latter.

You look at it like its black and white, that you MUST either pay 11% tax OR subject yourself to war dec's. The thing is, no one is making you run missions. You can join your NPC corp and do something besides collect bounty/do missions. EvE is huge, there are plenty of ways to make cash.

Ronan Connor
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:52:00 - [13]
 

What most advanced player underestimate is, that even a t1 bc is hell of alot money to many players. They cant afford to loose even just 10 misk in a wardec. At my start I was afraid loosing my implants, as I was eager to learn more quick (besides those implants did cost alot).

As for the carebearish hints...

Last QEN states that 80% of the player live in high sec. Eve might have been started and was designed to be a harsh place. But the player base has changed alot since. CCP has enough to do to mix pvp like null with high sec (by wardecs i.e.). One can be lucky that they dont need to get rid totally of pvp as the majority of their paying customers does not pvp as you might like it. The expansion of Eve came at a price. Its like with music charts, youre not getting in high ranks with a very specialized music.

@ Teodin Val
Go and get a nice corp. Good corps wont force you to do pvp + give you the advice to leave in case of a wardec and rejoin afterwards. Leave a basic alt behind for informations etc.

Ehranavaar
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.27 16:20:00 - [14]
 

one good way to cut down on the nuisance war decs is to form an alliance with your one corp. that bumps the cost for a war dec to 50 million isk from 2 million isk. surprising how much that cuts down the number of decs you receive.

the other thing is a strict no undocking during war order for your corp. it's a pain but if you deprive the fail pvp types of their easy kills they move on quickly.

Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
Posted - 2011.07.27 16:33:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ronan Connor
Last QEN states that 80% of the player live in high sec. Eve might have been started and was designed to be a harsh place. But the player base has changed alot since. CCP has enough to do to mix pvp like null with high sec (by wardecs i.e.). One can be lucky that they dont need to get rid totally of pvp as the majority of their paying customers does not pvp as you might like it. The expansion of Eve came at a price. Its like with music charts, youre not getting in high ranks with a very specialized music.


That 80% number is REALLY missleading though. A huge part of the people "living in high sec" are people that constantly roam into 0.0 space, low sec or similar but don't hold any sov themselves. And lets not talk about the number of logistics, trading and just pure mission alts of people living in non high sec aswell.

Teodin Val
Posted - 2011.07.27 16:48:00 - [16]
 

@Sindjin That's what I am talking about. Picking on new players is not the only access to pvp just the safest. I was two weeks old my first week old, a T2 hob would've took me out.

@Robert Caldara exploited: 1: to make productive use of.2: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage. Ya pretty sure I used that word correctly. I am just asking all the old players that are to lazy to use the other pvp aspects of the game to remember that new players may want a fighting chance.

@Cipher I am training towards those things, but constant war dictates combat training, thus i run missions its my strong point. But if eve truly gives you the freedom of doing what you want(sandbox), why am I forced into so much combat training because other players find it easier to wardec, for no good reason.

It is my hopes that this post will inspire an alternative to the current situation, not obliterate it. I think wardec's are a very interesting part of the game. But 50% of my game time being at war is to intense, considering I only just started playing the game. I also like being in a corporation, however the current wardec game mechanic is not allowing me to do this.


Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.27 16:55:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Drykor on 27/07/2011 16:56:00
Any of your so-called fixes would only lead to exploiting too. Can't wardec after having been wardecced? Sure, I'll wardec myself with an alt corp. Make prices exorbinant for higher 'level' players? Ok, so now a low-SP griefing/loot stealing/can swapping corporation is practically invulnerable.

Just try to deal with Eve the way it is. Organize yourself, hire mercs, there are a dozen of ways you can do something about this, complaining on the forum isn't one of them.

Ryuce
My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:04:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Ryuce on 27/07/2011 17:04:34
Originally by: Teodin Val
@Cipher I am training towards those things, but constant war dictates combat training, thus i run missions its my strong point. But if eve truly gives you the freedom of doing what you want(sandbox), why am I forced into so much combat training because other players find it easier to wardec, for no good reason.

As mentioned by other posters you have a choice. By joining a corp which is possible to war dec, you chose to force the combat training upon yourself.

That is the sandbox.

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:07:00 - [19]
 

Couple of quick points. I'm sure some of this has been pointed out already so sorry if it is a repeat. I am also a relatively new player (just under 5mil SP).

1. If you want to be risk free from wardec's stay in an NPC corp. That is what they are there for. Especially for new players there really isn't much of anything you cannot do via an NPC corp.
2. You don't have to be in a corp with your friends to stay friends. I have plenty of EVE friends who have come and gone from the Corp I am in. We have a public channel that we hang out on all the time. I still run with them sometimes too.

Early on I joined a corp. It was part of a gaming community that I have been a part of for years with other games. They made it clear that they are a PVP corp. Within the first week of joining (I was 3 weeks into the game at the time) we got wardec'd. Scared I pretty much didnt play that week.

Since then we have been in several other wars, although not as bad as you. A couple thing I have noticed from these.

First, most wars were utterly boring. We rarely ran into anyone.
Second, the wars in no way stopped my ability to play the game. These days I don't even notice a wardec. Find an out of the way spot to mission etc. Stay on dscan. Keep local up. Make some safe's. Fly smart and its no big deal.

Honestly, doing PVE during a wardec in high sec is still safer than PVE activities in our corp wormhole.

So while I can understand your frustration, a wardec does not have to stop you from playing. And if it is a problem, join an NPC corp and make a channel for your friends to hang out in.

There are certainly other options, Alliance, make friends with a PVP corp willing to help defend you etc,

Teodin Val
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:16:00 - [20]
 

@Drycor That is why I came to the forums, not to have my ideas shot down, but to have the older more experienced players, that know more about this game, help me out. I am a new player to eve, and this game mechanic has to much potential for exploitation. All the corps that have wardecced us may even be all the same players just different corps. Sure maybe it sounds to you like i am complaining but, really am I, tonight i will be safely in my npc corp and will only pvp when I want to take the chance. I'll try to stay away from buying a Tengu, heh. But I ask where is the freedom of play, so advertised, by said sandbox community.

Btw, my cooldown idea was to limit the amount a corp can be wardecced and should not hinder their ability to wardec. Ie: if a corporation gets wardecced they can not be wardecced again for said amount of time. So if wardeccing is your thing sure but when all the hi sec corps are on cd, try your hand at some of the alternative pvp aspects of the game, take a risk. Don't be lazy.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:37:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Drykor on 27/07/2011 17:37:56
Originally by: Teodin Val
@Drycor That is why I came to the forums, not to have my ideas shot down, but to have the older more experienced players, that know more about this game, help me out. I am a new player to eve, and this game mechanic has to much potential for exploitation. All the corps that have wardecced us may even be all the same players just different corps. Sure maybe it sounds to you like i am complaining but, really am I, tonight i will be safely in my npc corp and will only pvp when I want to take the chance. I'll try to stay away from buying a Tengu, heh. But I ask where is the freedom of play, so advertised, by said sandbox community.

Btw, my cooldown idea was to limit the amount a corp can be wardecced and should not hinder their ability to wardec. Ie: if a corporation gets wardecced they can not be wardecced again for said amount of time. So if wardeccing is your thing sure but when all the hi sec corps are on cd, try your hand at some of the alternative pvp aspects of the game, take a risk. Don't be lazy.



Well I already told you, this would only lead to people creating alt corporations to wardec their main corporation so they get a cooldown.
Tbh the best carebear advice in here that has been given is joining a corp within an alliance as a 50M wardec fee is a lot more than 2M. But of course I'd rather recommend doing something about it, taking some pvp classes from agony unleashed with some interested people in your corp and having some fun shooting these guys. What do you have to lose other than some isk? Even if you get beaten you'll still have the pvp experience later.

Sindjin Hawke
RaVeN Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:39:00 - [22]
 

Teodin,

Again, I do agree to a point. The Corp that war dec'd my old carebear corp played those Corp hopping games. They come in, attack you, then they leave their Main Corp for a non war decking corp to be safe from attack. It really was quite annoying and I have to say, again, most cowardly. But Whatever... I still think they should have the freedom to do that. Over and Over if that is what they want out of the game. As for the CareBear Corp that gets war dec'd all the time... join a CareBear Alliance...it will only be better in the long run anyway. This is Space. It's full of Pirates and Hi Sec Industrialists still need to protect themselves.

My suggestion to you... learn to use D-Scan. A Lot.
I still run Plexes in our 0.0 area when Non-Blues are in system. I just keep checking D-scan and I stay aligned to my safe spot. If they get close, I warp off. If I get ganked oh well. I get ganked. It's all part of the game.

Just my 2 ISK


Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.07.27 18:16:00 - [23]
 

If you think BC are to expensive fly smaller ships, blackbirds, tacklers.. etc. and surely the corp will help out its members with some reimbursement if not.. a rather ****ty corp to begin with.

My first war i took part in (a war we didnt want but had one member in the corp shoot his mouth off a lot).. i said, bleep it. ill log for a week.. i practically did, turned out that war was a fail the other guys didnt show.. but game me a little curage that perhaps war isnt so bad.

Then a few weeks later.. decced again... i said allright.. lets do this, bought some blackbirds and 2 hurricanes. We had wartargets outside of the station and i hear some yahoo on teamspeak go "oh come on!! lets undock and kill em" and realised.. it was me :) Anyway long story short, i got some kills, got a hurricane blown up (and realised.. you know.. i dont care about the loss). Corp reimbursed most of the hurricane and even gave me a scorpion since i had ewar skills.

So.. just get some cheap ships, hell fly a rifter for tackle. That wont break the bank, try it out. You might find it is more fun to actually do some pvp now and then instead of just run missions and buy shiner mission ships.

If not. well you tried. :) Bottom line; try it, dont have to spend tons of cash on shiny t3s or faction battleships to enjoy pvp. the humble rifter is good enough.,. or the blackbird. both are dirt cheap after insurance so even if your corp is a moneysucking egotistical piece of.. bleep.. it wont break the bank. But surely you pay corp taxes for some reason? and if you dont have any corp taxes. well then the money you saved should be enough for a few cheap throwaway ships.

Teodin Val
Posted - 2011.07.27 18:33:00 - [24]
 

Well I am going to log for a bit but just wanted to say a couple things:

Firstly thank you all who posted, especially those who offered solutions. It's nice to see that its not all about "hey there's the new guy lets get em". I only started this post to point out that there is a problem, maybe it's just because I have a fresh perspective. And have found this constant barrage of wardecs a little displeasing to say the least.

And secondly, I am not against wardecs at all, and really think its a wicked option to the game. Just without any kind of regulation it could be abused and leave some who are not familiar with the eve universe(new players) with a bad taste in their mouths. Granted there are ways around the wardecs, npc corps, alt corps, and avoidance. But these options, well at least to me, take away from the flavor of the game.

Thanks again all

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.27 18:35:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Teodin Val
I am a new player to eve, and my character is just over three months old and I am about to hit 5 mil sp. In the 13-14 weeks I have played, the corp I was in has been decc'ed 6-7 weeks. The corp that I was in had an average age of 3-4 months, and the average age of the corps that were decc'ing us was 2-5 years.

After talking to a few of the corps that wardec'ed us they said the reason was, that they were looking for a fight. I thought to myself why not join a militia, go to lo/nul sec. Then I realized what they were truly after, they wanted easy prey.

So I had to quit my corp today. The only option that CCP leaves new players to the game to allow them to gain the experience/skill points to actually be able to compete with the players that have a couple years on them. Some would argue that the taxes I'll pay will be astronomical, yet I can make 20+ mil soloing a lvl 4 mission, and pay 2-3 mil in taxes. I cannot do that hiding in a station.

This wardec option is a very interesting aspect to the game, and I like it. However it appears to me it is getting abused. I am not sure what can be done to fix this what appears to be broken mechanic, having cd's on wardecs, maybe if a corp has been decc'ed they can not be decc'ed again for a month?? Having corporation lvls, making it to expensive for a couple 5 year players bully 20 3-4 month players.

I like this game and would like to see it thrive, for new players as well as old. Some will reply to this forum by saying go play wow. Some will say that this is a whine. It does matter, pvp is now on my terms and not yours. And to the corp m8's I left ciao, sorry it had to come to this but it appears that CCP does not want new players to see the benefits of being in a corporation...

Discuss


You joined a crappy corp that was unable to protect and organise its members. That's the problem here.

YuuKnow
Posted - 2011.07.28 00:29:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Drykor
Just try to deal with Eve the way it is. Organize yourself, hire mercs, there are a dozen of ways you can do something about this, complaining on the forum isn't one of them.


I agree with Drykor. Eve's harshness is meant to force players to interact in political ways to overcome challenges. Advertising on the forums for help, hiring mercenaries which could be sympathetic to your cause, negoiating with other hi-sec corps, etc. Think about it as a trial of your leaderships resourcefullness, persistence, political/corporate/tatical savy.

EvEa Deva
Posted - 2011.07.28 01:24:00 - [27]
 

Join an Alliance

Franny
Mentis Seorsum
Posted - 2011.07.28 03:37:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Franny on 28/07/2011 03:37:33
Originally by: Teodin Val
stuffs

1/10
you are in a corp with these
corp name = Cold Steel Warriors [FU UP]
CEO name = Gankus Khan

Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.28 08:23:00 - [29]
 

what does this have to do with this forum?

Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.07.28 14:25:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Teodin Val
I am training towards those things, but constant war dictates combat training, thus i run missions its my strong point. But if eve truly gives you the freedom of doing what you want(sandbox), why am I forced into so much combat training because other players find it easier to wardec, for no good reason.


Unfortunately for you, you're not alone in the sandbox. Other players are free to do what they want, too. This includes wanting to blow you to bits.

There's zero reason why a corp of 20 or so players can't organise a fleet to deal with a wardec from 5 guys, except their own fail.


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