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Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.27 04:26:00 - [1]
 

Hello everyone,

im sure you all know a bunch of 3rd party projects, be it libraries or complete applications, that are used to enhance your eve experience.

for most people it seems to be hard to find what projects exist, or sometimes even to find the specific webpage of a project.

I've seen myself a few times looking at a project that existed for a few years and saying 'if i had only known...'

well, today im launching the beta of http://3rdpartyeve.net, a website dedicated to be a catalogue for users to find and project owners to list their projects.

At the moment the main focus is on getting as many projects as possible on board (so if you have an application, a library, a website, or something else that might fit, http://3rdpartyeve.net/add/Project.

The site itself is still under development, but atm it would be nice to see a few more projects on it.


regards,
Peter Powers

Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:05:00 - [2]
 

I question if we need another site for this with the sticky on this forum, http://wiki.eve-id.net/Main_Page, and the Eve wiki pages where everyone can be listed. I know many of the applications also maintain threads in the other forums for their interest area as well. I still added the info for Yapeal to your site so you at least have a little more data to work with though Wink

Callean Drevus
Caldari
Icosahedron Crafts and Shipping
Silent Infinity
Posted - 2011.07.27 12:22:00 - [3]
 

I support this initiative. Had started to gather a list of all these tools myself, which might be useful in determining what projects to put on your website.

The list page really needs reworking though! Every project is taking a huge amount of space, even if it isn't required. The details button by itself takes up about 30% of all available space :P

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:58:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Dragonaire
I question if we need another site for this with the sticky on this forum, http://wiki.eve-id.net/Main_Page, and the Eve wiki pages where everyone can be listed. I know many of the applications also maintain threads in the other forums for their interest area as well. I still added the info for Yapeal to your site so you at least have a little more data to work with though Wink

both, the wiki on eve-id and the forum are focused on 3rd party development tools, not on applications - while 3rdpartyeve currently has mostly libraries listed, the main goal is to get all the nice applications listed that are arround.
threads in other forums and evelopedia pages dont really add much to making applications findable.

Bozenski
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:18:00 - [5]
 

I would love for this to envolve into something bigger, perhaps a place to host some of the applications - so it's a one stop shop for eve online 3rd party tools. :)

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.27 20:10:00 - [6]
 

thats basically the plan in long term

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.07.27 22:19:00 - [7]
 

Have you read the Google Analytics ToS? If you do, you will find a paragraph demanding that you mention on your site that you use Google Analytics to track users. Confused

And that (tracking users), my friend, is a no-go for me.

Callean Drevus
Caldari
Icosahedron Crafts and Shipping
Silent Infinity
Posted - 2011.07.27 23:12:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Have you read the Google Analytics ToS? If you do, you will find a paragraph demanding that you mention on your site that you use Google Analytics to track users. Confused

And that (tracking users), my friend, is a no-go for me.


You can't really be serious? There's nothing wrong with google analytics, it helps make the site better if used properly, it just tracks the number of users if used in it's least useful employment.

If there were any google adsense ads it would be different.

What specifically bothers you about analytics?

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.27 23:39:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Johnathan Roark on 27/07/2011 23:40:21
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Have you read the Google Analytics ToS? If you do, you will find a paragraph demanding that you mention on your site that you use Google Analytics to track users. Confused

And that (tracking users), my friend, is a no-go for me.



How did you manage to post here then? CCP uses Google analytics. It doesn't give out any identifying info and its not much more that couldn't be gotten from analyzing server logs. The additional info is mostly browser and screen info used to help optimizing websites.

I'll add my current project soon. Only concern is updating the info once its added.

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.28 04:14:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Have you read the Google Analytics ToS? If you do, you will find a paragraph demanding that you mention on your site that you use Google Analytics to track users. Confused


Well, since it seems it was to hard to find the link to the privacy policies, i have placed that one on a more prominent place now.

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
And that (tracking users), my friend, is a no-go for me.

there is tracking users, and there is tracking users.
The ToS you mentioned clearly state that sites like 3rdpartyeve.net are not allowed to save person-related data which allows to identify a specific users behaviour.

Typical information that analytics track:
- How many users do visit the site
- Where are they comming from (geographic)
- Where are they comming from (referer / link source)
- What part of the website is the one they spend most time with?
- What Browsers are they using, and what features do they have enabled

I dont see anything bad about collecting that sort of data, i can not do something evil with it.
What i can do is for example see that you where kinda right, obviously no one had found the privacy link, since it was never clicked. Allowing me to make the decision to give it a more prominent place on the page.

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.28 04:17:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Roark
I'll add my current project soon. Only concern is updating the info once its added.


Editor for the projects is on the list, however i want to get a feeling on how many projects this will be first.

If you add an rss feed to your project description, your news or your blog will be fetched regulary and added in your projects news aswell as on the homepage. So a good idea is to dont be too version specific in the description and have new features and such in the news,

but again, there will definately be an editor.

Thart
U.K.R.A.I.N.E
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2011.07.28 06:10:00 - [12]
 

This catalog is a good idea.

But visual style is terrible. Text is non-readable. Page elements are too close to each other.

Sable Blitzmann
Minmatar
Massively Dynamic
Posted - 2011.07.28 08:06:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Thart
This catalog is a good idea.

But visual style is terrible. Text is non-readable. Page elements are too close to each other.


This, tho it's not really your fault if you don't have a knack for design. Try adding some padding, margins, and line-height to the CSS and it will look much better. Right now, I can't read it without getting a headache.

Other than that, sounds like a good project to me. =)

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.07.28 09:14:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Callean Drevus

You can't really be serious? There's nothing wrong with google analytics, it helps make the site better if used properly, it just tracks the number of users if used in it's least useful employment.



Why do you care about the number of users?

Quote:
What specifically bothers you about analytics?


I am a strong proponent of privacy. Any kind of spying on people (and if it's only counting IP addresses) is evil.

Quote:

How did you manage to post here then? CCP uses Google analytics.



Because Google Analytics is of course blocked my be, therefore I am notified for any site that's using it.

Quote:

It doesn't give out any identifying info and its not much more that couldn't be gotten from analyzing server logs. The additional info is mostly browser and screen info used to help optimizing websites.



Than analyse your server logs, but don't share that information with a 3rd party.

I've seen way too many "optimized web sites in my life. Keep them simple and keep them clean, that's how you optimize. It just needs a brain to realize that, no fancy "analyze" necessary.

Bosence
Anuran Origin
Posted - 2011.07.28 10:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: Callean Drevus

You can't really be serious? There's nothing wrong with google analytics, it helps make the site better if used properly, it just tracks the number of users if used in it's least useful employment.



Why do you care about the number of users?

Quote:
What specifically bothers you about analytics?


I am a strong proponent of privacy. Any kind of spying on people (and if it's only counting IP addresses) is evil.

Quote:

How did you manage to post here then? CCP uses Google analytics.



Because Google Analytics is of course blocked my be, therefore I am notified for any site that's using it.

Quote:

It doesn't give out any identifying info and its not much more that couldn't be gotten from analyzing server logs. The additional info is mostly browser and screen info used to help optimizing websites.



Than analyse your server logs, but don't share that information with a 3rd party.

I've seen way too many "optimized web sites in my life. Keep them simple and keep them clean, that's how you optimize. It just needs a brain to realize that, no fancy "analyze" necessary.


I'd recommend you to use the https://www.torproject.org/ browser, but may I just add logging the amount of IP addresses is not going to infringe your credit card or the like - majority of the time, IP addresses are on a 24 hour lease (depending on your DHCP/modem configuration).

As to why he should care about the numbers, it's simple. If you're updating the site frequently, and there is a drop in the amount of viewers for a while, you can usually take that as a good hint that one of the updates was not well recieved - it's much better than forcing a poll on to the user base everytime the site is update, for example.

EveBB
Caldari
EVESpace Hosting
Posted - 2011.07.28 10:43:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: EveBB on 28/07/2011 10:43:40

Great idea. I have added the EveBB (EVE Bulletin Board) project to the list.

-EveBB-

Johnny May
Posted - 2011.07.28 11:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween

Why do you care about the number of users?


maybe people running a side want to know if its used, and therefor worth the work comming with it?

Originally by: Hel O'Ween

I am a strong proponent of privacy. Any kind of spying on people (and if it's only counting IP addresses) is evil.


ip addresses are no private data, they are necessary for the communication,
your objection makes about as much sense as telling people not to count how often you call 'em by name. Its not like someone is digging for data about you in person.


Originally by: Hel O'Ween

Because Google Analytics is of course blocked my be, therefore I am notified for any site that's using it.


so, whats your stance on ccp logging the amount of current online users, your amount of logins (which is data linked to your person) the ingame time you spend (linked data aswell) etc?

i'm active in privacy protection societies, we teach people how to kill rfid tracking, fight laws that give governments the rights to invade your privacy, be it by public cameras or online surveilance, and alot of other things,
but what you are going on about here is ridiculous, either you do not understand what data exactly is available for the tracking, or this is a troll, either case - are you sure this is the right forum for this?

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:04:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 28/07/2011 17:07:04
Originally by: Johnny May

maybe people running a side want to know if its used, and therefor worth the work comming with it?



As I said: use your server's log files. You see, as tempting as it may be to know how many times my EWA has been downloaded, I do not count downloads, let alone track visitors. So I put my "money" where my mouth is.

Quote:

ip addresses are no private data, they are necessary for the communication,
your objection makes about as much sense as telling people not to count how often you call 'em by name. Its not like someone is digging for data about you in person.



They are private data, otherwise they couldn't be used to identify and trial you.

Quote:

so, whats your stance on ccp logging the amount of current online users, your amount of logins (which is data linked to your person) the ingame time you spend (linked data aswell) etc?



I carefully evaluated the pros and cons and decided to go for it.

Quote:

i'm active in privacy protection societies, we teach people how to kill rfid tracking, fight laws that give governments the rights to invade your privacy, be it by public cameras or online surveilance, and alot of other things,
but what you are going on about here is ridiculous, either you do not understand what data exactly is available for the tracking, or this is a troll, either case - are you sure this is the right forum for this?


So we're in the same boat. I helped to stop the German implementation of the EU data retention directive and support organisations like the German Pirate party (see EWA's web site) or FoeBuD through membership and donations. And, of course, I anny my family and friends with my paranoia. Wink

And I'm fully aware of what data is available and how it can be used to uniquely identify users. This one doesn't even need the IP address, so it's possible to connect different IP addresses back to the same browser.

Maybe it's because I'm German and the fact that we hosted not one but two totalitarian systems in our country in the last century makes me a bit more skeptical to any kind of tracking attempts.

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:04:00 - [19]
 

i too am a member of foebud and the pirate party, oh and german aswell,
still i'm not pleased by you derailing my thread with your petty paranoia.

Devai Starchild
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.29 12:09:00 - [20]
 

If you really want to be something professional and widely used you will need to add some features to your project browsing experience. At the minimum you will need:

* Comments
* A rating system
* The ability to sort by rating/downloads/ and most recently updated.

Also, keep the categories general and simple. Having three different categories of API in the same list is not ideal. If you are going to do it like that, you want multiple tiers, like:

Types:

API
- PHP
- Ruby
- Python
Application
- Fitting
- Forum
Etc

The format is good. Really good actually. Keep it nice and clean. Project descriptions will need to use good punctuation. Also, the short descriptions are a little too short. It needs to be a small paragraph, that is either truncated with a "Read more" link or displayed there. A three word description is, also, not ideal. Even moreso a three word description with all lower case letters.

Eliana Bandokar
Robonia
Posted - 2011.07.29 14:42:00 - [21]
 

Nice idea, though I'd echo the comment somewhere up above about needing to tweak the CSS somewhat....some of us have terrible eyesight you know :D

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.31 07:47:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Devai Starchild
If you really want to be something professional and widely used you will need to add some features to your project browsing experience. At the minimum you will need:

* Comments


Comments are alleready there?

Originally by: Devai Starchild

* A rating system
i have not decided if i really want todo that, rating systems are above what a catalogue is doing, and require extensive measures to prevent manipulation



Originally by: Devai Starchild

* The ability to sort by rating/downloads/ and most recently updated.


rating, see comment before
downloads: no way to know which app has been downloaded how often
updated: basically something like that will come right after the ability to update, however having the news allways showing the latest news of the projects (if rss is given) should allready take care of this to some extend.

Originally by: Devai Starchild

The format is good. Really good actually. Keep it nice and clean. Project descriptions will need to use good punctuation. Also, the short descriptions are a little too short. It needs to be a small paragraph, that is either truncated with a "Read more" link or displayed there. A three word description is, also, not ideal. Even moreso a three word description with all lower case letters.

eh, well thats up to the particular developers, how and in how many words they describe their application.
The only thing i refuse if they don't describe the application itself (happend in one case so far).

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.08.03 08:15:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Lupus Hekki on 03/08/2011 08:23:49
in response to
Originally by: Eliana Bandokar
Nice idea, though I'd echo the comment somewhere up above about needing to tweak the CSS somewhat....some of us have terrible eyesight you know :D

I know, i shouldn't have done this. But i've created a static clone (nothing is scripted) because the header is missing something
http://f.cl.ly/items/2l0m1a3a0n2N2r3v3Y36/Screen%20Shot%202011-08-03%20at%209.08.25%20AM.png
same goes for the footer
http://f.cl.ly/items/2u072A170L1i2E3F0q3u/Screen%20Shot%202011-08-03%20at%209.11.03%20AM.png

IF Peter likes it, the changes i've made are here, http://f.cl.ly/items/3y3P0112173N1a161X2l/3pechanges.txt


Anyway, Nice project. Now people will be able to locate different projects fast at once place. instead of lurking ten different sites.

Instead as the proposed downloads (Which you could do, if the files are hosted at your server, and you have access to a database, just proxy the files though a script) you can log the amount of times the project has been clicked (Outgoing links) per unique IP, and use that as a sort of 'popularity' (if that makes sense)

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:48:00 - [24]
 

i think what eliana meant was more the css for the texts and such.

as for the header and footer, nice of you todo that work, but i wont be using it, it kinda looks less clean then the current header/footer, while not adding anything that enhances the experience.
thanks anyways :)

i just went through the last few projects that have applied and approved 'em :) happy weekend everyone!

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.08.07 00:07:00 - [25]
 

I support this. I have added my service, EVE Central Intelligence, to you projects list.

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:18:00 - [26]
 

all new projects have been approved :)

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:42:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Peter Powers
all new projects have been approved :)


Any chance of adding an announcement in the project news feed when a project is added? Even a weekly or daily summery of the new projects would be helpful.

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:17:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Roark

Any chance of adding an announcement in the project news feed when a project is added? Even a weekly or daily summery of the new projects would be helpful.


yeah, i like that, for now i'll go with the summary, however it wont be weekly, but more related to when projects are approved.

first update

enjoy,
PP

Callean Drevus
Caldari
Icosahedron Crafts and Shipping
Silent Infinity
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:23:00 - [29]
 

But... The website still looks like someone with a pen dribbled a bit on a piece of paper. Making it nicer to look at would go a long way towards making this website more popular.

Other than that :) looking good Wink


 

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