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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:00:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Zirse
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Aryndel Vyst
You poor misguided fool. Do you even understand how politics work?

I'll answer that for you....no you do not.

Son, I would bet that I've got you by 10 years, good odds that I've got you by 20+, 50/50 that I've got you by 25+.

I'm *very* aware of how "irl" politics works. I was just pointing out that he/you are wrong.

I *do* so enjoy being right once in awhile... Rolling Eyes


Nope, pretty sure CSM candidates aren't bound to any sort of agreement that makes them responsible for the entire player-base. Why would they spend the effort outside of their constituents, or more honestly, their area of preferred play-style? Ideally, maybe they should, but this is EVE.

According to the link I gave, and the data there, the CSM rep's the interests of all players to CCP.

Which is one of the reasons why having people without knowledge of 0.0 mechanics suggesting changes for 0.0 was a bad idea. They should have *ASKED* 0.0 players what to adjust, how to adjust it and where/when to adjust it. (Gotten feedback and input first, then make suggestions). Instead, players (representing 0.0 to CCP w/o direct knowledge or feedback) made suggestions that were not only against the interests of 0.0 players and possibly even *ahem!* "ill advised".

Just because someone doesn't play in 0.0 (or Hi-Sec, or Low-Sec or WH's or FW) does *NOT* relieve them of the responsibility of doing "due diligence" if they're going to make suggestions on "fixes" to those areas.

I *do* believe that is what got the current crop of 0.0 reps running and elected this term, is it not?Cool

Fee Seas
Posted - 2011.08.06 02:03:00 - [32]
 

Wuts goin on in dis here thread?

Angelica Winters
Posted - 2011.08.06 22:58:00 - [33]
 

Make them bleed and cry, as long as you keep fixing the game.

AW

One CoolCat
Posted - 2011.08.31 22:36:00 - [34]
 

CSM maybe equally surprised that you can make daytrips and mine in HED-GP.

Reana Shadows
Caldari
Damocles Society
Quebec United Legions
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:28:00 - [35]
 

At this point who give a dam anyway lol

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:56:00 - [36]
 

Pretty good post. He's spot on too.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.09.04 06:22:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 04/09/2011 06:22:33
Originally by: Lakitel
Let me also add that theory aside, even in real life there is a representative from each constituency, the number of representatives (with their voting weight) differ depending on how many of a certain constituency there is. So for example (and these numbers are completely hypothetical) if 60% of the players are high sec, 20% from low sec, 10% from null sec and 10% from WHs, that means in a team of 10 representatives, 6 should be from high-sec, 2 should be from low sec, and 1 from each null sec and WHs.

During the last CSM elections I lived in 0.0 (and voted based on 0.0 issues).

Yet, I had 2 characters in 0.0 and 5 characters in empire.

Would you want to force my hauling/trading/mission alts to be represented by some high-sec CSM rep when I could have hardly cared less about that part of space because I spent most of my playtime in 0.0 anyways?

Jaxon Grylls
Posted - 2011.09.04 08:45:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Cyaxares II

Would you want to force my hauling/trading/mission alts to be represented by some high-sec CSM rep when I could have hardly cared less about that part of space because I spent most of my playtime in 0.0 anyways?


No, absolutely not, but if you can't see the results of nerfing other aspect of the game in favour of 0.0 and its consequent effects on your hisec activities then it's not my place to enlighten you on self-interest.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.09.04 09:05:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Jaxon Grylls

No, absolutely not, but if you can't see the results of nerfing other aspect of the game in favour of 0.0 and its consequent effects on your hisec activities then it's not my place to enlighten you on self-interest.
No man, I feel it's your duty to tell him why eliminating the need for drudging in hisec is against his self-interest.

Jaxon Grylls
Posted - 2011.09.05 17:03:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
No man, I feel it's your duty to tell him why eliminating the need for drudging in hisec is against his self-interest.


If he gets no benefit from having a presence in hisec, then why is he there? And if he does have a reason to be there why should he not care about it?

Ah, sorry, I see where you seem to be going with this. You appear to think that if CCP, at the instigation of the CSM, shifts all of the advantages found in other sectors of the game into 0.0 then that will make the game "fairer" and "more balanced"

Wouldn't be a 0.0 resident yourself, would you?

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.09.05 19:24:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Jaxon Grylls

If he gets no benefit from having a presence in hisec, then why is he there? And if he does have a reason to be there why should he not care about it?
Where did I say or infer that he has no benefit from living in hisec? Clearly he does. Let's see if I can explain this to you:

Why mine ice or low-ends in 0.0 and risk your mackinaw on every undock when you can mine it under the protection of CONCORD?
Why research blueprints in 0.0 where the stations are few and takeable and pos's are vulnerable to caps and supercaps when you can research it in 0.0, when you can research in total safety in hisec?
Why manufacture goods, why build T2, etc, etc.

Most null players have multiple hisec alts because it's simply impractical and non-profitable to do day-to-day logistics and industry in 0.0. In truth, it's these hisec alts that are the cornerstone of 0.0 functionality. However given the option, they would prefer not needing any of their alts in hisec. And they vote accordingly.

Quote:
Ah, sorry, I see where you seem to be going with this. You appear to think that if CCP, at the instigation of the CSM, shifts all of the advantages found in other sectors of the game into 0.0 then that will make the game "fairer" and "more balanced"
Yeah dude, if you're going to have one zone that has huge risk and the other have zero risk, balancing the reward that comes with risk is rather crucial. Otherwise you end up with lowsec.

Jaxon Grylls
Posted - 2011.09.06 11:28:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Jaxon Grylls on 06/09/2011 11:29:39
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza


Most null players have multiple hisec alts because it's simply impractical and non-profitable to do day-to-day logistics and industry in 0.0. In truth, it's these hisec alts that are the cornerstone of 0.0 functionality. However given the option, they would prefer not needing any of their alts in hisec. And they vote accordingly.


OK, I'll bite.

Why then should people in hisec not care about what happens there? Surely it is in their own interest to make sure that they get the most out of it. If you are saying that because they do not want to be in hisec but feel they have to because of all the perceived disadvantages involved in having a pure 0.0 existence, that they will vote to increase the benefits, facilities and opportunities in nullsec, even if that means nerfing the chances of other people in hisec, WHS and so on, two things come to mind:

1) that these actions will have no unintended effects on the balance of the game, debatable in my opinion.

2) that it seems a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Are people in 0.0 so contemptuous of "carebears", jealous or insecure that they need to have everything that the other sections in the game have along with all the benefits that being, supposedly, a pioneer, frontiersman sort of character brings, such as the ability to run Capital ships, POS, sovereignty on systems etc. I just do not see why the fact that others choose to play EVE as they wish should be a threat. Sure, being in hisec is comparatively safe, but as you already have aknowledged it does have its drawbacks and restrictions. Rightly so in my opinion, it would not be fair to other areas of the game if it did not, but if players choose to remain in hisec with all its drawback then surely they should take an interest in what happens there and fight hisec's corner if need be.


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