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Aperia Rotsuda
Posted - 2011.07.26 10:37:00 - [1]
 

I'm trying to figure out how to do the math to determine the most beneficial ores to mine to meet a specific mineral quota, and while I'm alright at math normally, this one is really stumping me.

Could anyone point me to some resources that will help me understand the math to do this, or perhaps a sheet with slightly more comprehensible formulas than Dedaf's?

I don't want to use an external tool, as I need to understand the math both to incorporate it into my project and to have the personal satisfaction of understanding it.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.26 10:41:00 - [2]
 

Mine whatever makes you the most ISK per unit of time spent, sell the excess, and buy whatever you need.

Lando Tarsadan
Posted - 2011.07.26 10:42:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Lando Tarsadan on 26/07/2011 10:42:43
will this one help ?

http://eve.grismar.net/ore/full.php

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.26 11:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Mine whatever makes you the most ISK per unit of time spent, sell the excess, and buy whatever you need.

This is how you should do it.

Phunkeh
Posted - 2011.07.26 11:36:00 - [5]
 

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

I use this not only for seeing which ore is the best for refining to a specific mineral, but also for noting the most valuable ore in high sec, low sec, etc. By far the most useful ore table I've seen.

Aperia Rotsuda
Posted - 2011.07.26 21:41:00 - [6]
 

Not a single one of these is at all what I am looking for, the logistics of moving the ore around to sell are impractical, so I need to make the most of the time by mining what I need specifically. If you can't answer the question, why attach garbage that was specifically not asked for?

Alsione Ailermane
Amarr
Crimson Empire.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.07.26 21:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lando Tarsadan
Edited by: Lando Tarsadan on 26/07/2011 10:42:43
will this one help ?

http://eve.grismar.net/ore/full.php


This should be exactly what you need. If not, you need to clarify your needs.

For my ops, I use this chart data and wrote my own spreadsheet that told me how much of the mineral I could get from mining xx amount of yy ore.

ChaoticDemon
Posted - 2011.07.27 00:38:00 - [8]
 

http://evegeek.com/
The ore info page tells what the ore refines too the ore calc page will tell you with your standings and skills what you will get when you refine

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.27 02:05:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Aperia Rotsuda
Not a single one of these is at all what I am looking for, the logistics of moving the ore around to sell are impractical, so I need to make the most of the time by mining what I need specifically. If you can't answer the question, why attach garbage that was specifically not asked for?


RUDE!

The suggestions and information from the other posters were given freely and obviously were an attempt to assist you with your question. The only garbage there is the poor manners and ungrateful attitude highlighted in red.

1. Beggars can't be choosers
2. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.




Aperia Rotsuda
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:03:00 - [10]
 

Joan Avon: By far the least 'rude' thing you're likely to hear on a daily basis in EVE, also, who placed you in charge of passing judgement? If mine was rude, yours was tactless.

To the others:

Perhaps I wasn't clear, I'm looking for "the most beneficial ores to mine to meet a specific mineral quota" as I said before, since providing Dedaf's sheet as a reference for what I was looking for in functionality, was insufficient I would also like to point you to http://gunfleet.org/igb/miningForMinerals.php which is also functionally similar.

However, as I also stated, "I don't want to use an external tool, as I need to understand the math both to incorporate it into my project" so using these would otherwise defeat my purposes.

Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:28:00 - [11]
 

The basic method for deciding what to mine, if you can't simply sell the best and buy the rest, requires nothing more than a spreadsheet, a list of what ores refine into and a little time.

List out your mineral requirements and look at the two, maybe three, that you need the most of. Find the ore that gives the best ratio of these and figure out how much you need of it to cover most of the requirements; the small amount you still need will usually come in from the ores you mine to get the minerals you need less of. Repeat with the next group of minerals and so on.



Short Version: Honestly you should already have all the information you need. Just put it into your spreadsheet of choice... or mail someone list of what you need and some isk and ask them to do it for you Wink

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.27 12:10:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 27/07/2011 12:14:12

The answer is a simple discrete linear optimization problem.

Your unknown variables are v_1, v_2, ... v_n - the volume of each ore you will have to mine.

Your inputs are q_1, q_2, ... q_m - the quantities of each mineral you want to get.

We will also use additional factors r_i_j for i in 1..n and j in 1..m to determine refining amounts. 1 m^3 of ore i should refine into r_i_j units of mineral j. These are not variables, these are fixed constants. Find them using any refining chart and your refining skills and station base refine rates. Note that most of them will be zeros (each ore only refines to a few minerals).


You want to minimize the sum v_1 + v_2 + ... + v_n.

Your conditions are:
v_1 * r_1_1 + v_2 * r_2_1 + ... + v_n * r_n_1 >= q_1
v_1 * r_1_2 + v_2 * r_2_2 + ... + v_n * r_n_2 >= q_2
...
v_1 * r_1_m + v_2 * r_2_m + ... + v_n * r_n_m >= q_m.

The above gives you a linear optimization problem, the optimal solution of which is the ore composition you are looking for. Use the simplex algorithm or any other from a wide range of LO solvers to find it.

However, note that the solution will only be approximate. This is because you can only mine certain discrete volumes of ore in one mining cycle, and you can only refine certain discrete amounts of ore at once. Finding the exact solution would be slightly more complicated. But even just solving the above should give you a pretty good accuracy - worst case you will need to mine for a few more cycles.



Also note that you will still most likely spend more time mining Veldspar than it would take to mine ABCs and haul them to Jita to sell and buy trit. But you asked for the calcs.

Aperia Rotsuda
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:44:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 27/07/2011 12:14:12

The answer is a simple discrete linear optimization problem.

Your unknown variables are v_1, v_2, ... v_n - the volume of each ore you will have to mine.

Your inputs are q_1, q_2, ... q_m - the quantities of each mineral you want to get.

We will also use additional factors r_i_j for i in 1..n and j in 1..m to determine refining amounts. 1 m^3 of ore i should refine into r_i_j units of mineral j. These are not variables, these are fixed constants. Find them using any refining chart and your refining skills and station base refine rates. Note that most of them will be zeros (each ore only refines to a few minerals).


You want to minimize the sum v_1 + v_2 + ... + v_n.

Your conditions are:
v_1 * r_1_1 + v_2 * r_2_1 + ... + v_n * r_n_1 >= q_1
v_1 * r_1_2 + v_2 * r_2_2 + ... + v_n * r_n_2 >= q_2
...
v_1 * r_1_m + v_2 * r_2_m + ... + v_n * r_n_m >= q_m.

The above gives you a linear optimization problem, the optimal solution of which is the ore composition you are looking for. Use the simplex algorithm or any other from a wide range of LO solvers to find it.

However, note that the solution will only be approximate. This is because you can only mine certain discrete volumes of ore in one mining cycle, and you can only refine certain discrete amounts of ore at once. Finding the exact solution would be slightly more complicated. But even just solving the above should give you a pretty good accuracy - worst case you will need to mine for a few more cycles.



Also note that you will still most likely spend more time mining Veldspar than it would take to mine ABCs and haul them to Jita to sell and buy trit. But you asked for the calcs.


This is the part where I go "uh huh, looks right" because I can't tell without grabbing some paper if that's right, but it looks like it to me based one Headmath. This is also the part where I grab you, jump up and down hugging you going "thank you thank you thank you!" because I was stumbling through this and you gave me even more than I was looking for!

Also: It would be easier to mine ABCs and sell, but hauling in and out of WHs is a pain.

Aline Kia
Caldari
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:06:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Aline Kia on 29/07/2011 11:07:19
Edited by: Aline Kia on 29/07/2011 11:06:52
Below is maybe what you're after:

Ore_____________Mineral
Veldspar________Tritanium
Scordite________Pyerite
Plagioclase_____Mexallon
Kernite_________Isogen
Hemorphite______Nocxium
Crokite_________Zydrine
Arkonor_________Megacyte

Each gives the most of the specified mineral type per m3 mined.


 

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