open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked How do carebears enjoy the game?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

Author Topic

Trig Onami
Caldari
Onami Corporation
Posted - 2011.07.26 11:57:00 - [121]
 

When 3 to 10 people per Region are too lazy to travel to the Regional Hub, they decide to make a sell order on the market for a certain product. If the price is right, I'll buy it from all of them, plan a route and pick it all up to deliver it to the Regional Hub for decent profit. My buying power can double in a week. On the side, I do missions for standing to reduce refining costs. I mine 109,000m3 when I have time. I Planetary Interact every few days. I manufacture. I research. Never a dull moment in EVE.

Soon, I'll be able to stalk other hottie alts at stations with my hottie alts. LOL!!!

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.26 12:32:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Lyrrashae on 26/07/2011 12:35:05
Originally by: Jeronas Kane

Oh please spare me your bull****!

I have spend a very long time in 0.0 with one of my now abolished old chars. So don't tell me about the so called risks in 0.0 !

All you need is a decent Alliance / corp with some foothold in 0.0 and you can pretty much risk free grind your brains out on faction NPC rats in 0.0 belts and rake in millions of ISK per hour!
I have seen old corp mates grind their subscription fee (plex) together in just under a day (or two) back then on just 0.0 belt ratting!

And then we don't even talk about the lucrative 0.0 mining of ABC ores!
There is a reason why the current CSM (all 0.0 alliance turds) are crying to CCP to remove ABC ores from Worm holes, because they are losing their monopoly and see their income reducing!

0.0 (NulSec) PVP has been vastly overrated and always has been! I (and many others) found it a total borefest!
I have much more fun in HighSec now on new char(s) than I ever had in my time in 0.0 !



This. +1, couldn't agree more. At the risk of hijacking the thread, I must say:

I will never go back to zero-sec full-time, for exactly these reasons--The only times you'll see me in null again are when me and my mates are BLOPs-dropping your smug carebear arse in the belt you thought your fail-alliance owned with impunity, and our Stealth Bombers smash your officer-fitted bling-barge into junk before you even know what's hit you!

And then we cloak, scatter, safe-up, and ride the "Pig-express" home, disappearing like we'd never been there at all, and there is nothing your pathetic lemming-squad bubble-camps and even more pathetic bot/RMT-financed super-capital blobs can do about it!

HA-HA, score one for the "non-1337!" (I am falling in love with BLOPs--I just hope EVE doesn't finish bleeding out in the meantime, before I can experience them fully, that's some loooooooog training Confused...)

Oh, and all you mining- and ratting botters, and the filth at CCP who look the other way as regards same--YOU can go **** yourselves.

Want the real EVE end-game? In known-space, Black/Covert Ops. Otherwise, wormholes. Full-stop, end-of.

Null-sec? Thank you, no.

EDIT: Fixed fail sentence-structure and syntax.

Emiko Luan
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.26 12:50:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Emiko Luan on 26/07/2011 12:51:27
- Missions should only reward LP

GENIUS! This would fix everything :o

I'm not a carebear, but I do love every aspect of eve, (though manufacturing is a bit complicated and gives me a headache :p)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.26 13:25:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 13:25:53
Originally by: Prince Kobol
Just to be clear, are you advocating the removal of isk from all missions?
Complete removal? Probably not, but that depends on the answer to the question I asked (repeated below). Reduction of pure ISK injection? Yes.
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
Bounties during HighSec missions are crap too.
…so again: what would you guesstimate the average ratio between mission agent rewards (base and time bonus) and mission bounty payout to be? Whether they're crap or not isn't particularly relevant — what matters is how much ISK they inject.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.07.26 13:44:00 - [125]
 

As a self-proclaimed bear, I enjoy the game as I enjoy any game. I do what I want when I want (although that does occasionally mean I run afoul of other people doing the same thing who blow up my shiny ships).

If I want to veg out, I'll mine.
Or I'll go run missions or anoms with corp mates if I want to chat and be social.
Or we'll go on a roam and I'll lose another ship (and probably a pod).

It really depends on what I feel like doing.

Jeronas Kane
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.26 13:46:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Jeronas Kane on 26/07/2011 13:48:07
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 13:25:53
Originally by: Prince Kobol
Just to be clear, are you advocating the removal of isk from all missions?
Complete removal? Probably not, but that depends on the answer to the question I asked (repeated below). Reduction of pure ISK injection? Yes.
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
Bounties during HighSec missions are crap too.
…so again: what would you guesstimate the average ratio between mission agent rewards (base and time bonus) and mission bounty payout to be? Whether they're crap or not isn't particularly relevant — what matters is how much ISK they inject.


You really continue to FAIL to see the point do you?

Mission running and bounties from NPC rats in HighSec is already low and has ben nerfed into oblivion already! (CCP's earlier EPIC FAIL jerk actions to try force people into NulSec, because people like you were crying NERF!)

The amount of ISK being injected in the system is based on the amount of people doing it!

So yeah, ofcourse if the vast majority of people enjoy staying in HighSec, then you do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of ISK will be coming from HighSec missions and NPC bounties.

It's just totally ******ed to punish everyone in HighSec to YET AGAIN cry for NERF on mission and bounty ISK rewards, just because the vast majority of people are in HighSec and are enjoying themselves!

Are you that daft and oblivious?

I can tell you, especially after recent PR debacle, if CCP is going to continue to listen to whiners like you and does another round of NERF's in HighSec, then this game will see a massive drop in subs for REAL this time! I can promise you that!

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.07.26 14:00:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Complete removal? Probably not, but that depends on the answer to the question I asked (repeated below). Reduction of pure ISK injection? Yes.


As said by the poster above, tha amount of isk injected is dependant of the number of players doing it.

If everyone and their dogs were farming 0.0 belts/anomalies, they'd inject one hell of a lot of isks. Probably more, as their reward would be pure isks, not part isks, part LP. Would you ask for a reduction of npc bounties, then?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.26 14:06:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 14:07:56
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
You really continue to FAIL to see the point do you?
I have to begin to be able to continue. So no.
Quote:
Mission running and bounties from NPC rats in HighSec is already low and has ben nerfed into oblivion already!
…ages ago.
Quote:
The amount of ISK being injected in the system is based on the amount of people doing it!
Exactly, so that's why I'm asking: what would you guesstimate the average ratio between mission agent rewards (base and time bonus) and mission bounty payout to be?
Quote:
So yeah, ofcourse if the vast majority of people enjoy staying in HighSec, then you do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of ISK will be coming from HighSec missions and NPC bounties.
So you understand this after all. Good.
Quote:
It's just totally ******ed to punish everyone in HighSec to YET AGAIN cry for NERF on mission and bounty ISK rewards, just because the vast majority of people are in HighSec and are enjoying themselves!
Actually, that's why it's exactly the right thing to do, since that's where you'd get the most effect for the least amount of change and where there already is a mechanic in place for shifting from a system of pure injection towards one based on conversion and/or transfer.

If you had stopped for a second to think even a tiiiiiny bit and taken the time to answer the question, and if you had known the stats for the various faucets and sinks, rather than just resort to hurling insults, you would have understood where I'm going with this pretty much immediately. You didn't and you don't, so now we have to do it the hard way…
Originally by: Shadowsword
As said by the poster above, tha amount of isk injected is dependant of the number of players doing it.
…and it's the consequence of this that he seemingly doesn't grasp.
Quote:
If everyone and their dogs were farming 0.0 belts/anomalies, they'd inject one hell of a lot of isks.
Big if. Hence the question.

Fi1ippo
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.26 14:15:00 - [129]
 

I take no offense to being called a carebear. Considering i have been a gladiator since season 2 in WoW (its season 10 now) and ive raided with a top 20 U.S. guild (top 50 in the world) i know that there are some areas i am good at...EVE is different. Losing rating and ego in arena is one thing, losing in EVE means potentially losing everything, and since i like to fly pretty expensive ships and fits, i tend to stear clear of pvp.

I enjoy missioning, playing the markets, saving up for the next ship...its a nice, easy, relaxing method of gaming in comparison to games where you need to actually have superior reflexes and class knowledge in order to be successful. Not just in referance to warcraft, but any game. BUt since warcraft is what ive played since 2005, i can say that eve in comparison is so much slower, yet almost theraputic and its a nice break from the raiding and pvp scene which generally took up most of my weeknights (used to raid from 7-midnight on progression 5-6 days a week).

Its a different play style, i dont want to pvp in this game simply because i dont really have the time or patience (at least right now, during peak progression and being swamped with work) to replace the assets id lose in the process. So im playing a bit idle, gathering resources, ships, money, etc in preparation for one day that i might enter the pvp scene, even though it looks too slow to keep me interested for very long. (Im a reflex gamer, mostly FPS games and arena pvp...so fast pvp is what i enjoy the most). Im not beyond trying it, but to assume everyone joins this game for pvp is just way off the mark.

Again, doesnt really offend me. I make money, i have hot ships, and i enjoy what im doing. Thats how this "carebear" enjoys eve.

Vaako Horizon
Posted - 2011.07.26 14:31:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Fi1ippo
I take no offense to being called a carebear. Considering i have been a gladiator since season 2 in WoW (its season 10 now) and ive raided with a top 20 U.S. guild (top 50 in the world) i know that there are some areas i am good at...EVE is different. Losing rating and ego in arena is one thing, losing in EVE means potentially losing everything, and since i like to fly pretty expensive ships and fits, i tend to stear clear of pvp.

I enjoy missioning, playing the markets, saving up for the next ship...its a nice, easy, relaxing method of gaming in comparison to games where you need to actually have superior reflexes and class knowledge in order to be successful. Not just in referance to warcraft, but any game. BUt since warcraft is what ive played since 2005, i can say that eve in comparison is so much slower, yet almost theraputic and its a nice break from the raiding and pvp scene which generally took up most of my weeknights (used to raid from 7-midnight on progression 5-6 days a week).

Its a different play style, i dont want to pvp in this game simply because i dont really have the time or patience (at least right now, during peak progression and being swamped with work) to replace the assets id lose in the process. So im playing a bit idle, gathering resources, ships, money, etc in preparation for one day that i might enter the pvp scene, even though it looks too slow to keep me interested for very long. (Im a reflex gamer, mostly FPS games and arena pvp...so fast pvp is what i enjoy the most). Im not beyond trying it, but to assume everyone joins this game for pvp is just way off the mark.

Again, doesnt really offend me. I make money, i have hot ships, and i enjoy what im doing. Thats how this "carebear" enjoys eve.


Along side the other points I was making with my first replay to the OP, EVE is by far the best game to come home to from working all day long. Even if you dont get to do much that one day you still know you have gotten somewhere thanks to the skill system :D

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:04:00 - [131]
 


Re-reading the last QEN (Q4 2010) there is a gap in the information that would be key to this argument.

The QEN leaves no doubt that the majority of players (80%) reside in high security space and that the largest isk sink in the game is bounty prizes (3-4x the next faucet).

The gap is whether the majority of that faucet is coming from the 80% of the players in highsec or from the small percentage of folks in null (11%). On it's face it seems like simple maths, but remember that this was a period of seemingly high participation of bots, etc. which apparently flourish in nullsec space where the risks can be arguably and ironically lower. If you believe second-hand reports, whole alliances participated in bounty-farming for isk production. While bots were reported in high sec space, they seem to be more of the 'lone wolf' sort and probably less likely to create as much isk as their organized nullsec counterparts.

I believe CCP has those numbers, despite their not being included in the QEN. Hopefully the folks on the analysis team are looking closely at that and reaching appropriate conclusions. However, without that information it's impossible to say whether high sec or null sec bounties should be nerfed. There is no doubt that bounties need to be nerfed if CCP feels there is too much isk entering the economy...and they did believe that according to the QEN. Rather than nerf, they were looking to increase isk sinks at that time. Skillbooks and blueprints were the obvious candidates, so I would expect to see new high level skills and blueprints (which would hopefully be caused by new content).

I think a large part of the debate in this thread is that one person (Jeronas Kane) is looking at it on the micro scale, while another (Tippia) is looking at things on the macro scale. As Jeronas said, people don't mission for the isk/bounties as there are (according to him) better and more profitable way to earn isk. Though the numbers show something entirely different, it could be that that is how people feel at the individual level.

And for the record, I would direct the people that disbelieve in the inflation in New Eden to the QEN mentioned above.

KB

Ditra Vorthran
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:08:00 - [132]
 

With all this talk of inflation/deflation, people are forgetting a very important point.

We do not have one source of inflation/deflation, but *two*. ISK and minerals.

The amount of ISK that is being injected into the game has been increasing (see the last quarterly report where CCP economist mentions his concern on this topic).

However, the amount of minerals being injected into the game *cough*bots*cough* is *also* increasing, causing an overabundance of minerals to be available. This lowers the cost of minerals, and therefore, lowers the expense of goods being manufactured.

Therefore yes, that Dominix that cost 35 million a year ago only costs 26 million now. But it is not only affected by the amount of ISK in the system, but also the amount of minerals available. If minerals are cheaper to buy so items are cheaper to produce, and therefore, people can sell them more cheaply for the same profit margin, and item prices fall as manufacturers strive to stay competitive with each other.

As the influx of minerals decrease (via CCPs efforts over the last few months) we see the prices of minerals increasing. Again, nothing to do with missioning and the ISK it inject into the system.

And this doesn't even start to take into account the supply/demand of items themselves. How much PvP is taking place in the game determines how much demand there are for items. More PvP = more demand = prices increase and vice versa.

Suffice to say, there are a host of issues that determine the increase/decrease of prices and an ISKs purchasing power. Changing mission and bounty rewards may be one aspect of the solution, but not the solution in its entirety.

Edart eno
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:12:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Edart eno on 26/07/2011 15:14:34
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Kunming
Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



loose less ships or learn to build your own stuff... evolve or die


Is that supposed to be an arguement? Are you 12 or something?

Mission runner inject ISK into the system like no other profession. It hurts pvpers who then need to do more boring ****, and it also hurts new players who now cant afford stuff as easily. CCP stated them selves that mission ISK pumping is wrong and they might change it to LP only, and also there is way too less pvp than they would desire.




I'm sorry mate, but you are just wrong...

What you are talking about is inflation (isk injection) but the thing is that, as long as your sources of income are getting inflated as wel (and guess what, PVP-loot is such an income...) you won't need to do more 'boring ****'.

In reality it might actually be the opposite, as more missioners generates more modules (loot) and minerals (refining) and therefore making your ship even less expensive.

If you talk about 'isk injections' atleast understand the concept and consequences before you use it. Isk injections hurt the people that have very large amounts of liquid isk, not you...

Jeronas Kane
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:32:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Jeronas Kane on 26/07/2011 15:40:54
Edited by: Jeronas Kane on 26/07/2011 15:39:44
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 14:07:56

If you had stopped for a second to think even a tiiiiiny bit and taken the time to answer the question, and if you had known the stats for the various faucets and sinks, rather than just resort to hurling insults, you would have understood where I'm going with this pretty much immediately. You didn't and you don't, so now we have to do it the hard way…



No you need to think a tiiiiiny bit and see that that would be just a JERK reaction, instead of trying to fix a problem that does not exist in HighSec !

All what your idiotic 0.0 friends and you try to do is KILLING OFF your OWN darn game with this kind of endlessly and idiotic whining!

If there was an inflation problem, than prices would have continued to go up and up (like you see in the typical themepark MMO's that go rampant on botting and failing game systems), but in EVE the prices of ships and modules have only gone down over the years! Which is called DEFLATION! NOT inflation!

And what causes DEFLATION? Massive ammounts of resources (in EVE's case ORE) being injected in the system, ending up in OVER production of ships and modules!
Massive ammounts of ORE being injected due to all the mining bots, operated by your NulSec friends in 0.0 space!

That is where the problem always has been. But we all know CCP devs have their own chars and friends in NulSec alliances. Hence them refusing giving out REAL details about EVE's economy and where the largest influx of ISK and Resources is REALLY coming from!

I rest my case.

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:56:00 - [135]
 

Why so serious?

Verity Sovereign
Posted - 2011.07.26 16:11:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Verity Sovereign on 26/07/2011 16:16:15
Imagine if Rat bounties and mission ISK rewards went away....


Continuous ship production, continuous loot drops, and a smaller and smaller ISK pool to due transaction fees, production line fees, repair bills, LP store purchases, etc.

Soon, there would be very little ISK left, and a lot of "hardware".
The guy with the last 10 ISK would be rich!

Btw, mission runners are not the problem, its incursions, the guys running incursions make huge sums of ISK that put lvl 4 mission runners to shame.

If everyone did missions, and never mined, then there would be a lot of ISK surplus, soon it would be much more attractive to mine and get people to give you ISK for your minerals which now cost a lot more due to inflation.

The economy of eve is self balancing.

Besides, do you ever use Meta 1-4 modules on your ship? ever wonder where those come from?
What about the rigs you keep fitting to your PvP ships? thats salvage from the mission runners.
The salvage and loot is always worth more than the mission reward.
For a typical lvl 4 mission, 10+ million ISK worth of salvage and loot, but only 2-3 million ISK in mission rewards. Of course the salvage value is actively destroyed everytime others change out rigs. And there are often bounties (unless you go up against empire faction ships, in which case you get tags which turn low value ships/items into high value ships/items).
The other day I got correlum C type 10mn AB, and a correlumn C type Energized adaptive nano membrane in high sec doing a PvE plex.

Modules I don't want and that don't sell well (oddly Meta 1 and 2 items sell less than your standard T0 meta0 items even at most hubs), I refine.
I sell everything except the megacyte and zydrine (since I can't mine those in high sec - although I have found zydrine at grav sites).

EVE's economy is stable and if you are upset, its because you don't understand it.


If you want to talk "ISK injections", look at ship insurance.
Everytime a ship is destroyed: The minerals, production time, and blueprint copy(escpecially if it was a faction/T2 ship_ used to make it are gone from eve.
In its place, ISK!
Less hardware in EVE, more ISK!.
PvPers destroying ships are what lead to inflation! Shocked
Especially those that take out the big insurance policies! ugh

Stop destroying hardware and trying to aquire new hardware with your ISK spawned out of nowhere! Very Happy

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.07.26 16:49:00 - [137]
 

Ok...if you're not going to read it, I'll post the pertinent numbers here
Quote:

The money supply rose by 11% in Q4 2010 and there is now a combined 445 trillion ISK on all accounts within EVE


Quote:

The main cause for the increase in money supply is that the bounty prizes increased by 8.1 trillion ISK in Q4 compared to Q3,
or from 67.6 trillion to 75.7 trillion


Quote:

EVE Central Bank has been monitoring the money supply closely and is becoming increasingly
concerned about the rate of growth in the total money supply and the subsequent risk of inflation
increase (see next section). The bank has therefore proposed that in 2011 there should be a focus
on increasing ISK sinks in order to curb potential inflation


Quote:

The MPI (Mineral basket) rose by 12.9% in Q4 and is currently at a similar level to what it was before the changes to
the insurance system in May, which significantly lowered the prices of minerals. Nocxium is by far
the biggest contributor to this inflation in mineral prices.


Quote:

The Consumer Price Index measures the overall price changes of consumer products. This is not
limited to consumables such as fuel, ammunition or PLEXes, but also includes assets such as ships,
modules, implants and starbase structures. In summary, anything that is not primarily used to produce other goods is included in the index, which contains over 4000 individual items...The CPI rose by 4.7% in Q4, fairly evenly distributed over the quarter.


Quote:

SUMMARY
This quarter was characterized by a boost in demand in December due to increased activity, including the return of experienced players as well as the reimbursement of learning skill points. The
introduction of the Noctis had a significant effect on the market, raising mineral prices considerably, especially for Nocxium. The Noctis has already started affecting the price of salvage and rigs
and will no doubt continue to do so. Starbase fuel, provided through Planetary Interaction, kept
on rising and seems to be reducing the number of starbases in operation, which is lowering demand for ice fuel but pushing moon material prices upwards. Finally, speculation regarding the new
CONCORD loyalty point store and changes to Planetary Interaction affected the price of planetary
products. With Incarna being launched this year we do expect demand to increase in 2011 with the
risk of increased inflation. If that does happen countermeasures would have to be taken in the form
of increased sinks, reduced faucets or even higher taxes in the


If you refuse to read and understand, then it's pointless to argue further. CCP believes there is inflation...hence their actions will reflect.


Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.26 17:01:00 - [138]
 

I'm mostly a bear, but have dabbled in many aspects of the game, including pvp. The core lesson I've learned:

The "depth" of Eve is core to its quality as a game. The fact that so many distinct types of play exist in game is central to Eve's success. The morons that focus only on their own play are just that: morons.

Long before Jump Freighters, and even before titan bridging and POS Jump Bridges, I've moved Freighters all over low sec and 0.0 with minimal escort. Never lost one, but did have some very close calls (paranoia is a healthy trait in Eve. More than once I've survived log in traps due to my paranoia (WITHOUT having to log off the moment I saw them logging in).

In one case I should have died, along with at least one of three loaded Freighters. The short of it is my scout missed 3 hostiles (a Megathron, a Blackbird, and some type of battlecruiser, I forget which). They warped in on the Freighters. The only thing defending was me in a Nighthawk. Our group was cloaked from jump. I gave quick orders to the other Freighter Pilot on TS. I uncloaked my Nighthawk, and opened up on the Blackbird. A half second latter I uncloaked the Freighter I was flying (least important cargo), to draw fire. The other two Freighters had orders to count 2 seconds, then try and warp to safety, whhich they followed.

The Hostiles RAN. I was shocked. Pleased, but shocked. That was my closest call. Needless to say, the scout was talked to (good guy, my in game boss even, but that was a close call...)

It can be more challenging than you think to run "successful" 0.0 industry on a large scale.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.26 17:20:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 17:23:40
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
No you need to think a tiiiiiny bit and see that that would be just a JERK reaction
I don't have to think about it even a tiny bit more — I've done so already, and I've educated myself on what the problem is and what the various solutions are. Now, if you want to be a jerk and not do the same, then that's up to you.
Quote:
If there was an inflation problem, than prices would have continued to go up and up (like you see in the typical themepark MMO's that go rampant on botting and failing game systems), but in EVE the prices of ships and modules have only gone down over the years! Which is called DEFLATION! NOT inflation!
Read the material published on the economy.
Quote:
That is where the problem always has been. But we all know CCP devs have their own chars and friends in NulSec alliances. Hence them refusing giving out REAL details about EVE's economy and where the largest influx of ISK and Resources is REALLY coming from!
Funnily enough, they have provided a fair amount of information on that topic. If you had educated yourself rather than commit all your time to insults, you would have known this.

Now, for that question you keep dodging: what would you guesstimate the average ratio between mission agent rewards (base and time bonus) and mission bounty payout to be?

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.26 17:33:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 26/07/2011 17:22:36
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
No you need to think a tiiiiiny bit and see that that would be just a JERK reaction
I don't have to think about it — I already have, and I've educated myself on what the problem is and what the various solutions are. Now, if you want to be a jerk and not do the same, then that's up to you.
Quote:
If there was an inflation problem, than prices would have continued to go up and up (like you see in the typical themepark MMO's that go rampant on botting and failing game systems), but in EVE the prices of ships and modules have only gone down over the years! Which is called DEFLATION! NOT inflation!
Read the material published on the economy.
Quote:
That is where the problem always has been. But we all know CCP devs have their own chars and friends in NulSec alliances. Hence them refusing giving out REAL details about EVE's economy and where the largest influx of ISK and Resources is REALLY coming from!
Funnily enough, they have provided a fair amount of information on that topic. If you had educated yourself rather than commit all your time to insults, you would have known this.

Now, for that question you keep dodging: what would you guesstimate the average ratio between mission agent rewards (base and time bo

nus) and mission bounty payout to be?


Not really following all this inflation stuff, I know CCP says there is too much isk in the game don't recall why/if they explained it. I'd guess it ties into the 'too many plex' aspect which is why we got Aurum Gold.

It makes no sense to me that they removed isk sinks like NPC goods to then let players faucet them out with tiny costs through PI while not adding more sinks. Then if CCP ever elaborated on what is 'too much isk' just the ball park number amoung all 'active' or whatever or individual accounts. Why is X 'too much isk', what is 'too much isk' for an account/character, what isn't 'too much isk'?

If there need to be methods to draw more isk out or slow the isk in then CCP needs to make the game more interesting, fun, etc which goes back to my pet project of fixing the abandon, broken, aborted features and aspects of existing gameplay.

Is the answer 20:1?




Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.26 17:52:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Not really following all this inflation stuff, I know CCP says there is too much isk in the game don't recall why/if they explained it. I'd guess it ties into the 'too many plex' aspect which is why we got Aurum Gold.
Nah. PLEX is not ISK — PLEX are actually quite economy neutral. The problem they have with PLEX is that it creates liability in their books, and they want to bleed that liability without upsetting the in-game market too much.
Quote:
It makes no sense to me that they removed isk sinks like NPC goods to then let players faucet them out with tiny costs through PI while not adding more sinks.
I haven't seen any numbers on it, but why do you assume that the post-PI sinks aren't as large as the pre-PI sinks?
Quote:
Then if CCP ever elaborated on what is 'too much isk' just the ball park number amoung all 'active' or whatever or individual accounts. Why is X 'too much isk', what is 'too much isk' for an account/character, what isn't 'too much isk'?
All good questions. They are more worried about ISK growth, though, from the sound of it.
Quote:
If there need to be methods to draw more isk out or slow the isk in then CCP needs to make the game more interesting, fun, etc which goes back to my pet project of fixing the abandon, broken, aborted features and aspects of existing gameplay.
Well, even without the economic situation, fixing abandoned stuff would be good. But more to the point, the nice part about missions is that they can be tweaked to inject less ISK without actually changing the final rewards.
Quote:
Is the answer 20:1?
Highly unlikely. Most missions will require you to kill an amount of ships that at least match the mission payout itself, so it would be quite odd if it were much higher than 1:1. It is also more or less impossible for it to be less than 1:8

Caiden Baxter
Posted - 2011.07.26 18:14:00 - [142]
 

So Tippia is the solution then just axe the bounties on npc's in missions and just keep the Concord payout as it is. ?


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.26 18:26:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Caiden Baxter
So Tippia is the solution then just axe the bounties on npc's in missions and just keep the Concord payout as it is. ?
Axing it is probably a bit much, but shifting more towards LP is definitely a good idea almost regardless. That would have the added benefit of making mission running ever so slightly more competitive, as well as making the rewards more self-balancing and player-controlled.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.07.26 18:34:00 - [144]
 

Care bear has since long ceased to be an insult.

People like salvaging or mining as it gives them a "false sense" of accomplishment and getting fake money on a fake bank account.
This gives them a sense of "worth" and leverage in virtual world as well as e-peen. Also the "bean counting game" (that can be optimised with spreadsheets" seem to appeal to a certain type of sudoku playing human being.


PvP is a full contact sport where the sense of domination over others and actual visceral competitiveness as well as a challenging fitting (again spreadsheets) game itself. These "mechanisms" exist both in carebear and pew pew activity.

Ship/fleet combat is where everything blends together with very complex logistics and tactical strategies where organisation and coordination is key (this is also true for all "serious" manufacturer industrialists in game).

A lot of players have their toes dipped in several layers of the game. These players have more than one account and takes part in pve, pvp and marketing/manufacturing. Care bear and Pew Pew alike.

Only the sad idiots (literally; isolated from a social context) sits in their own little world shooting red crosses and flies around dreaming of "epic pixels in" a carebearised safe enviroment or "Trammel". These individuals are mimicking theme park mmos way of playing the game. People who haven't taste the sand in a real sandbox and haven't experienced the intricate ways of "playing with other people". They essentially just transfer their "grinding" mentality over to eve. You can give a human being a lobotomy and he will be happy sitting in his own drool drawing with crayons (wow).








Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.26 18:51:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Tosser Galore
Care bear has since long ceased to be an insult.


You're wrong. When EVE was young, there was a nice symbiosis between carebears and PvPers, and most carebears would in fact participate in PvP - while PvP'ers would back up the industrialists.

Today, they're in much separated, and there's alot of people at both sides who don't want anything to do with the other.

It used to be that carebear was no insult, however, today it is.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.26 19:19:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Tippia


Now, for that question you keep dodging: what would you guesstimate the average ratio between mission agent rewards (base and time bonus) and mission bounty payout to be?


That's an interesting question and perhaps where a solution to the issue at hand could be.


Obviously since there are probably 8-10x more people running missions as a primary or secondary income source then there are people Ratting (Anom, plex and belt versions) the vast majority of the liquid isk flowing into the economy out of thin air is going to high sec. what is of relevent question is wether the missioners or ratters are getting a piece of the faucet in proportion to their percentage of the PvE population. My intuition tells me that the Null sec ratters are taking more liquid isk per capita then the missioners due to the speed at which a person can clear Sanctums Vs. level 4 missions. (Carrier ratting is disturbingly fast)

It's been a couple weeks since I've done any missioning. Even then I wasn't an avid missioner as it was to repetitive for my tastes. If I remember correctly for level 1 and 2 missions the amount of isk you received from the agent for completing the mission (Base + Time Bonus) was higher then the total of the bounties paid to you from concord for killing the pirate rats.

And again if remembered correctly most of level 3 and pretty much all of level 4's missions was the opposite. The sum total of the bounties paid for killing the rats exceeded the amount the agent paid you for doing the mission successfully. (This ignores completely the income made from loot, salvage, or LP)

Perhaps the solution is to retune the influx of isk for both:
Agents (Missioners only)
And
Concord bounties (Missioners and Ratters).



If we converted the agent reward into something tangible instead of liquid isk such as modules or ships or other objects of roughly equal value perhaps that would curb some (Not all) of the issue concerning the inflow of pure liquid isk into the economy in a way that doesn't slaughter missionings income as well as preserving ratting as an income source option since Non NPC Null sec residents don't have agents in their space.

Unfortunately this still leaves us with the issue of Ratting and Missioning bots unchecked


P.S: Thank you for the posts Tippia!


Regardless if I agree with you or not your posts are always insightful and thought provoking Smile

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.26 19:25:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Tosser Galore
Care bear has since long ceased to be an insult.


You're wrong. When EVE was young, there was a nice symbiosis between carebears and PvPers, and most carebears would in fact participate in PvP - while PvP'ers would back up the industrialists.

Today, they're in much separated, and there's alot of people at both sides who don't want anything to do with the other.

It used to be that carebear was no insult, however, today it is.


People can only insult you if you let them.

Decaped
Posted - 2011.07.26 19:35:00 - [148]
 

WTF has this foolish thread turned into. Take away isk for hi sec missions???? Thats about as good of an idea as RMT for game breaking items. How the **** do you expect the new players to be able to figure out how to get into low sec??? Think about the big picture before you selfish idiots start posting pls

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.26 19:39:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Decaped
Take away isk for hi sec missions????
No. Reducing ISK influx through missions. Different thing.
Quote:
Think about the big picture before you selfish idiots start posting pls
Read and understand what's being said before posting, please.

Decaped
Posted - 2011.07.26 19:44:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Decaped
Take away isk for hi sec missions????
No. Reducing ISK influx through missions. Different thing.
Quote:
Think about the big picture before you selfish idiots start posting pls
Read and understand what's being said before posting, please.[/quote

Reducing is still just as dumb. It shows me that you have no concept of in-game markets. How do you expect kill all the new peoples shiney's if they can't afford to buy any for you to kill? You sir see little besides whats on your own plate. Whats the saying? "If you can't afford to lose it then don't fly it." If you are having trouble affording whatever you are flying then you should downgrade or learn how to make more money. Don't be a **** stick and call for a nerf bat just because you can't sustain yourself.

1/10 trolling attempt


Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only