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Mobius Reynolds
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:27:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Jeronas Kane
Originally by: Mobius Reynolds
I'm a bit of a carebear, and I enjoy it only because I play the game with friends. When none of them are online, PvE gets very boring...very fast. The only reason I don't PvP is this: I don't know how, and I can't break in. Honestly, a games got about 20 battles to grab my attention in PvP, and thus far completely unstructured PvP has taken about 15 of those battles. PvP tutorials, or even a structured arena style system would be very helpful...essentially, I need to L2PvP but can't...(ok, I'll take off the count by one because I really shouldn't have been in a kestrel in the middle of nullsec...)...also, the salvage, tractor, and mining beams are shiny, as is my ship...

Although, I agree that missions should probably give out only LP if the ships in the mission have bounties. Also, bounties are kind of high, and could be nerfed. If LP was the only reward from missions, it would be nice if they reimbursed you for the cost of some of the ammo or missiles used (not all, and not at full price). Now that I'm done rambling on, I'll go back to thinking of some ship ideas for CCP to ignore.


NPC bounties in High Sec have been nerfed into oblivion already! They are a joke now! Except for the ocasional rare named that might show up now and then.

Unless you mean that the NPC rats in 0.0 need to be nerfed? As those are ridiculously high and untouched over the years.

A lot of people here are just bored and disgruntled 0.0 PVP'ers, who have no clue what they are talking about.

Instead of calling for nerfs to PVE content, maybe you should actually try it for yourself first and compare the ISK gains to faction NPC ratting in 0.0 belts hiding behind your corp/alliance. Or ABC ore mining for that matter!

Then we talk again.

PS. And while you're at it and stop making even more of an idiot of yourselves.. go google the word "inflation" and try understand what it actually means!

Rest my case.


Did I say inflation in my post? I merely mentioned an alternate method for a mission payouts, which are my primary source of income in eve, which I would find acceptable, as LP rewards and bounties are more than enough for me to make a net profit on the mission...If you don't find it acceptable you could just say so without so much hostility, but I guess "welcome to the internet" or even "welcome to the universe."

If this doesn't satisfy your hostility, perhaps you could better explain what exactly in my post seemed to make you so angry? It's not like my suggestions are instantly going to change the game immediately, and the likely-hood that the CCP is going to listen to anything I say is about as likely as the world ending in the next 5 minutes...I would say to you, "Welcome to the world, where people have different opinions, deal with it"

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:27:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/07/2011 15:29:15
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
Tell me Ms. Einstein, how are people suppose to make ISK, if you going to nerf the only way to actually really earn raw ISK?
Why said anything about that?
Quote:
And so far there is not a single indication that missions nor highsec rat bounties are a couse of an inflation that does not exist
Of course they are — all faucets are. And, again, look up the economy presentations to educate yourself on the topic of inflation.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:33:00 - [63]
 

If we're going to chant nerf to PVE for the sake of "reducing inflation" then perhaps CCP should also let us know how much inflation PVP is causing and how much of a problem it is.

I dare say a mission runner completing missions AND collecting loot is causing less inflation than a pure PVPer that dedicates 100% of his time destroying items.

So yes, let's open up this can of worms. I'd like to see what's in it.


Vodwyn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:33:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Vodwyn on 25/07/2011 15:35:40
Edited by: Vodwyn on 25/07/2011 15:33:33
I think most people avoid 0.0 not because of the risk of pvp, because watching local and dscan is not hard, but because every single alliance I've ever seen in nullsec is lead by groups of douchebags. Most people don't have the capacity to be talked down to like a dog as most nullsec people do. It's a self-respect before internet-cliquey, same phrase using, same old picture site linking, immersion into ******ism issue for many.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:35:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 25/07/2011 14:55:57
Originally by: Jeronas Kane
PVE mission running has never been a problem nor the cause for inflation!
…except for the significant influx of ISK it causes.
Quote:
Like others have already pointed out time and time again. Ore prices and ship prices have gone down over the years! NOT up!
…and as been pointed out, this is changing. Again, read up on the data presented by those who actually monitor the health of the economy.
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
…which has no effect on the ISK influx.
You're smarter than that and I know you're not trolling. I will simply say that it has effected my ISK and leave it at that.
Your ISK is irrelevant. We're talking about the effects of ISK faucets on the economy here, and loot and salvage has no effect on the influx of ISK.


I realize there is a difference between printing money and printing credit cards. Obviously the ISK I collect from bounties in missions counts directly.

Bounty is the # ISK faucet. The QEN does not specify how much comes from Mission runners and how much comes from other pve. Of the other pve, they especially do not specify how much comes from botting. And that's the real problem.

Originally by: Last QEN
The main cause for the increase
in money supply is that the bounty prizes increased by 8.1 trillion ISK in Q4 compared to Q3,
or from 67.6 trillion to 75.7 trillion. In addition players have increasingly been selling items to NPCs
such as insignias, overseer´s personal effects and sleeper loot, as well as other commodities such
as tobacco and garbage. In Q4 around 19 trillion ISK flowed into EVE from NPCs buying the aforementioned
commodities. The agent mission rewards increased by 3.7%, up to 5.7 trillion, in Q4

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:39:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/07/2011 15:40:23
Originally by: Cipher Jones
I realize there is a difference between printing money and printing credit cards. Obviously the ISK I collect from bounties in missions counts directly.
Yes, but the point was that your loot and salvage does not count, because they don't inject any ISK, so whether you make ISK from those or not is completely irrelevant.
Quote:
Bounty is the # ISK faucet. The QEN does not specify how much comes from Mission runners and how much comes from other pve. Of the other pve, they especially do not specify how much comes from botting. And that's the real problem.
…nor does it specify how much of the MR influx comes from botting. Most likely because they don't have a good number on how many bots there are and what they're doing.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:41:00 - [67]
 

I make things.

I mine my own ore (no it's not free but mining it is relaxing so why not), research my own blueprints, mine my own PI commodities, run a small tower, manufacture my own stuff for use or sale, and occasionally, I run missions, do exploration, or raid wormholes for salvage.

My wallet grows, and I enjoy myself. I run mostly solo because I don't have the time to spare to run ops, or to be tied down with committed time frames to play in. I hate being an unreliable partner, and given my life outside the game, I just can't do the corp/alliance thing, though I have done both over the last 4 years to see what it was like.

Eve allows me to play the game on my own terms. This is the best feature of the game, IMO.

Thomas Orca
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:43:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Tippia
You should read up (or watch up… ehm… yeah) on the economy presentations done at fanfest and for the CSM. It has changed into inflation and the influx of ISK is currently a problem.


You mean the one that says that the only thing on the EVE market that is inflating is PLEX?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:48:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Thomas Orca
You mean the one that says that the only thing on the EVE market that is inflating is PLEX?
No, the one that says that the CPI is changing from deflation to inflation.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:53:00 - [70]
 

Quote:
…nor does it specify how much of the MR influx comes from botting. Most likely because they don't have a good number on how many bots there are and what they're doing.


Yeah I would never expect them to know 100%, nor tell us what they do know.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:54:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/07/2011 15:54:41
They get an adrenaline rush when they are getting blown up by ninja looters.

Aeril Malkyre
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.25 16:39:00 - [72]
 

I am a carebear. I know only the basics of PvP to keep myself from screwing up and getting ganked by salvage ninjas. I grind Level 4 missions in a Maelstrom, and mine with an alt.

I run in the NPC corp, eschewing player corps, PvP and low-sec, because it's my choice. I choose what missions to take, I choose when I play, I choose what to mine. I'm not filling anybody's quota, I'm not logging in for a shift, I'm under no rules except Empire and the Republic. I enjoy the sights and sounds of battle in EVE. Missions give me plenty of that. I enjoy exploring the verse, and scan down wormholes or sites just to check them out. I've dove into W-space several times, just to look around, and it's a pretty awesome place to see. Hope to go in guns blazing some day and harvest some Sleepers. I've flown out to New Eden just to ogle the Gate for a while, even though it took a long, dangerous while to get there. I mine when I've got other things to do around the apartment that require more attention than watching a movie. Might as well make a few mill in the mean time. Or sometimes I'll use it as a time to force myself to read a book, feeding my multi-tasking OCD and my desire to keep learning simultaneously. I can be as social or as hermetic as I choose. I can engage in corp chat, or not, depending on my mood.

TL;DR
I'm a carebear because I'm in charge of my game experience.

BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2011.07.25 16:42:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: BrundleMeth on 25/07/2011 16:47:09
Originally by: Jeronas Kane

Oh please spare me your bull****!

I have spend a very long time in 0.0 with one of my now abolished old chars. So don't tell me about the so called risks in 0.0 !

All you need is a decent Alliance / corp with some foothold in 0.0 and you can pretty much risk free grind your brains out on faction NPC rats in 0.0 belts and rake in millions of ISK per hour!
I have seen old corp mates grind their subscription fee (plex) together in just under a day (or two) back then on just 0.0 belt ratting!

And then we don't even talk about the lucrative 0.0 mining of ABC ores!
There is a reason why the current CSM (all 0.0 alliance turds) are crying to CCP to remove ABC ores from Worm holes, because they are losing their monopoly and see their income reducing!

0.0 (NulSec) PVP has been vastly overrated and always has been! I (and many others) found it a total borefest!
I have much more fun in HighSec now on new char(s) than I ever had in my time in 0.0 !


Absoutely I agree !!!

I am having way more fun in Hi-sec than I ever had in Null. I love real PVP but not the joke it has become. Stupid blobs or hotdropping 10 SC's on a couple of Drakes and calling it a good fight.
Or spending 4 hours prepping for an OP only to have half the pilot's drop out before the fight cause they got real life issues to deal with. (Not their fault, spending way to much time just to get to the fight is stupid).

I have an immensely fun time buying and fe-fitting ships just for fun.
And ALL I care about here is having some fun.

Take away ISK for mission runners and really watch people quit, what a stupid idea...

Originally by: Aeril Malkyre
I'm a carebear because I'm in charge of my game experience.

Exactly, and no one else is. I make the game how I want it to be for ME....


Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.25 16:43:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Zahira Wrath
Originally by: Kunming
...


I beg to differ. You don't even know what inflation is.

Years ago a Dominix cost on average 67 million, now they can be found for 53 million on average.

That's called deflation, not inflation. If your gonna rant like a raving idiot at least get your terms right.

...


That is only the result of the fix made to the insurance payouts.

If you pump currency into the system, and dont take it out as fast, the currency will be worth less, which means everyone has to grind more. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

Nth Ares
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:07:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Zahira Wrath
Originally by: Kunming
...


I beg to differ. You don't even know what inflation is.

Years ago a Dominix cost on average 67 million, now they can be found for 53 million on average.

That's called deflation, not inflation. If your gonna rant like a raving idiot at least get your terms right.

...


That is only the result of the fix made to the insurance payouts.

If you pump currency into the system, and dont take it out as fast, the currency will be worth less, which means everyone has to grind more. Why is this so difficult to grasp?



You only have to grind more if you buy your ships and mods from highsec producers. No one is forcing you to get your equipment in Jita. You have the option of creating an alternate economy in nullsec. If anything I think this should be encouraged.

Work with like minded people in your corp or alliance. Set up PI, mining, and industry chains in nullsec to produce all the ships and fittings you need to PvP... get them to charge "fair" rates or work out a barter system. Maybe have it work as a communal system - from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs. Just do it without anyone setting foot in highsec, maybe you'll find happiness in this.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:11:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Kunming

If you pump currency into the system, and dont take it out as fast, the currency will be worth less, which means everyone has to grind more. Why is this so difficult to grasp?



If you pull currency out of the system and don't put it in as fast, The currency will be worth More but incomes will be less. so everyone has to grind more to get the same amount. Why is this so difficult to grasp?


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:11:00 - [77]
 

Quote:
You only have to grind more if you buy your ships and mods from highsec producers. No one is forcing you to get your equipment in Jita. You have the option of creating an alternate economy in nullsec. If anything I think this should be encouraged.


You don't have to go to your local mall, you can go to the Moon Mall.

Just as soon as they build the Moon Mall.

Jonah Gravenstein
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:16:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Aeril Malkyre

I'm a carebear because I'm in charge of my game experience.


Totally this, I'm a carebear because I do what I want, when I want, and on my own terms & I have fun doing it.
Besides I suck at pvp, I've done the wh thing, now I play on my noob alt.

I have 3 characters on this account, my main which is 2 yrs old, my trade alt and this one, this is a new character I rolled a couple of months back. Fun for me at the moment is running lvl 2's in a destroyer & seeing how much crap my rupture can handle in a lvl3, fun is in the challenge. Too easy to hop in a drake and grind 3's all day on my main.

I game to have fun, and eve let's me create that fun in the way I want to experience it.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:16:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Kunming

If you pump currency into the system, and dont take it out as fast, the currency will be worth less, which means everyone has to grind more. Why is this so difficult to grasp?




How about you give us at least one hard exemple of something that cost more than it did two years ago? because without that, your inflation is sort of non-existant...

-Minerals->stable, or lower prices for high-end.
-datacores->lower
-T2 mods->Stable
-Faction ships->stable
-T1 ships->lower
-Faction/deadspace mods->Stable for some, much higher for others, but you're not concernned, you won't pvp with a CN invul field on your ship.
-T2 ship->stable for some, higher for others, but already explained by the increase of players able to pilot them, and the invention supply lagging behind demand.
-rigs->lower

Where the hell is your inflation?

Zahira Wrath
Amarr
Dominion Strategic
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:17:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Kunming


That is only the result of the fix made to the insurance payouts.

If you pump currency into the system, and dont take it out as fast, the currency will be worth less, which means everyone has to grind more. Why is this so difficult to grasp?



No its not.
The price of ships and equipment has steadily been declining since before the insurance payout fix was implemented.

Gads man, you really are clueless. Rolling Eyes

Aldan Romar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:19:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Aldan Romar on 25/07/2011 17:20:25
I'm playing from a roleplaying perspective, which means I put a lot into storyline and development.

Meaning slowly building up, no random jumping from place to place, carefully chosing occupations and whom to fly for.

This is best achieved in high-sec PVE as it's the most controlable environment. I'd have no problems PVPing one day, but I'd need a story - just roaming systems and shooting people for fun wouldn't cut it.

All in all I tend to take a relaxed stance on the game. I look more towards story and character development than towards gain and result - if I get short on ISK I can sell always buy and sell PLEX. Adding that I don't have that much time to play, and RL always coming first, PVE is ideal to relax after a day of work.

My rewards are the stories I live through, the places I visit, and a character that slowly gets better.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:20:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Joan Avon on 25/07/2011 17:21:06
Originally by: Nth Ares


You only have to grind more if you buy your ships and mods from highsec producers. No one is forcing you to get your equipment in Jita. You have the option of creating an alternate economy in nullsec. If anything I think this should be encouraged.

Work with like minded people in your corp or alliance. Set up PI, mining, and industry chains in nullsec to produce all the ships and fittings you need to PvP... get them to charge "fair" rates or work out a barter system. Maybe have it work as a communal system - from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs. Just do it without anyone setting foot in highsec, maybe you'll find happiness in this.


But that would be carebearing which for some reason loudly and vehemently decried by some "Leet PvPers" as the scourge of eve and the cause for the decline of civilization as we know it.

Plus allegedly it's boring, feminine, and sufficient reason to harass someone doing it to the nth degree.

DaalBaak
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:22:00 - [83]
 

Not sure about all of this inflation jibber-jabber, but going back to the OP:

I play (carebear) for the social aspect. Basically, think Oblivioin in space with a chat window open to other people playing the same game.

To me, the hardcore PvPers would prefer a space arena with an NPC market and some kind of time-accrual of isk.

Obviously there are likely thousands of shades in between, but that's where I see the 'hardcore' carebears and the 'hardcore' PvPers.


Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:36:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Fearless Worthless
Firstly defining carebears: someone who doesn't seek pvp at all.



Always amusing when a person's initial premise, indeed very first sentence, is wrong.

Better question: how can people enjoy staring at a gate and killing people who can't fight back? Pathetic.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:47:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Narisa Bithon
...CCP want new blood not scare them away...


As I wrote in another thread - if that's the case, why does all of their marketing contribute against the PvE aspect of this game and focus on Alliance/end game content?

If they wanted more 'bears, they would promote the game accordingly - but they don't so they won't.

They day I see a video from CCP about running missions, I'll STFU.

AK

Kin Netics
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:58:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Kunming


Im not stupid



Anyone with a name like yours can't be taken seriously

Kin Netics
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:10:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Joan Avon
Originally by: Kunming

If you pump currency into the system, and dont take it out as fast, the currency will be worth less, which means everyone has to grind more. Why is this so difficult to grasp?



If you pull currency out of the system and don't put it in as fast, The currency will be worth More but incomes will be less. so everyone has to grind more to get the same amount. Why is this so difficult to grasp?




Both of these statements work and both apply to this argument. Also both of these topics were brought up in the 1st week of econ 101. I think the bigger obvious issue here is plex. If you bring inherent wealth into an economic system it causes the value of the currency to drop rapidly. Carebears and PVP'rs work in tandem with eve's economic system. Both support each other. Both need each other. Maybe try to hug the bear and /wave instead of suicide ganking his hulk?

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:24:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Fearless Worthless
I've run into a few people in eve that don't like the idea of pvp at all and I'd love to know what goals they can have in game and what can entertain them.


When i don't have friends online, i like to do exploring, which pays for my game time for two accounts and what expenses i have in-game. I use some time on running our research POS, making sure it has fuel and that our indy alts are producing and researching, and manage the sell contracts. When my friends are online most of the time we are running missions or mining, while drinking beer and being social on skype.

I'm sure we'll move on to more pvp orientated activities at some point, and have started to train for that, but at the moment i'm not bored with high sec and is in no hurry to move on.

Creegz Brae
Gallente
Megapol
OUTER SPACE ASSHOLES
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:38:00 - [89]
 

Personally I feel Eve is catering to Carebears and PVPers alike. Carebares just have to be careful. Carebears in WoW and any faction MMO also "love" the other faction and act friendly with them.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:49:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Their role is to f up the eve economy by constantly injecting ISK into it.

I'm talking about the true carebears, the mission runners. Miner, manufactoring, traders etc might be non-combat professions but they dont contribute to the ISK inflation and they are rivaling with each other on financial terms. Mission runners on the other hand dont rival each other and dont lose stuff, the LP store is hardly a place to sink all that ISK.

Missions should only reward LP, considering there are more mission runners than anything else ISK is subject to massive inflation every day.

Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



Mission runners are the greatest ISK injectors on the game?

Lol @ you.


I have done both mission running and anomaly grinding. I can tell you that both are comparable in ISK reward. The difference is that with anomaly grinding, you have direct ISK injection into your wallet. But to get the same amount of ISK out of mission running, you need to salvage, loot, and grind LP to get those faction modules, then sell on the market.

IF you are running missions just for the ISK rewards that CONCORD gives you, then you are doing something wrong.


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