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Fearless Worthless
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:44:00 - [1]
 

Firstly defining carebears: someone who doesn't seek pvp at all.

This thread isn't intended to be a troll. I used to play warcraft and I enjoyed PVP but I really liked the challenge of hard core raiding. I didn't do a ton of pvp (1500-1600 rating) because I was terrible at it and it wasn't very much fun, but the raiding part was still really hard but I enjoyed it a lot more... I guess I like doing hard things. I liked the order of raids, the "ready set go" and you have a plan aspect of it. The narrowness (and hopefully thoroughness) of the knowledge of your class...

Anyways, sorry about the ramble. I've run into a few people in eve that don't like the idea of pvp at all and I'd love to know what goals they can have in game and what can entertain them. It's pretty easy to just list off every other thing in the game here "I like salvaging because the beam is shiny" or whatever... but hoping for some good responses.

Please keep it clean, guys. :)

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:45:00 - [2]
 

I hear some enjoy chewing on rocks.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:48:00 - [3]
 

It's a meditative experience.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:53:00 - [4]
 

Carefully, obviously… Razz

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:54:00 - [5]
 

Their role is to f up the eve economy by constantly injecting ISK into it.

I'm talking about the true carebears, the mission runners. Miner, manufactoring, traders etc might be non-combat professions but they dont contribute to the ISK inflation and they are rivaling with each other on financial terms. Mission runners on the other hand dont rival each other and dont lose stuff, the LP store is hardly a place to sink all that ISK.

Missions should only reward LP, considering there are more mission runners than anything else ISK is subject to massive inflation every day.

Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:58:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



loose less ships or learn to build your own stuff... evolve or die

Hestia Mar
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:01:00 - [7]
 

How do the majority enjoy the game

Fixed it for you Confused

H

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:03:00 - [8]
 

Market PvP requires more skill than docking games, just saying Wink

Also NAPs and blobs have been considered carebearing for quite some time now

Technically the only thing that isnt considered 'carebear' is solo PvP and small roams everything else is considered carebearing even if it is PvP.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:06:00 - [9]
 

For OP, PVP in EVE is utter ****. It consists of shooting structures for vast amounts of time, waiting for something to happen and then few minutes of action (if you are lucky) that might be a huge lagfest. And if you have a fail FC (most are) then you also have to deal with his mongoloid rambling while doing this.

I`d say that despite EVE PVE being less than stellar they are getting better gameplay especially if you kill sleepers and incursions in groups.

catinboots
Minmatar
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:06:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: catinboots on 25/07/2011 09:24:56
Edited by: catinboots on 25/07/2011 09:19:44
Edited by: catinboots on 25/07/2011 09:06:27
Originally by: Kunming

Missions should only reward LP, considering there are more mission runners than anything else ISK is subject to massive inflation every day.

Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



I wouldn't mind that , i even think it s a good idea, or atleast lower the bounties on npc rats by atleast 50 %

but what about null sec raters they probably just as guilty as high sec mission runners

No serious, you ever tried to build a freighter on your own with 3 accounts, or get your own little t2 ships/modules manufacturing corporation,
It is relative alot of work and very satifying to see your end result getting sold

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:08:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Their role is to f up the eve economy by constantly injecting ISK into it.

That's the job of the 0.0 bots.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:08:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: baltec1
I hear some enjoy chewing on rocks.


Next time shoot the rocks with a mining laser insted of chewing on them. You'll find it's much more productive and you'll avoid those expensive denture replacements every other week.

Anyways.. There are a myriad of high level activites/sectors of eve that are non-PvP. Each of which could be the eventual goal in that field.

For example T3 and capital ship production is (with the exception of the much more restricted Super capital production) often though of as the pinnacle of the Manufacturing profession in eve. For some skilling up and making enough isk to set up a stable and profitable captital ship production business is the long term goal.

For Traders earning X amount of isk or cornering the market in an area and leveraging that into even higher profits and more expensive/Risky trading is how they measure their progress as a trader and being able to toss your weight around Jita and Amarr with the richest and most powerful traders in eve is their Pinnacle of the profession.

the are more examples for the Mining, missioning, Exploration, Meta-game, corporate bureaucrat professions in eve. Each of which requires a very long skill set, a mountain of patience and ambition and a dose of luck to get anywhere near that pinnacle of the profession.

Being a good PvPer is no more difficult or labor intensive then being good at any other profession in eve. The only real difference is that for some people every gain in PvP skill there seems to be a subsequent inflammation of the Ego and a wider detachment from reality. Often refereed to as "Leet"

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Their role is to f up the eve economy by constantly injecting ISK into it.

I'm talking about the true carebears, the mission runners. Miner, manufactoring, traders etc might be non-combat professions but they dont contribute to the ISK inflation and they are rivaling with each other on financial terms. Mission runners on the other hand dont rival each other and dont lose stuff, the LP store is hardly a place to sink all that ISK.

Missions should only reward LP, considering there are more mission runners than anything else ISK is subject to massive inflation every day.

Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



LP stores are by a wide margin the biggest ISK sink in EVE. Missions do still provide a large net influx of ISK, but they also provide a huge amount of goods too. Compare that with belt ratting or anomaly grinding, both of which provide rewards that are almost purely ISK.

Chopper Rollins
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:21:00 - [14]
 

"for some people every gain in PvP skill there seems to be a subsequent inflammation of the Ego and a wider detachment from reality."
Too true.
Well that explains about 2/3 of the threads concerning PVP of any kind, but mainly the ship v ship type, ie more personal.


DejaPeaux
Mine 'N' Refine
The Unforgiven Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:25:00 - [15]
 

I'm a carebear, and yes mining sucks, what I enjoy is the studying of the markets trying to decided what item I can manufacture next, trying to get the most isk per day out of my production lines.
Without people like me you wouldn't have no ships to fly, and no ammo in your guns.
Also without people like you. i would have no need to make ships and ammo.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:26:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kunming

Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end [H2}the more they PVE the more I need to PVE[/H2], allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



Wow, where to begin...

The first glaring soluton to your alleged PVE slavery is to simply stop losing your PvP gear and you wont need to worry about the price of it. Surely after such an illustrious PvP carrear you've learned how to not get blown up quite so often.

I still don't get where some people get this idea that Pirating will bring you mass fortunes. As if every time you blew up a ship it droped a can full of X-Type faction moduless and a large isk payment from Concord. If that were true we'd all be pirates Twisted Evil

Tell ya what, lets make a deal, i'll support your ability to blow up Mission runners/care bears freely if you'll support my ability to freely cut off and remove the supply of any ships and modules to the economy when and where I please.

Sound good? Very Happy



LemonSlayer
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:38:00 - [17]
 

Not doing any PvP atm so I can be considered a carebear, tho started just 5~~ days ago.

Getting as rich as you can get through acuiring ore, manufacturing, buy low/sell high ways is very satisfying.
Theres no other game with such a vast and complex economy so this is the right place to have that kind of fun.
Getting skills/cash/components and one of the biggest ships in the game is a good goal too. I seriously want to get my own titan and pilot it ExclamationCoolExclamation

PvP later, so look out for my cheap frigate blowing up your ships with 125mm autocannons YARRRR!!

Nth Ares
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:52:00 - [18]
 

I have fun in EVE by mining and seeing how much I can profit from that, doing the occasional mission, playing with different ships and fittings, chatting in NPC corp channel. I like the thoughtful discussions, the arguments, the joking around. I don't like drama and competitiveness. To me the fun of the game is really in the social interactions, not so much the blowing up other people's spaceships (more often getting blown up). I've encountered too much negativity and bullying behavior in that area for it to be fun.

Why should someone actively seek out PvP, though? What makes that playstyle so superior to non anyway? I find it odd that we have a special derogatory term for non-PvPers (carebear), but not for PvPers?

Let people enjoy the game as they wish without judging, better for all.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:57:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Kunming
Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



loose less ships or learn to build your own stuff... evolve or die


Is that supposed to be an arguement? Are you 12 or something?

Mission runner inject ISK into the system like no other profession. It hurts pvpers who then need to do more boring ****, and it also hurts new players who now cant afford stuff as easily. CCP stated them selves that mission ISK pumping is wrong and they might change it to LP only, and also there is way too less pvp than they would desire.



Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:06:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 25/07/2011 10:20:42
after long day of brain boiling, phone calling, transferring, testing, watching logs, debugging, compiling, debugging, compiling, phone calling, transferring........

i returned home, launched Eve.... o, some people in corp is still online. nice, we can spend some time to chat....

conversation window appeared. What? You need some money? Ok. How much? 2 billions? And how long for? 1 month? Ok. Here you are. Good luck with your new shiny Thanatos.

Other convo. What is now? 10/10 escalation for 150mils? Where? Oh, only 6 jumps away. OK. Throw a contract to me in station next system. Thanks mate.

...loading 2 more Eve clients. Fleet. Resupply. And 1.5 hours of shooting "red crosses" chatting in alliance/corp channels at the same time. and watching collection of Met Art photos from 2008.

oh. time to sleep. OK guys. Good luck to all. See you tomorrow....

^^^
this is one evening of a carebear's live. This is what i enjoy before working day end..... :)

Originally by: Kunming
It hurts pvpers who then need to do more boring ****, and it also hurts new players who now cant afford stuff as easily.

well. while "pvpers" mostly attack "bears" i don't see anything wrong with your statement. And i really don't bother with problems of pvpers.

After all: you have chosen your playstyle. No one forced you to became useless in Eve. You decided that your game is "blow stuff and grief people". So it's ok. Enjoy your poor live.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:13:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Joan Avon
Originally by: Kunming

Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end [H2}the more they PVE the more I need to PVE[/H2], allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



Wow, where to begin...

The first glaring soluton to your alleged PVE slavery is to simply stop losing your PvP gear and you wont need to worry about the price of it. Surely after such an illustrious PvP carrear you've learned how to not get blown up quite so often.

I still don't get where some people get this idea that Pirating will bring you mass fortunes. As if every time you blew up a ship it droped a can full of X-Type faction moduless and a large isk payment from Concord. If that were true we'd all be pirates Twisted Evil

Tell ya what, lets make a deal, i'll support your ability to blow up Mission runners/care bears freely if you'll support my ability to freely cut off and remove the supply of any ships and modules to the economy when and where I please.

Sound good? Very Happy





Lets say it is a sort of PvP (like market pvp) that mission runners gather and inject big amounts of ISK, making the ISK I have in hand less worth while he has more of it. Show me the game mechanic for me to fight back? Since lvl 4 missions were introduced large protions of 0.0 became totally useless.

Also not everyone flies in SC blobs like you.. I take risks, because its fun to have a challanging fight as opposed to the carebears disguised as pvpers who have risk free pvp and tell others how they should not lose ships, while hot dropping solo ships with carriers and the like.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:19:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Kunming
Why am I angry? Well the mission runners wanted to stay away from pvp of any sorts, well I dont like PvE content, and the more the inject ISK into the system the more expensive the items I buy to pvp get, and in the end the more they PVE the more I need to PVE, allow us to blow up mission runners freely then it would only be fair.



loose less ships or learn to build your own stuff... evolve or die


Is that supposed to be an arguement? Are you 12 or something?

Mission runner inject ISK into the system like no other profession. It hurts pvpers who then need to do more boring ****, and it also hurts new players who now cant afford stuff as easily. CCP stated them selves that mission ISK pumping is wrong and they might change it to LP only, and also there is way too less pvp than they would desire.





So what is it your demanding here? an unlimited supply of free quality PvP ships and fittings and the ability to blow up non-pvpers without consequence?

Who do you think you are?

Are you that lazy?

Is making enough isk to fit a rifter that hard for you?


Garresh
Minmatar
Opposite of Low
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:20:00 - [23]
 

Take this post with a grain of salt, as I started off as a ninja, and even still cannot and, even if I could, would not leave the ninja lifestyle. I love ninjaing, and I have a great deal of loyalty to the ninja path, even though I carebear it up a lot.

Anyways, when I'm not ninjaing or ganking in w-space, I spend most of my time in PvE. The way I find enjoyment is raiding inhabited w-space systems, or diving into lowsec and evading gatecamps and gankers to hit up plexes. I am not exactly the most social gamer. To me PvE is about going into dangerous space, full of hostiles, gankers, gatecamps, and PvPers, and managing to slip by them unscathed and get valuable loot, then make it back to safety with the goods intact. Obviously this poses a great deal of challenges...too small a ship, you can't clear the sites. Too large you're likely to get caught on camps or scanned out and ****ed up before you can warp out. Managing to get to 5/10 or 6/10 complexes in lowsec space and still being able to clear the site, while still keeping costs low enough to account for the inevitable losses is quite a challenge, although it does still have a PvP element in terms of being able to evade capture. I do the same in w-space, as I have generally kept to systems with class 3 statics for invasion purposes. w-space is still horribly documented. I am still trying to push the limits of what I can do solo without breaking the bank by spending 3 billion on a ship I'm going to take into nullsec.

Joan Avon
Amarr
We See Dead People
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:25:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Joan Avon on 25/07/2011 10:27:43
Originally by: Kunming

Lets say it is a sort of PvP (like market pvp) that mission runners gather and inject big amounts of ISK, making the ISK I have in hand less worth while he has more of it. Show me the game mechanic for me to fight back? Since lvl 4 missions were introduced large protions of 0.0 became totally useless.

Also not everyone flies in SC blobs like you.. I take risks, because its fun to have a challanging fight as opposed to the carebears disguised as pvpers who have risk free pvp and tell others how they should not lose ships, while hot dropping solo ships with carriers and the like.



Useless how? How does mission runners isk (as if ratting isk has no effect) make large portions of 0.0 totally useless?

What exactly did you plan on doing there that is ruined by missioners in high sec?

Perhaps you should look into a new way of making isk since whatever your doing now must be the most low paying inefficient and horrific beat in Eve from your description of it.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:39:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kunming

You're mad at carebears because they contribute to the isk inflation? Did you know that PVP also contributes to the isk inflation? But I'm guessing you're not mad at PVP becuase that is YOUR profession and what you choose to do Wink.

You need to understand how the Eve economy works before using it as an excuse to hate players that choose to play differently.


Princess Leiah
Gallente
Dansk Industri og export
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:40:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Princess Leiah on 25/07/2011 10:42:48
To answer the topic as intended. Ive been a pirate since i started eve (2004), i have allways recented carebears, because they were allways in high sec, and you couldent really get to them.
But as eve evolved and more and more blobs came, the fleets got bigger the lag got worse. It got harder and harder to find small scale pvp, which was what i played for, so with that in mind i gave up being a pirate/pvp'er, and i decided to try the carebear thing, and to be honest EVE have gotten alot of new aspects, one is that you dont have to worry with the stress, of actually getting a fight, you dont need to listen to a moronic FC, money is not a big issue, as you rarely lose ships as a bear, so all in all eve is a relax zone now, where it used to be a stress zone, where you had to organize roams, manage corps, corp members and so on. So all in all relaxing, chatting, producing, squeezing as big a profit out of a project as you can, is actually very rewarding. Off course it wont get the adrenaline going as "old schoold pvp" did it, but its very fun and relaxing to log in, and not having to care to much :-)

Solosky
Posted - 2011.07.25 10:59:00 - [27]
 

In other games I was hardcore PvPer. In WoW almost my entire guild had grandmarshal titles (I wasn't insane enough to fight 14 hours daily during 2 months in a row - only 11-12 hours - thus ended up with marshal title) - because it was free and easy. Same for Dark Age of Camelot - I had scout (sniper) probably in top 10 by kills/deaths ratio on Merlin. Same for Warhammer Online (fire wizard) - there I simply leveled off PvP instead of NPCs/quests.

PvP in EVE is too expensive and complicated for my taste - and too primitive at the same time (blobs for teh win) - thus I'm trading, chewing NPCs and rocks. And they are tasty.

Narisa Bithon
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Posted - 2011.07.25 11:02:00 - [28]
 

no such thing as pvp anymore in eve online.

its now called player vs blob (PVB) and player vs supercapital blob (PVSCB) and player vs defenceless industrial (PVI)


Agent 42
Gallente
RADIO RAMPAGE
Posted - 2011.07.25 11:09:00 - [29]
 

I spent the first year running missions and mining in high sec. I thought I had things figured out, ignorance is bliss. Now my main is full time pvp and the game is much more satisfying, especially when your corp knows what it's doing. One good thing about Carebear corps though is that the social aspect can be a bit stronger. During mining ops it was common to have everyone drinking, it's like huddling around a campfire with some buddies, you're not doing anything exciting but you're still having fun. This gets old, pvp is a lot more fun.

Oosel
The Riot Formation
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.07.25 11:09:00 - [30]
 

ive always benn a bear from day 1 mainly because i want to play the game how i want. if i want to mine i mine if i want to run missions i do and i do exactly as im told by pirates ie stay out of low sec and 0.0........

when ive been to 0.0 and low its just not fun you watch the daft dscan more than you do the pretty stuff and you always compromise on your ship fitting so thats why i go there very rarely if at all its just too much hassle unless you bite the bullet and either a)pay for alts or b)hook up with a big alliance and then do as your told but if you are in a semi active corp with low numbers high sec bearing is just so much more fun especially in regards to the time you have to play. ive not yet tried wormhole space but again while the dscan is currently in its poor state again i dont think ill be going there either


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