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Bodrul
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:25:00 - [1]
 

CM Storm Scout + Coolermaster Silent Pro 700W Modular PSU
AMD Athlon II X3 450 3.2GHz Socket AM3 95w 1.5MB L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor
MSI 990FXA-GD65 Socket AM3+ 8 Channel Audio ATX Motherboard
Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz XMS3 Memory Kit CL7(7-8-7-20) 1.65V Unbuffered Non-ECC
HIS HD 4670 IceQ Edition 1GB DDR3 Native HDMI DVI VGA Out AGP Graphics Card
Recertified Western Digital WD1001FALS 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 32MB Cache - OEM Caviar

costing 470 (UK sterling)

this is a build for someone else as a Budget Gaming PC (Run games such as eve, wow and so on)
any opinions good and bad welcone


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:35:00 - [2]
 


Too much wattage on the PSU, you don't need even remotely that much power. Video card a bit "meh". Underwhelming CPU, but then again, I suppose, sufficient.
Overall costs a bit much to be called "budget" - the equivalent of 766$, which even after compensating for the 20% UK VAT, that's still 638$ - the price/performance ratio is rather poor too.

Let me see if I can find a recent post...

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:44:00 - [3]
 

If you are on a budget, then you ALWAYS cut on things which don't directly impact performance.

You don't need a 1TB hard drive, you don't need 700W PSU and you don't need a brand name case. You might be able to shave off $100 by cutting back on these three things alone. Only remember to give yourself a 20% wattage buffer on your maximum power draw from your PSU, because you are going for a budget PSU.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:01:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 24/07/2011 20:46:14

Couldn't find that post fast, and I don't remember if it was UK or US, so let's just build a machine from scratch using UK online-ordered parts...

87 GBP GPU - MSI Radeon HD 6770 1GB DDR5
75 GBP CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 840, 3.2GHz, 95W, Retail (heatsink/fan included)
50 GBP MoBO - MSI 880GM-E41, AMD 880G, DDR3 2133, 6x SATA 3Gb/s, mATX, 1x PCI-E, mATX
42 GBP RAM - Corsair DDR3 1600, CAS 8-8-8-24, XXP, 1.5V
48 GBP HDD - 1TB WD Caviar Black 7200 rpm, 64MB cache, 8ms seek
35 GBP PSU - Corsair Builder Series CMPSU-430CX 430W, 28A single rail
20 GBP generic miditower case
= 270 GBP

CPU 95W, GPU under 110W, doubt the MoBo needs more than 50W, everything else together not more than 50W, barely over 300W peak power draw, so even that 430W PSU is a bit overkill, but you can't really find a satisfactory quality PSUs for much less anyway, so that one is good enough price/performance-wise.

Half the price, double the power Wink


Ok, ok, -42.5% price, double power GPU, one third more power CPU.


P.S. Meh, recycle your optical drive from the old machine or get a new one if you must - but these days, you can even leave it out altogether, you can get everything you want via the network.
14 GBP for that one, no big deal.
Still only 284 GBP for the entire machine.

P.P.S. You could get a diff. mobo if you like, one that supports Crossfire, for later upgrades, and a different PSU with Crossfire support, but, meh. Or at least "upgrade" the mobo from mATX to something a bit larger, but that's not really necessary.
For instance, this:
93 GBP MoBo - Gigabyte GA-970A-D3, AMD 970, AM3+, 2x PCI-E, DDR3 2000/1866, 6x SATA-III, ATX, Crossfire ready
45 GBP PSU - 650W Powercool 2x22A rails, Crossfire ready.
Which would bring the cost of the machine from 284 (with optical drive) to 337 GBP - still quite cheap.

P.P.P.S. And if you want, you can get a second identical 6770 in there (since everything else DOES support Crossfire mode), and it's still only 424 GBP total.

Still CHEAPER than your initially listed system, and almost four times the GPU horsepower.



P.P.P.P.S. And if you're really hankering for even more power, you can put a stronger videocard pair, or even more RAM, or a slightly faster CPU, a much nicer case or whatever else you like.
470 GBP is a lot of cash, and your initial system was a total rip-off for that price - performance was junk, price level was anything but "budget".

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:17:00 - [5]
 

AGP graphics card? ur mad bro?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:21:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Caleidascope
AGP graphics card? ur mad bro?

Oh, I bet he knows little about computers and that's what the local system builders were trying to shove down his throat Very Happy

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:24:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Caleidascope
AGP graphics card? ur mad bro?

Oh, I bet he knows little about computers and that's what the local system builders were trying to shove down his throat Very Happy

Probably. I was not there, so I did not see it happening. Very Happy

Dray
Caldari
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:40:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
If you are on a budget, then you ALWAYS cut on things which don't directly impact performance.

You don't need a 1TB hard drive, you don't need 700W PSU and you don't need a brand name case. You might be able to shave off $100 by cutting back on these three things alone. Only remember to give yourself a 20% wattage buffer on your maximum power draw from your PSU, because you are going for a budget PSU.


I would agree on everything but the case, the single best purchase I've made was a quality case, Akasa Mirage, I've never looked back.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:54:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Dray
Originally by: Taedrin
If you are on a budget, then you ALWAYS cut on things which don't directly impact performance.

You don't need a 1TB hard drive, you don't need 700W PSU and you don't need a brand name case. You might be able to shave off $100 by cutting back on these three things alone. Only remember to give yourself a 20% wattage buffer on your maximum power draw from your PSU, because you are going for a budget PSU.


I would agree on everything but the case, the single best purchase I've made was a quality case, Akasa Mirage, I've never looked back.


While I agree that a good case is a sound investment, it isn't strictly needed - so it is one of the first things you cut back on when you are on a small, strict budget.

That's the big problem I have with budget computers - you can get so much more bang for your buck if you save up some extra money to buy some quality components. A good case, good PSU and good cooling solution go a LONG ways in extending your rig's life expectancy.

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:06:00 - [10]
 

You can also cheapen up on the operateing system. If you have your Win XP key and are a college student you can get win7 for 30$

I have also just made an Intel/Nvidia build if you like those who companies



Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822136284

-$5.00 Instant
$89.99
$84.99


Recertified: EVGA 01G-P3-1370-RX GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
Item #: N82E16814130649

-$54.00 Instant
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card
$199.99
$145.99


CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 V2 500W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
Item #: N82E16817139027

-$10.00 Instant
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate Card
$69.99
$59.99


G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL
Item #: N82E16820231428

$64.99


MSI P67S-C43 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813130576

-$10.00 Instant
$104.99
$94.99


Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I32100
Item #: N82E16819115078

$124.99


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116986

$99.99


Total $675.93

Bodrul
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.24 23:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Caleidascope
AGP graphics card? ur mad bro?

Oh, I bet he knows little about computers and that's what the local system builders were trying to shove down his throat Very Happy


i know somewhat about computers ;)
and no i havent seen a local system builder :P

i will go through the suggestions and list new parts

also

remember assumption is the mother of all f ups lol



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.25 00:52:00 - [12]
 

Well then, you assumed you had a decent starting point with the one listed in the OP Wink

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.25 06:40:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Bodrul
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Caleidascope
AGP graphics card? ur mad bro?

Oh, I bet he knows little about computers and that's what the local system builders were trying to shove down his throat Very Happy


i know somewhat about computers ;)
and no i havent seen a local system builder :P

i will go through the suggestions and list new parts

also

remember assumption is the mother of all f ups lol




That's right. Take the person who showed you kindness and kick her in the teeth.

Good luck to you and your AGP graphics card.

Bodrul
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:49:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Well then, you assumed you had a decent starting point with the one listed in the OP Wink


true true, hence asking what people thought :P , i use Nvidia on my machine lol
looked at ATI as people seem to always say its cheaper and as good


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:59:00 - [15]
 

That used to be the case once upon a time, now they're about on par at similar price points, with some nearly-identically priced cards better or worse depending on game (or application) used.
It's almost a matter of taste nowadays, other than hardware support for PhysX (which is only available on NVIDIA).

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.07.26 13:22:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 24/07/2011 20:46:14

Couldn't find that post fast, and I don't remember if it was UK or US, so let's just build a machine from scratch using UK online-ordered parts...

87 GBP GPU - MSI Radeon HD 6770 1GB DDR5
75 GBP CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 840, 3.2GHz, 95W, Retail (heatsink/fan included)
50 GBP MoBO - MSI 880GM-E41, AMD 880G, DDR3 2133, 6x SATA 3Gb/s, mATX, 1x PCI-E, mATX
42 GBP RAM - Corsair DDR3 1600, CAS 8-8-8-24, XXP, 1.5V
48 GBP HDD - 1TB WD Caviar Black 7200 rpm, 64MB cache, 8ms seek
35 GBP PSU - Corsair Builder Series CMPSU-430CX 430W, 28A single rail
20 GBP generic miditower case
= 270 GBP

CPU 95W, GPU under 110W, doubt the MoBo needs more than 50W, everything else together not more than 50W, barely over 300W peak power draw, so even that 430W PSU is a bit overkill, but you can't really find a satisfactory quality PSUs for much less anyway, so that one is good enough price/performance-wise.

Half the price, double the power Wink


Ok, ok, -42.5% price, double power GPU, one third more power CPU.


P.S. Meh, recycle your optical drive from the old machine or get a new one if you must - but these days, you can even leave it out altogether, you can get everything you want via the network.
14 GBP for that one, no big deal.
Still only 284 GBP for the entire machine.

P.P.S. You could get a diff. mobo if you like, one that supports Crossfire, for later upgrades, and a different PSU with Crossfire support, but, meh. Or at least "upgrade" the mobo from mATX to something a bit larger, but that's not really necessary.
For instance, this:
93 GBP MoBo - Gigabyte GA-970A-D3, AMD 970, AM3+, 2x PCI-E, DDR3 2000/1866, 6x SATA-III, ATX, Crossfire ready
45 GBP PSU - 650W Powercool 2x22A rails, Crossfire ready.
Which would bring the cost of the machine from 284 (with optical drive) to 337 GBP - still quite cheap.

P.P.P.S. And if you want, you can get a second identical 6770 in there (since everything else DOES support Crossfire mode), and it's still only 424 GBP total.

Still CHEAPER than your initially listed system, and almost four times the GPU horsepower.



P.P.P.P.S. And if you're really hankering for even more power, you can put a stronger videocard pair, or even more RAM, or a slightly faster CPU, a much nicer case or whatever else you like.
470 GBP is a lot of cash, and your initial system was a total rip-off for that price - performance was junk, price level was anything but "budget".



Agreeing with you is becoming a very bad habit of mine but that is one excellent build, mate Shocked

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.07.26 13:34:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 26/07/2011 13:36:21
I prefer AMD over nVidia. I have two nVidia and two AMD cards and I can say I think the AMD drivers are more stable and work better than the nVidia ones. The nVidia cards crash from time to time for some reason, something I hardly ever have with the AMD cards.

Once upon a time nVidia were known for superior drivers but now I'd say that not only do AMD make better cards but also better drivers. People who say nVidia are better because their drivers are better or they make better cards forget that 30% of Vista crashes were caused by nVidia, the rest is a myth.

Edit: I get 300fps with my 6870 and a single client. The problem with nVidia is that you pay more for the same performance.

However, at the end of the day, it comes down to preference but don't just buy a card because it has Physx, it's useless and there are so few GPU PhysX only games it's ridiculous.

Zagam
Posted - 2011.07.26 14:45:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 26/07/2011 13:36:21
I prefer AMD over nVidia. I have two nVidia and two AMD cards and I can say I think the AMD drivers are more stable and work better than the nVidia ones. The nVidia cards crash from time to time for some reason, something I hardly ever have with the AMD cards.

Once upon a time nVidia were known for superior drivers but now I'd say that not only do AMD make better cards but also better drivers. People who say nVidia are better because their drivers are better or they make better cards forget that 30% of Vista crashes were caused by nVidia, the rest is a myth.

Edit: I get 300fps with my 6870 and a single client. The problem with nVidia is that you pay more for the same performance.

However, at the end of the day, it comes down to preference but don't just buy a card because it has Physx, it's useless and there are so few GPU PhysX only games it's ridiculous.

300fps?

You realize your eye can't see much more than 60 fps, right?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.26 14:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Zagam
300fps? You realize your eye can't see much more than 60 fps, right?

Two things.

ONE, while people would put "interval immediate" in EVE to test the limits of their machine, afterwards you switch back to "interval one" - which in this case, if he's using a 60Hz monitor, would mean he's only using the video card at 20% of peak capacity, and if the card does adjust its power dynamically, this can lead to a very long card life.

TWO, the human eye CAN perceive things even around 400 FPS - there have been tests with fighter pilots shown pictures of airplane silhouettes for only a couple of milliseconds, and they were still able to identify the corresponding craft.
What you are probably talking about is the illusion of motion, which actually comes even earlier, from about 24 FPS, but becomes indistinguishable from actual motion past 60 FPS or so.

And we can go on and on about other side-benefits of having the CAPABILITY for very high FPS even if you're not actually using it (issues of input lag, for instance), but that can get even uglier.

Zagam
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:06:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Zagam
300fps? You realize your eye can't see much more than 60 fps, right?

Two things.

ONE, while people would put "interval immediate" in EVE to test the limits of their machine, afterwards you switch back to "interval one" - which in this case, if he's using a 60Hz monitor, would mean he's only using the video card at 20% of peak capacity, and if the card does adjust its power dynamically, this can lead to a very long card life.

TWO, the human eye CAN perceive things even around 400 FPS - there have been tests with fighter pilots shown pictures of airplane silhouettes for only a couple of milliseconds, and they were still able to identify the corresponding craft.
What you are probably talking about is the illusion of motion, which actually comes even earlier, from about 24 FPS, but becomes indistinguishable from actual motion past 60 FPS or so.

And we can go on and on about other side-benefits of having the CAPABILITY for very high FPS even if you're not actually using it (issues of input lag, for instance), but that can get even uglier.


I didn't want to get technical on it, but yes. My point was contemplating the purpose of bragging about 300 fps, when nothing can display that fast. Its good, but definitely past the point of diminishing returns. Better to throttle the card back a bit and get more life out of it, as you mentioned.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 26/07/2011 13:36:21
I prefer AMD over nVidia. I have two nVidia and two AMD cards and I can say I think the AMD drivers are more stable and work better than the nVidia ones. The nVidia cards crash from time to time for some reason, something I hardly ever have with the AMD cards.

Once upon a time nVidia were known for superior drivers but now I'd say that not only do AMD make better cards but also better drivers. People who say nVidia are better because their drivers are better or they make better cards forget that 30% of Vista crashes were caused by nVidia, the rest is a myth.

Edit: I get 300fps with my 6870 and a single client. The problem with nVidia is that you pay more for the same performance.

However, at the end of the day, it comes down to preference but don't just buy a card because it has Physx, it's useless and there are so few GPU PhysX only games it's ridiculous.



Fanboy much?

Oh, and guess what caused the other 70% of Vista crashes? :P

On that note, references! References! Everyone can make up numbers on the spot. It's a fact that 97.6% of EVE players have no birthmarks, and it's a fact that 13.4% of people in Alaska own at least one copy of Demolition Man. See? I can do it too.


Speaking from my own experience about AMD/ATi and Nvidia: I have a 6970 at the moment which i love, but the drivers still cause some headaches. The multimonitor support is amazing (the main reason why i have this one), but overall the drivers can use some work. It happens all too often that i had to rollback to older drives with previous ATi cards i had to fix crippling problems in games, sometimes bugs that were fixed in previous versions come back in updates! NVidia rarely, if ever, has this problem, and their drivers are better optimized much quicker, where it takes a few months for AMD/ATi to get their drivers in a competitive state.


At the moment, choosing between AMD or NVidia comes down to a simple thing.

Multimonitor? Get AMD.
Single monitor? Get NVidia.

Otherwise they're pretty much equal where it comes to $ per gaming performance. AMD's run a bit hotter but otherwise the differences are negligible as long as you take cards that cost around the same. This obviusly doesn't go for dual-gpu cards though, but i'd avoid those alltogether.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.07.29 10:12:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 29/07/2011 10:14:03
Originally by: Zagam
You realize your eye can't see much more than 60 fps, right?


A 6870 @ 1000/1100 can put out a lot of FPS.

Originally by: Akita T
ONE, while people would put "interval immediate" in EVE to test the limits of their machine, afterwards you switch back to "interval one" - which in this case, if he's using a 60Hz monitor, would mean he's only using the video card at 20% of peak capacity, and if the card does adjust its power dynamically, this can lead to a very long card life.


I have a Zalman VF3000 on my video card, I'm not worried about temperatures with VSynch on or off.

Originally by: Reiisha
Fanboy much?

Oh, and guess what caused the other 70% of Vista crashes? :P

On that note, references! References! Everyone can make up numbers on the spot. It's a fact that 97.6% of EVE players have no birthmarks, and it's a fact that 13.4% of people in Alaska own at least one copy of Demolition Man. See? I can do it too.


Speaking from my own experience about AMD/ATi and Nvidia: I have a 6970 at the moment which i love, but the drivers still cause some headaches. The multimonitor support is amazing (the main reason why i have this one), but overall the drivers can use some work. It happens all too often that i had to rollback to older drives with previous ATi cards i had to fix crippling problems in games, sometimes bugs that were fixed in previous versions come back in updates! NVidia rarely, if ever, has this problem, and their drivers are better optimized much quicker, where it takes a few months for AMD/ATi to get their drivers in a competitive state.


At the moment, choosing between AMD or NVidia comes down to a simple thing.

Multimonitor? Get AMD.
Single monitor? Get NVidia.

Otherwise they're pretty much equal where it comes to $ per gaming performance. AMD's run a bit hotter but otherwise the differences are negligible as long as you take cards that cost around the same. This obviusly doesn't go for dual-gpu cards though, but i'd avoid those alltogether.


Keep telling yourself I'm a fanboy, it'll make you feel better. Funnily enough a guy who tried to troll bait me with this exact same stupidity got banned from another forum. You need to try harder because obviously MS numbers are lies, because you said so.

Multimonitor, the reason why people buy video cards. I don't know whether to facepalm or to shoot you in space, because that's pretty dumb. I didn't buy my 6870 to hook up 6 screens to it, I bought it because it was cheaper than nVidia and provides me with the 2TFlop of power I want.

Video card choices come down to price/performance and preference. A very good card for EVE is a GTX460, though I'd still recommend an AMD card, more performance for the money. Also he's still buying into that myth about AMD drivers. AMD drivers are no better, generally speaking, than nVidia's, the one advantage you have with going with nVidia is more control over all the possible options you can set but I bet most people don't care and just go with whatever has been preset.


 

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