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blankseplocked [Scope] In wake of Caldari victories, support for war reinvigorated
 
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Paul J Keating
Gallente
The Light on the Hill
Posted - 2011.07.26 03:18:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Paul J Keating on 26/07/2011 12:47:07
Edited by: Paul J Keating on 26/07/2011 03:18:55
Originally by: Richard Wensbane
Mr. Inhonores, if there's something I do not enjoy is running around in circles. Which is exactly what we're doing right now.

All of this, all these wars we now have to deal with -- CONCORD-sanctioned or otherwise -- are the direct result of a single moment, when your people decided to deny my people their right to govern themselves. Everything else is just drivel to me.

Now, I suspect you will want to have the last word on this, so please, go right ahead. I will not be discussing this issue further, at this time.
I'm just saddened and offended that you can't recognize any value in my claims, almost suggesting that we're fighting a war simply for the fun of it. As if any and all past transgressions, by both sides, should simply be swept under the rug. Without reparation or contemplation. Countless meaningless deaths...




The thing, Mr. Wensbane, is that the first war between the Federation and the State ended 100 years ago with a mutual deceleration of peace, why does that entitle the State today to wage an aggressive war on the Federation, and more importantly, on the innocents trying to earn a living throughout the Federation? You seem to then suggest that the war should not end until reparations are made. What's the exchange rate between grieving mothers and isk? Or between missiles and orphaned children?

Peace is not 'running away', and while it does sadden me to see so many in the Federation support the war I have no doubt their views will be tempered if the people of Harroule and Eseier are once again allowed their freedom from corporate greed.

Finally perhaps you should consider that unlike you, most of the people in this conflict cannot simply wake up in a clone bay when confronted with those 'expressing their views' with missiles.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.07.26 04:57:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Alain Octirant

You seem to like to pretend that your people live above the moral morass of the rest of humanity, but the hands of the Caldari are as bloodstained as everyone else's. Each race is as guilty as any other.



Specifics, we can has?

Or, as it were (as some like to put it): "Pics, or GTFO!"

(And, apropos nothing else whatsoever, what do the Mannar have to say about all that awesome Gallente freedom an' liberty an' sh*t? Yep, thought so.)

Katrina Oniseki
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.26 05:22:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Paul J Keating

The thing, Mr. Wensbane, is that the first war between the Federation and the State ended 100 years ago with a mutual deceleration of peace, why does that entitle the State today to wage an aggressive war on the Federation, and more importantly, on the innocents trying to earn a living throughout the Federation? You seem to then suggest that the war should not end until reparations are made. What's the exchange rate between grieving mothers and isk? Or between missiles and orphaned children?

Peace is not 'running away', and while it does sadden me to see so many in the Federation support the war I have no doubt their views will be tempered if the people of Harroule and Eseier are once again allowed their freedom from corporate greed.

Finally perhaps you should consider that unlike you, most of the people in this conflict end up cannot simply wake up in a clone bay when confronted with those 'expressing their views' with missiles.



I'm not totally sure peace was ever officially declared, only an end to hostilities. CONCORD brokered a ceasefire agreement between the State and Federation, but an official end to the war never really came. This is all strictly political semantics, of course, as hostilities were ended for quite some time.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.07.26 05:28:00 - [34]
 

"[...]why does that entitle the State today to wage an aggressive war on the Federation[...]?" (Paul J. Keating)

Don't ask me, I'm just a dumb Matarri savage in need of having Freedom and Democracy(TM) express-delivered to his front door, but I kinda-sorta think that having a Nyx driven into one of your leading MegaCorps' home-stations, killing ca. 600,000 people, whilst the head of that MegaCorp was trying to promote detente between your peoples might just...oh, I dunno...unhinge a person? Maybe just a little?

I dunno, just a thought.

(If it matters: Supporter of Caldari/Matarri detente, and damned proud of it, here. We have more in common than hard-liners on both sides would care to admit, methinks...Not least of all a certain looming spectre of cultural imperialism that refuses to go away, and uses certain organically-shaped ships.)

Paul J Keating
Gallente
The Light on the Hill
Posted - 2011.07.26 05:46:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
"[...]why does that entitle the State today to wage an aggressive war on the Federation[...]?" (Paul J. Keating)

Don't ask me, I'm just a dumb Matarri savage in need of having Freedom and Democracy(TM) express-delivered to his front door, but I kinda-sorta think that having a Nyx driven into one of your leading MegaCorps' home-stations, killing ca. 600,000 people, whilst the head of that MegaCorp was trying to promote detente between your peoples might just...oh, I dunno...unhinge a person? Maybe just a little?



Admiral Noir was, as far as anyone can tell, acting alone in his attack on the Ishukone Corporation station, the Federation did not support nor sponsor such an atrocity. Of course if you truly believe that such acts by deranged individuals justify an invasion then do you think the Federation attack on Luminaire VII following the bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenor was just? I think you'll agree with me when I say that neither incident justifies the deaths of untold millions to satisfy the warmongers in our galaxy.

Alain Octirant
Gallente
Federal Nationalist Party
Posted - 2011.07.26 08:01:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm

Specifics, we can has?

Or, as it were (as some like to put it): "Pics, or GTFO!"

(And, apropos nothing else whatsoever, what do the Mannar have to say about all that awesome Gallente freedom an' liberty an' sh*t? Yep, thought so.)


I'm not quite sure which education system it was that failed you, but you have my sympathies.

Chell Charon
Posted - 2011.07.26 09:40:00 - [37]
 

Anybody else notice that the Gallante are all concerned about civilian lives and their right to rule the areas where they live (civilians that is).

But only when Caldari militia forces them on the defencive?

ps. I haven't been paying attention, is Federation still mistreating POW's?


Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.07.26 10:22:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Alain Octirant

I'm not quite sure which education system it was that failed you, but you have my sympathies.


The one rather closely based on yours, if memory servesWink...


Paul J Keating
Gallente
The Light on the Hill
Posted - 2011.07.26 10:23:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Chell Charon
Anybody else notice that the Gallante are all concerned about civilian lives and their right to rule the areas where they live (civilians that is).

But only when Caldari militia forces them on the defencive?

ps. I haven't been paying attention, is Federation still mistreating POW's?



I can assure you I, and many others deplore any actions which lead to the suffering of the average person no matter the cause. And yes it's likely that crimes are being committed by Federation personnel, and when they are found out they should be prosecuted to full extent of the law; but if you think that only one side in a brutal war is capable of committing crimes against the other you should perhaps attend history classes at one of the Federation's many fine higher learning institutes.


Alain Octirant
Gallente
Federal Nationalist Party
Posted - 2011.07.26 10:52:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
The one rather closely based on yours, if memory serves.


I can't say I ever remember owning an education system, but if I did, I would certainly teach people to spell words like:

Originally by: Chell Charon
Gallante...defencive


As well as basic syntax and paragraph structure.

I think the National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime might sponsor a new educational doctrine for the masses: 'No Matari Left Behind.' Hmmm, I might go see my advisors and nut that out.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.08.01 06:27:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Alain Octirant
I think the National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime might sponsor a new educational doctrine for the masses: 'No Matari Left Behind.' Hmmm, I might go see my advisors and nut that out.


Hmpf...

Typical ethno/culturo-centric Gallente condescension, passed off as humour, deigning to offer us poor savages a diamond-encrusted crumb of your greatness from your lofty mountain-top of enlightenment.

"Oh, you poor barbarian, you're just not advanced enough--as we are--to know how bad you have it. Let us help you, so you can then take your place patting us on the back, telling us how awesome we are (our arms are getting tired, and our throats are sore)..."

Thank you, we can do just fine on our own, and many have.

Do you people ever mange to even make it out of your quarters, considering how much time you spend admiring yourselves in your mirrors?

Paul J Keating
Gallente
The Light on the Hill
Posted - 2011.08.01 06:49:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Originally by: Alain Octirant
I think the National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime might sponsor a new educational doctrine for the masses: 'No Matari Left Behind.' Hmmm, I might go see my advisors and nut that out.


Hmpf...

Typical ethno/culturo-centric Gallente condescension, passed off as humour, deigning to offer us poor savages a diamond-encrusted crumb of your greatness from your lofty mountain-top of enlightenment.

"Oh, you poor barbarian, you're just not advanced enough--as we are--to know how bad you have it. Let us help you, so you can then take your place patting us on the back, telling us how awesome we are (our arms are getting tired, and our throats are sore)..."

Thank you, we can do just fine on our own, and many have.

Do you people ever mange to even make it out of your quarters, considering how much time you spend admiring yourselves in your mirrors?


I wouldn't worry too much about what Mr. Ocirant says, the FNP is irrelevant, useless and immoral. The Social Democrats on the other hand can provide the burgeoning Minmatar immigrant population with real solutions, to some of the more common issues facing them today.

Alain Octirant
Gallente
Federal Nationalist Party
Posted - 2011.08.01 08:07:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Hmpf...

Typical ethno/culturo-centric Gallente condescension, passed off as humour, deigning to offer us poor savages a diamond-encrusted crumb of your greatness from your lofty mountain-top of enlightenment.


I would say something about you having the typical Matari chip on your shoulder about everything, but that would be reducing an entire culture to a simplistic stereotype, a hallmark of racism.

Originally by: Paul J Keating

I wouldn't worry too much about what Mr. Ocirant says, the FNP is irrelevant, useless and immoral. The Social Democrats on the other hand can provide the burgeoning Minmatar immigrant population with real solutions, to some of the more common issues facing them today.


Ah, Keating, you never fail to impress with your invective! I remember my old friend Prabeaux telling me about this new firebrand he'd seen who was Secretary of the Sociocratic Youth League and how one day he'd be running the Federation.

Save your quips for your peers, though, sonny, I've heard them all. This is the big leagues, now.

Paul J Keating
Gallente
The Light on the Hill
Posted - 2011.08.01 09:00:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Paul J Keating on 01/08/2011 09:01:05
Originally by: Alain Octirant

Save your quips for your peers, though, sonny, I've heard them all. This is the big leagues, now.


The biggest things in this league are your egos and the magnitude of the FNAs irrelevance to modern Gallente society.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.08.14 22:44:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm on 14/08/2011 22:47:31
Originally by: Paul J Keating
Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
"[...]why does that entitle the State today to wage an aggressive war on the Federation[...]?" (Paul J. Keating)

Don't ask me, I'm just a dumb Matarri savage in need of having Freedom and Democracy(TM) express-delivered to his front door, but I kinda-sorta think that having a Nyx driven into one of your leading MegaCorps' home-stations, killing ca. 600,000 people, whilst the head of that MegaCorp was trying to promote detente between your peoples might just...oh, I dunno...unhinge a person? Maybe just a little?



Admiral Noir was, as far as anyone can tell, acting alone in his attack on the Ishukone Corporation station, the Federation did not support nor sponsor such an atrocity. Of course if you truly believe that such acts by deranged individuals justify an invasion then do you think the Federation attack on Luminaire VII following the bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenor was just? I think you'll agree with me when I say that neither incident justifies the deaths of untold millions to satisfy the warmongers in our galaxy.


(Sorry, thought I'd answered this a while ago...Damned planetside wireless networks!)

I never said, mate, that I thought that that justifies an invasion, nor yet that I think that what the State is doing in this instance is right--it doesn't, and isn't, even inasmuch as for purely practical/tactical reasons (can you say: hopeless logistical nightmare?)--I'm just saying that there is a reason for it, that is seen by the State, as legitimate.

This being the case, the national will to mobilise clearly exists.

(Apropos--Can any Caldari State loyalists answer me this: Do you think Tibus Heth has...outlived his usefulness...yet? And if so, then what might replace him? I've been dirt-side for waaaaaaay too long, been out of touch.)

Aquila Shadow
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:49:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Aquila Shadow on 16/08/2011 07:27:29
Edited by: Aquila Shadow on 16/08/2011 07:27:12
Tarryn Nightstorm, to answer your question Tibus Heth has not "outlived his usefulness." He is the leader of our State, he has lead us from the pits of oppresion and has given us back our home world. Untill he stands down (or realy ****es the Caldari people of by bending over for the federation) we will follow him.

Aquila Shadow

Salditas Khardula
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:11:00 - [47]
 

Lead you from the pits of oppression? That has to be the most ridiculous form of Provist propaganda that I've ever had the misfortune to witness. The Caldari State was in no way or form in any sort of "oppresssion" from the Federation.

From what I have observed, the Caldari people in general longed for the return of their homeworld back into their hands and now they have gotten it. Tibus Heth need no longer to be in the seat of this dictator-like form of leadership.

Taronyu Eywa
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:43:00 - [48]
 

There was a great deal of oppression on the Caldari people throughout the State before Tibus Heth rose to power, and it wasn't necessarily from the Gallente Federation.

Don't jump to conclusions too quickly.

Aquila Shadow
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.16 07:30:00 - [49]
 

At no point did i say that the oppression was coming from the Federation, i was refering to the so called "caldari elite", the CEO's of most of the mega corps who abused the people of the State until Tibus Heth came along, he liberated us from them.

so like you saidLaughing...... Dont jump to conclusionsugh

Taronyu Eywa
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:52:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Aquila Shadow
At no point did i say that the oppression was coming from the Federation, i was refering to the so called "caldari elite", the CEO's of most of the mega corps who abused the people of the State until Tibus Heth came along, he liberated us from them.

so like you saidLaughing...... Dont jump to conclusionsugh


Forgive me friend, but I think there has been a mistake. My answer was directed at Mr Khardula, apologies I perhaps should have pointed that out.

Aquila Shadow
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.18 11:07:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Taronyu Eywa
Originally by: Aquila Shadow
At no point did i say that the oppression was coming from the Federation, i was refering to the so called "caldari elite", the CEO's of most of the mega corps who abused the people of the State until Tibus Heth came along, he liberated us from them.

so like you saidLaughing...... Dont jump to conclusionsugh


Forgive me friend, but I think there has been a mistake. My answer was directed at Mr Khardula, apologies I perhaps should have pointed that out.


Sorry for the confusion, I was directing that comment to Salditas KhardulaRazz

Salditas Khardula
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:30:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Salditas Khardula on 18/08/2011 22:30:44
Originally by: Aquila Shadow
Originally by: Taronyu Eywa
Originally by: Aquila Shadow
At no point did i say that the oppression was coming from the Federation, i was refering to the so called "caldari elite", the CEO's of most of the mega corps who abused the people of the State until Tibus Heth came along, he liberated us from them.

so like you saidLaughing...... Dont jump to conclusionsugh


Forgive me friend, but I think there has been a mistake. My answer was directed at Mr Khardula, apologies I perhaps should have pointed that out.


Sorry for the confusion, I was directing that comment to Salditas KhardulaRazz


Yes I suppose the edit option has its usefulness after all. Carry on, Provist.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:56:00 - [53]
 

What does either the Federation or State have to lose or win in "gaining" or "losing" a star system anymore?

Exactly, ladies. You are nothing but pawns of The Shadow Government known as Concord. Whom pull the strings of all the nations.

The agenda of Concord? I couldn't say, but you are not fighting for the State while serving in the Militia. You are not serving the Federation by serving in the Militia. You are serving Concord.

Yet the Federals and Caldari wondered why the Intaki want them out? Come on now, the assembly wants nothing to do with anyone but Ishukone and Mordus Legion.

Just leave and take the war somewhere else where the people want you.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:51:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Jon Engel
What does either the Federation or State have to lose or win in "gaining" or "losing" a star system anymore?

Exactly, ladies. You are nothing but pawns of The Shadow Government known as Concord. Whom pull the strings of all the nations.

The agenda of Concord? I couldn't say, but you are not fighting for the State while serving in the Militia. You are not serving the Federation by serving in the Militia. You are serving Concord.

Yet the Federals and Caldari wondered why the Intaki want them out? Come on now, the assembly wants nothing to do with anyone but Ishukone and Mordus Legion.

Just leave and take the war somewhere else where the people want you.


I do not understand how you can deduce the fact that CONCORD - composed of all of the four Empires and only existing because of them - by according to governements an emergency militia war act, means that CONCORD "pulls the strings of all the nations". If all the Nations can not agree or find compromises, it is the whole CONCORD institution that eventually explodes. The war is the result of political pressures.

Theories of conspiracy. Everywhere. How do they say ? Uh, down with that sort of thing ?

Aquila Shadow
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.20 11:20:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Salditas Khardula


Yes I suppose the edit option has its usefulness after all. Carry on, Provist.


You are just a bit ****ed that your argument is invalid Sad


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