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Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.24 10:23:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sieges
I have not seen a population drop.
I have.

Is there anyplace to find info on the weekly concurrent users average for like the last two years?

my forum/google fu sucks tonight.Embarassed


Here you go - you'll have to ask them how they average the All-Time/Year/Month graphs though.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.07.24 10:29:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future. If we get the other CQs and they still got the same lighting issues as the Minmatar one, I sure will worry for EVE's future... Sad


CCP at the very least have made a cataclysmic marketing decision. Years of hype around Incarna and walking in stations has been blown away by the decision to release walking around in one room under the name Incarna. They will not get the hype back, even when they do add content that does something useful. They should have released the last update with a "Guys this ISN'T an expansion" note.

Meanwhile, the lack of attention to gameplay will result in a slow atrophy in player numbers. Essentially skipping one release won't hurt too much but if they neglect spaceships for too long, eventually people who like spaceships will move on.

PS How tall is everyone going to be in incarna?

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.07.24 10:32:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Othran

Here you go - you'll have to ask them how they average the All-Time/Year/Month graphs though.


It looks like numbers of active users are from apocrypha expansion , EVE is going downhill , good job CCP.

We warned you.

Simplus Massive
Posted - 2011.07.24 10:35:00 - [34]
 

Some engaging metrics, analysis & discussion here as well:
Jester's Trek @ 2011-07-20 - Not all curves are pretty

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.24 10:50:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Darth Helmat
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future. If we get the other CQs and they still got the same lighting issues as the Minmatar one, I sure will worry for EVE's future... Sad


CCP at the very least have made a cataclysmic marketing decision. Years of hype around Incarna and walking in stations has been blown away by the decision to release walking around in one room under the name Incarna. They will not get the hype back, even when they do add content that does something useful. They should have released the last update with a "Guys this ISN'T an expansion" note.

Meanwhile, the lack of attention to gameplay will result in a slow atrophy in player numbers. Essentially skipping one release won't hurt too much but if they neglect spaceships for too long, eventually people who like spaceships will move on.

PS How tall is everyone going to be in incarna?


Yes, the whole "Incarna" name looks burned out. Could have called it another way, then wait to use the name until it was the "real" Incarna -or at least it worked correctly. This game has been lacking excellence for a long while.

Kamilia StarGazer
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:03:00 - [36]
 

TLDR Fps and Space sim are not what ccp knows and there have been mistakes made in the past and most notably recently.

It may never be what people wanted it to be.Ccp was/is reaching for a new player base both with dust and Incarna.

The issue is they are reaching at two player bases they can not attain because this is not what they know.

Fps games are at most a 6month boon then you have to come out with a new one or something fancy or you get pushed under the bus by Cod and Battlefield.They spent too much money on dust and it may only break even if at all make profit it is unclear at this time if its going to do well or not.


Dolls in space honestly who knows who they wanted with this idea?
They state they want this to be a sci-fi sim but is this what the eve player base wants? Some say no some say yes I don't have the numbers so I cant say what the majority wants.

All I will say is i am not buying dust and i have disabled CQ due to my computer not handling it alot of people will use it and will like it.


They made a lot of mistakes this year and last year lets hope they learn to stick with what they know we like blowing up space ships.

Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:20:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 11:23:08
I recently received an e mail offer for 5 days free gametime. Excited to see the whole WiS/Incarna stuff I log in.

After 5 minutes in 'the room' it became clear that there is no gameplay, it is badly optimised and disable it.

2 minutes later I check out the NEX store and find the hilariously overpriced items that nobody else can even see. I will never pay cash for this stuff so NEX is pretty much useless for me.

5 minutes later I am in space and encounter bugs with the Overview and UI.

I log off and decide to check out the Eve forums. After 40 minutes of reading nothing but complaints and various links to other gaming web sites that are in agreement with the players.

Then I get to the leaked CCP e mail and internal document.

I decide not to renew.

Edit: It also took me 3 attempts to post this.

Kamilia StarGazer
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:31:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Kamilia StarGazer on 24/07/2011 11:31:54
Oh my in my monologue i forgot to cover MT how daft of me XD

TLDR Nex is a joke micro does not mean macro and ccp got confused that we were upset.No clue how they thought it was a good idea?

as for the nex they have their reasons for it but it will end up only being used by rich lazy players that want show off their cash and that's what ccp was aiming for weather they say it or not.

I will probably never buy anything from it unless its something that is actually priced for what it is an internet ware these are supposed to be Micro Transactions they ended up being Macro.

We did not expect the prices to be high and they said little to nothing about MT before they put it in and certainly did not let us know it was going be a not so funny joke.

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.24 12:27:00 - [39]
 

Another G O D-awful thread.

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.24 12:53:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Kamilia StarGazer

as for the nex they have their reasons for it but it will end up only being used by rich lazy players that want show off their cash and that's what ccp was aiming for weather they say it or not.



So what part of the VANITY items available in the NOBLE exchange led you to believe they'd be cheap? Anyway they're still pretty cheap, as far as mmo cosmetic items go. I can buy them all for zero real life dollars. Between PI and datacores I don't even have to play much to get them.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:03:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Ku Feym
You're right about the expansions not bringing more subscriptions. CCP even admitted as much in one of those press releases/dev blogs I recall.

That's the reason they need MT. Their game is going the way of all the other failed MMOs that have to flip over to a free to play model. They keep rolling the dice on each new patch and either add stuff only the hardcore vets would care for or they **** everyone off completely with unwelcomed content.

Or better yet, sell EVE to Sony and focus on WoD/DUST.


Wrong.

Also someone mentioned EVE wont die unless they drop below 5k, thats also wrong.

EVE-Online alone needs 75k subscribers to turn a profit, thats what CCP mentioned. But it was never about EVE-Online, all the crap we see now is because CCP wanted an explosive profit on the market, so the current customers, who are the only customers atm, need to be milked hard to finance their 2 other games, which seem to be behind development targets and cause financial liability.

Expect EVE to suck for awhile, I hope they realize that PLEX and MT deal serious dmg to the ingame market and economic rivalary, which is the driving force in this game, in the long run.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:14:00 - [42]
 

Wow, it's almost as if new features do not sell as well as polished content.

They went the route of short term gains, they got their short term gains.

SHORT

TERM

It should be no surprise that long term subscriptions and activity dithers.

What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:27:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia

What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:28:00 - [44]
 

Purely from a marketing perspective, the videos they have released over the last few years have not increased subscribers to the levels that they should have done.

Although the videos they have produced are of very high quality technically and visually, they have been targeting the wrong people and as a result, the new subscriber sign up rate is not anywhere near where it needs or deserves to be after this amount of time.

IF they targeted new players for their expansion videos more in terms of content and appeal, they would get more subscribers - instead we get videos of end-game content with heavy amounts of Fleet warfare and massive conflict.

Most new players will have 14 days to figure out if they want to pay money for this game, and to promote this CCP videos show Titan's and 1,000 player battles?

Potential new players are more interested in solo-play - once they become a paying customer, that's when they will become more interested in multi-player/end content. As boring as it might be for us, new players need to see more PvE paths in promotional videos - otherwise they'll be scared off.

I think the marketing of EVE has had a personality disorder and seems to think they are making movies instead of promotional videos for a computer game. Back to marketing school - or they should outsource the entire department.

AK

Kamilia StarGazer
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:37:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Important Person

So what part of the VANITY items available in the NOBLE exchange led you to believe they'd be cheap? Anyway they're still pretty cheap, as far as mmo cosmetic items go. I can buy them all for zero real life dollars. Between PI and datacores I don't even have to play much to get them.


Never believed they would be cheap just didn't think they would be as high as they were and with the little amount of talk about them from the devs really hurt it.

as i said it was just going to be a show of money and that is all they where aiming for.

should have rephrased it to be Vanity Only items is what they aimed for and what they delivered.

All in all the MT is what you expect from a company wanting to go with the mainstream idea to the extreme Laughing

as well they should split the plex from aur completely imho make a interstellar kredit card to turn in for aur not a plex.

Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:49:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Important Person
[ Anyway they're still pretty cheap, as far as mmo cosmetic items go.


I have to disagree. They are far from cheap and the gaming press said the same thing.

Originally by: Important Person
I can buy them all for zero real life dollars. Between PI and datacores I don't even have to play much to get them.


That's another problem. New players don't have that sort of Isk and are therefore excluded.

How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve?

Kamilia StarGazer
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:02:00 - [47]
 

They won't and more then likely lost eve more players then it may ever have gained for it.

It was not a well thought out plan in any case it was not executed well and most of all will only bring marginal income if the prices where reasonable all around the board they would bring in loads of money from it but they won't and that is on them Rolling Eyes

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:06:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Important Person on 24/07/2011 14:19:12
Originally by: Booby Trap

I have to disagree. They are far from cheap and the gaming press said the same thing.

How will overpriced MT vanity items draw new players to Eve?


The gaming press ran around crying OMG $70 MONOCLE LOL without mentioning that it could be bought for in-game currency and that many, many players have billions of isk to do just that. Internet journalism at its finest.

Whoever said the MT items were designed for new players?

edit : Funny, I didn't see the gaming media making a big deal out of people selling unusual hats in TF2 for over $500 or their $50 weapon packages when mannco was released. How about a $2000 spectral tiger for WoW?

Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:24:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:28:34
Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:26:07

Originally by: Important Person
The gaming press ran around crying OMG $70 MONOCLE LOL .


Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.

Originally by: Important Person
Whoever said the MT items were designed for new players?


MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items. Your counter to that was that some people have billions of isk
so it doesn't matter if they are overpriced.

I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal. I thought it was relevant because the title of the thread is : INCARNA: NO NEW PLAYERS

Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.


Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:34:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:35:09
Originally by: Important Person
How about a $2000 spectral tiger for WoW?


What the trading card that sold on E Bay after previouly been given away free by blizzard? That's a poor comparison.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/18/world-of-warcrafts-spectral-tiger-sells-for-2000/

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:40:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Booby Trap

Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.


Really? Please show me where I can pay $70 for a monocle. Must be on eve's website. Nope.


Quote:

MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items.


Really? I thought they were quite obviously aimed at people who want to spend billions of isk on items. You know being VANITY items available from the NOBLE exchange. I don't know too many poor nobles, how bout you?
Quote:

I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal.


Maybe we could give all new players a free monocle, battleship and a billion isk. That would surely enrich the new player experience. I'm sure there are lots of new players who log in for the first time on their trial account and say, gosh I can't afford to buy that MT item, this game isn't for me, I didn't sign up to play spaceships.

Quote:

Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.


I think that Incarna will certainly attract new players. I don't believe MT should have any bearing on attracting and retaining new players.

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:44:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Booby Trap
Edited by: Booby Trap on 24/07/2011 14:35:09
Originally by: Important Person
How about a $2000 spectral tiger for WoW?


What the trading card that sold on E Bay after previouly been given away free by blizzard? That's a poor comparison.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/18/world-of-warcrafts-spectral-tiger-sells-for-2000/


http://www.wowtcgloot.com/

Look at how much real life money I can spend on cosmetic items in WoW. Shame I can't use gold to buy them. Nice marketing ploy though, we don't sell MT items in-game, only a selection of pets through the blizzard shop, but checkout our card game.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:59:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
incarna offers nothing from a gameplay standpoint, and "eve is real" is actually pretty embarrassing for an ad campaign push.

I mean seriously, CCP's idea of advertising to a broader audience is to market the game as a bunch of people who take video games too seriously?

Good job with that.


Why not, it seems to be the type this game attracts. Laughing

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.24 15:03:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Wow, it's almost as if new features do not sell as well as polished content.

They went the route of short term gains, they got their short term gains.

SHORT

TERM

It should be no surprise that long term subscriptions and activity dithers.

What's the saying? "One step forward, two steps back."


Errrr, it would seem to be quite the opposite actually.

Instead of putting tons of shiny bling in this expansion, they instead focused on putting in the bare bones framework for a new aspect of game play that won't really kick off until the future multiplayer functionality exists.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.24 15:12:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
All in all and beyond forum wars, Incarna has been disappointing people around and it's hard to come by someone pleased with it, and CCP's policy of adding shiny before cleaning the house may provide them rough times in the near future...


If CCP does not release an 'expansion' every 6 months they will be attacked on the forums for not doing so. If CCP releases an expansion every 6 months that does not have as much content as the most content intensive expansion to date, they will be told there is not enough content. No matter what they do someone will grief them. Its their job to make the business decisions that will retain as many customers as possible while bringing in as many customers as possible.

What path would you chose if it were you making the decisions?

Yvette Online
Posted - 2011.07.24 15:18:00 - [56]
 

The OP suggests that incarna as we see it today is intended to be the completed product which will attract players. This is clearly not the case. Incarna's most defining feature is likely the captain's quarters, which is little more than a test environment for walking in stations (proper) as well as interaction between EVE and DUST players. As neither of the final goals of the Incarna test environment have been released yet, I'd hardly say it's fair to criticize CCP for the lack of new accounts.

That's a lot like a retail store deciding to open a second location, and the investors demanding to see a return on their investment before the new store is even open. I agree with the OP that this had better pay off, but we were applauding CCP for slowing their expansions and "doing things right" a few months ago. Just be patient.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.07.24 17:03:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Yvette Online
Just be patient.


I attended FF '07.

What looked like heavy production of Ambulation complete with extensive lectures on clothing, animation and station environments turned into 1 room with no functionality 4 years later.

And this is from a company that has the equivalent of 3 x AAA game studio teams. Just 1 team can effectively develop an entire game in 1 x 18 month period, using the current game development yardstick.

In the current time it has taken, they should have been able to ship 8 fully completed games.

We got 1 room that broke the game.

Patience may be a virtue, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining - CCP is being laughed at by the entire gaming industry right now, the only thing they had left on the table was respect.

I love this game & community, but The Sword of Damocles hangs heavily above CCP's head right now - and it's justified.

AK


Yvette Online
Posted - 2011.07.24 17:37:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Yvette Online on 24/07/2011 17:41:01
Edited by: Yvette Online on 24/07/2011 17:38:26
Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Yvette Online
Just be patient.


I attended FF '07.

What looked like heavy production of Ambulation complete with extensive lectures on clothing, animation and station environments turned into 1 room with no functionality 4 years later.

And this is from a company that has the equivalent of 3 x AAA game studio teams. Just 1 team can effectively develop an entire game in 1 x 18 month period, using the current game development yardstick.

In the current time it has taken, they should have been able to ship 8 fully completed games.

We got 1 room that broke the game.

Patience may be a virtue, but don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining - CCP is being laughed at by the entire gaming industry right now, the only thing they had left on the table was respect.

I love this game & community, but The Sword of Damocles hangs heavily above CCP's head right now - and it's justified.

AK




What I'm taking away from what you're saying is that they've taken to long in development, which I agree with entirely. It's obvious that things have been mishandled and yes, walking in stations/ambulation/whatever has been way too long coming. However, I don't see the current "test" environment of incarna as an indictment of the entire project as a whole, especially measured by new subscribers, something it couldn't possibly achieve until it is in some semblance of being released as intended.

If you want to make the argument that it's taken way too long, I'm with you. But there's no way that this expansion in its current form was intended to be the big draw for new players. That is intended to come later, with walking in stations and the integration of DUST. You and the OP are making two very different points.

edit: speeling

Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.24 17:37:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Booby Trap

Yes, because the monocle does in fact cost $70.


Really? Please show me where I can pay $70 for a monocle. Must be on eve's website. Nope.


Quote:

MT items are for people who want to spend rl cash on overpriced items.


Really? I thought they were quite obviously aimed at people who want to spend billions of isk on items. You know being VANITY items available from the NOBLE exchange. I don't know too many poor nobles, how bout you?
Quote:

I made the observation that new players don't have that amount of isk at their disposal.


Maybe we could give all new players a free monocle, battleship and a billion isk. That would surely enrich the new player experience. I'm sure there are lots of new players who log in for the first time on their trial account and say, gosh I can't afford to buy that MT item, this game isn't for me, I didn't sign up to play spaceships.

Quote:

Do you think Incarna and MT has anything to attract new players? I don't.


I think that Incarna will certainly attract new players. I don't believe MT should have any bearing on attracting and retaining new players.

1- It's called MT. You do know what the M stands for right?
2- You are correct, unless you have billions of Isk then the NEX items are not aimed at new players. If they are not aimed at new players then their target is people who want to spend rl cash for an overpriced itwm or older players. Thanks for agreeing with me AGAIN.
3- As the thread title is NO NEW PLAYERS then I think it is fair to comment that these items are beyond their reach. I never said new players should get BS or billions of Isk.
4- Yes, you are correct. An MT shop will not attract new players to the game. So why are you intent on bringing up MT all the time?
5- That's where we disagree. Incarna , as it stands, does nothing

I don't care about CCP, Eve or the MT shop because I'm not reactivating my account. The reason I'm not re activating is because Incarna, as an expansion, offers nothing new.

ps are you yet another Zinfadel alt because you've only been in game a few weeks and you seem to be an expert on MT and IncarnaRazz


Meridian Siri
Posted - 2011.07.24 17:43:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Simplus Massive
Some engaging metrics, analysis & discussion here as well:
Jester's Trek @ 2011-07-20 - Not all curves are pretty


I think that this data puts to rest the "there's no evidence that logins are down" claims. They are; period. In fact, the two expansions have lost on account activity from expansion to expansion.

Started playing shortly before Apocrypha (which I thought was an amazing expansion) and have been fairly disappointing with each expansion since. I think that the dataset used for the analysis should be pretty fun to tear into, and seems more fun than logging in atm.


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