open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Ships>Gold>Thin air.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

Aldan Romar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.23 17:44:00 - [31]
 

If CCP is making me loose the stuff I bought with hard cash, I would sue them...

And again, vanity items have a double role of clothing and standard item - if worn, they count as clothing, and like colthing cannot be destroyed. If not they can be destroyed or drop like every other item...

So now on to the riddle of how to destroy vanity items - either catch someone transporting them, then destroy the ship (normal PVP-routine), or man up and blow up a station (the uber-PVP option) where they are stored...

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.07.23 17:47:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Taedrin on 23/07/2011 17:48:47
Originally by: CCP Loktofeit
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: CLONE 9


Do vanity items make a difference in combat? Does someone coming at me with a monocle have an advantage?

No .. so why should it matter whether they lose the item or not ... it's vanity BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE DYNAMICS OF THE CORE GAME. In fact, anyone who has bought a vanity item has already taken the risk by potentially committing isk to something that is non game changing rather than something that is.





Of course, someone with a Titan BPO in his cargohold gets no combat advantage from that so that item shouldn't risk being destroyed or dropping either, right? Right?


Attempting to tie destroyability to combat utility is an argument that fails very hard. Try constructing an argument that justifies vanity items not being destroyed or dropping without also taking away other non combat-based drops.


I normally don't post much, but I wanted to know if you could further explain your stance there.

The transportation of limited-supply materials and resources is a core part of gameplay. One of the biggest player comcerns about Ships>Gold>ThinAir (as the thread is titled) is that any design bypassing that process negates entire chunks of the core gameplay of EVE Online.

As I see it, a Titan BPO affects combat in the EVE universe, because combat is a persistent state. It did not begin when that ship was targetted nor will it end when one or both sides have been destroyed. Just as it is imperative to one group that the BPO reaches its destination safely, it's very likely that it is imperative (or at least desirable) to others to prevent that BPO from reaching its destination.

So, my perception is that the BPO does offer a significant advantage to one or more sides in a battle, albeit an advantage that probably will not be realized until the BPO is sold or the resultant ship fielded.

Would you be able to explain why you feel that wouldn't be the case?

To be clear, I am neither claiming that you are wrong nor stating that my view is the right one. EVE is many things to many people and I really am interested in your view of why you feel that either there should be no risk to dropping the BPO or there should be risk of dropping a monocle.



He was referring to an immediate combat advantage. Any perceived advantage it gives you in combat is a consequence of other things - such as you having friends in high places or because you bought mercs to protect you and etc...

Of course, he entirely missed the mark of what the person he was quoting was trying to say: Titan BPOs have HUGE impact on core gameplay. If they didn't, then why are people calling for a nerf to supercaps?

It would be ridiculous to think that a Titan BPO didn't provide you with a strategic and/or economical advantage over your fellow players. After all, a Titan BPO is the critical first step on the path to being able to field a Titan on the battlefield - which is something every young 0.0 alliance strives for.

Elisa Vilerum
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:00:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Important Person
PvP leetoid griefer tears. Yum.

They're clothes ffs. Find another bandwagon.


that's funny

because there is far less important things in game that have far less value or none whatsoever and give absolutely no game advantage but are destroyable,there is also far more valuable items in game as titan bpo mentioned that are destroyable why do shirts have different(game/immersion braking) status?

plex become destroyable because CCP didn't liked items with different status then the rest of the game why change now?

oh let me guess one player burn extra money/isk/plex and is deserving of special status is that it?

game mechanic need to be bypassed so that players can be hand held is that it?

how about no,how about you risk what u carry like the REST of game,don't fly what u cant afford to lose!

EVE ONLINE as it was for almost decade.




Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:01:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: CCP Loktofeit
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: CLONE 9


Do vanity items make a difference in combat? Does someone coming at me with a monocle have an advantage?

No .. so why should it matter whether they lose the item or not ... it's vanity BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE DYNAMICS OF THE CORE GAME. In fact, anyone who has bought a vanity item has already taken the risk by potentially committing isk to something that is non game changing rather than something that is.





Of course, someone with a Titan BPO in his cargohold gets no combat advantage from that so that item shouldn't risk being destroyed or dropping either, right? Right?


Attempting to tie destroyability to combat utility is an argument that fails very hard. Try constructing an argument that justifies vanity items not being destroyed or dropping without also taking away other non combat-based drops.


I normally don't post much, but I wanted to know if you could further explain your stance there.

The transportation of limited-supply materials and resources is a core part of gameplay. One of the biggest player comcerns about Ships>Gold>ThinAir (as the thread is titled) is that any design bypassing that process negates entire chunks of the core gameplay of EVE Online.

As I see it, a Titan BPO affects combat in the EVE universe, because combat is a persistent state. It did not begin when that ship was targetted nor will it end when one or both sides have been destroyed. Just as it is imperative to one group that the BPO reaches its destination safely, it's very likely that it is imperative (or at least desirable) to others to prevent that BPO from reaching its destination.

So, my perception is that the BPO does offer a significant advantage to one or more sides in a battle, albeit an advantage that probably will not be realized until the BPO is sold or the resultant ship fielded.

Would you be able to explain why you feel that wouldn't be the case?

To be clear, I am neither claiming that you are wrong nor stating that my view is the right one. EVE is many things to many people and I really am interested in your view of why you feel that either there should be no risk to dropping the BPO or there should be risk of dropping a monocle.



It is not about an advantage, or not. There are plenty of other cases of items in-game which have no appreciable value, yet still drop or are destroyed in the process of the kill.

The simple fact of introducing new mechanics that undermine the original core mechanics that the entire game was founded on has consequences for those who have been here long enough to know what EVE is/was all about.

Many people are able to convince themselves that those things do not affect the in-space part of the game and thus have no bearing on it. Even though these items may have no in-game *effect*, there is still an *effect* as to how i perceive the experience of the game as a result of those changes.

For me, the act of making those items indestructible, vanity or not, making them appear out of thin air, instead of player made, and making them so insanely expensive compared to everything else in the game robs me of my IMMERSION.

Without IMMERSION, in anything that you are doing, you remove the whole point of the process. With these changes i am no longer able to suspend my disbelief. Everytime i log in and see that icon in the station view, for me, is like a camera crew popping up in the background of the movie i am trying to watch. It has the effect of reminding me that what i am doing is not real, and ultimately, pointless.

In other words, i no longer believe what i do in-game matters anymore.

CLONE 9
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:15:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Phil MacMannon


In other words, i no longer believe what i do in-game matters anymore.


.....because someone wears a monocle that you can't destroy. Rolling Eyes


Revajin
Gallente
15 Minute Outliers
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:19:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CLONE 9
Originally by: Phil MacMannon


In other words, i no longer believe what i do in-game matters anymore.


.....because someone wears a monocle that you can't destroy. Rolling Eyes




A monocle that most of these protester alts insisted they would never care about, think about, or give the time of day to before since it doesn't impact gameplay. They're just upset because they were wrong and the protest essentially solved nothing and now they need something else to complain about.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:09:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Aldan Romar
If CCP is making me loose the stuff I bought with hard cash, I would sue them...

And again, vanity items have a double role of clothing and standard item - if worn, they count as clothing, and like colthing cannot be destroyed. If not they can be destroyed or drop like every other item...

So now on to the riddle of how to destroy vanity items - either catch someone transporting them, then destroy the ship (normal PVP-routine), or man up and blow up a station (the uber-PVP option) where they are stored...


Good luck trying to sue them, have you seen anyone even give that thought a glance when they dropped or had plex destroyed?

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:18:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Elisa Vilerum
Originally by: Important Person
PvP leetoid griefer tears. Yum.

They're clothes ffs. Find another bandwagon.


that's funny

because there is far less important things in game that have far less value or none whatsoever and give absolutely no game advantage but are destroyable,there is also far more valuable items in game as titan bpo mentioned that are destroyable why do shirts have different(game/immersion braking) status?

plex become destroyable because CCP didn't liked items with different status then the rest of the game why change now?

oh let me guess one player burn extra money/isk/plex and is deserving of special status is that it?

game mechanic need to be bypassed so that players can be hand held is that it?

how about no,how about you risk what u carry like the REST of game,don't fly what u cant afford to lose!

EVE ONLINE as it was for almost decade.






Bawwwww.

I'm sorry your game is ruined because someone has a cosmetic item you can't take away from them. Go flip some cans and get over it.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:26:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Aldan Romar
If CCP is making me loose the stuff I bought with hard cash, I would sue them...



Lol...sue...yeah, good luck with that (read the EULA and TOS closely). Just don't be a moron and fly around with PLEX in your cargo.

Mekkimaru
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:35:00 - [40]
 

Before monocles, my character used to have clothing. If I were to get podded, my clothes wouldn't drop; why should it now?

All I see is people arguing about how they cant destroy monocle/etc. Well, you couldn't destroy your original(non NeX shop) clothes either, so whats the problem?

If monocles get dropped, should the default clothing become become dropped as well?....*looks at character*.....on second thought, I'll join the trolls, LET ALL CLOTHING BE DROPPED ONCE PODDED

Elisa Vilerum
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:39:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Elisa Vilerum on 23/07/2011 19:40:45
Edited by: Elisa Vilerum on 23/07/2011 19:39:54
Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Elisa Vilerum
Originally by: Important Person
PvP leetoid griefer tears. Yum.

They're clothes ffs. Find another bandwagon.


that's funny

because there is far less important things in game that have far less value or none whatsoever and give absolutely no game advantage but are destroyable,there is also far more valuable items in game as titan bpo mentioned that are destroyable why do shirts have different(game/immersion braking) status?

plex become destroyable because CCP didn't liked items with different status then the rest of the game why change now?

oh let me guess one player burn extra money/isk/plex and is deserving of special status is that it?

game mechanic need to be bypassed so that players can be hand held is that it?

how about no,how about you risk what u carry like the REST of game,don't fly what u cant afford to lose!

EVE ONLINE as it was for almost decade.






Bawwwww.

I'm sorry your game is ruined because someone has a cosmetic item you can't take away from them. Go flip some cans and get over it.


It is not ruined and i don't claim it is,i am against game/immersion breaking items in MMORPG.

so how about you try to read posts and then try to spawn crap out of your mouth it might even make sense and not be under bridge trolling MK?

edit:
explicit amount of typos.

Catheryn Martobi
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:44:00 - [42]
 

Considering the isk value of the items I better sure as hell get an unlimited warranty with it. In my mind, this is how it should work:

People who purchase NEX store items get the item and an unlimited warranty making it available in any station they dock at, and if it is DESTROYED they get a new one (to prevent people giving away copies). Also, you don't wear the items in your pod, so they only way it would be destroyed is if it is in your cargo. But if it's dropped then your **** out of luck.

Actually, this is kind of hard isn't it?

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:44:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Aldan Romar
If CCP is making me loose the stuff I bought with hard cash, I would sue them...


Ever bought a PLEX with RL money?

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:52:00 - [44]
 

I go out and I buy a CNR and complex booster/bcu's. I take risk every time I undock, but have the potential to make money.

I go out and I buy a Monocle. I take no risk when I undock, but have zero potential to make income from the monocle.

"Blah blah blah the Dev's are terrible at balancing this and that and the other thing", I hear it every day. When they get the balance working as intended people still cry. Yes, it is both balanced, and working as intended.

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:02:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Mekkimaru
Before monocles, my character used to have clothing. If I were to get podded, my clothes wouldn't drop; why should it now?

All I see is people arguing about how they cant destroy monocle/etc. Well, you couldn't destroy your original(non NeX shop) clothes either, so whats the problem?

If monocles get dropped, should the default clothing become become dropped as well?....*looks at character*.....on second thought, I'll join the trolls, LET ALL CLOTHING BE DROPPED ONCE PODDED


As i stated in several other post, and CCP never bothered and can simply explain this with a basic common sense gameplay perspective (and you can use this explanation if wish from now on CCP)

If and big IF everytime someone it's podded the game must do an extra check to see if there is an equipped cloth piece, plus the let's load now the character graphics, remove the monocle make a new snapshot to show the new clones with the default (non equipped ones or just sent the player to character recustom screen) then save the pic and actualize it.
That should bring LAG and MAJOR CODING TROUBLES for a lot of stupid and innecesary steps just to keep the sake of innmersion/destructible options ingame for something absolutely non game-changing in the spaceship part of the game.

Hencefort CCP doesn't want to get extra reasons to trouble your's SPACESHIPS in SPACE and want to keep the game the most stable for your daily flying needs.

P.S: now consider this way of action means, less PLEX usage and therefore less need to get and make more and more PLEX to keep the vanity advantage, thus CCP actually supporting the wannabe play for free whinners about PLEX prices raising, and negating to themselves the now so public and official status on the forums of CCP attempt to get as many cash from the playerbase as possible.

TL,DR : CCP actions with vanity items actually have little to no difference in their attempts to gather as many money as possible from the playerbase, just the opposite all the wannabe troll forums claim without proofs.

Cyzin Jita
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:17:00 - [46]
 

Take a shower and buy some new clothes you filthy peasant scum Laughing

Aldan Romar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:24:00 - [47]
 

Whoa, just illustrating that I would see vanity items on another scale than any other pixelated item...

I fell that vanity items are very much like PLEX - both initially cost real money, both can be exchanged for ingame cash, both can be used within a safe environment (either be worn or be converted within station), and only in special situations need to be transported.

PLEX usually don't need to be transported to be used for their intended effect, so don't need to be put at risk to be useful.

Vanity items need to be worn for their intedned effect, so if vanity items were destroyable while worn that would deviate from PLEX.

Mixne
Posted - 2011.07.24 00:09:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Elisa Vilerum

It is not ruined and i don't claim it is,i am against game/immersion breaking items in MMORPG.

so how about you try to read posts and then try to spawn crap out of your mouth it might even make sense and not be under bridge trolling MK?

edit:
explicit amount of typos.


How's this for immersion. Every single station has a NeX store in it. The stuff you buy from NeX is REALLY expensive. The reason it's so expensive is that it comes with a replacement policy once you "redeem" it (put it on). You get blown up while wearing NeX products, the NeX store where you clone is replaces the item for you under their free replacement policy. It really take VERY little imagination to make it fit. Also, pods don't leave wrecks as far as I know (I suppose I could be wrong, never been podded), so the clothes would ALWAYS be destroyed when someone is podded.

Cantryyp
Posted - 2011.07.24 01:18:00 - [49]
 

I don't plan on wearing a silk miniskirt that costs about the same as a carrier when I know I'm going to submerge myself in depleted cellular material. No quantity of Scotchgard would save it.

If you want to introduce destructible clothing for in-pod use, seed BPOs for shower caps and ear plugs. Even then I'd only need the earplugs when I fire tachyon lasers.

Elisa Vilerum
Posted - 2011.07.24 01:26:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Mixne
Originally by: Elisa Vilerum

It is not ruined and i don't claim it is,i am against game/immersion breaking items in MMORPG.

so how about you try to read posts and then try to spawn crap out of your mouth it might even make sense and not be under bridge trolling MK?

edit:
explicit amount of typos.


How's this for immersion. Every single station has a NeX store in it. The stuff you buy from NeX is REALLY expensive. The reason it's so expensive is that it comes with a replacement policy once you "redeem" it (put it on). You get blown up while wearing NeX products, the NeX store where you clone is replaces the item for you under their free replacement policy. It really take VERY little imagination to make it fit. Also, pods don't leave wrecks as far as I know (I suppose I could be wrong, never been podded), so the clothes would ALWAYS be destroyed when someone is podded.


first and foremost only non destructible usable items in game are NeX items and without any sugar coating,it is because of money.

as far as immersion go sorry but no considering price of certain gear in NeX is only shadowed by capital ships,and the way how they are "created" it just doesn't do it for me.




Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.24 02:16:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Elisa Vilerum
it just doesn't do it for me.



Does it for me. Bad luck bro.

Izziee
Posted - 2011.07.24 02:23:00 - [52]
 

sounds to me like the little poor kids got let out of school and are unable to bully someone for their pocket money and now come to the forums to whine about it like a little child because the only way their ever going to be able to afford such an item is to take it from someone, since they can't do that, it hurts their poor little brains and they try to make any desperate attempt at making a logical reason as to why.

No I don't have one, won't ever buy one, don't care for one and frankly, could give two hoots who has one.

Go throw your toys out your pram over REAL reasons. It's utterly pathetic

Izziee
Posted - 2011.07.24 02:25:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Elisa Vilerum
Originally by: Important Person
PvP leetoid griefer tears. Yum.

They're clothes ffs. Find another bandwagon.


that's funny

because there is far less important things in game that have far less value or none whatsoever and give absolutely no game advantage but are destroyable,there is also far more valuable items in game as titan bpo mentioned that are destroyable why do shirts have different(game/immersion braking) status?

plex become destroyable because CCP didn't liked items with different status then the rest of the game why change now?

oh let me guess one player burn extra money/isk/plex and is deserving of special status is that it?

game mechanic need to be bypassed so that players can be hand held is that it?

how about no,how about you risk what u carry like the REST of game,don't fly what u cant afford to lose!

EVE ONLINE as it was for almost decade.







"how about no,how about you risk what u carry like the REST of game"

Er. No. How about you stop acting like you have a say in it. You don't.

Izziee
Posted - 2011.07.24 02:27:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Elisa Vilerum
it just doesn't do it for me.



Does it for me. Bad luck bro.


Your lips do it for me.

Elisa Vilerum
Posted - 2011.07.24 02:43:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Elisa Vilerum on 24/07/2011 02:46:38

"No I don't have one, won't ever buy one, don't care for one and frankly, could give two hoots who has one."

your i don't give damn attitude is noted and highly not needed in the post where people give a damn.Rolling Eyes

i will stress this..i do pay for multy acc with money not plex and burn plex for items that i use for fun so im not sure what was your point as well.

but hey free to post hm..bye don't come back.

The Pteradactyl
Posted - 2011.07.24 06:59:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Wellfan
Can I point out the obvious.

You don't wear anything when in your pod...


So you have monocle waiting for you at every station you dock ?


I'm all for starting out naked every time you die. Should be especially interesting when walking in stations comes.

G 0 D
Posted - 2011.07.24 09:47:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Elisa Vilerum

how about no,how about you risk what u carry like the REST of game,don't fly what u cant afford to lose!

EVE ONLINE as it was for almost decade.





RAW23
Posted - 2011.07.24 13:52:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 24/07/2011 14:04:03
Originally by: CCP Loktofeit


I normally don't post much, but I wanted to know if you could further explain your stance there.

The transportation of limited-supply materials and resources is a core part of gameplay. One of the biggest player comcerns about Ships>Gold>ThinAir (as the thread is titled) is that any design bypassing that process negates entire chunks of the core gameplay of EVE Online.

As I see it, a Titan BPO affects combat in the EVE universe, because combat is a persistent state. It did not begin when that ship was targetted nor will it end when one or both sides have been destroyed. Just as it is imperative to one group that the BPO reaches its destination safely, it's very likely that it is imperative (or at least desirable) to others to prevent that BPO from reaching its destination.

So, my perception is that the BPO does offer a significant advantage to one or more sides in a battle, albeit an advantage that probably will not be realized until the BPO is sold or the resultant ship fielded.

Would you be able to explain why you feel that wouldn't be the case?

To be clear, I am neither claiming that you are wrong nor stating that my view is the right one. EVE is many things to many people and I really am interested in your view of why you feel that either there should be no risk to dropping the BPO or there should be risk of dropping a monocle.



Quote:
Do vanity items make a difference in combat? Does someone coming at me with a monocle have an advantage?




It seemed fairly clear to me, although I could well have been mistaken, that the point I was responding to was discussing direct advantages in combat not the broader sense of 'combat' that you allude to here whereby the term has such a wide extent as to become essentially meaningless (hauling provides 'combat advantages', mining provides 'combat advantages', refining provides 'combat advantages', third-party transactions provide 'combat advantages' etc). The question, 'Do vanity items make a difference in combat', seems to be directly aimed at the question of whether they give bonuses in a given bout of combat, not the question of whether there is any utility at all to the item within the whole system that leads up to combat and it was that claim that I was addressing.

As to the 'combat' benefits of carrying a BPO that you identify here, the same can be said of vanity items. Vanity items can be traded. A player can buy a vanity item with isk at one price and sell it for more isk at a later point. Trading (and transporting with the aim of trading) these vanity items can, then, earn a player isk and this isk translates into a 'combat' advantage on the very broad sense of combat that you lay out. Once vanity items are introduced into the game world they become part of the same holistic system as combat ships and Titan BPOs and this is one of the reasons that treating them as special items that are indestructible is problematic.

So, in summary, on the broad conception of 'combat' then, yes, a Titan BPO has 'combat' utility, but so too do any tradeable items that one might make isk from and this class of items includes vanity items.

Edit - In addition, one of the examples that you give seems to be based on the idea that combat may be determined in some way by people aiming to get a valuable BPO to a location and other people aiming to stop them. By making vanity items indestructible the possibility of this kind of interaction over this class of items is ruled out before-hand. And the reasons given by CCP so far for taking this anti-emergent approach seem to be purely commercial ones - so that people will form deeper emotional bonds with their indestructible vanity items than they would with destructible objects.

Saphs
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:10:00 - [59]
 

You do realise that in our pods were naked. And that all clothes and monicles would be left in station for when we undock. Watch the videos of people comming out of pods their naked.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.24 15:24:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 24/07/2011 15:26:49
Quote:
first and foremost only non destructible usable items in game are NeX items and without any sugar coating,it is because of money.


And I agree 100%. When you buy a dreadnaught with ISK converted from a GTC the dread is 100% insured for life. Same with any ship. You just file a petition to CCP that says "This ship was paid for with a GTC's" and you get an instant refund, and the petition gets the top of the queue. Don't believe me? Just go self destruct your most expensive ship right now and see.


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only