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blankseplocked {proposal} Add more Mindlink drops
 
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Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.07.23 04:39:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 24/07/2011 19:47:14
Hi all,

If CCP had a reason for doing what they did or someone can levelheadedly explain why this happened I'll revoke the proposal.

Basically with Incursion CCP added 20 more storyline missions. As far as I can tell there is a total of 1 storyline which is where most, if not all of the mindlinks in the game come from. This kind of skyrocketed the price up as it used to cost maybe 100 million isk to buy all five (10 million * 4 + 50 for the mining one). Now the mining one cost 380 million, which in comparison is the price of a capital ships skillbook and the other 4 total about 125 million at 47 46 30 and 1.

I'm guessing CCP did this to nerf mission bots or they just weren't thinking too much when they added the missions in to please the mission runners with new content. I wouldn't know. as my security agents always give me transaction data delivery, materials for war preparation, or a new one where you deliver lock breaker hybrid ammo.

I know this sounds like a whine about pricing, because it is. I can see the one nanite book costing so much because it only spawns in 1 a couple of sites, one of which is COSMOS, and everyone is fine with that as its how it always was. But right now CS pilots are getting screwed over for the cost of a full set of plus four implants for the combat links, and the mining link sets you back 380 to 450 million. All this seems to just be because CCP didn't check their facts, or if they did they didn't tell anyone.

It has been mentioned that they could have did this to make it so you need multiple CS pilots instead of just one good one to swap links. But that would be a nerf to Titans, Motherships, Carriers, Orcas, Rorquals, Tech IIIs, Commandships, and Battlecruisers. Thats one epic stealth nerf.

Thanks, Feel free to flame or support or whatever.
-Cyrus

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.07.23 04:59:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 23/07/2011 23:46:01
If anyone gets me the proper number of storyline missions that I should take into account I'll redo the math. I'm on dialup though currently and internet browsing is too painful to want to really hardcore forum warrior.

Here's the numbers to show why mission runners shouldn't be too ****ed and people who don't like the missions, but do love the bonuses mind links give should support me as if they were more available and cheaper more people would use them

I assume storyline agents do not have to give their division's missions as i have had courier (transaction data delivery) and mining (materials for war preperation) come from a security storyline which i got running nothing but security missions.

if this is the case I have had 3 different missions out of dozens pulled over my time. The two mentioned and one where i have to transport lockbreaker hybrid ammo. CCP said they have added 20 new storylines in incursion, and the one mission gives the mindlinks. This means you have 1 in 24 missions give you the thing for a 4.2 percent chance of getting that mission.

So if you were to follow long statistics and say that out of 1000's of samples you will ultimately be rather close to that 4.2 percent that means that you have to run 288 standard missions each time to get a link. at 7500 lp per mission which is easy to attain in low sec you get 2.16 million lp by time you get that mission. Everyone gloats they can make 1000 isk per LP. So you have at this point made 2.16 Billion isk off LP alone.

Following another statistical assumption the pricing minimums reflect that 380 / 47 mean that you seem to be around 5 to 8 times more likely to get something other then a mining link. So to get the coveted 380 mil mining link you would in the long run have to run 5 to 8 sets of 288 missions generating 10.5 to 17.25 billion isk from lp only before you get that good reward.

This puts your mindlink to total profit margin at 2 percent. Or for the mining link, 3.7 percent on the low end and 2 on the high end of the 5 to 8 spread.

I'll be honest. my math is bad so the isk values may be off on how much they will make. And I assume there is more then 24 storylines total. So really they most likely have to run more then 288 missions long term to get the 1 storyline.

Pick your TL;DR:

TL;DR missioners, for mission runners its only like 2 percent of your total profit.
TL;DR non missioners, Look how much they make, don't let them whine about taking a 50 mil loss on 2.16 billion made in LP alone.
Tl;DR CS pilots, Sucks to be us right now.

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 12:36:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tuggboat on 23/07/2011 23:50:46
seems the whole courier/implant thing is causing some inflation thats seeping down to the plex level. Have you looked at nomad implant prices. Its the opposite side of the courier mission equation. Agility directly affects travel time and the capacity for churning missions.

I certainly hope plus 4's stay affordable enough to pvp in them.


EdwardNardella
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2011.07.23 16:49:00 - [4]
 

As I am unaware of any bad things that would come of making these implants cost less you have my support.

I miss being able to switch out a combat implant for a mining one for mining ops.

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:45:00 - [5]
 

Yep, mindlink prices went up by an order of magnitude. Supporting a measure to increase their supply again.

oprime
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:39:00 - [6]
 

signed

Bo Kantrel
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.24 06:33:00 - [7]
 


ROKUTHEN
Posted - 2011.07.24 14:01:00 - [8]
 

Agreed

Madie Cesaille
Posted - 2011.07.24 18:15:00 - [9]
 

No.

Quote:
nanite book costing so much because it only spawns in 1 static site


and this seals it. op has no clue.

if you want free mindlink go do missions. few hundred mil for mindlink should be next to nothing for a guy who can use it.


Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:06:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 24/07/2011 19:12:08
Originally by: Madie Cesaille
No.

Quote:
nanite book costing so much because it only spawns in 1 static site


and this seals it. op has no clue.

if you want free mindlink go do missions. few hundred mil for mindlink should be next to nothing for a guy who can use it.




1. Post with your main. It's hard to take a five month old character seriously on this subject when you have 0 kills and are young enough that you could not even have the ability to use all five of the mind links. Your corp has a total of 1 kill you were not on. I'll also go out on a limb here and say that if you are a corp that only recruits Finns that play Minmatar with no SP requirements you probably have not had a lot of help learning about this game from corp mates. Though it could just be it could be there from before you joined and you left it.

2. I admitted to not knowing exactly and not being able to forum warrior properly or it would take me days. I do now know that the nanite control book spawns from two sites. One which is cosmos area based, and another which can show up at random in low or 0.0. And even with me being wrong on the location. That does not detract from the fact that except for the one bug, which was quickly fixed, allowed a level 1 mission to drop them for a while they have never had their availability changed.

3. Nighthawk and Damnation, which are arguably the two most used CS ships in the game only cost about 200 million and 180 million respectively. The implant to get it to do its job properly should not cost as much as a capital mod.

4. The links were excellent when they were cheap. You could swap them out quickly if you need to jump from one CS to another if you were going from say an armor fleet to shield fleet and maybe be out 5-10 mil if you were in a bad spot marketwise. With current prices you are either buying a new CS in implants every 4 swaps. Or you are telling your fleets that they have to wait 24 hours whenever they change tactics and need a different CS.

I'm pretty sure I do have a clue.

Tiina Turmiola
Minmatar
draketrain
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:12:00 - [11]
 

4. I think you pretty much figured it out now. links are good and ppl keep switching them like monkeys so obviously price goes up since they still can afford them.

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.07.24 19:29:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 24/07/2011 19:32:23
Originally by: Tiina Turmiola
4. I think you pretty much figured it out now. links are good and ppl keep switching them like monkeys so obviously price goes up since they still can afford them.



Thanks for responding with your main.

The price didn't go up though because people are switching them. People have switched them for ages. And if that was the case the price would have at least risen well before Incursion. It forces the assumption that either the price went up solely because CCP decided to add missions in and diluted the availability to the point the price rose 10 times from what it was. Or suddenly at the same time the missions were added, the amount of mind links received per day stayed the same but the amount of people using them went up tenfold. I do admit people fly around in CS ships more now, but for solo work there are things much better you could use slot ten for then a mindlink. Those are the extremes of the possibilities and the answer most likely lies somewhere in the middle.

I will give you that CCP may have done it so more people have to fly CS instead of just one person being good at all of them. But usually when they make a change that drastic to fleet tactics you hear of it from them in some blog that generates a threadnaught. As far as I can tell the only thing ccp ever said on it was that they were adding the missions.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous

Posted - 2011.07.24 19:38:00 - [13]
 

I'd like to see more storylines hand out mindlinks. Alternatively they need to be made available in the LP stores for a modest fee (10k LP, 10M isk maybe?).

Maz3r Rakum
Gallente
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.07.25 01:23:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Maz3r Rakum on 25/07/2011 02:42:34
Perhaps add each mindlink to the respective LP store for militias. That would bring prices down a ton. In addition to adding another ISK sink.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:26:00 - [15]
 

Compared to other implants, Mindlinks are still incredibly cheap relative to the advantage they give. They are also cheap compared to the ship classes required to deploy them with full effect (Fleet Command ships or T3s)

"They used to be cheaper" doesn't seem in and of itself to be an adequate argument for making them cheaper.

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.07.25 08:28:00 - [16]
 

I think the current price is fair apart from them mining one I guess. Maybe add another couple storyline missions which drop it (lvl5s?) but when you compare mindlinks to hardwires and faction implants you get very good benefit for relatively low isk.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.25 09:04:00 - [17]
 

KVA-2000: Adds +5% to the shield hp of one ship.
Market price: ~140 Million ISK

Seige Warefare Mindlink: adds +15% to the shield hp of 2-256 ships. Increases the power of Seige Gang Warfare Links by 50%.
Market price: ~45 Million ISK.

If anything, a simple comparison indicates that mindlinks are still considerably underpriced compared to their utility. Why should a mindlink cost less than 10% per point of bonus given than a standard skill hardwiring?

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:34:00 - [18]
 

+1, less monie for mission runners.

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:10:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
KVA-2000: Adds +5% to the shield hp of one ship.
Market price: ~140 Million ISK

Seige Warefare Mindlink: adds +15% to the shield hp of 2-256 ships. Increases the power of Seige Gang Warfare Links by 50%.
Market price: ~45 Million ISK.

If anything, a simple comparison indicates that mindlinks are still considerably underpriced compared to their utility. Why should a mindlink cost less than 10% per point of bonus given than a standard skill hardwiring?


Two I can think of. your standard skill hardwiring affects 1 pilot. I'll be honest, I don't really ask whats in my comrades heads but I bet no one other then the supercarriers run that implant a lot. I'm guessing supply for that item is low as the demand is low, but when someone does want one they are willing to afford it for their supercapital and / or 5 some odd billion x-type full officer fit mission Golem / Rattlesnake / Stupid expensive fit shield thing. So really your implant is once again my argument that a CS pilot to do his job has to blow the equivalent of a Capital Ship mod to do the role of a battlecruiser. In the case of the Golem or whatever that thing is a trophy ship. They want to stick the biggest, most expensive crap on there and have the ISK to burn to do it. Comparing a CS pilot wanting to be helpful to a mission carebear is apples to a steak dinner. Orange doesn't work cause as they are both fruits its still in the ballpark.

The second is the rate people pod CS pilots. In the jumbo fleet fights it is lower, but I could still safely say that its greater then they pod bs's or whatever as the enemy doesn't want the pilot to fly over to a offgrid carrier (offensive) or dock (defensive) and just hop in another damnation as you can fit a few per carrier and infinite in a outpost. In a little fight you always try to pod him as your gatecamp, roam, whatever is still going though there do to the want to screw over your enemies and drain them. with the exception of maybe a Claymore (CS), Huggin (Combat Recon), and Arazu (Force Recon) in the fleet where the claymore better be running the information warfare mod the opposing team will pod the CS knowing that if he wanted to do his job properly hes got at least 50 mil in that skull.

Arguably you could say that well the supercaptials run slave implants or things like your KVA-2000 and get podded too. I'd then ask you to look at a SC only pilot and ask how many times he gets killed and podded in relation to a CS, and also the percentage of their implants to the ship

Zombie Kenny
RDK Research Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:38:00 - [20]
 


Shadow Lord77
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:41:00 - [21]
 

Why not put them in loyalty point stores?


 

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