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Project Ecliptic Echo
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:38:00 - [31]
 

Sometimes the answers are right in front of us. The problem is that we are often blinded to that which does not fit our vision of how things work.

Perhaps someone is just trying to open your eyes, non?

The Antiquarian
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:39:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: The Antiquarian
I apologize for me being playful, but "pictures are worth thousand words." Do you happen to have any screen shot pertinent to this conversation, Ms. Jenneth?


You asked for a log. I provided one.

I do not have pictures-- and pictures, too, can be edited. You have the word of those who were present. If that is not enough, I will trust that you will, at least, remain an outlier in this discussion.

Your mistrust, consequently, is nothing to me.


Ms. Jenneth and Ms. Harendotes, I WISH I WAS WRONG! But I am trying to practice my professional skepticism here. Only if there is a screenshot of a chat log that shows that the "Awakened Infomorph" is "CONCORD Verified," then I won't have a single thread of doubt on this particular matter.

Also, how do we explain the relation between the Awakened Infomorph and the Caldari ship floating around Geztic? The Ship was there for over a year and 2 months. Infomorph obtained her pilot license 3 days ago

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:43:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: The Antiquarian
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: The Antiquarian
I apologize for me being playful, but "pictures are worth thousand words." Do you happen to have any screen shot pertinent to this conversation, Ms. Jenneth?


You asked for a log. I provided one.

I do not have pictures-- and pictures, too, can be edited. You have the word of those who were present. If that is not enough, I will trust that you will, at least, remain an outlier in this discussion.

Your mistrust, consequently, is nothing to me.


Ms. Jenneth and Ms. Harendotes, I WISH I WAS WRONG! But I am trying to practice my professional skepticism here. Only if there is a screenshot of a chat log that shows that the "Awakened Infomorph" is "CONCORD Verified," then I won't have a single thread of doubt on this particular matter.

Also, how do we explain the relation between the Awakened Infomorph and the Caldari ship floating around Geztic? The Ship was there for over a year and 2 months. Infomorph obtained her pilot license 3 days ago



Mr. Antiquarian,

I have personally known both Aria and Cdr. Baxter for quite a while now, and while I personally was hesitant to believe the initial reports I do not think that the Commander, nor Aria are the type to outright lie about it. Especially not to collaborate on a lie with others.

For that reason, I believe for the time being their word is worth the weight they put in it. Even if I inherently disagree with both of them at times.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:14:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 23/07/2011 20:16:30

Thank you, Myxx.

Antiquarian, I have no knowledge of any relationship between Awakened Infomorph and any other mysterious shuttles. That's a connection made by others.

Might I point out, incidentally, that "before an audience of dozens" is not a good place to try making up events. You tend to have witnesses. New Caldari is one jump from Jita; audience control is, to put it mildly, difficult.

Please feel free to maintain your doubts and concerns; they're probably healthy, and will allow you to plan and adapt. However, if you weigh the probabilities, I suspect you'll come to the obvious conclusion:

We probably aren't staking our reputations on an elaborate fiction that could come tumbling around our ears if Awakened Infomorph were ever to utter another monosyllable in public.

Mark726
Gallente
Inquest
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:32:00 - [35]
 

Those looking for more background on the shuttle in Geztic can find it here (my own investigations), and here (the investigations of my friend Rhavas).

To my knowledge, the recently discovered responses have been the first time anyone has gotten any response from the shuttle.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:37:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor on 23/07/2011 22:38:57
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Gosakumori Noh
However, it was reported in the Arek'Jaalan channel that there had been dialog, and that the Sleepers announced they were not here to help. Is that accurate?


The only public statement by Awakened Infomorph was a lone monosyllable: "No." It did seem most likely to be in response to a question by pilot Harendotes: "Awakened Infomorph? We need answers; can you help us?"

It might not have been; local chat was fairly busy. But that's what it looked like.


Confirming that this is what I saw, and how I understood it.

Curious Observer
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:25:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Mark726
Those looking for more background on the shuttle in Geztic can find it here (my own investigations), and here (the investigations of my friend Rhavas).

To my knowledge, the recently discovered responses have been the first time anyone has gotten any response from the shuttle.

Sounds like someone prepared a backup plan. How is this related to Awakened Infomorph aside from the similarities in shuttle type?

The Antiquarian
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:56:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: The Antiquarian on 24/07/2011 00:03:36
Originally by: Curious Observer
Originally by: Mark726
Those looking for more background on the shuttle in Geztic can find it here (my own investigations), and here (the investigations of my friend Rhavas).

To my knowledge, the recently discovered responses have been the first time anyone has gotten any response from the shuttle.

Sounds like someone prepared a backup plan. How is this related to Awakened Infomorph aside from the similarities in shuttle type?


Probably nothing, seeing how the shuttle pre-existed this event well over a year and half ago. I believe people are just mixing up unrelated incidents and hoping that somehow they miraculously correlate to each other.

We are getting literally dozens of emails over a shuttle that hasn't been proven that it's related to the "Awakened Infomorph" in the first place.

Curious Observer
Posted - 2011.07.24 00:31:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Curious Observer on 24/07/2011 00:31:14
There may not be a connection, there may be. Without investigating, it is impossible to know for sure.

The presence of new types of anomalous spatial rifts, coupled with other unexplained incidents, suggests that perhaps things are not what they seem.

Re-examining evidence, as was done by others, is commendable. Information was uncovered. Sometimes we can be so preoccupied with proving evidence is indeed valid that we forget to actually investigate it. Other times we discount such evidence because it does not fit into our preconceived notions of how a situation should be.

Sansha's Nation is changing it's tactics, and even their stated goals seem to contradict their actions. I do wonder about some of the evidence presented in SYNE's reports, and I further wonder why such incidents were not made known earlier. Given Miss Jenneth's testimony, I can understand the reticence.

So I ask again; after investigation of the Geztic shuttle, has a link been found? If not, there is one possibility crossed off the list. There is no harm in that.

Quote:
We are getting literally dozens of emails over a shuttle that hasn't been proven that it's related to the "Awakened Infomorph" in the first place.

The search for proof is a noble endeavor. Perhaps a more organized method of sharing information could be devised? For instance, who has the lead in the investigation?

What other leads are there to pursue at this time?

Harendotes
Posted - 2011.07.24 03:16:00 - [40]
 

Can we roughly summarize and boil the leads down?

1st. Personally I assume that the Sansha presence were indeed caused by Sansha Kuvakei.
2nd. The spawn of a spatial rift/unstable wormhole is as pointed/hinted by Awakened Infomorph NOT Sansha's doing.

If not, this implies Sleepers or something/someone within their organization or associates to be behind it.
Why? Are they tired of Sansha misusing their technology? Are Sansha and Sleepers hostiles to each other or allies?

If hostiles, does that make sleepers an enemy of my enemy and thus a friend? Or do they add to the pool of capsuleer hostiles in k-space?

Those are my questions.

Nausea
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.24 18:49:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Myxx


I have personally known both Aria and Cdr. Baxter for quite a while now, and while I personally was hesitant to believe the initial reports I do not think that the Commander, nor Aria are the type to outright lie about it. Especially not to collaborate on a lie with others.




While I can not speak for Cdr. Baxter, I can add that Ms Jenneth is certainly not the kind of person to fabricate things in the suggested fashion; if she says it happend that way, that is how it happened.

Paranoia and suspicion can be a fine thing, but in regards to this Project, I would like to hope that we can trust each other to stick to the Ethical Guidelines, and not fabricate evidence. Especially with regards to something this potentially interesting...

Helen Ohmiras
Posted - 2011.07.24 23:01:00 - [42]
 

Good Evening.

Perhaps identity of the individual in question can be ascertained by behavior noted by firsthand observers. This behavior could be cross-referenced with previous behaviors expressed by Infomorph entities known.

While this will not lead to unquestionable identification of the individual, it could lead to a proper identification by eliminating possibilities.

//Known or Suspected Infomorph Entities//
* Nikilaiki Ruutarhara (AKA Nikiruu, AKA Nikiruu-Seiryu, AKA Deceiver's Voice).
* "The Broker" (Various Aliases, current whereabouts unknown.)
* Sansha Kuvakei
* ??? Previously unknown entities.
* Sleeper Infomorph ---
* Rogue Drone Infomorph ---

//Known Missing Individuals Connected to Sleepers or Wormholes//
* Lianda Burreau Recovered files from [IDWITHHELD] indicate some connection to Hilen Tukoss, though this information is not confirmed. We suggest further investigation into this connection.

//Disclosure//
* I am the entity known as Nikiruu.
* We have previously attempted to trace Nation wormholes and Rogue Drone spatial rifts, the latest attempt being related to the Hebisa wormhole. Our intent was to reset local comms signals to the other "side" of the wormhole for purposes of downloading a copy of our consciousness. We are not able to confirm nor deny the success of this endeavor, as the copy has either been unable or unwilling to follow Project Ecliptic communications protocols.
* We never stalked you, Aria. We simply believed that you would be able to understand what we suspected. Our apologies.
* We have previously identified possible wormhole sites, namely Intaki and Promised Land. The reasoning for this is based on unverified "hunches" and on observed patterns.
* This is our last viable copy.

//Offer//
* We will assist fully in investigation of Wormholes, Sleeper and Infomorph entities, and spatial rifts.
* We will cooperate fully with all investigations and inquiries.

//Request//
* Full disclosure of information from SYNE and Arek'jaalan concerning Awakened Infomorph and other entities to be identified.

We have theories as to what is happening. They do not match current theories presented, and we have reached the limit of our ability to investigate these theories on our own.

We also do not wish to be the only ones to see.

If our assistance is not wanted, we will not force the issue.


NOTE: Color Identifiers are for clarity and distinguishing between separate lines of inquiry.

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.07.25 01:48:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Helen Ohmiras
Perhaps identity of the individual in question can be ascertained by behavior noted by firsthand observers. This behavior could be cross-referenced with previous behaviors expressed by Infomorph entities known.


That is a legitimate approach. "Hi Aria" and "Sansha did not do this" did not initially strike me as likely statements for a member of a long vanished civilization to utter upon a heretofore unprecedented entry into "our" space. However, the technological capabilities of the interlopers strongly implies something more than bored capsuleers at work. The informal, personalized language could therefore be a path to the speaker's identity.

To potential the "infomorph" list, I would add the bombastic Minerva, who should be about due with some dire warning about impending doom that ultimately tells us nothing; and, True Plague, whose tale of creeping horror was a guilty pleasure of mine during Nation's first re-emergence. I'm sure there are others.

In fact, though not particularly communicative, there is a humanoid preserved in cryogenic stasis floating around a star that apparently shares a type with those that exploded recently - not that one should draw hasty connections between mysterious shuttles out of time studying stars, cryogenics, and a civilization known as "The Sleepers" fond of solar engineering arrays and star bunkers.

Llyandrian
Amarr
Livestock Science Exchange
Posted - 2011.07.25 11:04:00 - [44]
 


I am reminded of an ancient proverbial poem,

Quote:
Welcome, youth, who come attended by immortal charioteers and mares which bear you on your journey to our dwelling. For it is no evil fate that has set you to travel on this road, far from the beaten paths of men, but right and justice. It is meet that you learn all things - both the unshakable heart of well-rounded truth and the opinions of mortals in which there is not true belief.

Ibeau Renoir
Colonial Fleet Services
Independent Faction
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:32:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Harendotes
She most likely responded to me. Why? Because me, myself, I and my alliance live in the wormhole where we spotted him on d-scan the day she received his license.
The odds for a pilot/capsuleer only a few hours old to be in our C6 wormhole after being shut down completely and no new signatures indicating a wormhole are extremely narrow and infinitely small.

Regarding this, have you been in contact with the Center for Advanced Studies? To the best of my knowledge all their new pilots start out in their Cistuvaert V station. It's quite curious that she apparently got her license while still in wspace, which I have never heard of happening before.

Harendotes
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:50:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Ibeau Renoir
Originally by: Harendotes
She most likely responded to me. Why? Because me, myself, I and my alliance live in the wormhole where we spotted him on d-scan the day she received his license.
The odds for a pilot/capsuleer only a few hours old to be in our C6 wormhole after being shut down completely and no new signatures indicating a wormhole are extremely narrow and infinitely small.

Regarding this, have you been in contact with the Center for Advanced Studies? To the best of my knowledge all their new pilots start out in their Cistuvaert V station. It's quite curious that she apparently got her license while still in wspace, which I have never heard of happening before.


No, I have not been in contact with them.

ShipSpinner
Posted - 2011.07.28 01:17:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: ShipSpinner on 28/07/2011 01:17:44
I will be interested to see where this Awakened Infomorph appears next.

Hilen Tukoss
Caldari
Eifyr and Co.
Posted - 2011.07.28 04:18:00 - [48]
 

Excellent report. My thanks to its contributors, and to Cmdr Baxter for the compilation of seemingly disparate pieces of information, all with a common thread that at the least demands further investigation.

My thanks also, to contributors in this discussion, who have helped shed further light on the uncertainties.

Antiquarian, I share your skepticism, but the evidence surrounding this series of incidents does appear quite comprehensive, and I am willing at this point to trust the word of multiple pilots. Your unrelenting quest for empirical evidence is admirable, in any case, and will serve you well in your position.

I have only one specific comment regarding the report so far.

As part of our ongoing information gathering efforts, Eifyr staff have been compiling various GalNet communications. Cross-analysis of key terms revealed another potential lead, which seems to be unexplored so far.

Originally by: "Manwe Todako"
Sorry Ston, its not where have I been, but "what" have I been. I have been asleep and in the process, undergone two significant events only to be unconscious and hence unable to explain what has happened. As you know, I have been exploring and meditating in New Eden. Sometimes "meditation" can become a euphemism for "napping." Such is my case.

The first time I fell asleep at the at the controls, I was cruising straight for the EVE gate. When I woke up, I was in close proximity to the violent wormhole in Promised Land. Hmm... Is there an entrance wormhole in New Eden that exists through the violent wormhole in Promised Land? Did I fly through it while asleep?

So I wanted to test the theory, so I tried it again. Guess what? I fell asleep again. This time, when I woke up, I had been pod killed by Tech 9 industries. Not a big deal, but I would really like to know where I was when they killed me. Was I in New Eden or in Promised Land?

I am going to keep at this until I find some answers. If anyone can help me out, please let me know.


Copied in full from this communication.

Since my time in the coming days will be devoted to organizational matters, I hope others will be able to follow this further.

Rikaato,

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.07.28 09:48:00 - [49]
 

Although I have yet to reproduce the transference from New Eden to Promised Land, staring into the abyss does drive home the ostensible size of the EVE Gate maelstrom. This image shows the system's star at roughly 9 AU, and the Gate - which I understand is three light years away:

New Eden "Twin Stars"

Just the core of the Gate's "storm" is at least twice the star's diameter. At such distance, that is "quite something."

VaL Iscariot
Caldari
The Concilium Enterprises
Spectrum Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:44:00 - [50]
 

So what would happen if a Infomorph A.I. took control of Sansha's Nation? Sansha use nanotechnology and neural implants to control their true slaves, right? So, would it be too far fetched to think the Sleepers over-took Sansha's own technology and have taken control of him, and Nation forces? Could the Sleepers be the masters while Sansha is simply a long dead pawn?

Harendotes
Posted - 2011.07.28 21:50:00 - [51]
 

In reply to sir Rikaato.

This is extremely interesting. I am sure that the thesis has been presented or thought of before.
EVE gate is a tremendous phenomena that even among the stars must be extremely rare.
Is it possible that the immense manipulation of space matter that existed before when the EVE gate was said to be active still is present? We know the wormhole itself collapsed, but is it possible that small connections are made here and there to whole New Eden allowing lesser vessels instantanous transportations to unnatural and unstable wormholes such as the violent wormhole reported by the pilot?
Maybe this tells us something about EVE gate as well, that it not as we have thought a natural phenomena, but that it is artificial. Or am I wrong here? Sorry, I am currently enjoying a vacation on a distant planet and have managed FTL-communications just tonight.

I indeed encourage pilots to investigate New Eden ... time will tell us what we want to know.

Svandis Illuvatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 02:32:00 - [52]
 

Update?

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.07.31 02:56:00 - [53]
 

The minion I set on a course for the EVE Gate did not reproduce the wormhole effect prior to getting popped around 9-10k from arrival (by an elite warrior princess named Minnie or Mincet or whatever).

I was not using a microwarp or any such velocity enhancing device. At one point, I had set a distant safe spot and gone from there, but then thought that did not comport with the activity the Disciple of Ston described - which I understood to be: point reaper at distant artifact and go until popped by useless idiot (of which there are far too many, frankly, for the myth of the capsuleer as an improvement over a so-called "baseline" to stand up to much scrutiny).

I bookmarked my progress at every 1k, and so effectively lost nothing in either resources or effort, but really this is best done by covert ops. I am not myself at liberty to travel to New Eden on such a venture - and, as the Disciple pointed out, there is a high likelihood of falling asleep at the wheel.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.03 05:51:00 - [54]
 

Offtopic posts removed.



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