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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.27 01:59:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Hoya en Marland
I bet vast number of people in Europe actually agree with most of the things written in that Manifesto.


Given the lack of tinfoil hats on everyone's heads I kindof doubt that.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.07.27 14:50:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
I bet vast number of people in Europe actually agree with most of the things written in that Manifesto.


Given the lack of tinfoil hats on everyone's heads I kindof doubt that.



The idea is to control ideas with guilt.

From the article:

Quote:
So, does this violence discredit neoconservatism, as when then-President Clinton tried to blame libertarians and the "militia" movement for the Oklahoma bombing in 1995? The point of this game is to silence the opposition, shut down debate, and fundamentally discredit the body of ideas on which the violence can be blamed.

The truth is that every political point of view can be twisted into a rationale for violence. If you think that the rich should be expropriated, there are generally two ways to bring this about: you and your friends can steal from the rich directly Ė maybe killing some fat cats in the process Ė or you can lobby Congress to do it for you.

The second method is preferred in a democratic society. When violence against person and property operates under the cover of the law, it is rarely called out for what it truly is. It is only when the legal cover is removed that the violence shocks and alarms us. But what about the morality of it all, whether we are speaking about private violence, the redistributionist state, or the war-making imperial state? In moral substance, they amount to the same thing.


Letís try a thought experiment that is not entirely implausible. Letís say that in the future, some psycho kills innocent people and blows up buildings. But this time, he is directly influenced by libertarianism, and was driven to desperate measures in the interest of overthrowing the state.

This could happen. It hasnít happened, but it could. The question is whether this personís intellectual influences would discredit the libertarian tradition. That would certainly be the attempt of the mainstream media. Even after 9/11/01, the pundits were screaming that this event alone was enough to discredit libertarianism, that the destruction and the aftermath offered positive proof that we need a gigantic state. So, yes, I think we can be confident that if some violent person had libertarian influences, libertarianism would catch the blame.









Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:06:00 - [93]
 

Quote:

Are you seriously trying to compare US gun control to Norweigan gun control, and then say gun control in Norway is bad because this one incident happened? Gun ownership in Norway is common, they don't have the twisted fascination with them that Americans do or have an NRA that would be against outlawing SAMs if it thought it could, but it's not uncommon for a Norwegian to own firearms yet relative to population i dare say Norway has a far lower instance of gun crime than the USA.

It's also pretty low to try to use this so glibly to further a pro-gun agenda.


1. I am not an NRA member and will always be the first to call out the NRA as a false front. The NRA will, on more crucial subjects, compromise. The entire "oh so you think you should own a nuclear missile" argument falls on its face when you realize that the only entity that ever wanted explosives, nukes, SAMs, and other such crew-served weaponry, is government, and with the intention of killing lots of people (depopulation) in a very expensive manner (war profiteering). Individual possession or weapons is not in that sphere of effect. If everybody had a main battle rifle and a total lack of consent for anything that comes after the word "we", there would be world peace.
2. All cats have claws yet you don't see calicos enslaving tabbies. All dogs can bite, so you don't see German Shepards taking over the world and putting poodles in death camps. It's not a "pro gun agenda" as you put it. Humans are tool users. Guns are the tools of the day. In the past it was swords and bows. When the Million Mom March tried to use Columbine as America's Dunblane/Port Arthur and do what was done in England and Australia, the response to that movement had a simple message (as the Denver chapter was rolling military vehicles in the streets): "it's not about guns it's about protecting the lives of the poor bastards who will be sent to collect them".


Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.07.28 23:27:00 - [94]
 

Well well well the region that invented the Viking, now Norway, never fails to impress.

Norway has the balls my country lacks.

(note: we used to have those balls before the rise of the "soccer moms" - all of which became "security moms" in 2001)


Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.28 23:30:00 - [95]
 

I applaud that approach.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.07.28 23:48:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 28/07/2011 23:48:23
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer


Quote:
So, does this violence discredit neoconservatism, as when then-President Clinton tried to blame libertarians and the "militia" movement for the Oklahoma bombing in 1995? The point of this game is to silence the opposition, shut down debate, and fundamentally discredit the body of ideas on which the violence can be blamed.





You know the nice thing about decades of leftists screaming "Extremist!" and "Racist!" at anyone who points out the flaws in their ideology or so much as dares to disagree is that such terms have completely lost their effectiveness. People now recognize those words as the last gasp of a liberal losing an argument. Very Happy

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.29 00:35:00 - [97]
 

Republicans are far too busy soliciting sex from their secret gay partners to be racist.

ChaeDoc II
Gallente
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.07.29 01:07:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 28/07/2011 23:48:23
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer


Quote:
So, does this violence discredit neoconservatism, as when then-President Clinton tried to blame libertarians and the "militia" movement for the Oklahoma bombing in 1995? The point of this game is to silence the opposition, shut down debate, and fundamentally discredit the body of ideas on which the violence can be blamed.





You know the nice thing about decades of leftists screaming "Extremist!" and "Racist!" at anyone who points out the flaws in their ideology or so much as dares to disagree is that such terms have completely lost their effectiveness. People now recognize those words as the last gasp of a liberal losing an argument. Very Happy


Not really, it's just that people that scream such bigoted bullcrap that gets called such "names" have come up with the "everyone that disagrees with you is 'racist'" defence.
Irony being that they're the first to call me a communist, or a traitor etc.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.07.29 08:44:00 - [99]
 

I dont get why crazy people kill or bomb civilians that have no connection with their cause.

He doesnt like immigrations or muslims, so what does he do, kills a lot of teens Rolling Eyes

Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2011.07.29 09:12:00 - [100]
 

30minutes ago we got the sad news. My GFs cousin is dead, her friends sister is dead (DNA match only, remains not recognizable).

Takseen
Posted - 2011.07.29 09:48:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Hoya en Marland
I bet vast number of people in Europe actually agree with most of the things written in that Manifesto.


Some of them do, of course. Just not enough of them to get their political parties into office. Which suggests that they're nowhere near the majority in most European countries.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.07.29 09:52:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If everybody had a main battle rifle and a total lack of consent for anything that comes after the word "we", there would be world peace.


The sad thing is that you probably really do believe this.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.07.29 09:55:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
I dont get why crazy people kill or bomb civilians that have no connection with their cause.

He doesnt like immigrations or muslims, so what does he do, kills a lot of teens Rolling Eyes


His logic was that the Norwegian labour party were the ones allowing muslims to immigrate, and so by killing their young politicians in training they would...no it still doesn't make any sense, nevermind.

William Walker
Amarr
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.29 10:43:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Hori To
30minutes ago we got the sad news. My GFs cousin is dead, her friends sister is dead (DNA match only, remains not recognizable).


My condolences :(

Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:01:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Kalle Demos
I dont get why crazy people kill or bomb civilians that have no connection with their cause.

He doesnt like immigrations or muslims, so what does he do, kills a lot of teens Rolling Eyes


His logic was that the Norwegian labour party were the ones allowing muslims to immigrate, and so by killing their young politicians in training they would...no it still doesn't make any sense, nevermind.


it makes perfect sense, in the most cold and clinical way.

Thank you William, strangely, condolences from a perfect stranger helps a bit.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:43:00 - [106]
 

I dont like fat people, therefore the only way to get a message across that fat people are ruining the world is to kill skinny teenagers

Yeah that will teach the fatties :/

Citizen20100211442
Minmatar
Carebear Evolution
AEQUITAS.
Posted - 2011.07.29 14:00:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
I dont like fat people, therefore the only way to get a message across that fat people are ruining the world is to kill skinny teenagers

Yeah that will teach the fatties :/


Well in your example it was like shooting MCdonald workers..

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.07.29 14:45:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If everybody had a main battle rifle and a total lack of consent for anything that comes after the word "we", there would be world peace.


The sad thing is that you probably really do believe this.


The sad thing is that you don't.

But the kind of world that exists to stave off the consequences of your ignorance is falling apart from bankruptcy and corruption. The real test is whether or not you can adapt.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.30 00:29:00 - [109]
 

This is my take on anything spouted on in this thread for good or ill.

No one cares, you know crap

Carcosa Hali
True Slave Foundations
Posted - 2011.07.30 22:36:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Hori To
30minutes ago we got the sad news. My GFs cousin is dead, her friends sister is dead (DNA match only, remains not recognizable).


That's so horrible. I don't even know what to say other than I'm sorry.

Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2011.07.30 22:56:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Carcosa Hali
Originally by: Hori To
30minutes ago we got the sad news. My GFs cousin is dead, her friends sister is dead (DNA match only, remains not recognizable).


That's so horrible. I don't even know what to say other than I'm sorry.


Not much to say to be honest. You summed it up. Sad


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