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Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.22 15:26:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/07/2011 16:55:56
I heard somewhere a ship expansion was on the cards? Well as the saying goes, ship expansions, best expansions. And in ode to that particular cause, I would like to recommend a few classes of ships we've kinda been asking for for quite a while...

Before I continue, I must add:
NO NEW FRIGS OR CRUISERS, instead re-assess roles for, then balance existing Tech 1 frigs, destroyers, assault frigs.

Obligitory Nerf supercaps, buff hybrids, nerf dramial, boost/remove active tanking bonuses, boost legion, make 5th strategic cruiser subsystems etc etc




Now, in no particular order...

Industrial:
Dedicated ship carrier that could transport fitted ships through empire using stargates with a ship maintenance array large enough to hold +4 battleships.

A specialised gas cloud harvester.

A Tech 2 Noctis. - None squishy version, with tech 2 resists.



Combat
Tornado and 3 other battleships to be added either as tier 3 tech 1 battleships, or new split faction ship variants (eg, caldari/minmatar, gallente/caldari, armarr/gallente, amarr/minmatar) with a similar strength to pirate ships.

Tier 2 carriers - 2x for each race, one specialised for moving stuff around with extended jump range bonuses and jump range efficiency, less mass, less highslots. The other specialised with none triage RR, less jump range, more cap regen. Both would have less fighter dps.

Tech 2, Tier 2 battlecruisers or pirate versions

Tech 3 Battlecruisers with subsystems that include:
Pocket Dreads - with 1/3 dread dps, ehp, tank, with siege mode.
Wormwhole system effects generator
Covert Interdictor - with 5km sphere launcher, covert op's cloak, less guns, ehp.
System wide cyno-scrambler - forces incoming capitals +400AU away from cyno field
Specialised bomb launcher with de cloaking ability and anti fighter lockbreaker - disconnecting all drones, fighters and fighterbombers from it's parent ship within an aoe of Xkm.
A mimatar tech 3 with 7 midslots and no split weapons nonsense Evil or Very Mad
A gallente tech 3 with 5 bonused heavy drones Evil or Very Mad
A well balanced amarr tech 3 with drones or missiles as primary weapon system Evil or Very Mad
A caldari tech 3 with a wealth of grid and cpu.Evil or Very Mad


Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.22 16:55:00 - [2]
 

And why no new frigates?

By my count, there are already 56 different frigates, excluding uber rare prize ships. Many of them useless. There are also 52 cruisers (compared to 34 battleships or 16 battlecruisers). I think that's enough until new game mechanics are introduced that open up new niches...


Diesel47
Posted - 2011.07.22 21:46:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 22/07/2011 21:47:53
I agree with most things said here.... besides the "remove active tanking bonuses". Boost would be nice, but removal is just plain stupid. Infact... modify ships to active tank better. (bit better cap, little bit more cargo, etc.)


If hybrids are boosted then gallente droneships need a nerf... otherwise they will become unstoppable.

SabuMaru ICE
Posted - 2011.07.22 21:54:00 - [4]
 

so where are the
- T2 Dreads
- T2/3 BSes
- T3 industrial/bardges
- Hive ships
etc

ideas so far i like ..
make a summery off all ship ideas out there in my opinion

MICH00000
Posted - 2011.07.23 01:00:00 - [5]
 

escort carriers

Sobaan Tali
Posted - 2011.07.23 11:56:00 - [6]
 

There is a reason CCP never gave the Proteus the ability to launch 5 heavies...because it puts it on par with the Ishtar. I'm not very fluent in the language of Gallente ships, but from my understanding, CCP avoided this because they were afraid it would reduce the viability of the Ishtar, i.e. "Why use that ship, when this one can do the same thing but better?" I recall another thread questioned the Hype's slot arrangement and the answer was that it would threaten the Mega's worth. A buff to hybrids would seem like the more logical and balanced choice than giving the Proteus 5 heavies. Btw, I really like the 5th sub idea.

Oooooh Aaaaah
Posted - 2011.07.23 14:34:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Sobaan Tali
There is a reason CCP never gave the Proteus the ability to launch 5 heavies...because it puts it on par with the Ishtar. I'm not very fluent in the language of Gallente ships, but from my understanding, CCP avoided this because they were afraid it would reduce the viability of the Ishtar, i.e. "Why use that ship, when this one can do the same thing but better?" I recall another thread questioned the Hype's slot arrangement and the answer was that it would threaten the Mega's worth.


If CCP would follow that design philosophy, then what is the Legion for? You can make it a slightly better Sac, a slightly better Zealot or a slightly better Pilgrim.
The advantages are so minor however, that you just don't see them getting used (4x the price and losing a skill for a better tank or a 100mn AB? No thanks...).

Accordingly, I don't see a problem with fixing hybrids (read: fixing, not overpowering them like ACs) and 5 heavies on a proteus.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.23 15:36:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 23/07/2011 15:42:10
When I refered to 5 heavy drone subsystem for gallente, it was in reference to a new tech 3 battlecruser. Current drone subsystem on the proteus is good.

However given that it's currently better than the Deimos in every imaginable way, and the Loki is better than the munin by a similar margin, etc etc, that reason didn't really make much sense. If your obseleting one of the HACs why not both given the expense?

Either way, nee game mechanics need to come with new tech 3s or else were in for a rough ride :o

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:12:00 - [9]
 

Some one mentioned escort carriers? What exactly could those ships do that couldn't be done with the other classes?

I get that there is a gap between capitals and battleships, but I think that the separation between classes in terms of performance is a good thing. When that doesn't happen, you have issues such as HACs vs Battlecruisrs, Commandships vs Stategic Cruisers. Too much overlap with the weaker choice being neglected.

Also goes to show somewhat why Battleships have become so much more underutilized - too small a performance gab over BC's for the isk/sp cost let alone the speed/tracking/sig tradeoffs.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:28:00 - [10]
 

A Thorax that doesn't die to a Rupture when starting a fight at blaster optimal and keeping it there the entire fight.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.26 19:54:00 - [11]
 

Who knows, 12 months till the gallente boost I think. Maybe they'll boost the grid of blaster boats so that neutrons with any sort of tank becomes s possibility.

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.26 20:11:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Flynn Fetladral on 26/07/2011 20:12:07
I love the idea of making an escort / defence carrier that can protect fleets from fighter bombers with its fighters and point defence flak cannons / missiles Very Happy

StukaBee
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.26 20:34:00 - [13]
 

I realise you're keen to get the Tornado in, but until CCP come up with a viable role for it (rather than 'new ships for the sake of new ships') I'd rather they hold off.

Plus, there's no guarantee that your design will make it in as the battleship you designed it to be. CCP might just as easily decide that the Tornado model should be scaled down and introduced as a tier 3 battlecruiser, or a tier 2 destroyer....

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.27 00:03:00 - [14]
 

Would be nice on the CCP following through on the main reason why I entered the competition. In addition, if they did ever decide to hold a similar contest, they should be more prescriptive on the type of ship they'd want in game as beyond following the dimension limits, all I could do was design the type of ship I'd like to fly.

Quote:
I love the idea of making an escort / defence carrier that can protect fleets from fighter bombers with its fighters and point defence flak cannons / missiles

By escort carrier, do you mean capital ship? Or just carrier escort? Couldn't that role be done with another ship class? (destroyers for instance...)

Kieron VonDeux
Posted - 2011.07.27 03:00:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Kieron VonDeux on 27/07/2011 03:02:04
My picks..

Tech II Carrier, Assault Carrier
Tech II Dread, Juggernaut
Tech II Tier 2 BC, Strategic Bomber (Anti Cap Ship Stealth Bomber)
Tech II Tier 3 BS, Flagship
and,
Hive Ship

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.07.27 13:24:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Rrama Ratamnim on 27/07/2011 13:24:26
Originally by: Sobaan Tali
There is a reason CCP never gave the Proteus the ability to launch 5 heavies...because it puts it on par with the Ishtar. I'm not very fluent in the language of Gallente ships, but from my understanding, CCP avoided this because they were afraid it would reduce the viability of the Ishtar, i.e. "Why use that ship, when this one can do the same thing but better?"


because the ishtar doesn't cost a billion to fly?

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.27 14:00:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 27/07/2011 14:00:13
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
...Before I continue, I must add:
NO NEW FRIGS OR CRUISERS, instead re-assess roles for, then balance existing Tech 1 frigs, destroyers, assault frigs....

Tiericide is an expansion in itself and will remove the need for any additional ships for a long time.
Even if ignoring cookie-cutters you only really see a handful of ships on a daily basis which is by far the biggest "issue" facing Eve today (ships wise that is).

- Capitals have become the poster child of what is wrong with the game, so advocating MORE! of the filthy things is just silly.
- Mining/Industry (all aspects) needs a serious overhaul and would necessitate revamping several ships. Could see a combat miner being introduced .. claws for the carebears.
- New BCs won't fit unless you first do away with tiers. They would supersede tier1 BS and thus merely add to the power-creep.
- T3 BC's if specifically made as capital-subcapital hybrids could be quite interesting. Depends on what happens with sovereignty I reckon .. might not be needed.

My most wanted:
- Tiericide.
- Second Interdictor from the alternate corporation (ie. Carthum for Amarr for instance).
- Destroyer revamp to have fewer guns with higher bonus, costs a bloody fortune to fly as they tend to explode frequently.
- Navy eWar cruisers (saw this suggested elsewhere and idea has grown on me Smile)

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.07.27 15:14:00 - [18]
 

Dvergr
As a Hulk except +20%HP, +10%/level to drone HP/Damage/mining, double drone bandwidth and bay size, lose the +3%/level exhumer bonus to strips.
This preserves the Hulk's place as top harvester while providing a solid platform for industrialists operating in potentially hostile systems.


OB anti-cap/anti supercap Tier 2 dreads

Rushnik
Minmatar
Anhalter's Minions
Posted - 2011.07.27 16:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 27/07/2011 14:00:13
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
...Before I continue, I must add:
NO NEW FRIGS OR CRUISERS, instead re-assess roles for, then balance existing Tech 1 frigs, destroyers, assault frigs....

Tiericide is an expansion in itself and will remove the need for any additional ships for a long time.
Even if ignoring cookie-cutters you only really see a handful of ships on a daily basis which is by far the biggest "issue" facing Eve today (ships wise that is).

- Capitals have become the poster child of what is wrong with the game, so advocating MORE! of the filthy things is just silly.
- Mining/Industry (all aspects) needs a serious overhaul and would necessitate revamping several ships. Could see a combat miner being introduced .. claws for the carebears.
- New BCs won't fit unless you first do away with tiers. They would supersede tier1 BS and thus merely add to the power-creep.
- T3 BC's if specifically made as capital-subcapital hybrids could be quite interesting. Depends on what happens with sovereignty I reckon .. might not be needed.

My most wanted:
- Tiericide.
- Second Interdictor from the alternate corporation (ie. Carthum for Amarr for instance).
- Destroyer revamp to have fewer guns with higher bonus, costs a bloody fortune to fly as they tend to explode frequently.
- Navy eWar cruisers (saw this suggested elsewhere and idea has grown on me Smile)


Okay, no approval of this thread as imo what said above is true.

Balancing of all ships is really needed, we have alot of points that speak for tiericide. For example we have those models and we dont use them. The Ships you want to fly are nine times out of ten the highes tier of their ship class until you can step up to a higher ship class (as in PVE).

Just remember how you think of those other ships? In PVP you wont fly those.

EVE is a game where you fit your ships and build them around different strengths (or like the tengu strong in everythingShocked). An example is Minmatar agains Amarr - two sides of a coin.

My most wanted:

- fix Gallente
- nerf/buff whats discussed
- start working on tiericide
- look at what you got
- rebalance again
- tweak or introduce new ships/modules

something in that order.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:56:00 - [20]
 

I agree with removal of tiers, especially with battleships, battlecruisers as at that level of the game, the value of having teirs from the NPE is greatly exceeded by the balance issues that result from it thereafter.

However believing that no new ships can be brought in until everything has been rebalanced is silly.
1) Eve should be in a constant state of flux, balancing shouldn't end even if expansions where focused to it
2) new ships are kinda what keep the game alive, people skill training and new players believing that the game is evolving.
3) new ships can also be a spur for change, new Battleships for instance would set the stage for a proper re-evaluation of roles, tiers and capability.
4) and this thread was in response to the fact CCP where considering adding new ships. Which might be 1 to 3 years away given the nature of game development and CCPs over streached art dept.
5) new ships and modules (new modules is something we've had so little of, t3 modules anyone?) are the best ways to introduce new game mechanics.

As for capitals. I think it's time for more specialised none super caps. Normal capitals are actually kinda fun and given the limited varity and the now large proportion of players that can use them, development in that area would be a logical step.

Aglais
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.30 17:56:00 - [21]
 

Why no new frigates or cruisers?

Thanks, you're stifling the role I've personally set for myself, and essentially forcing me to work with things I don't like in order to experience more content.

I have to agree that some frigates and cruisers need to be looked at for sure. Caldari in particular. Eagle in particular. But the Caracal can't hold ANY tank as something that's not spewing AMLs. The Navy Osprey is... I don't even know. A faster Caracal, that still has difficulty being resilient? What about the Hawk, with it's misplaced Minmatar shield bonus? Also Retri. Why one med slot? Punisher had two, where'd the other one go?

I would be overyjoyed with T3 frigates and destroyers. I would not give a flying **** about T3 battleships, because they're slow, it takes upwards of ten seconds to align and the Caldari ones are **** anyways. (Before you say "BUT THE SCORPION ISN'T"- It is. At least for my preferred style of doing things. I hate flying ewar because when I get fits for ewar ships, that's all they do- they are dedicated ewar platforms with no 'direct' weaponry. Call me a munchkin, but this role doesn't appeal to me.)

We do not need more battlecruisers. They are already the most common ship class, and there needs to be an incentive to fly cruisers still if you have them. I thought this was a sandbox, where you could do whatever you want to succeed. If you have to be in a battlecruiser gang in lowsec in order to actually stand a chance of doing something, then it's no longer a wide open sandbox. What we need, is a way to make them less of a 'do everything' ship, as is the case of the Drake, and make them excel in a particular role rather than just do everything better than Cruisers and make them and HACs less useful.


I do think that the tier 3 battleships (rokh, hyperion, baddon, that other Minmatar one) could use T2 variants, and I'd support the addition of these. Just please don't make the Rokh's T2 variant a Lai Dai ship. Lai Dai has the fugliest color scheme I've EVER seen.

I would also strongly support the addition of all the other ships used by the Pirate factions. Of all ship classes.

The Angel Cartel has so many different frigate models, it's insane. It'd be interesting to see new frigates come in with new roles and specialties based on them for the Cartel, as well as the other variants of ships (like Gurista Kestrels and Serpentis Tristans) that function in another way linked to the faction of their origin as well. This would be far more interesting in my opinion than a bunch of new battleships.

But still. One thing I really want to see, is the ability to apply more Caldari ships to PvP. I guess you could fly a Merlin or a Moa but other than their defences there isn't much of a reason to do so because other ships (GODDAMN RUPTURE) just do it better in most situations. The only Caldari direct-combat ship that sees any use in... Any PvP is the Drake. (don't say I'm ignoring the ECM boats, because I'm not.) Being able to use ships that are already there for more things than mindlessly shooting little red crosses would be wonderful.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.01 00:12:00 - [22]
 

There's too many, and far too few of them get used.

AF's? EAF's? All massive problems. Compounded by a general lack of speed.

Honestly, interceptors worked so much better when skilled pilots could take them to 7kms without implants.

Interdictors horrifically nerfed speedwise also, risk / reward stakes means it's almost always better to fly a HIC, especially if your in an old clone.

Sooo many balancing to do as far as new ones go, I don't really know what you could add that hasn't been done already or that another class of ships doesn't do yet.

Deliceous
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:31:00 - [23]
 

I would like to see some ships that are extremely skill intensive that only most veterans can fly possibly a Battle ship or a middle ship that is between a capital a Battle ship that requires max capital skills to fly.

There are those vets that a looking for something for them to fly.

Straightoutacompton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.04 12:20:00 - [24]
 

i think that tornado looks great and i look forward to flying one - any idea's to when we're going to see these on market?

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.04 12:27:00 - [25]
 

It's amazing how often I'm bugged about when the tornado is comming... I wish I had an answer...Confused

ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.08.12 13:39:00 - [26]
 

When is the tornado coming?

Seraphina Amaranth
Posted - 2011.08.12 13:44:00 - [27]
 

+1

Also: a new player asked me the other day 'After I get into a hulk, what do I aim for next as a miner?' and I had no answer.

Solution: capital-class mining vessels with siege mode. If you'd like, they can have a role bonus to get extra benefits from certain mining crystals, to make it actually worth mining low-ends outside of high-sec.

Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.08.12 16:11:00 - [28]
 


Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.12 16:23:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 12/08/2011 16:23:28
Originally by: Seraphina Amaranth
+1

Also: a new player asked me the other day 'After I get into a hulk, what do I aim for next as a miner?' and I had no answer.

Solution: capital-class mining vessels with siege mode. If you'd like, they can have a role bonus to get extra benefits from certain mining crystals, to make it actually worth mining low-ends outside of high-sec.


NO.

damn bots already have it too easy.

ed -- coming from a miner.

Zarak1 Kenpach1
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:32:00 - [30]
 

+1

pattern is an eve buddha


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