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Rob Bowen
Posted - 2011.07.22 09:50:00 - [1]
 

I currently live inside a wormhole as the CEO of a wormhole corporation, or at least, the alt of. It's a great life and a brilliant alternative way to playing eve. We're very organised and have a great community only we have to fight constantly against game mechanics to actually exist. Do CCP really not want people to live inside wormhole space? Because it really feels like that.

Lately I've heard rumour of ice mining being removed from highsec and ABC's being removed from many wormhole grav sites. This is just ridiculous. If ices are removed from highsec the price of isotopes will rise so much that small corps like mine won't be able to afford the upkeep of our poses. And then you want to cut our income removing ABCs. Cutting our income and raising our bills. We will be forced to move out of our hole, as will many wormhole corporations. And I'm sure im not the only person who would not play eve without my wormhole, its the only thing im interested in. I would just cancel my subscription, as would half my members.

As for current issues inside a wormhole, here is a list of game mechanics we have to fight with on a daily basis that need not be here.

- Signature ID's changing every time your server goes down, do you realise downtime equals another hour or two of probing for us?
- Unable to repackage in a pos, why oh why? My hanger is cluttered as hell.
- Unable to repair at a pos
- No division tabs in the ship maintenance array, do you realise how easy it is for people to steal everything from us? Not to mention not being able to sort ships in to different areas
- Lack of levels of access, every member of a wormhole corporation needs to be a starbase fuel technician to give them a higher level of access to recruits who are just standard members. Which means every structure other than the hanger and ship maintenance array has the "Config Starbase Equipment" Role. So my officers have this role. But now my officers have rights to not only anchor and unanchor structures but also take down the entire pos itself. I need another level of access on pos structures!
- Refine rates? Why are we maxed at 75%?
- Why can't we mine ice in wormhole space?

I'm sure there are many other aspects if I took more time to think about them, but these are a good start. Why are you fighting against us CCP? Wormholes are another playstyle of eve and yet you do everything to remove us from them?

Also, a few ideas to improve wormhole space:

- Allow new mini stations for us to dock. Perhaps no facilities, no market, just a ship maintenance array and a hanger? But bring Incarna in to wormhole space. Wormhole corps are a close community, it would be nice if we could interact through incarna. Sit in the bar in a tiny station?
- Change the Divisions section of the corp hanger, allow me to add more tabs and allow me to make tabs visible to certain users. Why can't I give me members a tab each?
- Allow residence of a wormhole to claim some state of Sovereignty. Not to the same degree as nullsec but to some lesser form. Micro upgrades? You could tie this in with removing ABC's. A claimed wormhole could upgrade to get access to ABC's?


If you could look in to even one of the things on my list I would be ecstatic. Work with us, wormhole people are people too, don't hate us or penalise us for finding a different way of life!


Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.22 13:32:00 - [2]
 

+ 1 for thoose comments idea.

Would be cool to upgrade your system to cater to your corps playstyle. Maby tampering with the effects somehow?

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.07.22 13:55:00 - [3]
 

It's very rare that this happens, but i agree with everything you said.

Zenhexzen
Awesome Corp
Posted - 2011.07.22 21:24:00 - [4]
 

I agree with everything except I'm pretty sure the lack of ice is a mechanic to keep players from being 100% self sufficient in wormhole space.

Jiska Ensa
Posted - 2011.07.22 21:38:00 - [5]
 

Not sure I agree with the bit about ice, but the signatures and keeping the damned ABC's would be nice.

Your suggestions about the POS changes aren't uniquie to wormholes. POS mechanics are outdated and broken and in serious need of an overhaul.

The CSM, in their infinite wisdom, wants ABC's removed from wormholes...they fail to realize that us WH residents lose 25% (at best) of our minerals when we refine. Also, isk/hour wise, mining is still the least profitable thing to do in a wormhole. So yah, if ABC's are on the way out, they'd better damn well make it so we can refine the remaining crap at 100%

Stupid csm...can't believe I voted for them...

Spr09
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:24:00 - [6]
 

so you want this to be nullsec, just watered down? i agree with the ice and the role issues, but everything else i just dont really agree with. wornholes are really good money because they're hard to live in. with what you're suggesting it almost becomes nullsec with limited access.

to the reapirs, you simply bring a hull/armor repper into the wormhole. it takes a while, but so far i think it's fair with how it's set up.

and to the downtime sigs resetting, so scan them down again. once again, it's good money because it's supposed to be hard.

Honsou Blackblade
Minmatar
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.07.23 01:15:00 - [7]
 

You can't repair mods like you can in a station, you have to use repair paste (which is annoying).
No ice in wormholes is fine, you aren't supposed to be self sufficient.

Rest needs serious consideration.

Matthew Savarito
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:44:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Matthew Savarito on 23/07/2011 05:45:39
Originally by: Rob Bowen
Do CCP really not want people to live inside wormhole space? Because it really feels like that.




well actually no. they donot want people permanatly living in whspace. (i live in whspace btw)

Originally by: Rob Bowen
Lately I've heard rumour of ice mining being removed from highsec and ABC's being removed from many wormhole grav sites.



won't happen, 0.0 CSM members having a cry thats all.



Originally by: Rob Bowen

- Signature ID's changing every time your server goes down, do you realise downtime equals another hour or two of probing for us?
- Unable to repackage in a pos, why oh why? My hanger is cluttered as hell.
- No division tabs in the ship maintenance array, do you realise how easy it is for people to steal everything from us? Not to mention not being able to sort ships in to different areas
- Lack of levels of access, every member of a wormhole corporation needs to be a starbase fuel technician to give them a higher level of access to recruits who are just standard members.



agree on all.

Originally by: Rob Bowen

- Refine rates? Why are we maxed at 75%?
- Why can't we mine ice in wormhole space?
- Unable to repair at a pos



Disagree. Cant make living in whspace easy. get a rorqual, compress and haul out. AND when you get a highsec haul compressed ore out and ice fuel in. simple.

Originally by: Rob Bowen

Also, a few ideas to improve wormhole space:

- Allow new mini stations for us to dock.
- Allow residence of a wormhole to claim some state of Sovereignty.



Nope. not nullsec. its whspace.

Originally by: Rob Bowen

- Change the Divisions section of the corp hanger, allow me to add more tabs and allow me to make tabs visible to certain users. Why can't I give me members a tab each?



Well cant argue with you there. Expect its difficult for ccp to implement. Like what happens if you have multiple POS's or like 100 members. Difficult to manage. would be very laggy


Chuck Snoris
Future Corps Limited
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.07.23 12:26:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Chuck Snoris on 23/07/2011 12:28:00
Edited by: Chuck Snoris on 23/07/2011 12:27:31
I agree with pretty much everything you said about corp access control and pos access control. The corp and pos interfaces need serious work.

Originally by: Rob Bowen

- Allow new mini stations for us to dock. Perhaps no facilities, no market, just a ship maintenance array and a hanger? But bring Incarna in to wormhole space. Wormhole corps are a close community, it would be nice if we could interact through incarna. Sit in the bar in a tiny station?


IMHO this is a horrible idea. Stations have no place in wormholes. This would break so many things that make wormholes what they are.

Originally by: Rob Bowen
- Allow residence of a wormhole to claim some state of Sovereignty. Not to the same degree as nullsec but to some lesser form. Micro upgrades? You could tie this in with removing ABC's. A claimed wormhole could upgrade to get access to ABC's?


Again, I disagree. The only "sov" you have in wormholes is your ability to keep control of the hole.

Wormholes are fine the way they are, the only things that need fixing are the previously mentioned corp and pos problems.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.23 14:09:00 - [10]
 

No.

Rubix Khamsi
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:47:00 - [11]
 

erm, if it takes you 1-2 hours to get the new IDs, you're doing it wrong. 10 mins tops!

Rob Bowen
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:32:00 - [12]
 

Thanks for all your replies. May I first state that my corporation lives very successfully in wormhole space. We get around all these issues and have many work arounds. It works, but again, why are we having to work around bad game mechanics? Even if you disagree with all my ideas for change you can at least agree that the pos interface and general setup is bad and needs an overhaul.

Workarounds we use:
Orca for compressing
Spreadsheets for sharing ID's
Trust for sharing the hanger tabs
Lag for millions of unpackaged mods


As far as my suggestions for "sov in wormholes" goes, those who replied, "that would just be like sov space" have no imagination. Why can't a different mechanic be used to control the wormhole system you take? The ability control the wormhole effects perhaps? Research them, study them, upgrade the positives, downgrade the negatives? Anything to give wormhole space more dynamics. There is a lot more potential in wormhole space and I don't feel CCP are making the most of it.

Perhaps my original statement was misinterpreted, I dont necessarily want things to be easier, I just want things to be a little more indepth than just, "heres your pos, heres a probe launcher, heres your Tengu, have fun".


And my GOD... LET US CHANGE T3 SUBSYSTEMS!!!!

Rubix Khamsi
Posted - 2011.07.24 00:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Rob Bowen
Thanks for all your replies. May I first state that my corporation lives very successfully in wormhole space. We get around all these issues and have many work arounds. It works, but again, why are we having to work around bad game mechanics? Even if you disagree with all my ideas for change you can at least agree that the pos interface and general setup is bad and needs an overhaul.

Workarounds we use:
Orca for compressing
Spreadsheets for sharing ID's
Trust for sharing the hanger tabs
Lag for millions of unpackaged mods


As far as my suggestions for "sov in wormholes" goes, those who replied, "that would just be like sov space" have no imagination. Why can't a different mechanic be used to control the wormhole system you take? The ability control the wormhole effects perhaps? Research them, study them, upgrade the positives, downgrade the negatives? Anything to give wormhole space more dynamics. There is a lot more potential in wormhole space and I don't feel CCP are making the most of it.

Perhaps my original statement was misinterpreted, I dont necessarily want things to be easier, I just want things to be a little more indepth than just, "heres your pos, heres a probe launcher, heres your Tengu, have fun".


And my GOD... LET US CHANGE T3 SUBSYSTEMS!!!!



It isn't supposed to be easy.
When you have a POS, isnt the ship hangar's security the same, regardless if you are in a WH or not? If you dont trust who can access the ship hangar, maybe they should get their own POS, or dont store your ship in there if its too expensive, either sit in it or get your own POS. Does that still not solve it? Again I havent messed with POS in awhile but just thinking off the top of my head...

For sharing ID's. I dont live in WH space anymore, but cant you just drop bookmarks in a container? That is what we used to do... I used to name the bookmarks like:
SDG-124 / WH / C3
EJD-642 / Radar / Blah blah blah
etc...

Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.07.24 07:07:00 - [14]
 

I've been living in wormholes almost since Apocrypha.

Quote:
If ices are removed from highsec the price of isotopes will rise so much that small corps like mine won't be able to afford the upkeep of our poses.

While I certainly wouldn't welcome higher pos fuel prices, it's also possible that if they removed them from highsec they might re-balance yields or fuel requirements to compensate.

Quote:
And then you want to cut our income removing ABCs

ABC's are part of your income? :/
Waste of SP, why bother? That said I like the diversity in sites being present. There is a group of people with little to no wormhole experience, that have come to think that a significant quantity of ABC's come from wormhole mining. The odds of this being true are almost non existent, and pretty much all wormhole dwellers know better. That said, I highly, highly, doubt that CCP will remove it (they too know better).

Quote:
Signature ID's changing every time your server goes down, do you realise downtime equals another hour or two of probing for us?

It shouldn't, if you are active at all in your wormhole you really shouldn't have many sigs regardless. In addition you can keep bookmarks of the various sites and instantly scan those locations instead of starting from scratch. I do however agree that it would be nice if they stayed the same.

Quote:
<POS's suck>

Completely agreed in every way you mentioned, and more. POS's need an overhaul, including an ACL for rights management. POS's are one of the coolest aspects of eve, as well as one of the biggest pains, it could be so much better.

Quote:
Why can't we mine ice in wormhole space?

Why would you want to mine ice at all? Go buy it from the poor plebs that mine it for you.

Autumn Harvest
Posted - 2011.08.20 20:25:00 - [15]
 

Wonderful Ideas :)

Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.20 20:45:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rob Bowen

- Signature ID's changing every time your server goes down, do you realise downtime equals another hour or two of probing for us?

Consider this overhead. Its not hard to reprobe and should definitely not take you an hour or two.
Quote:
-Unable to repair at a pos

Keep reps stored in the corp hangar. Fit as needed and repair. Not hard.
Quote:
-Lack of levels of access, every member of a wormhole corporation needs to be a starbase fuel technician to give them a higher level of access to recruits who are just standard members. Which means every structure other than the hanger and ship maintenance array has the "Config Starbase Equipment" Role. So my officers have this role. But now my officers have rights to not only anchor and unanchor structures but also take down the entire pos itself. I need another level of access on pos structures!

Part of whole POS rework that will come some day.
Quote:
- Refine rates? Why are we maxed at 75%?

Because its WH space. This is what you sacrifice by being “self sufficient.”
Quote:
- Why can't we mine ice in wormhole space?

It was never intended for players to stay for extended periods of time in wh space. Get over it. CCP has already said this is not happening.
Quote:
- Allow new mini stations for us to dock. Perhaps no facilities, no market, just a ship maintenance array and a hanger? But bring Incarna in to wormhole space. Wormhole corps are a close community, it would be nice if we could interact through incarna. Sit in the bar in a tiny station?

No.
Quote:
- Allow residence of a wormhole to claim some state of Sovereignty. Not to the same degree as nullsec but to some lesser form. Micro upgrades? You could tie this in with removing ABC's. A claimed wormhole could upgrade to get access to ABC's?

Stop trolling. You want the epeen boost of Sov, leave wh space and fight for some space.


 

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