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Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.22 00:14:00 - [1]
 

I have a few POS noob questions. And yes, I'm an alt -- just don't want to invite POS-ganking parties upfront. Hope you understand.

Okay, here goes.

1) My basic question revolves around how one can set up a POS, by a 1-man, high-sec corp, without getting immediately decced by every joker out there. I mean, how do others do this? And is it even doable? A POS costs some money, and some fuel; not a big deal, really. My primary concern is just the viability of the concept at large. I'm not a PvP-er; but even if I were the greatest and the badest, is my point, how does a single person defend their POS against, say, a 20 man corp coming in, for sh*ts and giggles, just to blow up your POS? Yes, you could hire mercs; but you can't do that indefinitely.

2) Related to my first question, how often do high-sec POS-es actually get attacked? Sorry again for the noobishness of my question, but I have as good as no data on this. All I know is that doing research at an NPC lab just isn't working out, and that getting my own POS is probably the only (viable?) solution.

3) I know I could join a player corp; but how do you trust them with your billion isk BPO? When the first rule of EVE is "Don't trust anyone!" Not meaning to sound overly paranoia, but, realistically, soon as I give that BPO to someone else, it's gone forever.

I hope someone can enlighten me a bit on these matters.

Thanks.

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.07.22 00:19:00 - [2]
 

1. if attacked just take the pos down. one man cant really defend the pos.

2. it isnt THAT common unless you **** people off and if you put your pos off in the ass end of space so there is less competition you are even safer. but up a bunch of ewar and a few guns and it will usually make people not dec you out of hand.

3. eh.. well.. *shrugs* no idea, you can always use one of the many research alliances and have them research it for you if you feel like it.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.22 00:21:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
1. if attacked just take the pos down. one man cant really defend the pos.

2. it isnt THAT common unless you **** people off and if you put your pos off in the ass end of space so there is less competition you are even safer. but up a bunch of ewar and a few guns and it will usually make people not dec you out of hand.

3. eh.. well.. *shrugs* no idea, you can always use one of the many research alliances and have them research it for you if you feel like it.


Thanks for your answers. :) I'll study them some more.

ChaoticDemon
Posted - 2011.07.22 01:32:00 - [4]
 

You can also join a research alliance if you only want to do me/pe research as long as the bpo doesn't require materials to research it. But as long as you don't annoy anyone is very little chance of wardec depending on locatation

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.22 02:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: ChaoticDemon
You can also join a research alliance if you only want to do me/pe research as long as the bpo doesn't require materials to research it. But as long as you don't annoy anyone is very little chance of wardec depending on locatation

Yeah, all I really need to do is ME/PE research; and going the NPC route, as I soon figured out, is a lost cause: you have to wait like a month per slot; then you can do your research at an unfavorable time multiplier; and then you can wait yet another month for your next round for a slot to even open up again. :(

I still don't understand, though, how joining a research alliance would protect me from them just taking my 1 bil BPO and keep it.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.22 03:01:00 - [6]
 

I did some preliminary numbers, and came to the following:

Standard Large Caldari Tower
2.750.000 = pg
7500 = cpu

100.000
500 = mobile lab
(3x = 1500 cpu; 300.000 pg)

120.000
600 = advanced lab
(1x)

(total labs: 2100 cpu; 420.000 pg)

citadel torpedo
160.000
160
(8x = 1280; 1280000 pg)

cruise missile
40.000
40
(16x = 640; 640000 pg)

Would be 4020 cpu + 2340000 pg when everything is online (doesn't need to be, of course; when the guns go online, the labs will naturally be dismantled).

It probably needs some ECM too. And maybe Citadel torpedos is a bit too large for highsec? (it's not like capitals can come in and take the POS out).

Some advice on the defensive fittings would be highly appreciated, too.

SurrenderMonkey
Posted - 2011.07.22 03:06:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 22/07/2011 03:07:20
Yeah, it turns out that shooting at a POS comes in second only to mining for "Most miserably boring activities known to Eve". I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Don't use missiles on your POS, even a Caldari one. If you really want to arm it, use projectiles.

Loki Sei
Posted - 2011.07.22 03:26:00 - [8]
 

Read this ... twice

Linkage

Rule 1) Don't **** people off
Rule 2) Don't setup 1 jump from Jita
Rule 3) Anchor a Ton of extra ECM and Guns offline and if attacked off-line the labs and online the defenses.

Really, if you get off the beaten path there are a lot of small corp alt corps with research labs. You won't stick out being in a small corp.





Calamity Jali
JelliBeans
Posted - 2011.07.22 12:32:00 - [9]
 

Eve mail me in game

mnybag2
Posted - 2011.07.22 12:32:00 - [10]
 

In terms of research at a pos from within a corporation, you do not need to give the BPO to anyone: all research can be done, and in fact should be done from station and can be done from your own personal bay.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.22 15:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: mnybag2
In terms of research at a pos from within a corporation, you do not need to give the BPO to anyone: all research can be done, and in fact should be done from station and can be done from your own personal bay.

This sounds very promising. :) So, I can just join a research corp, buy POS research time, and enter my jobs remotely, from an npc station? That would be ideal!

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:37:00 - [12]
 

1) If you setup your POS in a reasonably remote location, you shouldn't have any problems. If by some chance, a bored corp does find your 1 POS amongst 57 moons in a backwater system, and you don't feel like making it a mini death star, just tear it down. You have 24hrs notice before they can start shooting. That's more than enough time to pack up a small tower and lab, which is all you'd need for high sec research.

2) Research slots are few and far between, so a POS is much better. As stated, a small tower and lab is all you need. If you really want to make it defensible, throw a ton of ECM out there. They'll have to relock every 5sec, and get bored before long. Also as stated, find a nice backwater system with 57 moons, and anchor on one of the middle ones. Then they have to find themselves in that particular system, manually checking each and every moon, before they would find your POS.

3) Someone else already said it, but you don't have to trust anyone with anything. BPO are kept at an NPC station in the same system as the POS. The juiciest targets are the POS with labs, in systems without stations, because that says they had to store the BPO locally. So if you felt more like joining another corp, you don't need to worry about them running off with your stuff... usually.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.23 01:42:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
1) If you setup your POS in a reasonably remote location, you shouldn't have any problems. If by some chance, a bored corp does find your 1 POS amongst 57 moons in a backwater system, and you don't feel like making it a mini death star, just tear it down. You have 24hrs notice before they can start shooting. That's more than enough time to pack up a small tower and lab, which is all you'd need for high sec research.

2) Research slots are few and far between, so a POS is much better. As stated, a small tower and lab is all you need. If you really want to make it defensible, throw a ton of ECM out there. They'll have to relock every 5sec, and get bored before long. Also as stated, find a nice backwater system with 57 moons, and anchor on one of the middle ones. Then they have to find themselves in that particular system, manually checking each and every moon, before they would find your POS.

3) Someone else already said it, but you don't have to trust anyone with anything. BPO are kept at an NPC station in the same system as the POS. The juiciest targets are the POS with labs, in systems without stations, because that says they had to store the BPO locally. So if you felt more like joining another corp, you don't need to worry about them running off with your stuff... usually.


Very good advice! I'll be scouting for a suitable moon now! :) Thanks.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.07.24 23:06:00 - [14]
 

I'm appreciating this thread... in 2 an 1/2 years in the game i've never manufactured anything and figure, well , I should try a few industry things before I quit entirely (and thats an If too ; not a lot of eve competition otu there)

So,

Could anyone give me a rough upkeep cost of the 3 levels of posses... order of magnitude is all i'm loking for

like 25-60 million, 100-150 , 200-300 ..etc ?

I guess its just fuel costs and lets say cost based off of Jita offered prices (i know you need to transport it etc)

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.25 00:23:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon

3) Someone else already said it, but you don't have to trust anyone with anything. BPO are kept at an NPC station in the same system as the POS. The juiciest targets are the POS with labs, in systems without stations, because that says they had to store the BPO locally. So if you felt more like joining another corp, you don't need to worry about them running off with your stuff... usually.


The BPO's need to be in the corp hangar at the npc station to remotely research/build at your POS in the same system, so someone with the proper roles could take your stuff from the corp hangar.

You need to find not just a moon, but a suitable station in the same system as well. That narrows the list quite a bit. You want cheap office rent, open manufacturing in the station (you'll want it for sure if you plan on building anything other than ammo), and repair (invaluable for fixing partially used RAMs). Any other station services like refine and medical are bonus and can usually easily be found next-door to your office station.

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.07.25 00:38:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
I'm appreciating this thread... in 2 an 1/2 years in the game i've never manufactured anything and figure, well , I should try a few industry things before I quit entirely (and thats an If too ; not a lot of eve competition otu there)

So,

Could anyone give me a rough upkeep cost of the 3 levels of posses... order of magnitude is all i'm loking for

like 25-60 million, 100-150 , 200-300 ..etc ?

Google eve pos planner. You can see the per day/week/moth fuel requirements. Then use eve-central to look up component costs

I guess its just fuel costs and lets say cost based off of Jita offered prices (i know you need to transport it etc)

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:11:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Hockston Axe

The BPO's need to be in the corp hangar at the npc station to remotely research/build at your POS in the same system, so someone with the proper roles could take your stuff from the corp hangar.

You need to find not just a moon, but a suitable station in the same system as well. That narrows the list quite a bit. You want cheap office rent, open manufacturing in the station (you'll want it for sure if you plan on building anything other than ammo), and repair (invaluable for fixing partially used RAMs). Any other station services like refine and medical are bonus and can usually easily be found next-door to your office station.


Why does the BPO need to be in a station in the same system? Doesn't 'Scientific Networking' let me research from other systems?

Googling this, I also found a post by someone who said you need to be within 3,000m of your POS to start a job (?).

Little confused again.

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:17:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Dasola on 25/07/2011 07:19:07
Originally by: Mitara Kannell
Originally by: Hockston Axe

The BPO's need to be in the corp hangar at the npc station to remotely research/build at your POS in the same system, so someone with the proper roles could take your stuff from the corp hangar.

You need to find not just a moon, but a suitable station in the same system as well. That narrows the list quite a bit. You want cheap office rent, open manufacturing in the station (you'll want it for sure if you plan on building anything other than ammo), and repair (invaluable for fixing partially used RAMs). Any other station services like refine and medical are bonus and can usually easily be found next-door to your office station.


Why does the BPO need to be in a station in the same system? Doesn't 'Scientific Networking' let me research from other systems?

Googling this, I also found a post by someone who said you need to be within 3,000m of your POS to start a job (?).

Little confused again.


Thats how it works, it allows you to be x number of jumps away in same region, but bpo must still be in same system as pos. So you can launch research jobs from remote location. Think it as calling home with phone and telling your vcr to record show for you. ;)

Also that 3000 meters only applies if you try to launch research directly from lab at pos. As in you fly to your pos and bpo is inside the lab.


DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:18:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Mitara Kannell

Why does the BPO need to be in a station in the same system? Doesn't 'Scientific Networking' let me research from other systems?

Googling this, I also found a post by someone who said you need to be within 3,000m of your POS to start a job (?).

Little confused again.

1. Yes the BPO must be in the same system.
2. Yes You need to be at your pos to start a job.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:18:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon

3) Someone else already said it, but you don't have to trust anyone with anything. BPO are kept at an NPC station in the same system as the POS. The juiciest targets are the POS with labs, in systems without stations, because that says they had to store the BPO locally. So if you felt more like joining another corp, you don't need to worry about them running off with your stuff... usually.


Wait. So, if I were to join a player corp, wouldn't I have to give my BPO to the corp, to be put in the corp hangar? Or can I simply also start the job from my own hangar?

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mitara Kannell
Originally by: Marcus Gideon

3) Someone else already said it, but you don't have to trust anyone with anything. BPO are kept at an NPC station in the same system as the POS. The juiciest targets are the POS with labs, in systems without stations, because that says they had to store the BPO locally. So if you felt more like joining another corp, you don't need to worry about them running off with your stuff... usually.


Wait. So, if I were to join a player corp, wouldn't I have to give my BPO to the corp, to be put in the corp hangar? Or can I simply also start the job from my own hangar?


You need to put the blueprint in the corp hangar before you can start the job at the pos. A POS is a corp asset and can only perform corp-jobs.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dasola

Thats how it works, it allows you to be x number of jumps away in same region, but bpo must still be in same system as pos. So you can launch research jobs from remote location. Think it as calling home with phone and telling your vcr to record show for you. ;)



Thanks for the clarification. I finally understand how that works now. :) (also means I can cancel a petition, which was apparently based on my own ignorance).

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
Originally by: Mitara Kannell
Originally by: Marcus Gideon

3) Someone else already said it, but you don't have to trust anyone with anything. BPO are kept at an NPC station in the same system as the POS. The juiciest targets are the POS with labs, in systems without stations, because that says they had to store the BPO locally. So if you felt more like joining another corp, you don't need to worry about them running off with your stuff... usually.


Wait. So, if I were to join a player corp, wouldn't I have to give my BPO to the corp, to be put in the corp hangar? Or can I simply also start the job from my own hangar?

You need to put the blueprint in the corp hangar before you can start the job at the pos. A POS is a corp asset and can only perform corp-jobs.

So, as just a regular corp member I really *do* have to give my BPO to someone else!? (namely, to the powers that be in the player corp). I guess I really need to start my own corp then. Who knows, could be fun even. :)

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:39:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Mitara Kannell

So, as just a regular corp member I really *do* have to give my BPO to someone else!? (namely, to the powers that be in the player corp). I guess I really need to start my own corp then. Who knows, could be fun even. :)


It depends on how the corp is set up. If the roles and titles are correctly setup only directors and people with the correct roles can access your blueprints.

We setup titles for each project and each project gets its own hangar division. But really how you do it is up to you.

Page Starcaster
Gallente
Society of lost Souls
Posted - 2011.07.25 19:39:00 - [25]
 

one way many corps set up private corp hangers is they grant you access to one on the hanger divisions, then you place a secure container into that hanger division and lock it with a password protection. there will be others in the corp that can access that hanger division but will not be able to open your container without the password.

On another note, high sec POSes are fairly safe even if you are a one man corp. taking down a POS in high sec is a big task. even a small tower takes a few hours with 4-6 battleships. it is very rare to get war deced and attacked by a +20 ship fleet. Not to say it can not happen but it generally is not worth it as there is very little reward for the attacking corp for several hours invested. and as others have said POS bashing is right up there with mining for the most boring game activities.

If you do get war decced you have 24 hours after the ward dec before they can attack you. in that time you can take down the POS or offline all the labs and such and online all your defenses. As long as you keep all your BPs in a local station noty in the POS it self you will not have much to lose. A death star POS does not make an appealing target in high sec. They are to much work to kill for the low reward potential. If they just want to do a POS bash for kicks there are plenty around with no guns even anchored let alone online. If you anchor guns, even being offline they have to assume if they war dec you when they come to attack those guns will be online. Most will skip your POS if it looks well defended. Even if those defenses are off line.

I have seen several small towers with 2 advanced labs anchored and no defenses that have been there for at least 6 months with out getting attacked. I know this because I considered attacking them myself, but the effort required to even take down a small POS most of the time out ways the potential profit. POSes are generally only bashed in high sec as pay back for something else. Make the high sec pirates mad and they will attack your POS if you have one, but none do it for profit. but ignore them and they will ignore you.

Mitara Kannell
Posted - 2011.07.26 01:50:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Page Starcaster

On another note, high sec POSes are fairly safe even if you are a one man corp. taking down a POS in high sec is a big task. even a small tower takes a few hours with 4-6 battleships. it is very rare to get war deced and attacked by a +20 ship fleet. Not to say it can not happen but it generally is not worth it as there is very little reward for the attacking corp for several hours invested. and as others have said POS bashing is right up there with mining for the most boring game activities.

If you do get war decced you have 24 hours after the ward dec before they can attack you. in that time you can take down the POS or offline all the labs and such and online all your defenses. As long as you keep all your BPs in a local station noty in the POS it self you will not have much to lose. A death star POS does not make an appealing target in high sec. They are to much work to kill for the low reward potential. If they just want to do a POS bash for kicks there are plenty around with no guns even anchored let alone online. If you anchor guns, even being offline they have to assume if they war dec you when they come to attack those guns will be online. Most will skip your POS if it looks well defended. Even if those defenses are off line.

I have seen several small towers with 2 advanced labs anchored and no defenses that have been there for at least 6 months with out getting attacked. I know this because I considered attacking them myself, but the effort required to even take down a small POS most of the time out ways the potential profit. POSes are generally only bashed in high sec as pay back for something else. Make the high sec pirates mad and they will attack your POS if you have one, but none do it for profit. but ignore them and they will ignore you.


Thanks for the in-depth explanation, Page. :)

So, what do you (or anyone else, of course) make of the following tower? (only the gun/ecm layout; labs are offlined in this scenario, so don't count towards cpu/pg). Should I put even more ECM, intstead of guns? Or more large guns, instead of medium?

Fitting a POS is like EFT warrioring: I have a general idea of what I should fit, but could use some advice from people who have actually set one up before. :)


Fitting information for Tower 2 (Caldari Control Tower)

Structure (Status)
Domination Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Domination Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Domination Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Domination Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Domination Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Domination Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Domination Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Domination Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Domination Small Artillery Battery (Online)
Domination Small Artillery Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Sensor Dampening Battery (Online)
Sensor Dampening Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Scrambling Battery (Online)
Warp Scrambling Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 700 / 7500 (9,33%)
PG Usage: 2733000 / 2750000 (99,38%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.26 03:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos

2. Yes You need to be at your pos to start a job.


No you don't. I regularly start jobs while docked in station.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.07.26 03:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Page Starcaster
one way many corps set up private corp hangers is they grant you access to one on the hanger divisions, then you place a secure container into that hanger division and lock it with a password protection. there will be others in the corp that can access that hanger division but will not be able to open your container without the password.

I'm pretty sure, anyone with access to that hangar, can just repack your container, causing the password to reset as well as having all the contents spill out.

The only time passwords on containers are actually functional, are when they're anchored in space.

Although you might be able to pull it off with an audit log container, since those are a pain in the ass to repack.

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.26 07:04:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 02/08/2011 06:05:13
Originally by: Loki Sei
Read this ... twice

Linkage




Read that linked thread a third time. Large guns are anti-capital weapons, you don't need them in highsec. I'd lose the faction guns and just use regular. Faction stuff just shows off and says, 'attack me it'll hurt me more.' Also without gunners (anchoring 5 -> starbase defense management) to man all your guns they'll spend most of their time randomly switching targets and locking instead of firing. Lots of ECM to be an annoying target in highsec is usually best.

Originally by: Page Starcaster
one way many corps set up private corp hangers is they grant you access to one on the hanger divisions, then you place a secure container into that hanger division and lock it with a password protection. there will be others in the corp that can access that hanger division but will not be able to open your container without the password.


Also to what MG said above you need to put your bpo into the corp hangar itself to use it, you can't use it from inside a container in the hangar. So anyone with the proper roles could also always just deliver your jobs and take the bpos from the corp hangar. It's always a trust game with proper role holders with corp jobs.

Zain Stone
Posted - 2011.07.28 11:31:00 - [30]
 

Fit the pos with loads of ECM, Hardeners and a few scrams/disruptors/webs and spread them out around the pos.

Basically, make it so they have to be at the screen for a very long time pressing buttons with nothing happening and some of them won't even be able to warp out. If you do this then they will be soooooo bored, by the thought of attacking the pos I doubt they will bother attacking it. Of course all this can be offline, if its an empire pos, until a war starts. That's as long as you don't upset anyone enough to make them wanna do it.


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