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blankseplocked [Proposal] EVE needs MT for skill points to survive.
 
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MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.07.23 16:12:00 - [31]
 

no it does not...

people spend lots of time training up chars to sell them...

if anything make the character bazzar apart of the arum store....

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:49:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu
Its not the skill points that are the issue though man, its the fact that most new players when they try the game have no clue what to do. When I started out, I had no clue about focusing my skill training, or how to remap my stats properly.

I had a few friends that I met that actually started helping me out and including me in doing things with them. That made the game fun. We as a community need to make the new player experience better by helping them and including them in activities. The game needs to improve on the new player experience by adding things to help them out and provide enjoyment for them while they train as well.

Mainly its on the community not the game mechanics that will keep or drive players away from the game, and we need to step up to the plate and actively try to keep these players by showing them what is out there in the game and help them with setting up training ques for what they want to do.


I agree, the ball is not all in CCP's hands at all is it? Does anything come to your mind to try to sway others to this point? We have a good amount that try to uphold the cold harsh world idea but its almost exclusive as if treating a noob friendly is a sign of weakness. The schools we have are good but I'm not sure they address the 2 to 4 week hump as well as personal welcoming. I think the shaping we do in the beginning is important too. Surprise Noob ganking only seems to make them greedy withdrawn PVE'ers.

I've drifted off topic, perhaps we need a proposal for the players instead of CCP.

The Hardman
Amarr
Uncle Fester's Olde Tyme Barbershoppe
Posted - 2011.07.24 06:22:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch
no it does not...

people spend lots of time training up chars to sell them...

if anything make the character bazzar apart of the arum store....


That is actually a good point.

There were already two sources of 'MT' in EVE prior to the Aurum Store:
1. PLEX
2. Character Bazaar

Both impact the game, about as much as allowing characters in accounts less than 1 year old buy the accelerator implant.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.24 06:53:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: The Hardman
Originally by: MeBiatch
no it does not...

people spend lots of time training up chars to sell them...

if anything make the character bazzar apart of the arum store....


That is actually a good point.

There were already two sources of 'MT' in EVE prior to the Aurum Store:
1. PLEX
2. Character Bazaar

Both impact the game, about as much as allowing characters in accounts less than 1 year old buy the accelerator implant.


taken individually, sure, but if you add skill acceleration, then you make a explosive disruption in the game more than any one of these individually can make.

(you institutionalize character farming and make it very easy)

Also those other 2 means have legitamate uses, (allowing people to play for free, or sell their subscription time, and splitting accounts respectively. SP cheating's only use is to get ahead of others for MT.

Sarrgon
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.07.24 23:43:00 - [35]
 

Well beg to differ on that, when you buy a char from the bazaar you are buying the SP, not the toon. People don't go looking to buy a char cause of the name or race etc. They buy it cause it has the SP they want. To fly the ships and mods they want. Yes someone has done the time in training on it, but the person bought it cause they didn't want to do the training. No matter where the Sp came from they are buying SP.

So if CCP does ever do this service in any form, just is an extension to what already exists. Just would be another way for anyone to get the SP, whether they use just ISK or buy plexes to achieve it. This way just opens up more ways of getting to your goal.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.07.25 03:57:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Tuggboat


I think I will use this argument with them if it comes up

Quote:
Consider this: If I'm flying an Amarrian freighter, the 8 million skill points I have in gunnery the 5 million in missiles the million or so in T3 subsystems the millions in caldari and minmatar, not to mention capital ships the millions in drones all of those are COMPLETELY TOTALLY UTTERLY USELESS.


Thanks D, very simple!


No charge.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 14:06:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Sarrgon
Well beg to differ on that, when you buy a char from the bazaar you are buying the SP, not the toon. People don't go looking to buy a char cause of the name or race etc. They buy it cause it has the SP they want. To fly the ships and mods they want. Yes someone has done the time in training on it, but the person bought it cause they didn't want to do the training. No matter where the Sp came from they are buying SP.

So if CCP does ever do this service in any form, just is an extension to what already exists. Just would be another way for anyone to get the SP, whether they use just ISK or buy plexes to achieve it. This way just opens up more ways of getting to your goal.


Please read the rest of the thread first as this has already been hashed out.
its not the same. 1) institutionalizing something bad is worse. 2) its not the same as the bazaar SOMEBODY has paid the TIME to get the SPs. And once sold, the fruits of that effort moves with the character. Selling SP is not the same, as the time penalty was never paid by anyone.

I don't do the explanations justice as they weren't mine, but just read the thread again so that you don't waste anyone elses time.

Darryl Ward
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:54:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Darryl Ward on 25/07/2011 17:54:27
Originally by: The Hardman
Some of the reason why fewer people are joining EVE is because they feel that they can't catch up on skillpoints to those of us who have been in EVE for years


That's correct, they can't. I only started a year or so ago, I'm having fun. You don't need to be able to fly Titans to enjoy this game. I like the way the skill system statifies players into capabilities based on skill level. Even a week old noob can find important stuff to do in 0.0 warfare, after several months you should be able to handle anything PvE, with a group if necessary.

You don't need to buy SP to have fun in this game, and that's why we play, to have fun.

The only one thing I would like to see is neural remaps for plex, as few as 1 remap per year for a plex would be good enough. Beyond that, no SP buying.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.26 07:28:00 - [39]
 

Quote:
Some of the reason why fewer people are joining EVE is because they feel that they can't catch up on skillpoints to those of us who have been in EVE for years


You can't catchup. That is the point. Can you catchup to people in real life? Can a freshmen catchup to a senior in uni? Can you catchup to your siblings?

Manique
Caldari
Ominous Corp
Posted - 2011.07.26 13:35:00 - [40]
 

not supported just because even if you can't catch up skill points wise, you can become deadly if you understand what your current skills can do and if you understand game mechanics
also you can buy characters from others which basicaly means catching up and most times even surpasing most characters. so basicaly there is already a very nice and clean way to do what you want to do.

Sapphire Fangborn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:03:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Sapphire Fangborn on 27/07/2011 05:03:35
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Quote:
Some of the reason why fewer people are joining EVE is because they feel that they can't catch up on skillpoints to those of us who have been in EVE for years


You can't catchup. That is the point. Can you catchup to people in real life? Can a freshmen catchup to a senior in uni? Can you catchup to your siblings?



When it comes to real life and real world business, some people will beat others in spite of the time factors involved. Hehe. :D

I've been unable to get some friends into Eve, mostly because of a mindset against any games that have been around for a long time. They get into games when they're new and then stick around to become uber vets, they refuse to be noobs in a game that's already got big boys etc. I don't think that faster training times would change that mentality.

Personally, I do not find Eve's training time a deterrent. It's a very interesting game. Wink If I get to a point where the training time is making me jump up and down, I'll do something else while the training gets where I want it to be.

I understand the plex and character trading (micro) transactions to be a mechanism that counters illegal gold farmers/character trading outfits. I don't regard these to be products of the Eve economy, although that's a smooth rationalization. Both plex and character purchases give tangible ingame benefit for real world money. Still CCP benefits, goldfarmers lose, and it could keep Eve Online thriving in bad economical times. So that's enough for me.

Sapph

David Fightmaster
Gallente
The Black Legionnares
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.27 17:29:00 - [42]
 

I dont support this proposal. No newplayer should be able to come in and just have it easy. I for one wish my characters could catch up to other players with higher sp, but I also know they had their accounts longer than I and had the time and patience to have that high sp. New players should just learn to wait for things like the rest of the community or go play World of Warcraft where there is a level cap.

tika te
Posted - 2011.07.28 13:26:00 - [43]
 

no and never.
i've been playing this game for over six years now. it took this whole time to "earn" all the sp i have now; it took patience and a plan.

i simply don't want to see any two months old player catching up just bc of RL money. i want him (or her) to have to wait like i did.
i earned that advantage in hard currency (time) and never should one be able to simply buy this "achievement".

The Hardman
Amarr
Uncle Fester's Olde Tyme Barbershoppe

Posted - 2011.07.31 12:11:00 - [44]
 

Maybe I just have too many characters with moderate to high SP (although I don't have near as much as some players), but I just don't see SP as any sort of achievement.

It definitely isn't something to be proud of or valued.

But I know that many of the people who leave EVE leave because they feel they can never catch up. There is no 'level 80' that is the max level, which would cause them to catch up to those of us who have been playing a long time.

Now yes, many players who have played for a while understand that there is an effective level on different ships. I can't get any more SP that improve my ability to fly a zealot for example. But new(ish) players come from other MMOs where this is not the case, so they haven't internalized this.

ISK is actually the more correct 'level' in EVE, and we have had GTCs/Plexs/etc for a long time (and no one suggests they go away).

And yes, as already mentioned people can buy a character with ISK. But people still often identify with their characters, and this is not a solution at all for new characters.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.31 12:55:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: The Hardman
but I just don't see SP as any sort of achievement.

It definitely isn't something to be proud of or valued.


Can you justify this stance? SP learning path is a long process. You can waste time training the wrong thing, you can be impatient and train the pilot skills or you can play it slow and stead and train core skills. It's a strategy, much like choosing your major in uni.

I believe it is the *only* level mechanic in EVE.


Quote:
Now yes, many players who have played for a while understand that there is an effective level on different ships. I can't get any more SP that improve my ability to fly a zealot for example. But new(ish) players come from other MMOs where this is not the case, so they haven't
internalized this.



I think most people who enjoy EVE would agree that these players should just stick to playing wow or SW Galaxies (oops that one died, I don't remember why).

Quote:

ISK is actually the more correct 'level' in EVE, and we have had GTCs/Plexs/etc for a long time (and no one suggests they go away).



I disagree here. ISK can be bought, stolen, loaned, etc. Isk is less of a level differentiator than SP (more precisely, learned skills, not just raw SP), or standings.


Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.07.31 14:45:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 31/07/2011 14:46:37
Originally by: David Fightmaster
I dont support this proposal. No newplayer should be able to come in and just have it easy. I for one wish my characters could catch up to other players with higher sp, but I also know they had their accounts longer than I and had the time and patience to have that high sp. New players should just learn to wait for things like the rest of the community or go play World of Warcraft where there is a level cap.


Your opinion is bad even though I don`t support buying SP. I`m sick and tired of words "earned" and "easy" and such. All it means you paid money to CCP and waited, nothing more. No accomplishment, nada.

Nite Piper
Posted - 2011.07.31 15:14:00 - [47]
 

No.

More people would leave over this than stay.
I promise you. I'm absolutely certain.

Let those who want to be instant gods go play other games. We don't need their kind in EVE.

Charlie Jacobson
Posted - 2011.08.01 03:03:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: souhyeahright
Counter-proposal: drink bleach.

Night Chill
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:12:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: The Hardman
Some of the reason why fewer people are joining EVE is because they feel that they can't catch up on skillpoints to those of us who have been in EVE for years.

I know this is the case, I have had people who joined and then left because of this.

It is a serious issue. It is likely a real reason why we have less people joining EVE now.

So there should be MT to allow people to speed up skill acquisition on their characters. Maybe even give them the Accelerator. Limit it to 'new accounts' (ones less than 1 year old).


This has to be a false argument and people are missing something in their logic.

A person who has trained all their core frigate skills and small weapons skills can match someone who is a lot older and is flying a similar craft even though they might have lots more skill points in total. It is only the skill points you have for the ship you are flying, its defense and weapons systems that count. So somebody with 5 million skill points all concentrated in frigates can take on somebody with 60 million skill points spread across every facet of the game.

A gang of newbies in frigates can do awsome damage when under the guidance of a good FC.

So where is the problem?

Maybe the issue is education of new starters. Maybe player corps shouldn't be putting a minimum limit on the skill points of player applicants they are willing to accept. Maybe by taking new players and training them in the facets of the game, there would be a better retention of new players in the game. The most effective players are the ones who are team players. Skill points are important. Total skill points is meaningless.

CanIPost Please
Posted - 2011.08.01 07:07:00 - [50]
 

It's disingenuous to say "any player with 5 million skillpoints in frigates can beat any other player with 5 million skillpoints in frigates, when they're flying frigates". What you're basically saying is "noobs should fly frigates, and maybe I'll come down to their level, if I have such a whim". Of course it suits players with older characters to say that newer players shouldn't have as many skillpoints or options in the game. Older-character players are just protecting their advantage. I happen to think that many older-character players would rather ride the game into the ground than see newer players become anywhere near as successful or powerful in-game as them. Hence, they'd rather people walk away from the game or never try the game than even up the odds A LITTLE BIT.

The funny thing about the argument that skillpoints don't really matter is that, if they didn't matter, people with more of them wouldn't try so hard to keep people with less of them from gaining more. If skillpoints aren't important, then let noobs just have some. Who cares? Right?

I think the noob perspective is often "I can wait 2 or 3 months to be able to play this game well enough to enjoy it or I can go play Call Of Duty and compete right now . . . hmmmm . . . **** this game!". And, really, who wants to wait a month to be able to fly a cool ship? If I wanted to wait years for success, I'd go to college. The reason veteran players are OK with waiting is because they've already done the waiting, not because they think its fair or speeding up the process would ruin the game, so come off your high-horse.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.08.01 12:58:00 - [51]
 

OMG NO!

If you aks me, it's your proposal that will kill Eve.

/Not supported, no way, no how.

Night Chill
Posted - 2011.08.01 22:22:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: CanIPost Please
It's disingenuous to say "any player with 5 million skillpoints in frigates can beat any other player with 5 million skillpoints in frigates, when they're flying frigates". What you're basically saying is "noobs should fly frigates, and maybe I'll come down to their level, if I have such a whim".


Well I was part of a roam through null sec last night with a fleet of 11 thorax cruisers with all T1 fits. Even had small auto cannons on them rather than medium blasters. The majority of the fleet consisted of players who were only 2 weeks off their trial account. We took out a number of ships (one at a time) flown by older players and didn't even lose a single thorax. It was rather disconcerting actually because it was supposed to be a suicide mission. We had intent to lose our ships and possibly get podded.

This exercise proves my point.


Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:38:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 01/08/2011 23:39:41
Originally by: CanIPost Please
It's disingenuous to say "any player with 5 million skillpoints in frigates can beat any other player with 5 million skillpoints in frigates, when they're flying frigates". What you're basically saying is "noobs should fly frigates, and maybe I'll come down to their level, if I have such a whim". Of course it suits players with older characters to say that newer players shouldn't have as many skillpoints or options in the game. Older-character players are just protecting their advantage. I happen to think that many older-character players would rather ride the game into the ground than see newer players become anywhere near as successful or powerful in-game as them. Hence, they'd rather people walk away from the game or never try the game than even up the odds A LITTLE BIT




Congratulations, please add yourself to the Econ 101 flunkies list.
We are protecting the universal economy and everyone right to a fair system. In American terms, we are protecting everyones FREEDOMs and liberties.

Again, sp buying is EXACTLY like counterfeiting money.
Character bazaar is FINE and does not disturb the economy because somebody EARNED those sp. They contributed to the economy to do it, as well ( in so far as they sat and studied and paid for skillbooks. Most importantly they took the time.

Isk buying with plex is FINE because it's abuse is controlled by the market. If too many buy isk with plex then the price will drop and it gets cheaper for people to buy game time with isk, benefitting the economy. Besides isk isn't the level gauge in eve, it's sp anyhow. The richest person in eve still has to wait X months to pilot a Titan

Stop trying to circumvent the system and print your own cash.

CanIPost Please
Posted - 2011.08.02 00:47:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Night Chill
heartwarming irrelevance


11 cruisers > 1 ratting Raven . . . cool. Moving on . . .

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Congratulations, please add yourself to the Econ 101 flunkies list.


I passed economics in 2 weeks.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
We are protecting the universal economy and everyone right to a fair system. In American terms, we are protecting everyones FREEDOMs and liberties.


Unless you are actually an America (U.S. citizen), stfu. And, if you are an American, SHUT THE **** UP, *****! Who do you think you are? George Washington?

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Again, sp buying is EXACTLY like counterfeiting money.


Buying skillpoints is like buying a car. You pay the manufacturer, be it Toyota or CCP, to create something for you to own and utilize as you see fit. Sometimes you give them all the money up front. Sometimes, you pay it in installments. To say that sitting and waiting while paying your EVE subscription is a more noble, honest way of earning more "Win" buttons than plopping down some hard earned cash-money for those "Win" buttons is like saying walking the streets every night dressed like a prostitute, waiting to get sexually assaulted, is a more noble, honest way of getting laid than getting drunk at a frat party. Either way, you're ****ed. (no pun intended)

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Character bazaar is FINE and does not disturb the economy because somebody EARNED those sp. They contributed to the economy to do it, as well ( in so far as they sat and studied and paid for skillbooks. Most importantly they took the time.


So, as long as someone buys all the skillbooks from the market before they instantly max them out, it's all good? And, skillbooks are bought from NPC's, for the most part, so that contributes nothing to the economy. As for the time factor . . . why make people wait? We're all dying pieces of meat. Time is our most precious resource. Maybe we don't want to blow it waiting for the balls to drop on a cartoon character on our computer monitor.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Isk buying with plex is FINE because it's abuse is controlled by the market. If too many buy isk with plex then the price will drop and it gets cheaper for people to buy game time with isk, benefitting the economy. Besides isk isn't the level gauge in eve, it's sp anyhow.


ISK buying is not just influenced by the desire of people to get ISK for PLEX, but by the desire of people to get PLEX with ISK, so if there's a lot of ISK lying around, people will just go ahead and fork over a little more for a PLEX. Also, they will invest their ISK in new accounts for new characters to increase the number of skillpoints they are accumulating . . . i.e., they'll buy skillpoints with that excess ISK. In fact, this is probably the whole reasoning for CCP creating PLEX, to kill excess ISK out of the game economy by having people trade them for skillpoints that they can't ever use, because, after all, they're only one person.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
The richest person in eve still has to wait X months to pilot a Titan


The richest person in EVE can buy a Titan pilot TODAY with ISK from the character bazaar, but thanks for playing.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.02 13:51:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 02/08/2011 14:41:12

Passed Econ? Really? Then you must have cheated on the exam as you skipped over the part about a closed economy.

Why is it hard for you to understand the concept that buying a character is fine because somebody paid the sp training time to get those skills like Titan piloting.**

Let me break it down to you all easy like:
Make it able to BUY sp and you will have a pile of Titan pilots OVERNIGHT.
This scenario cannot happen with just character bazaar sellers because the growth is organic. (as the game was intended) If they sell the toon, the they transferred the ability to pilot a titan to the buyer. ZERO SUM GAME.

Noooo it's NOT like buying a Toyota I'm afraid. A Toyota car COST the company some money to produce. This money is IN SYSTEM. Buying sp is using EXTERNAL money to interact with the system. LIKE CONTERFEITING money in real life. Get it?

**For those of you who have yet to enter university, I apologize, I do not expect you to understand how economies work. I will explain it to you in a less sarcastic way, assuming that you know nothing:

Why is character purchase OK and doesn't hurt the economy/play balance:
!: assume it costs 6 months to train for a Titan
2: Everyone who joins the game is needs to pay 6months worth of training time to fly a titan.
3: Once trained, you will need to buy a titan, with isk.
4: a character farmer, joins, plays and pays CCP for 6 months of game, training for a Titan.
5: assume the # of Titan pilots in the WHOLE EVE UNIVERSE is 100. (this is an example make that number whatever you want)
6: at the end of 6 months, there will be 101 titan pilots.
KEY POINT
7: if user SELLS his titan pilot character, THERE WILL STILL BE 101 TITAN PILOTS IN THE UNIVERSE.

All is Good.

IF YOU ALLOW SP BUYING AKA COUNTERFEITING, AKA META-GAMING THE ECONOMY:

1: Ever person who has Real Money to spend in playing this game, will pay to be able to pilot a titan IMMEDIATELY
2: The number of Titan pilots in New Eden will shoot up from 100 to 100+++ in a very short time, depending ONLY ON THE WILLINGNESS OF PEOPLE TO PAY REAL CASH TO 'ENJOY' EVE. NOT on the real natural growth and development of a character playing in the game naturally.
3: add to this the ability for people to BUY ISK with real money (though moderated via PLEX prices) you will have TITANS everywhere overnight.... no, actually more likely as Titans cannot be built that easily, you will have a sharp spike in Titan DEMAND with no SUPPLY, causing prices of Titans to SHOOT UP uncontrollably.

This is the reason why everyone who argues with the OP has no understanding of economics. The real world have laws against this kind of system abuse. (counterfeiting laws - IE laws to prevent money creation out of nowhere) If we allowed counterfeiting, then inflation would skyrocket and you would have a Zimbabwe situation.

The weak Toyota car analogy is a complete fallacy. That person was essentially arguing that if he wants to pay for a benefit or luxury, then he should be able to. What is is blind to realizing is that buying a car in real life means using the real life currency which was 'earned' somehow (by working a job presumably) His analogy is more correct if he changed it to be "I should be able to buy a Toyota with MONOPOLY money." Or "I should be able to buy a PhD degree in Economics without actually studying because I know the Dean of the School.***



For advanced scholars only---
***These are not perfect analogies, as they technically still take place IN the economic system of real life. In the car case, the company loses revenue for giving away a free car, and in the university degree one, you have a person who has a degree but is clueless about economics. To be TECHNICALLY ACCURATE, the analogies should be "snap my fingers and get a new Toyota out of thin air via MAGIC, and get an university education via a brain dump instantaneously. Both premises would lead to a very chaotic world, either a utopia, or a 'brave new world'



CanIPost Please
Posted - 2011.08.02 15:12:00 - [56]
 

OK, so, there is really no such thing as a "closed economy". It is theoretically possible, but practically, no matter how hard we have thought about it, we cannot come up with a way to keep value/energy/information from entering and leaving a system, and by some derivative of the law of entropy, the value/energy/information (currency) density and distribution within a system and outside but adhesive to that system are always in the process of normalizing.

Anyway, here's where we're diverging in our understanding. You think that people pay their "time" to CCP to get skillpoints. I think that people pay their "money" to CCP to get skillpoints. So, you think that people should die a little more before getting their skillpoints and I think that people should just pay a little more before getting their skillpoints. But, let me ask you this: What if someone pre-paid CCP for 10,000 accounts for long enough to train them all to fly a titan? There would still be a glut of titan pilots in your system.

It wouldn't happen, though, because the scarce commodity in the equation is not time, which is always flowing, but rather is money, which is not always being earned and is not always being spent. Either way, the price of "earning" a titan pilot would be measured in money, not time, because an infinite number of titan pilots could be trained in the same span of time that one titan pilot could be trained. It would just take an infinite amount of money.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.08.02 19:00:00 - [57]
 

Wow, these insta gratification people who fail at Eve and don't understand an MMO needs progression and players making choices and tradeoffs, are still whinging and refusing to deal with Eve not being a dumb enough game for them.

Anyone else get the feeling they've never been told no before in their lives, and their parents lied to them about being able to achieve anything?

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.02 19:39:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: souhyeahright
Counter-proposal: drink bleach.


This.
More skillpoints only give better performance up to a hard limit, after that all they give is more variety. Catching up is perfectly feasible and the OP is an idiot.

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.08.02 20:50:00 - [59]
 

+1 on the bleach proposal.

Skillpoints level the playing field across all RL financial situations. If you can't handle the fact that your mom's credit card can't buy you a 1-click win spaceship, give your stuff to someone and biomass.

Navarone Medion
Posted - 2011.08.02 22:12:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Lykouleon
Biomass your characters and never come back.


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