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B00T INI
Posted - 2011.07.23 09:32:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Martinez
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Martinez
Originally by: Mag's
It must be a new forum record, for the most fail RL analogies in one thread.
Congrats.



lol i like how they are fail since you cannot dispute them.
Dispute RL analogies to a game of internet spaceships, yea I'll get right on it. Laughing



it was to a previous poster after you commented on them. stfu.


Problem is, you failed even harder by trying to use RL analogies than you did in the first place when you cried that someone stole someone elses wreck and you couldn't do anything about it but stomp your feet because you are too incompetent to have someone at the ready to scoop loot.

Johnny Aideron
Posted - 2011.07.23 12:21:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Johnny Aideron on 23/07/2011 12:21:40
Edited by: Johnny Aideron on 23/07/2011 12:21:26
But a boxing match is between consenting participants. A hauler that gets ganked by a heavily armed battlecruiser is not an opponent in the ring of honour, but more like a mugging victim in a dark alleyway. And the battlecruiser pilot would be the mugger who beats up the victim and then complains when another thief shows up out of nowhere and runs off with the victim's wallet.

To use another analogy... Let's say that Jimmy was playing with his toy car in a nursery, but then he started crying because he remembered that mummy and daddy had been shouting at each other and then he heard the sound of smashing glass, then mummy ran off with blood streaming down her neck and the police came to take daddy away. Then Sarah shows up and takes his toy car away from him, so he gives Sarah a lecture of the theory and ethics of property ownership. Then a lion and an antelope appear.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.23 13:10:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Martinez
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Martinez
Originally by: Mag's
It must be a new forum record, for the most fail RL analogies in one thread.
Congrats.



lol i like how they are fail since you cannot dispute them.
Dispute RL analogies to a game of internet spaceships, yea I'll get right on it. Laughing



it was to a previous poster after you commented on them. stfu.
U MAD BRO?

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.23 14:07:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Martinez
it was to a previous poster after you commented on them. stfu.
U MAD BRO?

M8 u jus jelly u can't be pr0 in hi-sec where the big-bwoys play.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.23 14:10:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 23/07/2011 14:17:09
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Martinez
it was to a previous poster after you commented on them. stfu.
U MAD BRO?

M8 u jus jelly u can't be pr0 in hi-sec where the big-bwoys play.
U is rite bud, I is jelly. Sad

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:25:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Johnny Aideron
Edited by: Johnny Aideron on 23/07/2011 12:21:40
Edited by: Johnny Aideron on 23/07/2011 12:21:26
But a boxing match is between consenting participants. A hauler that gets ganked by a heavily armed battlecruiser is not an opponent in the ring of honour, but more like a mugging victim in a dark alleyway. And the battlecruiser pilot would be the mugger who beats up the victim and then complains when another thief shows up out of nowhere and runs off with the victim's wallet.

To use another analogy... Let's say that Jimmy was playing with his toy car in a nursery, but then he started crying because he remembered that mummy and daddy had been shouting at each other and then he heard the sound of smashing glass, then mummy ran off with blood streaming down her neck and the police came to take daddy away. Then Sarah shows up and takes his toy car away from him, so he gives Sarah a lecture of the theory and ethics of property ownership. Then a lion and an antelope appear.


we pay to legal mug them.

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.23 18:39:00 - [37]
 

not mad in any way. i am suprised at the stupidity of some of the eve community, but not mad at all. dont think two characters that dont do empire warfare and a character that doesnt undock have any idea what i am talking about. its very clear you do not. thank you for your posts clearing up the matter that you dont understand but this is about empire war mechanics.

Ask yourself with current mechanics is there any way to kill a noob corp loot stealer? noob corp thrashers is 250m from the ship before it pops. it dies, he scoops he warps. he can stay docked for 15mins or return to the field where the can creator is knowing the can creator will kill anyone that can kill him over can the can flag.

lets say the victims corp gets in fleet to come kill the noob corp loot stealer. they land on the battlefield and have two targets one that fits guns and is a pvp ship that shoots back or a speed thrasher with salvagers on. which one is attacked. again the thrasher has already dropped off the loot he stole. as stated before, no "REALISTIC" THREAT TO THEM.

Cendric De'Credsiu
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:05:00 - [38]
 

What you are asking for is the ability to steal and not be stolen from. Its part of the risk of being a high sec war dec corp.

The Loot Thief already has to deal with the agro timer for the loot he stole from the owner of the ship and his corp.

Once again as you can not seem to get this threw your thick skull. THE LOOT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU, IT BELONGS TO THE OWNER OF THE SHIP THAT YOU KILLED. AS SUCH THEY GET RETALIATION RIGHTS NOT YOU.

You want to own the loot then go mission, you want to be able to shoot at folks that steals the loot outa a wreck of a player you just killed then get out of high sec. Its that simple.

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:33:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu
What you are asking for is the ability to steal and not be stolen from. Its part of the risk of being a high sec war dec corp.

The Loot Thief already has to deal with the agro timer for the loot he stole from the owner of the ship and his corp.

Once again as you can not seem to get this threw your thick skull. THE LOOT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU, IT BELONGS TO THE OWNER OF THE SHIP THAT YOU KILLED. AS SUCH THEY GET RETALIATION RIGHTS NOT YOU.

You want to own the loot then go mission, you want to be able to shoot at folks that steals the loot outa a wreck of a player you just killed then get out of high sec. Its that simple.


no

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.23 20:44:00 - [40]
 

Moar Tears please.

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:04:00 - [41]
 

lol yes tears. only thing that bothers me is the amount of carebear wow players crying about people want to shoot theives.

Industrial Frontbone
Posted - 2011.07.25 15:42:00 - [42]
 

this subject is up for review by the csm.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:54:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Industrial Frontbone
this subject is up for review by the csm.


Proof?

Oh an 42 posts and no one is supporting it. Says a lot.


Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.25 19:52:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Industrial Frontbone
this subject is up for review by the csm.


Proof?

Oh an 42 posts and no one is supporting it. Says a lot.




well since the csm subjects are points based and the subject doesnt effect many people at all i can understand that.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:38:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Martinez

well since the csm subjects are points based and the subject doesnt effect many people at all i can understand that.


Bolded the important part. CCP won't make such a drastic change in EVE just for a small handful of people.

The current CSM is still discussing things with CCP that that first CSM discussed with them *cough* POSes and corp management for example. Hell everyone is still trying to get CCP to make the font larger as it's next to impossible to read on bigger monitors and/or higher resolutions.

While I do not support your idea, I wish you the best on your endeavor for it!


Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:47:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Martinez

well since the csm subjects are points based and the subject doesnt effect many people at all i can understand that.


Bolded the important part. CCP won't make such a drastic change in EVE just for a small handful of people.

The current CSM is still discussing things with CCP that that first CSM discussed with them *cough* POSes and corp management for example. Hell everyone is still trying to get CCP to make the font larger as it's next to impossible to read on bigger monitors and/or higher resolutions.

While I do not support your idea, I wish you the best on your endeavor for it!




just becasuse it doesnt effect alot of people doesnt mean it doesnt need to change. while on the subject, when you kill a npc, whos loot is it? if someone steals the npcs loot you can kill them right?

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:07:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Martinez
when you kill a npc, whos loot is it? if someone steals the npcs loot you can kill them right?


You do have a point with this. However I believe the RP backstory behind it is that since NPCs have bounties on them which are paid by CONCORD, that CONCORD allows you to claim the loot for killing them.

Now if CONCORD is going to start paying me for every player I kill, I can see your point.




Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:04:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Martinez on 25/07/2011 23:11:26
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Martinez
when you kill a npc, whos loot is it? if someone steals the npcs loot you can kill them right?


You do have a point with this. However I believe the RP backstory behind it is that since NPCs have bounties on them which are paid by CONCORD, that CONCORD allows you to claim the loot for killing them.

Now if CONCORD is going to start paying me for every player I kill, I can see your point.






so if it is sanctioned by concord all is good? hmmm interesting.

Delfain
Posted - 2011.07.27 01:10:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Delfain on 27/07/2011 01:16:02
For the record, while I understand your reasons for wanting this change, I still disagree with the merits of your arguments in favor of this change. I continue to support the current theft flagging mechanics unless a better idea can be proposed.

EDIT: Just had a thought. I remember someone proposing an alternative in the thread that begat this one, wherein the wardec'ing corporation pays extra for exclusive loot rights. Also, another alternative I just thought of and like even better, perhaps a non-interference clause in the Yulai Conventions that give the wardec'ing corporation the right to a discounted and/or shorter-timed war-dec on the thief's corporation or on just the thief himself. (still with paying for the right to the short single pilot aggression timer.)

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.27 02:56:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Delfain
Edited by: Delfain on 27/07/2011 01:16:02
For the record, while I understand your reasons for wanting this change, I still disagree with the merits of your arguments in favor of this change. I continue to support the current theft flagging mechanics unless a better idea can be proposed.

EDIT: Just had a thought. I remember someone proposing an alternative in the thread that begat this one, wherein the wardec'ing corporation pays extra for exclusive loot rights. Also, another alternative I just thought of and like even better, perhaps a non-interference clause in the Yulai Conventions that give the wardec'ing corporation the right to a discounted and/or shorter-timed war-dec on the thief's corporation or on just the thief himself. (still with paying for the right to the short single pilot aggression timer.)


mine would be easier. very clear. you steal there are reprcussions. not like now.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.07.27 03:16:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Martinez

mine would be easier. very clear. you steal there are reprcussions. not like now.


It's like that now. You steal from the owner and there are repercussions.


Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.07.27 04:07:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 27/07/2011 04:08:53
So wait, what?

Adam and Bob get into a fight, with Chuck sitting on the sidelines watching.

Adam blows up Bob's ship.

Bob's wreck belongs to Bob's corp.

But since Adam already has aggro to Bob's corp, he can take the loot without problems.

If Chuck takes the loot from Bob's wreck, he will gain aggro to Bob's corp.

So when Bob and his corp get back to the wreck, they can continue shooting at Adam, and can start shooting at Chuck as well.


Sounds like repercussions already exist.

Hence why this thread has ZERO support so far. Laughing

Concord is not your mommy, for you to run to saying "He stole my cookie!"

Concord is your dad, saying "Well, kick his ass and get your cookie back!"

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.27 06:06:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 27/07/2011 04:08:53
So wait, what?

Adam and Bob get into a fight, with Chuck sitting on the sidelines watching.

Adam blows up Bob's ship.

Bob's wreck belongs to Bob's corp.

But since Adam already has aggro to Bob's corp, he can take the loot without problems.

If Chuck takes the loot from Bob's wreck, he will gain aggro to Bob's corp.

So when Bob and his corp get back to the wreck, they can continue shooting at Adam, and can start shooting at Chuck as well.


Sounds like repercussions already exist.

Hence why this thread has ZERO support so far. Laughing

Concord is not your mommy, for you to run to saying "He stole my cookie!"

Concord is your dad, saying "Well, kick his ass and get your cookie back!"


you either cannot read or dont understand.

i pay concord for a war dec on a corp/alliance. i kill a pilot in that corp. while killing his other corpmate a noob corp loot stealer flies in takes the loot from the first pilots wreck. he then warps and docks in his 1 million isk thrasher. he is able to undock fly to the gate i am sitting on and stay there safely due to the fact i cannot shoot him because concord currently wont let me and the corp i am at war with cannot come because i there protecting the loot theif.

Concord is your dad, saying "Well, kick his ass and get your cookie back!" yeah i am trying to get the rights to get my cookie back. as for not getting zero support. its up for review by the csm. appearently a few empire war people think its important.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.07.30 07:57:00 - [54]
 

I actually don't think the idea is bad by itself. I just think it was placed here by mental incompetents who should pass such ideas along to their betters so they can present them right.

Darius III
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.07.30 08:09:00 - [55]
 

As CSM I promise not to bring this up at the summits.

CanIPost Please
Posted - 2011.07.30 18:49:00 - [56]
 

This thread should be called "CAN I AGGRO?" and can be summed up thusly:

Originally by: Martinez
I CAN HAS LOOT? I CAN KILLS MOAR?


And, why not? Why can you pay CONCORD to kill the **** out of 50 players but you can't pay CONCORD to kill the **** out of just one? And, why not make noob-corps war dec'able to solve this? It's EVE! It's a sandbox! WEEEEEEEE!

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:28:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: CanIPost Please
This thread should be called "CAN I AGGRO?" and can be summed up thusly:

Originally by: Martinez
I CAN HAS LOOT? I CAN KILLS MOAR?


And, why not? Why can you pay CONCORD to kill the **** out of 50 players but you can't pay CONCORD to kill the **** out of just one? And, why not make noob-corps war dec'able to solve this? It's EVE! It's a sandbox! WEEEEEEEE!

Sadly, I have to agree.

WarDec is nothing more than paying off the cops to look the other way.

Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
Posted - 2011.07.31 03:19:00 - [58]
 

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're asking for the attackers to get aggression to ninja looters. All the rest appears to be excess garble that serves only to throw the reader off of your real point.

I have to say I strongly disagree. You don't get aggression to the ninja looters because they're looting something that isn't yours. But that didn't stop you from attacking what the wreck was a moment ago now did it? So maybe you can just attack the ninja looters even though you don't have aggression. Just food for thought.

Also, I'd like to congratulate you on almost reaching two pages of replies, and still not having a single support thumb.

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.31 03:26:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim
I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're asking for the attackers to get aggression to ninja looters. All the rest appears to be excess garble that serves only to throw the reader off of your real point.

I have to say I strongly disagree. You don't get aggression to the ninja looters because they're looting something that isn't yours. But that didn't stop you from attacking what the wreck was a moment ago now did it? So maybe you can just attack the ninja looters even though you don't have aggression. Just food for thought.

Also, I'd like to congratulate you on almost reaching two pages of replies, and still not having a single support thumb.




i would like to congratulate you on ice harvesting to lvl 4. now stfu. when i come to the ice harvesting thread and comment then i will care what you think.

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.31 03:30:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Martinez


ok, troll lets try it this way. currently the mechanics say its not my loot. in all honestly its who ever takes the loot, the point of the thread is to allow a mechanics change to all the victim, his corp, and the aggressor to gain rights on the can.




Right, this way you can make sure after a suicide gank, you don't have to stress out beating the scavengers to the loot.

Which I can fully understand your position, been in that position myself, however the current first come first serve situation is working out just fine.

Fit tractor beams to your ships, have a dude in a noctis, do something that might require rubbing two brain cells together rather than asking CCP to change mechanics and **** up things more than it is now.



wow, you do know tractor beams cannot pull cans that arent yours right? thanks for the post.


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