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Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.26 17:49:00 - [61]
 

I am astonished by initial speech given by the person who opened this thread.
Rumor has it that similar speech was given by some unknown person in very ancient times on unknown planet but the speech was never recovered in any ancient ruins known to date and only exist in historic records in parts and historians argue of its historic existance. Bravo to Saxon for this speech!
If you uncovered the original speech from some ancient ruins I'm sure Gallente Caldari Minmartr or Amarr will be ready to spend all their riches for the location coordinates where ancient script was uncovered.

As for militia and piracy issues i'm sure that well armed and shield tanked escort can deal with unexpected guests tresspassing soveregn territory for whatever reason there might be.

Sun Zue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.07.26 18:41:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Bow'en
Edited by: Bow''en on 26/07/2011 17:32:53
Originally by: Sun Zue
Originally by: Jon Engel
Originally by: Sun Zue
I am hearing allot about this thing you all call "Morals". I do believe one person to another they will have different "Morals". I find them to just get in the way of progress, but that is to be seen. We at Short Bus feel that ANY group that is found to be actively helping the FDU, or allies will be KOS. We do not believe in NBSI as wed will not go blue with any group. This however does not mean we will shoot at anyone who pass's by. Also, if comrades do have a Blue standing with a corp, or group, we will not interfere unless provoked.
The ILF has been seen aiding IRED and there for will be considered an ACTIVE participant in IRED's hostel activities against the State. This has made them an enemy of the state.



I guess you being the arbitrator of what the Caldari State's enemies are.

Come on now, don't use "patriotism" to justify a beef you have with other capsuleers. When a Capsuleer's narcissistic tendencies are explained away by some false pretense of allegiance to one of the empires...

Well, figure out for yourself what that is Minmitar.


Hahaha.....That is rich bringing race into the argument. What does me being a Minmitar slave child have ANYTHING to do with IRED's action AGAINST The State? I have lived in the Caldari State for the past 2 years and have fought for The State for almost the past year. I never brought up "patriotism", not sure were that can from. Jon, maybe you should look at your own alliance to see the lies and corruption with in. It was only 3 day's ago that IRED took action against The State along side the FDU militia in Fliet. I know as John R. in a Ferox (Ironic) helped lead the assault on State militia pilots.

Degenerates masquerading as State Militia to try and avoid repercussion for their acts of piracy are not shown mercy.

I-RED stands on our own feet, you hide your acts of piracy behind the flag of the Caldari State because you lack the conviction to show Placid your true colors. I kind of understand why though, if you did show your true colors, people might think you were planning on flying Amarr ships to match all that yellow...


Ho ho ho your so funny I'm going to pee my pod. Hide? When have we ever hid from a fight. Last I checked It was you that hide behind the Fed's. We of the Militia do not hide in stations waiting for the blob of ships to save them. You hamper progress through Placid, side against the State, then come here to thump your chest about how great you are? Pathetic is what it is. Your group does stand on it's own, to bad it stands in the way of The Caldari State. Maybe it would be best if all of you just changed the name of your Corps to "The Gallente Butt Kisser's". That way people really know where you all stand.

Avelina Arva
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.07.26 21:34:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Avelina Arva on 26/07/2011 21:35:31
Well it appears that we in ILF are no longer alone in being 'enemies of the state' (References to I-RED aside). It appears that earlier today some corporations in the State Protectorate assisted the FDU in destroying forces from the outer region. According the definitions of some Protectorate pilots in this thread "We at Short Bus feel that ANY group that is found to be actively helping the FDU, or allies will be KOS" , "If you work for the enemy, YOU ARE THE ENEMY" , "If we see a corp (statepro, neut or not) helping our enemies then it is an enemy".

Richard Wensbane
Caldari
OdaTech
Posted - 2011.07.26 21:59:00 - [64]
 

Before I comment on this - and I know that I probably shouldn't - I would like to make something very clear: I do not speak for the State, only for myself and OdaTech.

Now, with that out of the way, I would like to reveal my... admiration for the Intaki people. They have always struck me as the most practical and wisest of the Federation members, with a somewhat stoic nature even, which is something that I can relate to.

And I trust that they know, that we, Caldari, are and always will be far more productive than the Gallente.
I also trust that they know that they have a lot more to gain by working with us, than against us and that we, unlike others, do not easily neglect or abandon any of our "investments."

We have already proved that we stand to gain much by working together. Absolutely no one can claim that the shipping deal made with Ishukone was not beneficial for everyone. That deal could, or should, be the first of many.

Alternatively, we could all just follow the example of some rogue Protectorate members - dare I say pirates in uniform? - and start blowing each other up... spending a fortune in the process!

Sure, the State - through at least one of its megacorporations - would stand to lose a sizable source of income and a sensible business partner (there aren't many around). And yes, the Intaki would probably stand to lose their foundations for recognized independence (if that is what they truly desire), but hey, as I've said before, some people just seem to prefer establishing a direct dialogue with guided missile ammunition...

For what it's worth - and it's probably not much anyway - I would like nothing more than to see the Intaki system withdrawn from the sanctioned Caldari-Gallente war zone.

Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.26 23:44:00 - [65]
 

Caldari Militia corps and their pilots do not speak for the State, nor is it always acting against the State to attack their ships and fleets.

State Protectorate pilots not only don't speak for the State, but also don't even speak for their corporation. And State Protectorate is NOT the State, it is just a corporation within the State.

Amarr Militia corps and their pilots do not speak for the Caldari State, nor do they speak for the Amarr Empire.

I am a pilot in good standing with the Caldari State and with most of its member corporations as their many agents can attest. Those who do not look favorably upon me regard me neutrally as we have had no dealings. RDC, the exectutor corp of I-RED has similar standings.

The Provists would have others believe that their agenda is the agenda of the State and to not support it is acting against the State. Each of the States Megacorporations have their own goals and objectives but all work for the greater glory and good of the State.

Those pilots in State Protectorate and those corporations who have joined the Caldari Militia accepted a mission from the State, and it is time they returned to it rather than using their status to prey on those who have no part in their conflict.

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.07.27 10:03:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Syekuda
We don't need "known" enemies to justify our actions. If you help the enemy you are the enemy. It seems this concept is to complex to grasp! If we see a corp (statepro, neut or not) helping our enemies then it is an enemy.

The principle that you're attempting to appeal to is easy enough to understand. What is less clear is how that principle applies to the attack on Captain Midari's mining barge.

To my knowledge, Captain Midari was not directly giving aid to I-RED forces while mining at a gravimetric site in her Hulk. I do not know what she intended to do with the fruits of her labor (and I doubt her attacker did either) -- however, there appears to be no reason to conclude that her activities at that time were any kind threat to Hell's Revenge or the Caldari State. For all we know, she had intended to sell her mineral haul on the open market, and those same minerals would have ended up constituting the gun barrels of your own warships.

Also, Captain Midari does not seem to have a history of violence against the Hell's Revenge corporation or the State Protectorate, although it's possible that my research in this area is lacking.

I understand the tactical advantages of adopting looser rules of engagement or a NBSI policy, which have been touched on here already. However, it would seem that Captain Midari did nothing personally or circumstantially to provoke Super Chair's attack. It would seem, then, that the motivation for the attack (above mere bloodlust/greed) was a desire to punish Captain Midari for being a member of a corporation that is on friendly terms with an enemy alliance -- in spite of her corporation's efforts to remain neutral in this particular conflict.

Violence so thinly rationalized seldom comes to a good end -- and almost never hastens the arrival of an enduring peace.

Some members of the State Protectorate here have offered tepid admonitions for Super Chair and similarly "hotheaded" pilots. Unfortunately, it seems that those sentiments derive from pragmatic calculations made about how best to further a sectarian agenda, with genuine concern for the plight of the Intaki people or consideration of larger ethical principles playing, at best, a tertiary role in their thinking.

I would be pleased and comforted to find cause to revisit this assessment.

Disclaimer: I am new to the ILF and speak only for myself.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:15:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Van Cleef
Sitting outside a station engaging whatever undocks, NBSI, attacking neutral travelers at gates, NBSI, killing just because you feel like, NBSI. Killing someone who has attempted to, is attempting to or about to attempt to do you violence is called defending yourself.

NBSI, NRDS - they are just general rules that can be applied (or not).
It is your intention that does matter. You can either secure space, execute orders and destroy enemies, or kill whatever you want because you want it (for money, fame or whatever).

Originally by: Mammal Tafren
The Intaki Liberation Front are now enemies of the state? Good to know.

I don't remember any agression from your corporation towards the State, except incident happened YC113-04-22, for which (I believe) you were marked red (you'd better talk to diplomats about it - I weren't there).
If your claims about peaceful intentions are true, you'd better solve everything diplomatically, until you become such enemy as I-REDs became.

Bow'en
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.28 18:29:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Bow''en on 28/07/2011 18:29:18
Originally by: Diana Kim
Originally by: Van Cleef
Sitting outside a station engaging whatever undocks, NBSI, attacking neutral travelers at gates, NBSI, killing just because you feel like, NBSI. Killing someone who has attempted to, is attempting to or about to attempt to do you violence is called defending yourself.

NBSI, NRDS - they are just general rules that can be applied (or not).
It is your intention that does matter. You can either secure space, execute orders and destroy enemies, or kill whatever you want because you want it (for money, fame or whatever).

Originally by: Mammal Tafren
The Intaki Liberation Front are now enemies of the state? Good to know.

I don't remember any agression from your corporation towards the State, except incident happened YC113-04-22, for which (I believe) you were marked red (you'd better talk to diplomats about it - I weren't there).
If your claims about peaceful intentions are true, you'd better solve everything diplomatically, until you become such enemy as I-REDs became.



It is amusing that you say that NBSI/NRDS are just "general rules that can be applied (or not)" and then in your next breath suggest someone try to resolve diplomatic issues.

Does it make it easier to be a privateer hiding behind the Caldari State Flag when you don't show up as red to your prey?

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2011.07.28 18:41:00 - [69]
 

I'm still wondering what in Luminaire the Caldari and Intaki have in common with each other. The former is a ruthless, hypercapitalistic nation composed of regimented and militaristic collectivists, while the latter is a cultural group composed of individuals interested in peaceful practices and spirituality. It is an absolute joke that Intaki culturalists would ever fit into Caldari society. They have fit into Gallentean society well, establishing a reputation as artists and diplomats (both very importance facets of Federal culture), as well as coming to dominate the bureaucracy.

Don't forget, that whenever you refer to the word "Gallente", you also refer to the Intaki, Jin-Mei, Mannar, Minmatar, Caldari and Amarr who all reside here, and influence the politics of the Federation in their own way.

Being a welcoming society sure is a nice way to conquer the world, isn't it? The Caldari can try with guns and missiles all they want, but neither win hearts and minds.

Mammal Tafren
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.29 00:06:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim

I don't remember any agression from your corporation towards the State, except incident happened YC113-04-22, for which (I believe) you were marked red (you'd better talk to diplomats about it - I weren't there).
If your claims about peaceful intentions are true, you'd better solve everything diplomatically, until you become such enemy as I-REDs became.



We'd better? We'd better?

For starters, we have approached the aggressor in question requesting recompense, but were rebuffed by these privateers.

That aside I think it takes some cheek to tell us that we'd better solve things diplomatically, which historically has always been our first port of call, when we are the aggreived party in this situation and the your former compatriots are the villains.


John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.29 00:33:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Mammal Tafren
Originally by: Diana Kim

I don't remember any agression from your corporation towards the State, except incident happened YC113-04-22, for which (I believe) you were marked red (you'd better talk to diplomats about it - I weren't there).
If your claims about peaceful intentions are true, you'd better solve everything diplomatically, until you become such enemy as I-REDs became.



We'd better? We'd better?

For starters, we have approached the aggressor in question requesting recompense, but were rebuffed by these privateers.

That aside I think it takes some cheek to tell us that we'd better solve things diplomatically, which historically has always been our first port of call, when we are the aggreived party in this situation and the your former compatriots are the villains.




What else do you expect from a organization stock full of piracy, and corruption?

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.29 03:39:00 - [72]
 

I'd hope that the views expressed here are the vocal minority, and not the status quo of the militia. When you sign up for the militia your intentions should be to further the agenda of the State, not to further the agenda or your corporation, or to include more targets in your overview. I see the concept of "Service" is lost to these few, a core concept of the State. This is yet another reason why CAIN has formed The Fourth District.

Unregulated militias are nothing more than brigands, or privateers. Serving the State is about something greater than yourself, I see that concept is lost under Heth's regime.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:07:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Van Cleef
I'd hope that the views expressed here are the vocal minority, and not the status quo of the militia. When you sign up for the militia your intentions should be to further the agenda of the State, not to further the agenda or your corporation, or to include more targets in your overview. I see the concept of "Service" is lost to these few, a core concept of the State. This is yet another reason why CAIN has formed The Fourth District.

Unregulated militias are nothing more than brigands, or privateers. Serving the State is about something greater than yourself, I see that concept is lost under Heth's regime.


You have rather summed up my feelings, or rather the point I was trying to make Van. I personally wish the 4th District success wherever you end up operating out of. It is just rather comforting to see that the State still has patriots who embrace the qualities of the State I used to admire.

Sadly, those qualities are a rarity anymore.

Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.29 10:06:00 - [74]
 

NRDS is a concept embraced by some and others prefer the NBSI , it can be argued that one is more moral than the other but to argue such one must look at the way NBSI or NRDS is enforced.

NBSI can be moral if you consider everybody you meet initially as a friend , in other words you contact them about being blue to each other before firing.In such a case one can say it is a moral NBSI which does not freely engage neutrals as targets of oppertunity or simply because you have not meet them. (In such a case these pilots even will go GCC due to them having the orders to engage neutrals and reds on sight)

NRDS can be consider unmoral if you freely choose to set any neutral you meet red or on vargue assumptions or if you see a hauler and simply set it red just so you can kill it with a clear conscience.

We set red ,similar to many other NRDS Alliances, for past aggressions on our pilots and in some cases on aggressions on our allies, in the case of aggressions of our allies it is taken into evaluation beforehand.
Due to the NRDS if a pilot is set red we will fire on them at any possible moment to hinder their movements, this is a preamptive strike based upon their past actions against us and to ensure further actions against us are hindered swiftly before they even have chance to begin.

If a person believes they want to leave the past behind them and be set enutral they simply need to contact a diplomat about a standings reset. This is then decided by the Diplomat depending on factors of number and severity of past aggressions.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.29 19:17:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Bow'en
It is amusing that you say that NBSI/NRDS are just "general rules that can be applied (or not)" and then in your next breath suggest someone try to resolve diplomatic issues.

Don't see anything contradicting here, if you could, please try to make your mind more clear, I am not a telepathist.

Originally by: Bow'en
Does it make it easier to be a privateer hiding behind the Caldari State Flag when you don't show up as red to your prey?

And why do YOU tell about Caldari State Flag, YOU who are fighting against Caldari, YOU who betrayed your State and your Leader, YOU who hugged and kissed our enemies, YOU who call us pirates only to help your gallente friends?

It's not YOUR business, dirty hnolku, what hides behind the Caldari State Flag, you didn't deserve the right to touch it.

Originally by: Mammal Tafren
We'd better? We'd better?

For starters, we have approached the aggressor in question requesting recompense, but were rebuffed by these privateers.

That aside I think it takes some cheek to tell us that we'd better solve things diplomatically, which historically has always been our first port of call, when we are the aggreived party in this situation and the your former compatriots are the villains.

I don't think that asking for recompense for shooting not blue target have any sensible meanings except escalating hostilities. I just made a suggestion what would be the best move, but after all, it's just not my problem. Really. It's your choices and your corporation, and nobody can force you into decision you don't really want to make, except your own will.

People, whom you call villains, are just doing their job. They are fighting for what they think is right, just as your people do. If I were with them, and saw red industrial ship without guard, I would do the same. Now you can call me villain too.

Originally by: John Revenent
What else do you expect from a organization stock full of piracy, and corruption?

The second rise of I-RED's hypocrisy. Do you prepare another 'campaign' against any of patriotic organizations?

Originally by: Van Cleef
...I see that concept is lost under Heth's regime.

I understand, you are not anymore with the State, but you could have payed more respect to Tibus Heth, who alone have done for the State much more than all of your pilots from Fourth District did together.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.29 19:30:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Creetalor
NRDS is a concept embraced by some and others prefer the NBSI , it can be argued that one is more moral than the other but to argue such one must look at the way NBSI or NRDS is enforced.


I am very happy that you, as I-RED pilot, started to reason with open mind, and understand that NBSI doesn't always mean piracy.

I will be extremely pleased, if you also ditch your corrupted traitorous employers and enlist yourself for military service for the State.

Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.29 19:59:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
Originally by: Creetalor
NRDS is a concept embraced by some and others prefer the NBSI , it can be argued that one is more moral than the other but to argue such one must look at the way NBSI or NRDS is enforced.


I am very happy that you, as I-RED pilot, started to reason with open mind, and understand that NBSI doesn't always mean piracy.

I will be extremely pleased, if you also ditch your corrupted traitorous employers and enlist yourself for military service for the State.


I have an open mind but not a weak one to condone those hiding among the state acting out as pirates ransoming ships and you supporting them in such actions.
Do you really wish to be fighting for those among the states who ransom neutral vessels?
Do you wish to be remembered fighting for those kind of people in the state those that ransom defenceless vessels? Those are the current privateers fighting in Intaki, do you wish to support such actions?
Should I secondly understand that you have marked Ishukone as a traitor? I am employed by Ishukone Corporation my main Ceo is Men Reppola if you wish to mark them a traitor I am sure the board and Mr. Reppola would like to hear it.

You can be remembered for supporting those that reap on the backs of those unaffilitated with the war, or you can be remembered as the one who finally understood the truth and decides to fight against such an injustice of those hiding in the great state reaping on such poor unaffilitated people they ransom for their life!

Katrina Oniseki
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.29 22:36:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
YOU who betrayed your State and your Leader,


Heth is not my leader. He never was.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.29 23:20:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Creetalor
I have an open mind but not a weak one to condone those hiding among the state acting out as pirates ransoming ships and you supporting them in such actions.

I don't remember myself asking or paying ransoms to someone. I shot to kill. I don't see where do you get this about ransoming and how is it related to the discussion. However, should a fleetmate ransom some captured hostile official, I will honor it and hold fire. But I don't support it and will never allow myself to be bribed.

Originally by: Creetalor
Do you really wish to be fighting for those among the states who ransom neutral vessels?

Ransoming neutral vessels. Right. I know whom are you talking about. I never supported his methods, but until he does his job for the State and flies together with me, I will protect him as anyone else in the fleet. You shoot him and I kill you.

Originally by: Creetalor
Do you wish to be remembered fighting for those kind of people in the state those that ransom defenceless vessels? Those are the current privateers fighting in Intaki, do you wish to support such actions?

I fight in Intaki. It was an isolated case and I wasn't there at the moment. I spent some time there, and I assure you, there were no 'ransoming defenceless vessels'. We fight against pirates, gallentes and their lapdogs, no defenceless vessels in this list, sorry.

Originally by: Creetalor
Should I secondly understand that you have marked Ishukone as a traitor? I am employed by Ishukone Corporation my main Ceo is Men Reppola if you wish to mark them a traitor I am sure the board and Mr. Reppola would like to hear it.

No, you shouldn't. So far, Ishukone didn't commit any aggression against State Protectorate, unlike your direct employers did. As your employment history states, you work not for Ishukone, but for Revenent Defence Corporation and your CEO bears a name of John Revenent.

Originally by: Creetalor
You can be remembered for supporting those that reap on the backs of those unaffilitated with the war, or you can be remembered as the one who finally understood the truth and decides to fight against such an injustice of those hiding in the great state reaping on such poor unaffilitated people they ransom for their life!


At least I won't be remembered for supporting traitors. But really, if I cared about being remembered, you would have known me under another name. Once, before I became a capsuleer, I committed a crime, for which I will be paying for the rest of my life, but if I had second chance, I would commit it again without second thought.
So, disregarding what people think about me, I will do what is right and what should be done. And let spirits guide me and don't let me to step away from my destiny.

Katrina Oniseki
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.30 00:52:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim

No, you shouldn't. So far, Ishukone didn't commit any aggression against State Protectorate, unlike your direct employers did. As your employment history states, you work not for Ishukone, but for Revenent Defence Corporation and your CEO bears a name of John Revenent.


And you work for Wolfsbrigade, an Amarr militia corporation. If you're going to point out direct employers, than you are even farther removed from the Caldari State. Revenent Defence Corporation is part of the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, a recognized capsuleer subsidary of Ishukone corporation. What part of that do you not understand?

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.30 11:25:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corporation is part of the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive,

who proven itself as enemy of the State, who attacks loyal to the State capsuleers, pretends to fight piracy when disrupting State's activities and makes treaties with military forces that fight against the State. Please, do not taunt Ishukone corporation by claiming you are acting on its behalf. Ishukone would never betray the State!

Originally by: Katrina Oniseki
And you work for Wolfsbrigade, an Amarr militia corporation. If you're going to point out direct employers, than you are even farther removed from the Caldari State.

Farther removed? We are fighting enemies of the State, we are capturing systems for the State. Now, what do you, traitor scum, know about the State, have you done just... anything for it? Oh, I just forgot that
Originally by: Katrina Oniseki

Heth is not my leader. He never was.

our leader is not your leader, our war is not your war, our State is not your State.

Yeah, go kiss your Roden, while you still... can...

Valdezi
Amarr
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.30 13:24:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim

Farther removed? We are fighting enemies of the Empire, we are capturing systems for the Empire. We are traitor scum who work for the Empire, have you done just... anything for it? Oh, I just forgot that.


Made some amendments for accuracy.

How is your leader the Empress going for you, Diana?

Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.31 02:50:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim

Our leader is not your leader, our war is not your war, our State is not your State.



You are correct, the Empire is not our State and the Empress is not our leader.

Azelor Delaria
Caldari
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2011.07.31 09:22:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Katrina Oniseki
Originally by: Diana Kim
YOU who betrayed your State and your Leader,


Heth is not my leader. He never was.


But he must be. You, who hold such "unswerving devotion" to the State must accept that the Megacorporations have indeed named Heth your leader. So whatever you may say, your corporation and alliance do swear fealty to the State, and thus you swear fealty to Heth.

Unless, of course, you're claiming you support the Gallentean version of a government...?

Altarr Orkot
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.31 09:51:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Altarr Orkot on 31/07/2011 13:22:28
Originally by: Azelor Delaria


But he must be. You, who hold such "unswerving devotion" to the State must accept that the Megacorporations have indeed named Heth your leader. So whatever you may say, your corporation and alliance do swear fealty to the State, and thus you swear fealty to Heth.

Unless, of course, you're claiming you support the Gallentean version of a government...?


I must have missed the bit where all Caldari swore 'fealty' to Heth, or when the megacorps named him the 'leader' of the Caldari State. In fact the idea of an individual in control of the entire State is historically a very un-Caldari thing. While he is the CEO of KK and he holds a large sway over the CPD, the megacorps which form the foundation of Caldari society are not 'ruled' by Heth.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.31 17:38:00 - [86]
 

Valdezi and Marrano Cardosa
Silly traitors, don't you know what is happening in the State now? It is ruled by Executor, not Empress.

Azelor Delaria
According to their actions, they either haven't sworn fealty to the State, or have broken their oath.

Altarr Orkot
So, you say the idea of an individual in control of the entire State is historically a very un-Caldari thing? Then Raata Empire was un-Caldari too. Very interesting point of view, indeed. Was attending gallente schools lately? ;)

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:39:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Van Cleef
I'd hope that the views expressed here are the vocal minority, and not the status quo of the militia. When you sign up for the militia your intentions should be to further the agenda of the State, not to further the agenda or your corporation, or to include more targets in your overview. I see the concept of "Service" is lost to these few, a core concept of the State. This is yet another reason why CAIN has formed The Fourth District.

Unregulated militias are nothing more than brigands, or privateers. Serving the State is about something greater than yourself, I see that concept is lost under Heth's regime.


Don't fool yourself. One of the State Protectorate's public objectives is to "conquer" (versus the much more wishy-washy "defend" of the FDU). Members of the State Protectorate pursue the agenda of Executor Tibus Heth, a tyrant who seeks to impose (with guns, of course) the Caldari way of doing things on a population that cares little for it. Ask any Harroulean or Esesierite.

Your lot is making the Federation platform for this war very, very easy. Corporate oppressors who wish to conquer Placid for economic exploitation? Couldn't be simpler to oil our propaganda machine.

As for Executor Tibus Heth being the unquestioning leader of all Caldari? That's funny, I could have sworn the Liberals and Practicals were trying to oust the guy...anyway, we don't really have a concept of "unquestioning leaders" in the Federation, bar that unpopular U-Nat government before all of our lifetimes.

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:43:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
Valdezi and Marrano Cardosa
Silly traitors, don't you know what is happening in the State now? It is ruled by Executor, not Empress.

Azelor Delaria
According to their actions, they either haven't sworn fealty to the State, or have broken their oath.

Altarr Orkot
So, you say the idea of an individual in control of the entire State is historically a very un-Caldari thing? Then Raata Empire was un-Caldari too. Very interesting point of view, indeed. Was attending gallente schools lately? ;)


I do not know if you are intentionally being obtuse, but the corporation that you have pledged loyalty is in the service of the Amarr militia - which means they have sworn an oath to the Empress, not the State. I would be careful who I called traitors.

Your history vids may be a little out of date, but while the Caldari people have had a centralized government in the past - it failed shortly after our people were forcibly removed from our homeplanet. The Raate empire you speak about was in power some 6000 years ago (17453 AD - 20988 AD). Our culture that was then is not the same culture as we have now. Speaking of the modern Caldari History, it would be atypical to have a centralized government, especially since we as a culture deemed that ineffective and disbanded it in our modern age.

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.31 18:52:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Van Cleef on 31/07/2011 19:19:08
Originally by:
Seriphyn Inhonores

Don't fool yourself. One of the State Protectorate's public objectives is to "conquer" (versus the much more wishy-washy "defend" of the FDU)


I'm very clear on the goals of the war, only a fool fights a war defensively and expects it to end favorably for themselves.

Quote:
Your lot is making the ..... platform for this war very, very easy. ..... oppressors who wish to conquer ..... for economic exploitation? Couldn't be simpler to oil our propaganda machine.


Your account of the conflict sounds similar to that of one I heard about in my instruction when I was younger. It recounted a conflict that occured between two cultures in one system. One wanted to prosper, the other wanted to conquer. In the end one of the cultures started a war with the intention to completely destroying the other, so far as to remove them from their homeworld and scatter them to the stars.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:54:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Van Cleef
Edited by: Van Cleef on 31/07/2011 19:19:08Your account of the conflict sounds similar to that of one I heard about in my instruction when I was younger. It recounted a conflict that occured between two cultures in one system. One wanted to prosper, the other wanted to conquer. In the end one of the cultures started a war with the intention to completely destroying the other, so far as to remove them from their homeworld and scatter them to the stars.


Well, after being scattered to the stars, you haven't done so bad for yourself.

Besides, you were ejected from a homeworld. That's nothing compared to being enslaved as a race for 700 years like the Minmatar.


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