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Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.20 16:39:00 - [1]
 

It was with great sadness this week that I had to inform the families of the crew of an ILF mining vessel that their loved ones would not be coming home. While the crew knew and accepted the risks of working in space, it does little to ease the suffering of those they left behind.

Any time a crew is lost I am struck by the profound senselessness of it. But in this case, when a peaceful vessel of commerce was attacked by a warship of the faction conflict, it is not only senseless but entirely uncalled for. The ILF's policy of neutrality in the militia conflict should be well known to all by now. Given that it appears that neither the Gallente nor Caldari can control their respective pilots, I call now for the parties responsible for the factional conflict to rescind the order allowing it. The only responsible course of action at this point is to demand peace.

What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a peace enforced on the universe by weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children--not merely peace for Intaki but peace for all men and women--not merely peace in our time but peace for all time.

I speak of peace because of the new face of war. War makes no sense in an age when great powers can maintain large and relatively invulnerable capsuleer forces and refuse to surrender without resort to those forces. It makes no sense in an age when a single space-borne weapon contains enough explosive force to destroy a planet.

I speak of peace, therefore, as the necessary rational end of rational men. I realize that the pursuit of peace is not as dramatic as the pursuit of war--and frequently the words of the pursuer fall on deaf ears. But we have no more urgent task.

Some say that it is useless to speak of universal peace or universal law or universal disarmament--and that it will be useless until the leaders of the Empires adopt a more enlightened attitude. I hope they do. I believe we can help them do it. But I also believe that we must reexamine our own attitude--as individuals and as capsuleers--for our attitude is as essential as theirs. And every graduate of a capsuleer school, every thoughtful citizen who despairs of war and wishes to bring peace, should begin by looking inward--by examining his own attitude toward the possibilities of peace, toward the course of the faction war and toward freedom and peace in all places.

Let us examine our attitude toward peace itself. Too many of us think it is impossible. Too many think it unreal. But that is a dangerous, defeatist belief. It leads to the conclusion that war is inevitable--that mankind is doomed--that we are gripped by forces we cannot control. We need not accept that view. Our problems are manmade--therefore, they can be solved by man. And man can be as big as he wants. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings. Man's reason and spirit have often solved the seemingly unsolvable--and we believe they can do it again.

Let us focus instead on a more practical, more attainable peace-- based not on a sudden revolution in human nature but on a gradual evolution in human institutions--on a series of concrete actions and effective agreements which are in the interest of all concerned. There is no single, simple key to this peace--no grand or magic formula to be adopted by one or two powers. Genuine peace must be the product of many nations, the sum of many acts. It must be dynamic, not static, changing to meet the challenge of each new generation. For peace is a process--a way of solving problems.

(continues)

Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.20 16:48:00 - [2]
 

With such a peace, there will still be quarrels and conflicting interests, as there are within families and nations. Universal peace, like community peace, does not require that each man love his neighbor--it requires only that they live together in mutual tolerance, submitting their disputes to a just and peaceful settlement. And history teaches us that enmities between nations, as between individuals, do not last forever. However fixed our likes and dislikes may seem, the tide of time and events will often bring surprising changes in the relations between nations and neighbors.

Wherever we are, we must all, in our daily lives, live up to the age-old faith that peace and freedom walk together. In too many of our worlds today, the peace is not secure because the freedom is incomplete.

It is the responsibility of the executive branch at all levels of government--local, State, and National--to provide and protect that freedom for all of our citizens by all means within their authority. It is the responsibility of the legislative branch at all levels, wherever that authority is not now adequate, to make it adequate. And it is the responsibility of all citizens in all sections of this country to respect the rights of all others and to respect the law of the land.

While we proceed to safeguard our national interests, let us also safeguard human interests. And the elimination of war and arms is clearly in the interest of both. No treaty, however much it may be to the advantage of all, however tightly it may be worded, can provide absolute security against the risks of deception and evasion. But it can--if it is sufficiently effective in its enforcement and if it is sufficiently in the interests of its signers--offer far more security and far fewer risks than an unabated, uncontrolled, unpredictable arms race.

We do not want to take part in your war. This generation of Intaki has already had enough--more than enough--of war and hate and oppression. We shall be prepared if others wish it. We shall be alert to try to stop it. But we shall also do our part to build a universe of peace where the weak are safe and the strong are just. We are not helpless before that task or hopeless of its success. Confident and unafraid, we labor on--not toward a strategy of annihilation but toward a strategy of peace.

Tiberious Thessalonia
Amarr
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.07.20 17:27:00 - [3]
 

I often say that IGS is a cesspool.

This proves that it is not always the case.

Well said, and I hope that you and your people, and all the other peoples across the cluster can learn to find peace.

Alain Colcer
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.20 17:51:00 - [4]
 

Monsieur Hawke

I know that your organization, IPI, is focused on fostering economic activity and growth in the around the Intaki System and its sphere of influence. A commendable and honest goal by all accounts.

Reality however plays against that very same goal, Intaki is the only prime world currently embroiled in the Proxy wars approved by CONCORD, QCATS corporation in particular is one of many combat-oriented organizations who battle for space superiority in Placid and Essence. As an active pilot, i can express my personal concern that our engagements are detrimental to your organizations goals and to every inhabitant in the regions affected.

Sadly we often see civilians helping the Caldari Militia, other times its Outlaws engaging us and the Caldari...sometimes is just trigger happy pilots after a frenzy of killing....such are the horrors of war. And believe me when i say it, we of all people, wish to end this.

But we cannot surrender, we will not give in to Caldari occupation and aggresion, we will hold the line to keep Placid and Essence under Federation sovereignity.

Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.07.20 19:58:00 - [5]
 

I could back this dream of peace if there was a realistic plan, so my question then is how do you plan to forge this peace?

This war simply won't stop unless the Empires choose to, or something major happens that convinces them to end it (it's surprising the re-emergence of Nation incursions hasn't done so already. Because of that, I would assume something of equal magnitude would be impotent).

Mammal Tafren
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:12:00 - [6]
 

It is times like this, Suresha, in which I am reminded why I chose a better way in the Intaki Liberation Front, and why the way of peace is better than the vitriol preached by others.

It is sad that the Caldari Militia felt they had to destroy a peaceful mining vessel, but this is symptomatic of a larger malaise that all the empires find themselves mired in.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:16:00 - [7]
 

As the pilot who destroyed this mining vessel, I fully feel my actions are jusitified. As the ILF/IPI continue to support I-RED in operations or provide logistics support to IRED, I will continue to destroy IPI vessels. If you wish for peace, you must not assist IRED.

The ILI were witnessed fielding a thanatos class carrier to assist IRED as well as other logistics-type cruisers shortly after an attack by caldari state forces on an IRED pos had occured (but were routed by unaffiliated pirates). As IRED is quite openly hostile to the caldari state militia and thier loyalty is only to themselves and their wallets, not the state, anyone who are seen assisting them directly or indirectly are considered hostile and will be dealt with accordingly.

Hell's Revenge is NBSI and since the IPI had not previously requested blue standings as well as assisting IRED we have no choice but to destroy their vessels until an agreement to remain neutral (no assistance to I-RED) in the IRED-Caldari Militia conflict. This is the opinion of our corporation, and does not represent our militia as a whole. We will encourage our allies to not seek blue standings with the IPI until the above agreement is made, but in the end, it is up to the individual corporations as to what their relation to the IPI will be.

I would strongly advise the IPI to tread catiously and not label the entire caldari militia as their enemies, making the same mistake as IRED did when one corporation engaged their vessels and felt it necesary to commit acts of piracy on unaffiliated state vessels.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:17:00 - [8]
 

ILF knows what they need to do here.

Will they do it?

Demand the Militias leave Placid, our own assembly demanded it if you remember.

Luc Divalone
Gallente
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2011.07.21 09:05:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jon Engel
ILF knows what they need to do here.

Will they do it?

Demand the Militias leave Placid, our own assembly demanded it if you remember.


thats the funniest thing ive seen all day. These pacifist intaki get exactly what they deserve

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.21 11:33:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Luc Divalone
Originally by: Jon Engel
ILF knows what they need to do here.

Will they do it?

Demand the Militias leave Placid, our own assembly demanded it if you remember.


thats the funniest thing ive seen all day. These pacifist intaki get exactly what they deserve


If the ILF got what they deserved Saxon would have retired as a capsuleer and given a prestigious job as a diplomat between the Intaki Assembly and the Gallente and Caldari Empires respectively. However, what is right is usually never what happens..

Now we sit at a crossroads here, us Intaki. Usually no one notices such things but contemplation and meditation usually leads most of us to believe that it will not be long before the Caldari and Gallente lose what little hope they had of becoming friends of the Intaki people.

So unless one of the Idama comes forth and arbitrates this dispute directly with Concord and the Federation and the State and is also successful in his negotiation.

I imagine the narcissistic whims of the capsuleer will rule the day in this region.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.21 13:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 21/07/2011 15:11:28
The Federation militia is not camping Intaki based corporations in station - the Caldari do. The majority if us do not use Intaki as a base of operations - the Caldari do.

I am amazed that the inhabitants of Intaki continue to allow Caldari militia members to base out of Intaki. While there are a few rogue elements within the Federation militia, it is clear the policy of the majority of Caldari militia corporations is to be openly hostile to the capsuleer corporations based in the system. Yet, the inhabitants of Intaki appear to assign the same level of blame to both militias.


Luc Divalone
Gallente
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2011.07.21 13:25:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jon Engel
Originally by: Luc Divalone
Originally by: Jon Engel
ILF knows what they need to do here.

Will they do it?

Demand the Militias leave Placid, our own assembly demanded it if you remember.


thats the funniest thing ive seen all day. These pacifist intaki get exactly what they deserve


If the ILF got what they deserved Saxon would have retired as a capsuleer and given a prestigious job as a diplomat between the Intaki Assembly and the Gallente and Caldari Empires respectively. However, what is right is usually never what happens..

Now we sit at a crossroads here, us Intaki. Usually no one notices such things but contemplation and meditation usually leads most of us to believe that it will not be long before the Caldari and Gallente lose what little hope they had of becoming friends of the Intaki people.

So unless one of the Idama comes forth and arbitrates this dispute directly with Concord and the Federation and the State and is also successful in his negotiation.

I imagine the narcissistic whims of the capsuleer will rule the day in this region.


your right if they got what they deserved Intaki would be Glass and these peace loving capsuleers would have nothing to ***** about anymore

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.21 16:59:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius
Edited by: X Gallentius on 21/07/2011 15:11:28
The Federation militia is not camping Intaki based corporations in station - the Caldari do. The majority if us do not use Intaki as a base of operations - the Caldari do.

I am amazed that the inhabitants of Intaki continue to allow Caldari militia members to base out of Intaki. While there are a few rogue elements within the Federation militia, it is clear the policy of the majority of Caldari militia corporations is to be openly hostile to the capsuleer corporations based in the system. Yet, the inhabitants of Intaki appear to assign the same level of blame to both militias.




That's because the very existence of the Gallente and Caldari Militia is the reason this war ravages the worlds of the Intaki.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.21 17:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Luc Divalone
Originally by: Jon Engel
Originally by: Luc Divalone
Originally by: Jon Engel
ILF knows what they need to do here.

Will they do it?

Demand the Militias leave Placid, our own assembly demanded it if you remember.


thats the funniest thing ive seen all day. These pacifist intaki get exactly what they deserve


If the ILF got what they deserved Saxon would have retired as a capsuleer and given a prestigious job as a diplomat between the Intaki Assembly and the Gallente and Caldari Empires respectively. However, what is right is usually never what happens..

Now we sit at a crossroads here, us Intaki. Usually no one notices such things but contemplation and meditation usually leads most of us to believe that it will not be long before the Caldari and Gallente lose what little hope they had of becoming friends of the Intaki people.

So unless one of the Idama comes forth and arbitrates this dispute directly with Concord and the Federation and the State and is also successful in his negotiation.

I imagine the narcissistic whims of the capsuleer will rule the day in this region.


your right if they got what they deserved Intaki would be Glass and these peace loving capsuleers would have nothing to ***** about anymore


Ain't you a sweet heart. Navies bring in genocidal extermination fleets and the Syndicate would intervene, but that is a Gallente Imperialist's plan. To drag everyone into the war despite the fact the Federation can't even handle the little bit of a sandwich it's bitten off already.

John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.21 23:12:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Super Chair
As the pilot who destroyed this mining vessel, I fully feel my actions are jusitified. As the ILF/IPI continue to support I-RED in operations or provide logistics support to IRED, I will continue to destroy IPI vessels. If you wish for peace, you must not assist IRED.


A laughable demand.

Originally by: Super Chair

The ILI were witnessed fielding a thanatos class carrier to assist IRED as well as other logistics-type cruisers shortly after an attack by caldari state forces on an IRED pos had occured (but were routed by unaffiliated pirates). As IRED is quite openly hostile to the caldari state militia and thier loyalty is only to themselves and their wallets, not the state, anyone who are seen assisting them directly or indirectly are considered hostile and will be dealt with accordingly.


The ILF has yet to assist Ishukone-Raata in full on combat verse pirate elements in both the Gallente, and Caldari Militia's (To my knowledge it is against their ROE). We are only openly hostile to any Militia forces who have engaged our pilots or committed acts of piracy (Ransoms, Open Aggression on non-combatants.) In our continued efforts to secure free trade in our area's of operation. Our loyalty is to the Ishukone Corporation first and foremost.

Originally by: Super Chair

Hell's Revenge is NBSI and since the IPI had not previously requested blue standings as well as assisting IRED we have no choice but to destroy their vessels until an agreement to remain neutral (no assistance to I-RED) in the IRED-Caldari Militia conflict. This is the opinion of our corporation, and does not represent our militia as a whole. We will encourage our allies to not seek blue standings with the IPI until the above agreement is made, but in the end, it is up to the individual corporations as to what their relation to the IPI will be.


So you would have engaged in such acts of piracy on a non-combatant even if they did not assist Ishukone-Raata in defensive operations... being NBSI would call you to do so, adding I-RED into the equation is a poor attempt to place us in bad light.

Originally by: Super Chair

I would strongly advise the IPI to tread catiously and not label the entire caldari militia as their enemies, making the same mistake as IRED did when one corporation engaged their vessels and felt it necesary to commit acts of piracy on unaffiliated state vessels.


It is a known fact that a majority of the capsuleer forces under the State Protectorate are pirates who shoot down non-combatants, and neutrals in your conflict all the time.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.22 03:22:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: John Revenent

It is a known fact that a majority of the capsuleer forces under the State Protectorate are pirates who shoot down non-combatants, and neutrals in your conflict all the time.

At least one resident of the area gets it.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.07.22 04:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: John Revenent


The ILF has yet to assist Ishukone-Raata in full on combat verse pirate elements in both the Gallente, and Caldari Militia's (To my knowledge it is against their ROE). We are only openly hostile to any Militia forces who have engaged our pilots or committed acts of piracy (Ransoms, Open Aggression on non-combatants.) In our continued efforts to secure free trade in our area's of operation. Our loyalty is to the Ishukone Corporation first and foremost.

...

So you would have engaged in such acts of piracy on a non-combatant even if they did not assist Ishukone-Raata in defensive operations... being NBSI would call you to do so, adding I-RED into the equation is a poor attempt to place us in bad light.


Commiting acts of piracy against non-combatants isn't anything IRED hasn't done in the past. Proof of such is in the following Combat Record: A member of your alliance has partaken in the destruction of this freighter. IRED claiming to be a supporter of free trade in your area of operations (or is Viriette suddenly and conviently not part of your area of operations anymore?) but then turn around and participate in the destruction of non-combative vessels carrying goods? Did you think you could hide your hipocritsy? This is what is truly laughable. I anticipate your alliance will now claim that this seemingly industrial corporation is full of pirates too now and must destroyed? I can claim someone is a witch and demand that they be burned at the stake but it doesn't mean they are one. Just as IRED have claimed that most caldari corporations in the militia are pirates and must be destroyed and saw it fit to engage caldari militia who were not originally involved in conflcit between IRED and Wolfsbrigade.

You alliance does a pretty good job painting itself in a bad light as it is, John. Your alliance claims to be state loyalists, but actively engage caldari militia, and have, some months ago, had worked in tandum with FDU forces to engage caldari state vessels on multiple occasions. You fled from the major area of combat operations between the caldari and gallente and you think we would not follow you to Intaki? Did you think you would be safe? Your alliance claims to be against piracy, but openly commit acts of it. I feel that your alliance is more confused than a transexual gallentean teenager.

Also, adding IRED into the equation is indeed relevent. Hell's Revenge members originally moved assests to Intaki to monitor and skirmish against IRED as we saw fit (we had later begun to support our allies campaigns of surrounding systems while we were in the area) The lives lost aboard that mining vessel may have never been lost if IRED hadn't moved their combative forces out of Fliet and into Intaki. The lives of that crew are on your hands as well as mine. We are capable of showing mercy to "neutral" elements (although you would like to paint the caldari militia uncapable of such), however, there can be no mercy shown to those who assist our enemies and think they can continue to do so without repercussions.

If the IPI wish to avoid the future loss of life of their crews and loss of assests then I strongly advise seeking a blue agreement with Hell's Revenge in addition agreeing to a pact to stay clear of delivering any more assistance to IRED in regards to the conflict between IRED and the Caldari Militia. The demands above remain. If the ILF is indeed not assiting IRED then they could easily agree to such a demand, refusal to do so quite obviously means they have the intention to aid IRED in future conflicts between the Caldari Militia and IRED.

CONCORD OOC censor applied. Zymurgist

John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.22 06:34:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Super Chair

Commiting acts of piracy against non-combatants isn't anything IRED hasn't done in the past. Proof of such is in the following Combat Record: A member of your alliance has partaken in the destruction of this freighter. IRED claiming to be a supporter of free trade in your area of operations (or is Viriette suddenly and conviently not part of your area of operations anymore?) but then turn around and participate in the destruction of non-combative vessels carrying goods? Did you think you could hide your hipocritsy? This is what is truly laughable. I anticipate your alliance will now claim that this seemingly industrial corporation is full of pirates too now and must destroyed?


We will make no such claims, when we make a mistake at least we can address it. Such lapses of judgement by our pilots are taken seriously, which includes punishment of pilots at fault, and repayment of unlawful destruction of assets.

Originally by: Super Chair

You alliance does a pretty good job painting itself in a bad light as it is, John. Your alliance claims to be state loyalists, but actively engage caldari militia, and have, some months ago, had worked in tandum with FDU forces to engage caldari state vessels on multiple occasions.


We do support the State through our continued loyalty toward the Ishukone Corporation, we engage pirates who parade around as Caldari Loyalists, just as we do to hostile Gallente organizations, and other unaffiliated low life's.


Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.22 07:34:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: John Revenent

It is a known fact that a majority of the capsuleer forces under the State Protectorate are pirates who shoot down non-combatants, and neutrals in your conflict all the time.


It is a known fact that a majority of the capsuleer forces under command of John Revenent are engaging Caldari militia disregarding their attitude towards piracy.

The 'anti-piracy' propaganda is used by I-REDs only to conceal their aggression against State forces. They attack not only pirates, but also neutral State vessels, as well as pilots who are actually fight against real pirates in region.

For the last half of the year many Caldari patrolling fleets (I'd like to emphasize that they were patrolling, not pirating fleets) were attacked by I-RED forces. Results of these battles can be found in public available logs.

Mammal Tafren
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.22 08:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Super Chair
Also, adding IRED into the equation is indeed relevent. Hell's Revenge members originally moved assests to Intaki to monitor and skirmish against IRED as we saw fit (we had later begun to support our allies campaigns of surrounding systems while we were in the area) The lives lost aboard that mining vessel may have never been lost if IRED hadn't moved their combative forces out of Fliet and into Intaki. The lives of that crew are on your hands as well as mine. We are capable of showing mercy to "neutral" elements (although you would like to paint the caldari militia uncapable of such), however, there can be no mercy shown to those who assist our enemies and think they can continue to do so without repercussions.

If the IPI wish to avoid the future loss of life of their crews and loss of assests then I strongly advise seeking a blue agreement with Hell's Revenge in addition agreeing to a pact to stay clear of delivering any more assistance to IRED in regards to the conflict between IRED and the Caldari Militia. The demands above remain. If the ILF is indeed not assiting IRED then they could easily agree to such a demand, refusal to do so quite obviously means they have the intention to aid IRED in future conflicts between the Caldari Militia and IRED.



So, if I may summarise your argument:

1) You attacked us because we have a close working relationship with your enemies. Therefore, attacking a neutral that has a close working relationship with your enemies is justified.
2) The ILF should turn against a close ally who has helped us strategically and economically and is a proven friend of the Intaki people in order to gain the approval of a group of people of dubious morality with itchy trigger fingers?

I don't think we'll be acceding to your demands, not now, not ever. Is it really in the best interests of the Caldari Militia to have another enemy in Intaki? Apparently so.


Luc Divalone
Gallente
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2011.07.22 09:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mammal Tafren
Originally by: Super Chair
Also, adding IRED into the equation is indeed relevent. Hell's Revenge members originally moved assests to Intaki to monitor and skirmish against IRED as we saw fit (we had later begun to support our allies campaigns of surrounding systems while we were in the area) The lives lost aboard that mining vessel may have never been lost if IRED hadn't moved their combative forces out of Fliet and into Intaki. The lives of that crew are on your hands as well as mine. We are capable of showing mercy to "neutral" elements (although you would like to paint the caldari militia uncapable of such), however, there can be no mercy shown to those who assist our enemies and think they can continue to do so without repercussions.

If the IPI wish to avoid the future loss of life of their crews and loss of assests then I strongly advise seeking a blue agreement with Hell's Revenge in addition agreeing to a pact to stay clear of delivering any more assistance to IRED in regards to the conflict between IRED and the Caldari Militia. The demands above remain. If the ILF is indeed not assiting IRED then they could easily agree to such a demand, refusal to do so quite obviously means they have the intention to aid IRED in future conflicts between the Caldari Militia and IRED.



So, if I may summarise your argument:

1) You attacked us because we have a close working relationship with your enemies. Therefore, attacking a neutral that has a close working relationship with your enemies is justified.
2) The ILF should turn against a close ally who has helped us strategically and economically and is a proven friend of the Intaki people in order to gain the approval of a group of people of dubious morality with itchy trigger fingers?

I don't think we'll be acceding to your demands, not now, not ever. Is it really in the best interests of the Caldari Militia to have another enemy in Intaki? Apparently so.




another enemy.....the IPI...ooh better watch out. You guys would be nowhere without IRED. Cowards just like your Intaki ancestors. The cluster would be a better place without your filth

Valdezi
Amarr
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.22 09:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Luc Divalone

another enemy.....the IPI...ooh better watch out. You guys would be nowhere without IRED. Cowards just like your Intaki ancestors. The cluster would be a better place without your filth


Wow, what a poisonous little **** you are. Come by Intaki sometime, friend.

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.22 12:57:00 - [23]
 

It has been my experience during my time with the ILF that both sides of the conflict have seen pirate groups seek to disguise their nefarious behaviour by joining the otherwise honourable ranks of Federation and State militia.

I believe that this is generally accepted by both sides and it's true that the scale of the issue varies from time to time.

The ILF acknowledges that both militias see their own cause as just and bravely challenge the other in the defense of their chosen nation, but this becomes an issue when there is a deliberate increase in collatoral damage and the targetting on non-combat vessels of corporations and alliances that aren't even involved in the conflict.

I believe Mr Revenent touches on the truth of the matter when he highlights the fact that the Hell's Revenge corporation operates under an NBSI policy. Logic suggests that this policy would deem any mining vessels currently neutral to Hell's Revenge, regardless of any affiliation or otherwise negotiated third party standings, would be at serious risk from their pilots.

The attempt therefore to justify the attack as an extension to the conflict between some in the State militia and I-RED is severely lacking.

In terms of the commentary from the sidelines on the part of Mr Divalone, I fear Valdezi you may be disappointed if you're keen to get to grips with him in Intaki.

Despite his confrontational rhetoric here in the Summit I can imagine he's quietly hoping it has escaped people's attention that he was recently a member of the Risen Angels corporation.

It's possible his leaving that group was an attempt to distance himself from what I can only assume, given his enthusiasm in this discussion, must have been his embarrassment at his performance, or lack thereof, in the recent conflict between the IPI and Risen Angels in support of our friends in Federal Robotics.

So while Mr Divalone might like to publically disregard the ILF as having any real impact on the goings on in Intaki and beyond I think it is actually his own combat record [1][2] that is more telling.

Luc Divalone
Gallente
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2011.07.22 16:51:00 - [24]
 

ahh yes this must have something to do with my killscore and previous employment. Even more impressive is the killscore you guys have racked up since 2006. An impressive universe shaping 94 KILLS!!!! No wonder your region is over run with Pirates and Militia. Oh and lets not mention how most of those kills came on the heels of your IRED masters. You are nothing but lap dogs. Dig a little deeper and you may discover the real reason why i hate Intaki and its backstabbing people

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.07.22 17:08:00 - [25]
 

Quick clarification (as I otherwise have nothing to say in this thread), for those of you unfamiliar with Captain Divalone's date notation, by my best calculation it comes to YC 98.

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.22 17:29:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Bataav on 22/07/2011 17:31:07
Originally by: Luc Divalone
94 KILLS!

Yes, it's unfortunate that the team behind those particular records you refer to have archived all data that relates to kills and losses prior to YC113. I'm pleased to confirm though that more accurate statistics are available elsewhere. It's that particular reason I took the time and provided both reference links to your own statistics.

Of course it's as clear as day that our numbers still don't compete with the pirates and militias, but then the ILF pursues a peaceful secession and the IPI alliance proudly focusses on efforts of trade and commerce as opposed to violence of destruction.

Mr Divalone I wonder whether you actually read the opening statements above at all, or have any comprehension what the ILF and IPI actually stands for.

I would again echo the Suresha's words when he requests that both sides make peace.

CONCORD OOC censor applied. Zymurgist

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.07.22 18:11:00 - [27]
 

Dear god you guys are so lost. Super Chair is saying something really simple that even a child could understand. In what part of this sentence didn't you understand the simple concept: If you work for the enemy, YOU ARE THE ENEMY.

If you seriously believe that a corp, alliance or any entity can be in blackrise or other neighbor region can set home in there and be neutral they are wrong. Your either against us or with us. Sorry but in times of war, its only black and white...gray doesn't exist.

It seems so simple that we apply it fully.

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.22 18:59:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Bataav on 22/07/2011 19:00:04
Originally by: Syekuda
If you seriously believe that a corp, alliance or any entity can be in blackrise or other neighbor region can set home in there and be neutral they are wrong.

You say this as if we are the newcomers and are encroaching on State territory but the truth is quite the reverse.

Not only have the Intaki been in Placid for longer that the State has been in existance but even the ILF (founded in YC108) predates CONCORD's Emergency Militia War Powers Act and therefore the militia to which you belong by two whole years.

Originally by: Syekuda
If you work for the enemy, YOU ARE THE ENEMY.

I'm not even sure you understand your own conflicts...
  • Some corporations belonging to the State militia are currently hostile with the I-RED alliance. The ILF is not a member of I-RED. We are the executor corporation for the IPI. Quite simply the ILF and it's pilots do not work for I-RED.

  • As a member of one of the State militia's corporations your enemy are pilots belonging to the Federation and Republic militias. The ILF is neither. In fact we're secessionists campaigning for an independent Intaki outside the Federation so I doubt you'd be stupid enough to consider us as an enemy of the State on those terms, would you?

I invite you to provide details of repeated and regular occurances where ILF pilots have targetted, engaged and destroyed State militia assets upon the orders of I-RED or Federation militia leaderships which would reinforce your claims that the ILF is in the employ of your enemies.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.22 19:04:00 - [29]
 

I have doubts that ILI/ILF are affected by I-RED's blight yet, and they are fighting for themselves. I think the situation still can be handled diplomatically without turning them enemies. Because of their attitude towards the State they should be monitored closely and it's advised to pilots to stay on guard close to ILF vessels. Without open confrontation I don't think that hunting their ships is best tactics now.

I know that precautions are obligatory and I can't blame you for destroying potentially hostile vehicle in warzone (yes, they are marked slightly red for us too), but let them show their intention towards the State's forces before full scale conflict. Let them fire first. Otherwise you'll just do Alain Octirant's job of putting them in line of fire between Federation and the State.

Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.22 19:12:00 - [30]
 

Looking at the arguments as they have unfolded here, I find two discernibly different and conflicting moral traditions represented.
One, which can be traced back to Idama Aatreya, imagines a moral universe in which there is a multiplicity of human and social goods, and argues for balance and prudential deliberation to establish what is most important and needful with regard to particular issues and situations.
The second tradition, which can be traced to Gallente philosopher Guillaume d’Allonville, focuses on human dignity and respect and yields moral principles that are true, or held to be true, categorically, without exception. Frequently, these principles consist in absolute prohibitions of certain kinds of conduct, whatever the consequences of adhering to the prohibition may be.
In distinguishing right from wrong, absolutists don’t see much of a difference between mathematical calculation and moral reasoning. They’re extraordinarily confident about their ethical judgments, which can range from uncompromising commitment to truth, responsibility and authority of law to ideas about religious beliefs, protecting the environment and even body modification and fashion choices. Although absolutism is often associated with conservatism, radical liberals can be just as rigid.
While absolutists are less likely to rationalize or fall into the traps of situational ethics, they can become disrespectfully intolerant of other perspectives. Although they can be highly honorable, a “no exceptions” approach to principles can lead to undesirable results.
It is easy to admire the stout resolution of the absolutist, for they stand strong as a mighty oak on their beliefs. However, I am reminded of a story Intaki parents tell their children about an oak tree that was confident in its strength above all else.
A very large oak was uprooted by the wind and thrown across a stream. It fell among some Reeds, which it thus addressed: "I wonder how you, who are so light and weak, are not entirely crushed by these strong winds." They replied, "You fight and contend with the wind, and consequently you are destroyed; while we on the contrary bend before the least breath of air, and therefore remain unbroken, and escape."


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