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Van Derka
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:11:00 - [1]
 

All I hear is Zero point Zero.

Force all the underskilled and poor out into the low and null sec space to be fodder for the players who have superior skills and a blob to back them up.

Force all the underskilled and poor to mine crap low value ores reducing their options further in obtaining a pvp competitive ship...

Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.... Well if you take away all the resources and play from highsec, how are people sposed to build up a bank to buy the pvp ship to take to lowsec...

If you can only afford the buy one pvp ship a month, because the rest of your time is spent market/mining to get the ISK to buy the hull and mods to fly to null, then by focusing on 0.0 constantly and nerfing highsec, your chewing off the arm that feeds the pvp machine.

If anything highsec should become more lucrutive so noobs can generate more ISK so they can actually afford to lose a few hulls to low/nullsec roams...

Losing ships in EVE should have impact, you should feel bad about losing your ship, but you shouldnt have to spend so much time earning ISK in game...

Why should someone spend half their months play time mining or grinding missions for 20 seconds of pvp lose?

Buff highsec ores or do something to make new players and even 1yo players earn more ISK quicker so they can get out to where the 'real' game is, 0.0.






Darryl Ward
Posted - 2011.07.19 16:03:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Darryl Ward on 19/07/2011 16:03:50
My advice is: don't run out to 0.0 without finding a blob to fly with first.

Superior skills do not make up for playing the game badly. It's deadly when you run into someone who both plays well and has the SP to back it up, but often you'll run into someone who has one or the other, or neither even (the most fun, you can laugh about it later).

If I have money problems, I keep a mission-ready jump clone in high sec. Nothing wrong with a little grind for some ISK occasionally. I usually fly Drake, so that's a few hours worth of work. Yeah, it could get blown up in 5 minutes, and I could also log off and not play this game. I'd rather play it, I accept the possible outcomes.

Eve is all about risk vs. reward. TBH, unless you've got multiple people with you, you won't be making decent money in 0.0 unless you have a great true sec system (like -0.5 and lower). WH is another risk vs. reward scenario that can pay out big time, and will require finding people to fly with too.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.19 21:34:00 - [3]
 

People beat that drum because other than peer pressure, no one has a terribly good reason to go to null sec. I make more isk in empire with less risk. The only thing empire cannot provide me is a steady stream of PVP (pirating in low sec is 10 parts hunting and 1 part ganking a noob, which is not very satisfying to me), which can be obtained whether you live in null or not. The much vaunted "part of something bigger" has a bitter taste in my mouth after repeated changes CCP has made over the years benefiting old alliances to the detriment of newer alliances.

Koen L
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.07.21 12:15:00 - [4]
 

Roughly estimated 30% or even more of 0.0 systems are empty. There are no players in it.
Yesterday i was flying around 0.0 and i have seen more then 30 emtpy systems without sov.
In Between some good systems full with 0.0 players, but statistically 0.0 is empty, as far as i have seen. So go there and be part of it.
ccp has messed 0.0 in a bad way so there is really no need to buff highsec anymore.

Sinikka Huiputti
Posted - 2011.07.21 13:11:00 - [5]
 

it seems to me majority of players are still in hi sec and will remain so unless hi sec carebearing including industry is going to get hit by serious nerfbat.

more isk doesnt make anyone want to go for pvp, it's fundamentally flawed thinking. pvp is cheap, you only need rifter or rupture whatever tech 1 crap shi and you can kill ****.

if you can't manage to do even that you are not going to bring out tengu for pvp.

Jaxon Grylls
Posted - 2011.07.21 14:22:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti
it seems to me majority of players are still in hi sec and will remain so unless hi sec carebearing including industry is going to get hit by serious nerfbat.

more isk doesnt make anyone want to go for pvp, it's fundamentally flawed thinking. pvp is cheap, you only need rifter or rupture whatever tech 1 crap shi and you can kill ****.

if you can't manage to do even that you are not going to bring out tengu for pvp.



So what? I'm not in the business of telling other people what to do and neither should anyone else be. Play PvP if you like, it's no affair of mine, but I have noticed a tendency from certain sections of the player base who insist that there is only one true way. If someone wants to ponce around in a Tengu in 0.9 or higher, let them. EVE is a *GAME* not a cult or religion. If someone gets a kick out of preying on newbie frigates and blowing them to bits, they may be objectionable and a pain, but that is their right.

Please stop trying for a one-size-fits-all approach. After all we play EVE because, presumably, we like doing so and part of the attraction is the open ended nature of the game. You never know, someone might be a minister of religion in RL but in EVE the baddest and worst pirate imaginable, if so, good on them.

If the industry in hisec is to be cut down to size as you suggest who's going to provide the ships, ammunition, rigs etc. if 0.0 and nullsec are so seriously disadvantaged as you seem to be suggesting. A lot of 0.0 residents also have alts in hisec in order to provide the material used in the mega fights we keep hearing about.

Name Family Name
Posted - 2011.07.22 11:25:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jaxon Grylls

So what? I'm not in the business of telling other people what to do and neither should anyone else be. Play PvP if you like, it's no affair of mine, but I have noticed a tendency from certain sections of the player base who insist that there is only one true way. If someone wants to ponce around in a Tengu in 0.9 or higher, [...]

If the industry in hisec is to be cut down to size as you suggest who's going to provide the ships, ammunition, rigs etc. if 0.0 and nullsec are so seriously disadvantaged as you seem to be suggesting. A lot of 0.0 residents also have alts in hisec in order to provide the material used in the mega fights we keep hearing about.


No one wants to force anyone to do pvp or move to nullsec. The problem is balancing of risk vs reward - or better: Effort vs. reward, since there's not much risk in sitting in blob and shooting at primaries in a a ship that is going to be reimbursed by the alliance.

People in nullsec have to build an own infrastructure, pay sovbills, upgrade their space and defend it after they conquered it - and for what? To get plexes that are on par with highsec l4s if they happen to hold space with decent trusec or worse if they don't? Ridiculous industrialist opportunities compared to Highsec? Moongoo may be an exception, but the typical grunt wont see much from that.

Shoot red crosses in absolute safety without ever having made any effort to achieve said safety all day long if you want, but adjust the payout accordingly.

D'Leh Mannuck
Posted - 2011.07.22 13:55:00 - [8]
 

rofl, plexing and running sanctums in 0.0 makes way more ISK than running lvl 4's.

If you only manage to make as much there as in lvl 4's you might want to scratch behind your own ears first.

You want people in empire punished financially because they chose to remain there only because you feel punished in your wallet in 0.0

But didn't you choose to go there with all consequences?

Koen L
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.07.22 14:48:00 - [9]
 

Systems with sanctums are badly nerfed. Most system dont have sanctums anymore, you heared about that ?

Name Family Name
Posted - 2011.07.22 15:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck
rofl, plexing and running sanctums in 0.0 makes way more ISK than running lvl 4's.

If you only manage to make as much there as in lvl 4's you might want to scratch behind your own ears first.



Good luck trying to find sanctums in places like providence. And if you make less money in l4s than in Havens, you should check your LP to isk conversion rates.

Quote:

You want people in empire punished financially because they chose to remain there only because you feel punished in your wallet in 0.0



Nobody ever mentioned financially punishing anyone. The CSM logs and the upcoming 0.0 changes are aimed at buffing nullsecs industrial capabilities so it's not entirely dependent on highsec.
As living in highsec doesn't require any effort or coordination at all, income possibilities should reflect that. This can either be acheived by buffing nullsec income or nerfing highsec income, but wasn't matter of debate either in this thread or the CSM summit, except for said long overdue buff for nullsec industry.

Quote:

But didn't you choose to go there with all consequences?



I don't live in nullsec - would be pretty ******ed, given the current income distribution.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.22 22:20:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 22/07/2011 22:24:08
Originally by: Name Family Name
I don't live in nullsec - would be pretty ******ed, given the current income distribution.


Right on man. Got a wife and two kids to feed at home, right? **** playin this game for fun, you got bills to pay!

People on both sides of this argument need to get their heads out of their asses. This shouldnt be about BLOO BLOO MY SPACE MONEY! It should be about making every playstyle enjoyable. Nullsec is being revamped because current mechanics, esp. sov and scaps, are ****. Nobody gives a **** about your anoms. And to the glorious WH whiners on the other end: deal wiz it. You don't need ark in c1 w-space. Grow the **** up and get into a big-boy wormhole if you want high-ends and good sites. There was NO discussion of removing high-end roids from C4-6, so the serious WH folks are not going to care. Just the ******s building carriers in their c1 for no reason.

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:39:00 - [12]
 

The problem with Null sec isn't the game or the mechanics or CCp. Its the leadership. They got their sandbox and this is what they made. CCP has tried to straighten some stuff out but that doesn't change the people. If null wants to sort out the problem, they should start by looking in the mirror.

Dolm De'Mourne
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:42:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 22/07/2011 22:24:08
Originally by: Name Family Name
I don't live in nullsec - would be pretty ******ed, given the current income distribution.


Right on man. Got a wife and two kids to feed at home, right? **** playin this game for fun, you got bills to pay!

People on both sides of this argument need to get their heads out of their asses. This shouldnt be about BLOO BLOO MY SPACE MONEY! It should be about making every playstyle enjoyable. Nullsec is being revamped because current mechanics, esp. sov and scaps, are ****. Nobody gives a **** about your anoms. And to the glorious WH whiners on the other end: deal wiz it. You don't need ark in c1 w-space. Grow the **** up and get into a big-boy wormhole if you want high-ends and good sites. There was NO discussion of removing high-end roids from C4-6, so the serious WH folks are not going to care. Just the ******s building carriers in their c1 for no reason.


The CSM meeting minutes actually stated the CSM wanted C1-4 ABC removed, so no, apparently C4 dwellers are not serious enough for the CSM to care about. I even lived in a C3 for a few months.

The issue I have is the CSM trying to nerf all other play styles into oblivion so that nullsec has a "fair" reward for the effort they put forth. And while I agree they are right, between moon mining/ABC's/DED 7-10plexs and other null sites/anoms(admittedly nerfed, but not for everyone)/officer spawns/etc, I'd have to think the issues with null aren't fixed by nerfing other areas of the game, but by making the rewards already there more accessible. So what if someone takes a hulk in a C1 2 jumps from Jita. Is there a grav sig there at the time? How do you think it will fare when a ship with weapons comes through the same hole?

C1's are not safe, regardless of the system the entry point is in, this only took me 1 time to learn.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:21:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne


The CSM meeting minutes actually stated the CSM wanted C1-4 ABC removed, so no, apparently C4 dwellers are not serious enough for the CSM to care about. I even lived in a C3 for a few months.


Welp, I goofed. I have to stand against removing high ends from C4's because that makes no logical sense.

Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne

The issue I have is the CSM trying to nerf all other play styles into oblivion so that nullsec has a "fair" reward for the effort they put forth. And while I agree they are right, between moon mining/ABC's/DED 7-10plexs and other null sites/anoms(admittedly nerfed, but not for everyone)/officer spawns/etc, I'd have to think the issues with null aren't fixed by nerfing other areas of the game, but by making the rewards already there more accessible. So what if someone takes a hulk in a C1 2 jumps from Jita. Is there a grav sig there at the time? How do you think it will fare when a ship with weapons comes through the same hole?


I don't think the CSM is carrying this charge. Soundwave is convinced there's too much love in EVE atm and he's right. The agenda, as far as I can tell, is to appropriately disperse some resources to generate more compeition, conflict, and player-driven gameplay. Nullsec is taking it's lumps too so I really can't imagine you'd think wh's are being targeted and nobody else. I think the lucky hulk pilot is a stupid example, sorry Mittens. A more apt description of the problem is permanent residents in these low-class wh's reaping nullsec level benefits when the mass limit of the in-routs dont allow for an equal capital-heavy response. You could argue the dangerous nature of operating there out-weighs this safty for your POS, but I think that's grabbing at straws tbh. I've seen wh corps build multipul carriers in a c1 just to *****, show off, and basically make an offensive of their little nugget an impossible task for all but the most determined foe with many many days to kill. It just doesn't make sense to allow for that when the other resources present are already great income.

Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne

C1's are not safe, regardless of the system the entry point is in, this only took me 1 time to learn.


As I said, it's not so much a matter of being safe in space as it is being relatively hard to remove completely from said space. I think low class wormholes have a lot to offer aside from the high end ore. I really don't see their removal as a line in the sand worth fussing about.

Dolm De'Mourne
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:49:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne


The CSM meeting minutes actually stated the CSM wanted C1-4 ABC removed, so no, apparently C4 dwellers are not serious enough for the CSM to care about. I even lived in a C3 for a few months.


Welp, I goofed. I have to stand against removing high ends from C4's because that makes no logical sense.

Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne

The issue I have is the CSM trying to nerf all other play styles into oblivion so that nullsec has a "fair" reward for the effort they put forth. And while I agree they are right, between moon mining/ABC's/DED 7-10plexs and other null sites/anoms(admittedly nerfed, but not for everyone)/officer spawns/etc, I'd have to think the issues with null aren't fixed by nerfing other areas of the game, but by making the rewards already there more accessible. So what if someone takes a hulk in a C1 2 jumps from Jita. Is there a grav sig there at the time? How do you think it will fare when a ship with weapons comes through the same hole?


I don't think the CSM is carrying this charge. Soundwave is convinced there's too much love in EVE atm and he's right. The agenda, as far as I can tell, is to appropriately disperse some resources to generate more compeition, conflict, and player-driven gameplay. Nullsec is taking it's lumps too so I really can't imagine you'd think wh's are being targeted and nobody else. I think the lucky hulk pilot is a stupid example, sorry Mittens. A more apt description of the problem is permanent residents in these low-class wh's reaping nullsec level benefits when the mass limit of the in-routs dont allow for an equal capital-heavy response. You could argue the dangerous nature of operating there out-weighs this safty for your POS, but I think that's grabbing at straws tbh. I've seen wh corps build multipul carriers in a c1 just to *****, show off, and basically make an offensive of their little nugget an impossible task for all but the most determined foe with many many days to kill. It just doesn't make sense to allow for that when the other resources present are already great income.

Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne

C1's are not safe, regardless of the system the entry point is in, this only took me 1 time to learn.


As I said, it's not so much a matter of being safe in space as it is being relatively hard to remove completely from said space. I think low class wormholes have a lot to offer aside from the high end ore. I really don't see their removal as a line in the sand worth fussing about.


My personal position in the matter of WH and ABC is that removal from C1's and C2's would probably only affect their target audience of "daytrippers" and those who are abusing the limitations, so I'm really not opposed there, but between my alts and myself I have and will again live in a C3 as a small group. I do not see C3's as a place where ABC needs removed and would rather see the entrances reconfigured not to spawn in highsec than discourage long-term dwellers in C3/4's.

That being said, the bulk of my discontent with the CSM opinions is the idea of essentially nerfing non 0.0 play to make 0.0 more attractive. WH's are one example of this. Additionally there was talk of nerfing highsec industry or making certain universal parts of industry nullsec only activities. I'm not a WH only advocate. I am however against CCP or the CSM making everyone outside of 0.0 miserable to make null seem more attractive by comparison instead of fixing it.

Null has significant isk earning opportunities that no other area in the game has. Even after the nerfs, 0.0 is still in my opinion undervalued and underutilized. With a few good changes it could be great while leaving the rest of the game intact.

As far as Soundwave goes, he's fighting human nature. No game mechanic in the world can beat that.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.23 03:55:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne

Null has significant isk earning opportunities that no other area in the game has. Even after the nerfs, 0.0 is still in my opinion undervalued and underutilized. With a few good changes it could be great while leaving the rest of the game intact.

As far as Soundwave goes, he's fighting human nature. No game mechanic in the world can beat that.


You lost me there.

First, I live in NPC 00 with good truesec most of the time. Null has great opportunities to be exploited sure, but you live under the gun for it. I am sometimes cut off from my farming areas for days or weeks because of sov. warfare and I don't even take part in it. My experience in W-space was similar, except for the unique feature that I rarely had to batton down the hatches for half as long. The worst thing ever to happen to me in my c2 wh was when a small gang of wh roamers re-enforced my POS and forced me to invite one of my mates to help me drive them off while I POS gunned. They quickly dispersed after finding out my POS wouldn't simply kick-off at their leisure.

My simple point is this: I think the risk and reward mantra is what they want to project here. I don't see a huge armageddon coming on because high ends cease to be in c1-3 wormholes (although i'll repeat they do belong in c4's per my judgement, take it for what that's worth) or because ice leaves highsec.

Assuming the worst case scenario where nullsec/high class w-space becomes the bottle-neck for all industrial ventures in eve we will just see even more vigorous attempts to colonize these areas and replenish the starved marketplace which will undoubtedly be in high demand for the materials in question.

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 13:06:00 - [17]
 

To op, vote in this thread and don't include any null sec votes. Some nice work is being done. If CSM goes against hard numbers, CCP can always dismiss their direction as detrimental to the company. Null CSM's will represent their voters but here is a chance to let csm evolve.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555249

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.25 16:43:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Soundwave is convinced there's too much love in EVE atm and he's right. The agenda, as far as I can tell, is to appropriately disperse some resources to generate more compeition, conflict, and player-driven gameplay. Nullsec is taking it's lumps too so I really can't imagine you'd think wh's are being targeted and nobody else. I think the lucky hulk pilot is a stupid example, sorry Mittens. A more apt description of the problem is permanent residents in these low-class wh's reaping nullsec level benefits when the mass limit of the in-routs dont allow for an equal capital-heavy response. You could argue the dangerous nature of operating there out-weighs this safty for your POS, but I think that's grabbing at straws tbh. I've seen wh corps build multipul carriers in a c1 just to *****, show off, and basically make an offensive of their little nugget an impossible task for all but the most determined foe with many many days to kill. It just doesn't make sense to allow for that when the other resources present are already great income.

Soundwave is right. The problem is that much of that love is focused on Incurions. I've run lvl 4s and 5s as a mission runner. 4s are solid, risk free income. I've run sanctums and they are riskier but a bit better income. However, when I get into a good Incursion fleet, I make laughably over-the-top income that puts all other income faucets in the game to shame. No risk, no investment in sov or standings, just join a fleet with the right people and laugh all the way to the bank.

CCP makes new content, then takes the carrots/sticks concept of getting people to use them to an extreme. Older players have seen the trend and follow it to their financial advantage while new players are still scrambling to get in on the income source that by then is so last expansion.

As to WHs, the problem with WHs has always been the ability to stronghold them. Not only is it easy to close up incoming WHs that can bring risk to your space, but you can build up caps to defend the space which would require a long time with concerted effort for an opposing force to build up the fleet needed to take the residents on. At this rate, WHs are going to become more stagnant than null used to be.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:36:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Soundwave is right. The problem is that much of that love is focused on Incurions. I've run lvl 4s and 5s as a mission runner. 4s are solid, risk free income. I've run sanctums and they are riskier but a bit better income. However, when I get into a good Incursion fleet, I make laughably over-the-top income that puts all other income faucets in the game to shame. No risk, no investment in sov or standings, just join a fleet with the right people and laugh all the way to the bank.


Easily adjusted if they like. Change the pay-out (it's static afterall), LP, or LP store itself. But, I agree it's over the top atm.

Originally by: Bagehi

CCP makes new content, then takes the carrots/sticks concept of getting people to use them to an extreme. Older players have seen the trend and follow it to their financial advantage while new players are still scrambling to get in on the income source that by then is so last expansion.


Malcanis' Law in action. No change can ever benefit newbies more than vets in this game.

Originally by: Bagehi

As to WHs, the problem with WHs has always been the ability to stronghold them. Not only is it easy to close up incoming WHs that can bring risk to your space, but you can build up caps to defend the space which would require a long time with concerted effort for an opposing force to build up the fleet needed to take the residents on. At this rate, WHs are going to become more stagnant than null used to be.



That was exactly my point and the reason why I agreed lower class wh space shouldn't have high-ends. It's simply too much incentive to entrench in them and that's exactly what we've been seeing. It makes perfect sense in a C6 where cap invasions are not just possible, but a matter of time, but the low class wormholes should be solely given over to transient life, subcaps, etc. There should be no happy corner to hole up in and reap rewards whist garunteeing that you will out-gun your opponents due to game mechanics.

StukaBee
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:55:00 - [20]
 

highsec peons should know their place.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.07.29 18:33:00 - [21]
 

Obviously, rather than fixing my car, I should just take a bat around the neighborhood and beat the **** out of all the others cars to make mine look appealing.

Zyracon
Posted - 2011.07.29 21:59:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Super Chair
Obviously, rather than fixing my car, I should just take a bat around the neighborhood and beat the **** out of all the others cars to make mine look appealing.


Not trying to troll here, but tbh this is a PvP game at its heart. Its got to be balanced around PvP. Complaining about it just makes you look stupid.

Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.30 09:32:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Zyracon
[Not trying to troll here, but tbh this is a PvP game at its heart. Its got to be balanced around PvP. Complaining about it just makes you look stupid.


Or alternatively, you are taking a wider view of what EVE has to offer and not confining yourself to one aspect of the game. Surely EVE is big enough for everyone to play as they wish?

After all who makes all the ships,rigs, ammunition used up in PVP?

Zirse
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.30 14:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Cedille Mureau
Originally by: Zyracon
[Not trying to troll here, but tbh this is a PvP game at its heart. Its got to be balanced around PvP. Complaining about it just makes you look stupid.


Or alternatively, you are taking a wider view of what EVE has to offer and not confining yourself to one aspect of the game. Surely EVE is big enough for everyone to play as they wish?

After all who makes all the ships,rigs, ammunition used up in PVP?


Alts.

I do a lot of Industry. I mean a lot. A lot of 'PvP' players do. I've done mostly everything from mining to invention to Jump Freightering. The only thing I've avoided is T3 production and cap production. There isn't some arbitrary rule stating that if you use spreadhseets you can't PvP.

Without the carebears, the game continues.

Without the PvP, there is nothing.

NutCazz
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:28:00 - [25]
 



I live in nullsec and the empty systems there hase no plexes to run.... so u cant make lotz isk in those systems!
Soon nullsec is all russian and no1 else can live there .... or go learn some russian soon so maby the invite u.




Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.08 19:02:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 08/08/2011 21:19:17


Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck
rofl, plexing and running sanctums in 0.0 makes way more ISK than running lvl 4's.

If you only manage to make as much there as in lvl 4's you might want to scratch behind your own ears first.

You want people in empire punished financially because they chose to remain there only because you feel punished in your wallet in 0.0

But didn't you choose to go there with all consequences?



This^^ X a thousand.

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:15:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Van Derka

Force all the underskilled and poor out into the low and null sec space to be fodder for the players who have superior skills and a blob to back them up.

Less blobs? blame ccp about poor sov and capital mechanics

Originally by: Van Derka

Force all the underskilled and poor to mine crap low value ores reducing their options further in obtaining a pvp competitive ship...

Underskilled as in no skillpoints to make any differance anyway and being poor as in having no brains or too lazy to figur out to make isk by trading or other stuffs?

Originally by: Van Derka

Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.... Well if you take away all the resources and play from highsec, how are people sposed to build up a bank to buy the pvp ship to take to lowsec...

As in above, and eve is a game about choise... if u lose here u suppose to lose. I can suggest WoW to u

Originally by: Van Derka

If you can only afford the buy one pvp ship a month, because the rest of your time is spent market/mining to get the ISK to buy the hull and mods to fly to null, then by focusing on 0.0 constantly and nerfing highsec, your chewing off the arm that feeds the pvp machine.

T2 fitted hurricane cost 60 mil, 24 mil for hull, insure it and u lose 40 mil if u lose the cane in fight. So u can only affort to lose 40 million isk a month?

Originally by: Van Derka

If anything highsec should become more lucrutive so noobs can generate more ISK so they can actually afford to lose a few hulls to low/nullsec roams...

carebears are greedy give them more isk and they spend it on shiny pimped mission ships... only spen more tiem bearing

Originally by: Van Derka

Losing ships in EVE should have impact, you should feel bad about losing your ship, but you shouldnt have to spend so much time earning ISK in game...

as 2 bad troll sincentces earlier

Originally by: Van Derka

Why should someone spend half their months play time mining or grinding missions for 20 seconds of pvp lose?


Test server ftw

Originally by: Van Derka

Buff highsec ores or do something to make new players and even 1yo players earn more ISK quicker so they can get out to where the 'real' game is, 0.0.

no comment








FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.10 21:32:00 - [28]
 

Highsec is fine the way it is. Leave it alone. Carebears are 99% safe there and that's fine. The only possible changes I'd like to see would be EITHER a change to the wardec mechanic to prevent long-term griefing of noob corps, OR a change to locator agents so it's possible for people under wardec to go to ground and not be stalked from system to system for days on end (I've heard there are supposedly ways to avoid this, but I've yet to see anyone actually suggest something).

What really needs fixing is lowsec. There's very little draw for people to risk going into low except piracy, and any noobs looking to just "check it out" are going to get ****d by the indiscriminate "lol I got another shuttle killmail" buffoons that pollute the place. I regularly spend time in lowsec and w-space, but I have a hard time tempting my more carebearish corpmates into low because they see so little reward in it.

Make lowsec more profitable, maybe make it safer somehow (NOT highsec, but less like nullsec + gateguns), and I think you'll see a lot more semi-carebears take their first steps into PVP as they chase the almighty isk out to lowsec.

Maximum Kiely
Caldari
Kiely and Son Salvage
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:56:00 - [29]
 

Totally spit-balling here but meh, I feel like spit-balling today. Perhaps this has been suggested before or is just a stupid idea and if so that's cool, I'm just throwing the idea out there…

What about a change to Faction Warfare, where by joining FW you get a T1 fitted faction ship instead of a crappy rookie ship when you lose your ship? That way new players that join and want some pvp may be more willing to take the plunge knowing they won't be stuck mining in a rookie ship to grind isk if they lose their ship. This may require the creation of a "rookie level" of faction ship so the bottom doesn't fall out of the market on the current ones. Something like a Navy Merlin or Condor, using the Caldari for an example.

The current way FW is setup is like telling a soldier if he gets his tank blown up he has to buy himself a new one. Is this not a little ridiculous in wars between great "empires"?

They'll probably still be fodder, but maybe they'll be more willing fodder. They'll also be learning the ropes and if the experience is enjoyable they'll venture out there in their own ships eventually, with a little experience under their belt so it isn't viewed as such a risk.

Anyway, just a thought.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.14 13:42:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Maximum Kiely
Totally spit-balling here but meh, I feel like spit-balling today. Perhaps this has been suggested before or is just a stupid idea and if so that's cool, I'm just throwing the idea out there…

What about a change to Faction Warfare, where by joining FW you get a T1 fitted faction ship instead of a crappy rookie ship when you lose your ship? That way new players that join and want some pvp may be more willing to take the plunge knowing they won't be stuck mining in a rookie ship to grind isk if they lose their ship. This may require the creation of a "rookie level" of faction ship so the bottom doesn't fall out of the market on the current ones. Something like a Navy Merlin or Condor, using the Caldari for an example.

The current way FW is setup is like telling a soldier if he gets his tank blown up he has to buy himself a new one. Is this not a little ridiculous in wars between great "empires"?

They'll probably still be fodder, but maybe they'll be more willing fodder. They'll also be learning the ropes and if the experience is enjoyable they'll venture out there in their own ships eventually, with a little experience under their belt so it isn't viewed as such a risk.

Anyway, just a thought.


Not a bad idea, creating perks for the faction war fighters. I would even create ranks, or perhaps award points for FW kills that could be used to buy bigger ship. What would REALLY make FW attractive is if it had its own LP store (or does it? I've never done FW) with exclusive faction ships.

Some friends and I have been working on an idea that would amount to a major expansion for non-FW lowsec space. We're trying to put together a cohesive idea before putting it out there for the rest of the world to mock us :)


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