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blankseplocked CCP: What DO the logs show?
 
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:03:00 - [1]
 

After losing yet another ship* because of unplayable lag (whether client-side or server-side) and getting the usual "our logs show nothing" petition response, I have two questions:

1) What DO the logs show?

and

2) Considering how often EVE suffers from various bugs/poor performance/etc, why haven't you produced a proper log system that can record appropriate information to reimburse a much higher percentage of ships lost because of game problems?



*Undock, slideshow FPS, get podded while ship is still at 50% HP.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:07:00 - [2]
 

Rolling Eyes
fail poster fail
Reimburstment
Specifically

4) Losses caused by lag or non-server related disconnection will not be reimbursed.

Elina Tan
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:20:00 - [3]
 

@OP: Fair questions; but I doubt you'll ever see an answer.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:33:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 19/07/2011 08:34:15

Why would the GMs have access to the logs the devs use for debugging/triage purposes?

They probably wouldn't even understand the specifics of what is being logged and how to interpret these logs because they lack the necessary insight in the server code's workings.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:50:00 - [5]
 

What ppl experience the most are desyncronisations. You think you have 50% armor but infact u are already down to 10% structure. No log can show this, as both server and client both sent and recieved the correct information.. just not correct time when the client recieved it.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.07.19 09:46:00 - [6]
 

The logs in theory would show EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING, but imagine if CCP had to reimburse everyone who lost a ship to lag, bug or exploits, they would be giving out trillions a day freely

Lag makes the economy grow

Mr Mvoice
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.19 09:56:00 - [7]
 

Them log's never show anything, and don't be fooled to think you might get reimbursed anything.


Let me paint you a picture, from first hand account:


Freighter warps to station, and lands "0" on station, he gets tackled - normally you just dock and LOLZ in local - but heck no. The Freighter has "aggression" WTF, Freighter gets destroyed.

Petition is filed "as Freighter can't agrees due to lack of weapons", but heck no.. "our Logs do not show anything, sorry for you loss"..

Moral of all of this, -this is EvE, you are the story and your loss will effect 1000+ ppl in this game, as someone will have to mine / invent / build what you lost.

You jumped into system where you could expect lag, dont expect reimbursement for your own mistake.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.19 10:14:00 - [8]
 

Gonna give you a little insider secret.

The logs show basically nothing when it comes to latency and desync.

All they show is who was in the area at certain timestamps and what they did.

Getting any more complicated then that would require an actual dev. GM's are simply not trained well enough to do extensive detective work.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.19 10:19:00 - [9]
 

The logs show a new EVE Trailer.

Bootboy Maraki
Posted - 2011.07.19 10:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
The logs in theory would show EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING, but imagine if CCP had to reimburse everyone who lost a ship to lag, bug or exploits, they would be giving out trillions a day freely

Lag makes the economy grow


Yes, indeed, all my bought ships were FREE on the market.
CCP should reimburse but fail service is fail.

If game companies had to operate liek real companies they would be out of business within the week. Let's say a company has sold you backup-space, where you have started typing in lots and lots of documentation etc. What happens if said company has a hardware crash, they still have your backups but decide to not give them to you?

Out of business instantly!

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.19 10:32:00 - [11]
 

logs....

You know: as developer of IP-phone system i often have bugreports from 1 customer: "bad quality of connection". And yes: i see in logs that there were big packet losses for this connection. However i have no information where those packets came from and/or what happened with packets server sent to his phone.

So yes. Sometimes "Logs show nothing" (except big losses in channel we can't solve) Sad

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:04:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
The logs in theory would show EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING, but imagine if CCP had to reimburse everyone who lost a ship to lag, bug or exploits, they would be giving out trillions a day freely


Or they'd just have to fix their game so it works properly. But that would be much less fun than having the Door.

Originally by: Mr Mvoice
Petition is filed "as Freighter can't agrees due to lack of weapons", but heck no.. "our Logs do not show anything, sorry for you loss"..



See, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Everyone knows the aggro timer system has its issues, so why don't the logs include your aggression status (including how it was obtained)? With a proper logging system, reimbursing the freighter loss would be obvious and easy.

Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Kincaid Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:08:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin

Originally by: Mr Mvoice
Petition is filed "as Freighter can't agrees due to lack of weapons", but heck no.. "our Logs do not show anything, sorry for you loss"..



See, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Everyone knows the aggro timer system has its issues, so why don't the logs include your aggression status (including how it was obtained)? With a proper logging system, reimbursing the freighter loss would be obvious and easy.


The dev anwsers thread reveals that the system handling aggro mechanics and crime is largely bandaids at this point, and a complete re-write is high on the priority list.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:15:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
With a proper logging system, reimbursing the freighter loss would be obvious and easy.


And CCP would be out 2 shiny new plex cards or so, the approximate cost of a frieghter.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:19:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 20/07/2011 20:19:42

I dimly recall that they offer to have another look at a petition if you cancel your account over the unsatisfying outcome (not joking/trolling).

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:21:00 - [16]
 

Actually you know it would be cool if we could get them to post like 100 lines of an actual log file in a dev blog or something.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:55:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 20/07/2011 20:55:48
Originally by: Saju Somtaaw
The dev anwsers thread reveals that the system handling aggro mechanics and crime is largely bandaids at this point, and a complete re-write is high on the priority list.


Which I understand. EVE is a complicated system, and expecting 100% perfect results (especially with limited developer time) is not realistic. Bugs are going to happen, and I'm fine with that as long as there is a legitimate effort to resolve them.

What I don't understand is why CCP is unable (or unwilling) to produce a logging system that can record whatever information is required to reimburse losses suffered as a result of those bugs. If, for whatever reason, they are unable to fix a broken system, I don't really think it's unrealistic to expect that they make it a priority to fix the consequences of it.


Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
With a proper logging system, reimbursing the freighter loss would be obvious and easy.


And CCP would be out 2 shiny new plex cards or so, the approximate cost of a frieghter.


I wish I could object to this statement, but given their recent actions I really can't.

Jin Endashi
Posted - 2011.07.20 21:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: CCP
The Logs Show Nothing.


 

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