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Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.19 07:05:00 - [1]
 

At this point in time, I am close to completing my training with the Republic Military School, and will soon have my entry into the Tribal Liberation Force. I owe my capsuleer training to the School and the Republic, and servitude with the TLF seems only right. But at the same time, it doesn't.

My qualm with meeting the Amarr in the field doesn't lie with the fact that I'm afraid of combat, or think I'll feel any remorse killing those weak-minded backbirths. It's that any Amarrian vessel I will engage from cruiser-sized upwards will have slave complements in her crew. It's simply naive to deny it. And if freeing any number of my brothers means ending the life of another, that's an 'honour' I'm not in any hurry to receive.

To cut a long story short, my mind is swaying toward defection to the Caldari State. They uphold a culture of honour, duty and respect, as does my homeland. They hold no slaves, and no imaginary being steers their affairs. And most importantly, if there's one thing that boils this Matari's blood to the same degree as institutionalised religion and slavery, it's terrorism. I don't want to stand next to slavers, but if serving the Republic means holding the hand of a nation which glorifies suicide attacks on civilians, I have to consider where that puts me.

Well, I guess that's it. So where to from here?

Markius TheShed
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.19 07:25:00 - [2]
 

So your first thought is to join the Caldari instead of the Gallente?

The Caldari are currently occupying the Gallente system of Harroule, In a bid to increase their corporate power and wealth at the cost of the death of millions of civilians caught in the cross fire. Caldari bragging

They may hold no slaves but they support the Amarr with weapons ships and personnel.

The crews of Amarrian ships are not civilians they are Vitoc addicted mindless shells of their former selfs, You will be freeing them from a Hellish existence and the death of a few will free millions in the future.

The Republic has already captured 7 Amarrian systems and freed millions of slaves, in war casualties are unavoidable.

If you cannot face this fact PLEASE join the Gallente instead.

Mizhara Del'thul
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.07.19 07:50:00 - [3]
 

So... you're going to allow the Empire to use our blood as hostages? To let them perpetrate further evils and enslave more of our kind, because you are afraid of getting your hands dirty? Very well, abandon them instead then. Let the Empire use our own as hostages against you. We will manage without you... and as for those Vitoc addled wrecks on the Amarrian ships, well... We'll give them the freedom the Empire took from them. The only freedom they can ever know.

Dying on your feet will always be preferable to living on your knees.

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:31:00 - [4]
 

Contrary to what you may be told, you are not beholden to any imperial authority. You belong to an elite community at the cutting edge of humanity in technological progress, with an extensive array of military and scientific tools at your fingertips. Governments and corporations alike seek your service in exchange for financial reimbursement; this is business, not nationalism, sir.

Please do not forget that your loyalty lies with yourself and your species, and you owe both more than nationalistic pride can offer.

Katrina Oniseki
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:34:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Katrina Oniseki on 19/07/2011 08:34:17
Originally by: Nola Doyle
Contrary to what you may be told, you are not beholden to any imperial authority. You belong to an elite community at the cutting edge of humanity in technological progress, with an extensive array of military and scientific tools at your fingertips. Governments and corporations alike seek your service in exchange for financial reimbursement; this is business, not nationalism, sir.

Please do not forget that your loyalty lies with yourself and your species, and you owe both more than nationalistic pride can offer.


Exceptionally well said Dr. Doyle. May I quote that?

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:45:00 - [6]
 

I insist.

Markius TheShed
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:56:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Markius TheShed on 19/07/2011 09:00:35
Thank you Miss Oniseki for proving my point that the Caldari only care about Isk.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.19 11:31:00 - [8]
 

Who to serve? Why not have others serve you?


Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.19 12:06:00 - [9]
 

In any case, I'm fairly certain service in the TLF is pretty much out of the question. The Murientors and Electus Matari are both highly respected. We all know it's far easier to make an impression than to erase it, and I didn't stop to think before speaking my mind that (of course) those who would be my superiors would see it. Neither 'Bosboger the race-traitor' or 'Second-thought Adeli' really have the ring I was hoping for.

Originally by: Nola Doyle
Contrary to what you may be told, you are not beholden to any imperial authority. You belong to an elite community at the cutting edge of humanity in technological progress, with an extensive array of military and scientific tools at your fingertips. Governments and corporations alike seek your service in exchange for financial reimbursement; this is business, not nationalism, sir.

Please do not forget that your loyalty lies with yourself and your species, and you owe both more than nationalistic pride can offer.


Well said, but none of us were capsuleers before we were capsuleers, If you get me. Our parent nations made us who we are.

But having said that, in my mind my choice seems to be either to stand alongside slavers or to stand alongside terrorists. Perhaps - given these choices - you have the right idea. Not one of ours are really innocent in all of this.

Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.19 12:09:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Who to serve? Why not have others serve you?




Responsibility and I have never really been best friends.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.07.19 12:21:00 - [11]
 

A few points of clarification for you, if you will.

First, not every Amarrian vessel is crewed by Vitoc poisoned slaves. (That is not to deny that some are, just not all of them.)

Second, it is quite apparent that you care for your people (that being the Matari) and even if you have some doubts regarding the morality of fighting alongside them, abandoning them certainly won't help them.

As ironic as it may sound, I would have to agree with Captain Del'thul. I know that if I were a drone in service to another due to poisoning, brainwashing or mind control, I would rather mercy come swiftly in death than to continue existing in that state.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.19 12:44:00 - [12]
 

If you are looking for a job completely devoid of moral conflict and with minimal responsibility, I have a position in Rens opening up for a part time ice cream server. Interested?


Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.19 12:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
If you are looking for a job completely devoid of moral conflict and with minimal responsibility, I have a position in Rens opening up for a part time ice cream server. Interested?




I meant responsibility for other people. However, I always did like ice cream.

Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.19 13:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
A few points of clarification for you, if you will.

First, not every Amarrian vessel is crewed by Vitoc poisoned slaves. (That is not to deny that some are, just not all of them.)

Second, it is quite apparent that you care for your people (that being the Matari) and even if you have some doubts regarding the morality of fighting alongside them, abandoning them certainly won't help them.

As ironic as it may sound, I would have to agree with Captain Del'thul. I know that if I were a drone in service to another due to poisoning, brainwashing or mind control, I would rather mercy come swiftly in death than to continue existing in that state.


This is true, and they all made good points. Technically the Sansha (whose ships I've shot down with nary a thought) are humans on the same level as those who crew Amarrian ships, Likely never even knew humanity in the first place.

But like I said earlier, I'm doubtful the TLF (or any militia) take too kindly to those whose true allegiances they have reason to doubt.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.07.19 13:17:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Adeli Bosboger

But like I said earlier, I'm doubtful the TLF (or any militia) take too kindly to those whose true allegiances they have reason to doubt.


If your loyalty is to your people, then I believe your service could make that clear.

Markius TheShed
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.19 13:22:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Adeli Bosboger


But like I said earlier, I'm doubtful the TLF (or any militia) take too kindly to those whose true allegiances they have reason to doubt.


All the militias have their fair share of Spies, Pirates, Mission Farmers and Griefers your presence won't make a ripple in their pond.

As long as you are killing your militias enemies no one cares.

Victoria Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:04:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Victoria Valadeus on 19/07/2011 14:10:45
Originally by: Adeli Bosboger
Originally by: Raze Valadeus
A few points of clarification for you, if you will.

First, not every Amarrian vessel is crewed by Vitoc poisoned slaves. (That is not to deny that some are, just not all of them.)

Second, it is quite apparent that you care for your people (that being the Matari) and even if you have some doubts regarding the morality of fighting alongside them, abandoning them certainly won't help them.

As ironic as it may sound, I would have to agree with Captain Del'thul. I know that if I were a drone in service to another due to poisoning, brainwashing or mind control, I would rather mercy come swiftly in death than to continue existing in that state.


This is true, and they all made good points. Technically the Sansha (whose ships I've shot down with nary a thought) are humans on the same level as those who crew Amarrian ships, Likely never even knew humanity in the first place.

But like I said earlier, I'm doubtful the TLF (or any militia) take too kindly to those whose true allegiances they have reason to doubt.


Mr. Bosboger,

The 24th Imperial Crusade of the Empire is willing to accept the services of such liberal heretics as the Valadeus', and if the reports from my Matari friends are to be trusted (and I earnestly believe they are) I promise you that the Empire is far less forgiving of dissension and original thought than the Tribal Liberation Force or the Republic as a whole. I do not believe you have anything to fear from the TLF except perhaps upturned noses. I have some good friends in Gradient, a corp under the Electus Matari, that might be interested in having you, but I should note that the EM is not technically part of the militia, as alliances are not permitted to join militias as the Emergency Militia War Powers Act stipulates. However, they may instead be able to help you find a home in a corporation that is a member of the TLF, as they are often in close communications.

With that said, however, if you should still have reservations about shooting at the Amarr for whatever reason, (and I would be among your wartargets if you did) I believe you would find fighting the Sansha threat to be a worthwhile endeavor, and far less likely to keep you up at night wondering if you're doing the right thing, as I believe is your concern. If this option appeals to you, I recommend contacting recruitment officers for the Synose Accord and, if you should have a mind for speculative wormhole research, joining the mailing list "Arek'jaalan"

Thank you, and best of luck
V. Valadeus

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.07.19 15:20:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Adeli Bosboger
At this point in time, I am close to completing my training with the Republic Military School, and will soon have my entry into the Tribal Liberation Force. I owe my capsuleer training to the School and the Republic, and servitude with the TLF seems only right. But at the same time, it doesn't.

My qualm with meeting the Amarr in the field doesn't lie with the fact that I'm afraid of combat, or think I'll feel any remorse killing those weak-minded backbirths. It's that any Amarrian vessel I will engage from cruiser-sized upwards will have slave complements in her crew. It's simply naive to deny it. And if freeing any number of my brothers means ending the life of another, that's an 'honour' I'm not in any hurry to receive.

To cut a long story short, my mind is swaying toward defection to the Caldari State. They uphold a culture of honour, duty and respect, as does my homeland. They hold no slaves, and no imaginary being steers their affairs. And most importantly, if there's one thing that boils this Matari's blood to the same degree as institutionalised religion and slavery, it's terrorism. I don't want to stand next to slavers, but if serving the Republic means holding the hand of a nation which glorifies suicide attacks on civilians, I have to consider where that puts me.

Well, I guess that's it. So where to from here?


Please contact me. I would be willing to assist you.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.07.19 15:30:00 - [19]
 

Adeli,

While I am not involved in the fight between the Minmatar and the Amarr, I do know someone who can help you make your decision.

Contact Michael Bross, he is a good, respectable man who made his choice and can help you make yours.


Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.19 18:10:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Ugleb on 19/07/2011 18:10:31
Originally by: Adeli Bosboger
At this point in time, I am close to completing my training with the Republic Military School, and will soon have my entry into the Tribal Liberation Force. I owe my capsuleer training to the School and the Republic, and servitude with the TLF seems only right. But at the same time, it doesn't.

My qualm with meeting the Amarr in the field doesn't lie with the fact that I'm afraid of combat, or think I'll feel any remorse killing those weak-minded backbirths. It's that any Amarrian vessel I will engage from cruiser-sized upwards will have slave complements in her crew. It's simply naive to deny it. And if freeing any number of my brothers means ending the life of another, that's an 'honour' I'm not in any hurry to receive.

To cut a long story short, my mind is swaying toward defection to the Caldari State. They uphold a culture of honour, duty and respect, as does my homeland. They hold no slaves, and no imaginary being steers their affairs. And most importantly, if there's one thing that boils this Matari's blood to the same degree as institutionalised religion and slavery, it's terrorism. I don't want to stand next to slavers, but if serving the Republic means holding the hand of a nation which glorifies suicide attacks on civilians, I have to consider where that puts me.

Well, I guess that's it. So where to from here?


You do your Clan and Tribe a disservice. I find your hesitance...un-Minmatar. Mizhara is right. If we back down from the Amarr using our brethren as human shields against us just once then every ship from then on will be packed with slaves. We did not win our freedom by backing down and we shall not keep it long if we start now. To protect your kin, you must be prepared to pull the trigger. Show weakness and they shall exploit it.

Your choice in aiding the Caldari is dubious. Would you serve in their militia? Against the Gallente? Do you have any idea how many ex patriot Minmatar live on their worlds? You balk at firing on an Amarrian warship that might have a slave onboard, what of a Gallente vessel that might have a young Federation-born Minmatar serving amongst its crew?

Do not do your people a second disservice. Choose wisely.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.07.19 18:25:00 - [21]
 

A successful capsuleer serves in this order:

1. First, serve yourself.
2. Second, serve your corporation.
3. Thirdly, serve those to whom your corporation pays loyalty.

When interests conflict, choose the side that is highest in the heirarchy. Aim to minimise conflicts of interest.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.07.19 20:57:00 - [22]
 

You are far from the first person to ever suffer such doubts. I do all the time; to kill my kin, while fighting those who hold them, to provide fuel for the arguments of Amarrian conservative, racist nationalists, is it an acceptable trade for fighting to free them in the long run?

Only you can answer this question. While I would rather die than ever return to the "loving embrace" offered by the Empire, I cannot speak for every Matari in bondage.

The empire knows full well the psychological effect that its use of slaves as crew has on us. Whether you allow them to exploit that, or you fight on anyway, is up to you.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.19 22:13:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Adeli Bosboger
To cut a long story short, my mind is swaying toward defection to the Caldari State. They uphold a culture of honour, duty and respect, as does my homeland. They hold no slaves, and no imaginary being steers their affairs. And most importantly, if there's one thing that boils this Matari's blood to the same degree as institutionalised religion and slavery, it's terrorism. I don't want to stand next to slavers, but if serving the Republic means holding the hand of a nation which glorifies suicide attacks on civilians, I have to consider where that puts me.


Many capsuleers join State Protectorate only because it pays well. Unlike them, you are looking for something greater. I think you can become the real citizen of the State even without being born as Caldari.

You know, what's the main difference between Caldari and Gallente? For Caldari "We" stands before "I", while Gallente prefer to put their personal interests in the first place. And even worse, they are trying to settle their egocentric ideals to other minds by all the means necessary. Unfortunately, this plague of gallentish libertinism affected your tribes too.

I see how you feel to your enslaved brethren. Feel the same to those who work with you, and you will understand our corporations. That's how tribes meant to be organized too, and that's what you should fight for. But your people are obsessed with freedom and slavery too much. Slavery is just inefficient management scheme, many amarrians understand it, and even Empress herself made first step to reforming it. And the freedom... freedom is just a void. Do not let it consume your soul.

I know what are you going to say about freedom, and I understand you, your people were slaves. You should 'cure' this former-slave syndrome and start new life, without this horror. Unlike pilots from TLF, State fights not for the past, but for the future.

After all, it's only your choice, for whom and what for you will be fighting. And should you join the State, fight with honor, and fight for glory. And let spirits of your ancestors be proud of you.

Zagamesh
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2011.07.19 23:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Markius TheShed
Edited by: Markius TheShed on 19/07/2011 09:00:35
Thank you Miss Oniseki for proving my point that the Caldari only care about Isk.


You know, when as a capsuleer you're a participant in a CONCORD regulated war economy that directly benefits the member empires and in which human life is one of the cheapest commodities available in our business of violence, death and destruction in New Eden it really does seem quaint to to paint only the Caldari State as caring only for ISK.

Everyone appears to have blood on their hands so I think it's hard to propagandize on that tangent if you're even half-serious about things like, you know, moral equivalency.

Feel free however to tell the wider community about how only the Federation and Republic run orphanages for abandoned kittens or something.

No, seriously.

Richard Wensbane
Caldari
OdaTech
Posted - 2011.07.19 23:32:00 - [25]
 

Mr. Bosboger, while I would be more than happy to see you fight for the benefit of the State, I would like to remind you that - unlike what some around here like to "preach" - not all Caldari think alike. It would be wrong to hold us all to the same standards.

There are various corporate philosophies within the State, each with its own intricacies, and you would be expected to behave according to the positions set by the corporation you work for - although, as a capsuleer, you would probably have a little more room to "maneuver".

As an example, should you "enter the fray" by joining a subsidiary of the Hyasyoda megacorporation, you would be expected to adopt and defend their somewhat liberal views.
Should you join a member of the "Practical Bloc", however, morality would cease to be an issue.

Just something to keep in mind before you decide to join the corporate ladder.

Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.20 02:11:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim

I know what are you going to say about freedom, and I understand you, your people were slaves. You should 'cure' this former-slave syndrome and start new life, without this horror. Unlike pilots from TLF, State fights not for the past, but for the future..


Hey now - I was never a slave, and I never took part in any rebellions. I was born (as most of us were) about seventy to eighty years years after my forebears freed themselves. I'm a Sebeistor by genetics, but the fact that my caregivers named me after a location rather than a line or a house may speak something to the closeness of my family ties. With that being said, I was still born and raised in the Republic. What does it make me if I'm not to give something back?

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
A successful capsuleer serves in this order:

1. First, serve yourself.
2. Second, serve your corporation.
3. Thirdly, serve those to whom your corporation pays loyalty.

When interests conflict, choose the side that is highest in the heirarchy. Aim to minimise conflicts of interest.


However, this also makes sense. No one is innocent in the scheme of things. My people suffered terrible injustice 700 years ago, and the Caldari suffered terrible injustice far more recently. And don't throw numbers at me, by the way - I'm not one to quantify suffering. Perhaps my problem is that I've been unable to afford any group toted as the 'good guys' any great amount of respect.

Originally by: Diana Kim
For Caldari "We" stands before "I", while Gallente prefer to put their personal interests in the first place. And even worse, they are trying to settle their egocentric ideals to other minds by all the means necessary.


And there's where the crux of it lies, really. In my mind both the Republic and the State hold the 'we' attitude. But a nation based on opportunity is always going to be more attractive than one based on hatred and past wrongings.

Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.20 02:19:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Vikarion

Please contact me. I would be willing to assist you.


I will as soon as I am able to do so. Before long, hopefully.

Adeli Bosboger
Posted - 2011.07.20 09:44:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ugleb
Do you have any idea how many ex patriot Minmatar live on their worlds? You balk at firing on an Amarrian warship that might have a slave onboard, what of a Gallente vessel that might have a young Federation-born Minmatar serving amongst its crew?


With all due respect, sir, Those Minmatar who chose to live in the Federation did exactly that - chose. And any Minmatar serving in the Federal Navy knew what he was getting himself into. The same luxury wasn't present to our brothers under the Amarrian jackboot.

I'm not saying it would be right, of course. Just that a stark difference exists.

Kerron Dex Ormand
Posted - 2011.07.20 18:16:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Kerron Dex Ormand on 20/07/2011 19:47:58
hey more power to you

Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.20 21:48:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
I see how you feel to your enslaved brethren. Feel the same to those who work with you, and you will understand our corporations. That's how tribes meant to be organized too, and that's what you should fight for. But your people are obsessed with freedom and slavery too much. Slavery is just inefficient management scheme, many amarrians understand it, and even Empress herself made first step to reforming it. And the freedom... freedom is just a void. Do not let it consume your soul.


Sarum made savvy political move, not one born out of humanitarian interest or a desire for reform. She released that part of the slave population furthest removed from its Minmatar heritage, only those from families that had lived out generation upon generation knowing nothing but life under the Amarr.

At a time when the free Minmatar were prepared to take a large step forwards in restoring our own cultural identity, Sarum released thousands of Amarrian evangelists back into the Republic, sowing confusion and noise everywhere. It was a masterful move, reinforcing her image as benign saviour of Amarr with one hand while casting another wave of disruption towards her enemies.


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