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Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:31:00 - [1]
 

Being comparatively new to the forum, I have not been able to find any references to a body to represent the interests of people living in hisec. Having read both the minutes of the CSM/CCP meetings in May and also a number of posts to Jita Park I am concerned that 0.0 maybe making a move to shift the balance of EVE to favour lowsec in mining, invention and so on. A Couple of threads Here and Here seem to show a campaign aiming to convince CCP that the proposals coming from the CSM have the full support of all sections of the game. I feel that this is to promote the interests of the corps and alliances in 0.0 at the expense of the other areas of the game. Some other posters have suggested that a forum should be opened to allow hisec residents to coordinate their responses and ultimately to put forward candidates for the next CSM so as to safeguard the interests of hisec. I agree and would like to hear from others interested in setting up such a forum, if there is not somewhere already for this purpose.

I should say that personally I have no interest in standing as a candidate in any future election, the NDA insisted on by CCP makes this impossible as I have an aversion to gagging clauses of any kind.

Oooooh Aaaaah
Posted - 2011.07.18 13:25:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Oooooh Aaaaah on 18/07/2011 13:25:04
Originally by: Cedille Mureau
A Couple of threads Here and Here seem to show a campaign aiming to convince CCP that the proposals coming from the CSM have the full support of all sections of the game.


I fail to see where any of the threads you're linking says anything you claim them to. The first is some guy expressing his gratitude towards the CSM for going to iceland on short notice, discussing the latest PR fiasco concerning virtual goods and force-feeding players CQ. It is entirely unrelated to any null/highsec issues which weren't even talked about at that particular emergency summit.
The second one is proposing more work on highsec because the majority of characters is located in highsec, which is the exact opposite of what you claim it to say...

Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.18 16:49:00 - [3]
 

O.K. Thanks for the feedback.

Let me see if I can make things a litle clearer.

The first post, on first glance, has nothing to do with the moves to enhance the opportunies for 0.0. It's a peaen of praise for the CSM.
The reason I highlighted it was because the OP has a very short employment history yet seems to have knowledge of the timescales involved
in the meetings, something I was not aware of, and I have been following the election and so on quite closely.
The second poster also has a short employment history but again seems to know a lot about the benefits and disadvantages of 0.0 versus hisec.

I'm not the only one to notice the short history of the first poster by the way.
To me, the fact there have been two posts both supporting, in different ways, the stance of CSM seems to be curious, I'll not put it any stronger than that.

What I'm trying to point out is that there *seems* to be some sort of effort to boost the standing of the proposals about giving 0.0 advantages not shared with other sectors
and that the posting of two supportive posts by characters with short histories, who should be less informed than more long-standing players, is an anomaly. It smacks of "astro-turfing" to me.
It could be that I have not been paying close enough attention to the CSM and its schedule etc. or it could be that old age and paranoia are taking their toll.

What I feel is more important is that hisec should try and organise a mechanism to ensure that the residents are sufficiently represented so as not to be unduly disadvantaged in any changes mooted for the future.

Oooooh Aaaaah
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:40:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Oooooh Aaaaah on 18/07/2011 19:01:12
I see - so regarding the second thread, you're not referring to the OP but some other guy in the thread.

I wouldn't pay any attention to character age on Eve-O forum postings, as most people use disposable alts to do that (I think this character only has a couple of months on her back without ever being in any corp - it's an untrained scouting alt I have on one of my accounts and I biomass those frequently to avoid anyone associating her arrival with that of my other character ;)).

I still fail to see how the first post relates to anything with highsec/nullsec priorities, as he thanks the CSM for discussing the MT issue in an emergency meeting. Again: High/nullsec balance was not discussed there (in case you think he refers to the recently released transcripts in which those matters indeed were discussed - those were from the regular may meeting, not the emergency july meeting the OP is talking about).

Edit: Ah - I think I've found who you meant - the guy has a point imho: CCP designed the game with a certain progression in mind - i.e. learning to walk in a safe playpen (Highsec) and then, once the character/player has grown up, made some isk and can look after his own security without calling for mommy (concord), he moves on to null/lowsec, where he occasionally flies bigger ships than he could in highsec, makes more money and so on.

The problem is not CCP/the CSM not caring about the people in highsec - new player experience is constantly iterated on and has seen the latest iteration with the improved tutorials provided through CQ and Aura.
The problem is that the playpen is too comfortable compared to 'finding an own apartment', like one should normally do eventually, which is why we ended in the current state with grown up, rich characters still sitting in highsec like 40 year olds still sleeping in cradles (mission hubs) and being breastfed (l4 missions).

So I'd agree with him that the best way to make the game more interesting and less repetitive for highsec players is to create more incentives for them to finally move out into the real world (0.0).

D'Leh Mannuck
Posted - 2011.07.18 19:54:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah
Lot of typical 0.0 bullcrap


I think you are the one who has to grow up and realise that 0.0 isn't and never will be the ultimate goal for all players.
A lot of people don't have fun playing the big lag battles where it takes 10 minutes to lock a target and then you MAYBE can get a shot off.
A lot of people don't have fun flying in pure gank fits to shoot easy targets and then roflmao them.
A lot of people stay in high sec because why would they let the null sec carebears dictate their gameplay?

Instead half of null sec is napping eachother and in return the other half naps themselves too. And then the tears come because all of a sudden there are only a few frontlines.
Socalled hardcore PvPers crying they don't get enough targets to shoot at and blaming the high sec players for not comming to null sec.

If the socalled hardcore PvP=ers want to PvP so passionatly I am sure they can get all the PvP they want in 0.0.

Ow wait they can't. Half is blue and the other half is too far away or god forbid, they might be able to kick your l33t arse back to the crib.

Want 0.0 less stagnant? Make blue list a very short list so only like max 1 or 2 alliances can get set blue.
Max 5 corporation.

Red setting not possible cause that would make it too easy to see who's really neutral and who is only neutral due to not being in the blue setting.

But heck, that wont happen cause then 0.0 would really become a dangerous place to live at and you would have to do more than blaming people who don't give a rats arse about your playstyle for not following it.

Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.18 21:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah

So I'd agree with him that the best way to make the game more interesting and less repetitive for highsec players is to create more incentives for them to finally move out into the real world (0.0).


Nooooo! "Move out into the real world 0.0" This is exactly my point, I'm a carebear and not ashamed to admit it. I DON'T want to move to 0.0. I play EVE to relax, my real life is stressful enough. So I invent a little, run missions, have some PI etc. etc. I don't need any more adrenalin rushes from PvP or have to keep looking over my shoulder to see what's behind me, nor do I want to be a "Master of the Universe"tm. I want to be allowed to play as I want to and not as some mega-corps/alliance or CCP think I should. My money is accepted by CCP as readily as the blackest pirate or CEO of a huge alliance. If you want to build an empire complete with Titans, Stations etc. be my guest but please allow me to play EVE in a way that suits me. To do otherwise is to infringe on the equal rights I have to enjoy playing a game that so many people love and have invested so much time and money in.

Oooooh Aaaaah
Posted - 2011.07.18 21:38:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Oooooh Aaaaah on 18/07/2011 21:53:44
Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck
Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah
Lot of typical 0.0 bullcrap



A lot of... Nah - I wont get down to you level....




Despite your rather emotional inflammatory post, I'll give a serious answer.

I don't even have a single character in a sovholding alliance.

Guess what - I don't enjoy flying around like a drone once a year, clicking a broadcast in my fleet window and hitting F1 either, because I for one don't consider that to be pvp.

There's NPC 0.0, wormhole 0.0, Lowsec - all without blobwarfare, structure-grind, napfests and all that.

I also agree that sov 0.0 people are for the most part the biggest carebears of them all. Actually, that's the fascinating thing: The carebears still not moving to sov 0.0, despite it being just as safe for a carebear not interested in pvp as highsec - as the guy in the other thread said: The biggest 0.0 entity until recently consisted of 50k carebears with no interest to pvp ever and they did fine for quite some time. These guys wouldn't leave their sanctums eben whilst their space-empire was crumbling.

Hell - haven't been there in a while, but getting ganked in motsu in a tengu is more likely than getting killed in some pocket in sov 0.0 with a bubble camped entry.

So what exactly is your point?

Are you complaining there's not enough pvp in sov 0.0, so you stay in highsec because you get more pvp with empire wardecs?
Good for you - don't go there.


Are you not interested in pvp at all, but miss 'higher level content' in Highsec?
Join an alliance and go to carebear sov 0.0 for high level carebearing or go to a wormhole for a little more adventure.

Are you interested in pvp but are annoyed with wartargets hiding in stations all day long in high?
Go to NPC 0.0/lowsec.

Actually, this intrigues me - what do you people expect CCP to do with highsec? More varied background stories for the red crosses you shoot at in your officer fit golems?

Oooooh Aaaaah
Posted - 2011.07.18 21:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Cedille Mureau
Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah

So I'd agree with him that the best way to make the game more interesting and less repetitive for highsec players is to create more incentives for them to finally move out into the real world (0.0).


Nooooo! "Move out into the real world 0.0" This is exactly my point, I'm a carebear and not ashamed to admit it. I DON'T want to move to 0.0. I play EVE to relax, my real life is stressful enough. So I invent a little, run missions, have some PI etc. etc. I don't need any more adrenalin rushes from PvP or have to keep looking over my shoulder to see what's behind me, nor do I want to be a "Master of the Universe"tm. I want to be allowed to play as I want to and not as some mega-corps/alliance or CCP think I should. My money is accepted by CCP as readily as the blackest pirate or CEO of a huge alliance. If you want to build an empire complete with Titans, Stations etc. be my guest but please allow me to play EVE in a way that suits me. To do otherwise is to infringe on the equal rights I have to enjoy playing a game that so many people love and have invested so much time and money in.


Well - that's an honest answer - and it's in your best right to play as you wish, but the same question as to the above poster applies: What do you want added to highsec then?

(Besides Sov 0.0 not being the murderous, harsh place where you live in constant paranoia - it's carebear heaven where you can grow your own complexes, which you can then run in a supercarrier if you wish, with a few entry points 20 jumps away from your location which are bubble-camped by a bunch of wannabe-pvpers in your alliance. If yomething slips through, they'll warn you in your intel channel, giving you plenty of time to safe up even if you were afk at the time...).

Also, I'm really just wondering: What do you people make all these isk for if you don't intend to do anything that could put something at risk. One day (or maybe you already do) you have your fully officer fitted machariel in which you can run an AE in 10 minutes and an additional 100 bill isk on your account. And then what?
If you never put anything at risk, you don't need isk to replace it obviously, so why are you still generating them?

Franz Zjivago
Posted - 2011.07.19 03:27:00 - [9]
 

Could someone explain why wets are so anoyed with HighSec carebears?

Is it so gratifying to kill newbs so you cant wait for us to come to lowsec or 0.0

for me it sounds like UFC champions who only wants to go against untrained foes, ehh cause you know we (atm) dont stand a chance :)

for a new player low sec is just GANKland, you will run in to GANKgangs in their T2 (or better) fitts and whatever you bring as a new player you dont stand a chance.

So that means that if you want some quality game time as a casual player, HighSec it is cause otherwise you will spend 3-4 hours looking at your pod, and that to me is what wets is trying to sell to new players as the "real eve" :p

Van Derka
Posted - 2011.07.19 05:20:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Van Derka on 19/07/2011 12:34:30
I think CCP did a good job of encouraging us to vote last round.
CCP could create electorates so that % of players are represented.
No reason why CCP couldn't directly contact players to be representatives based on a few algorithms.




Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.19 09:32:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Cedille Mureau on 19/07/2011 09:33:23
Edited by: Cedille Mureau on 19/07/2011 09:33:05
Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah
Well - that's an honest answer - and it's in your best right to play as you wish, but the same question as to the above poster applies: What do you want added to highsec then?

Also, I'm really just wondering: What do you people make all these isk for if you don't intend to do anything that could put something at risk. One day (or maybe you already do) you have your fully officer fitted machariel in which you can run an AE in 10 minutes and an additional 100 bill isk on your account. And then what?
If you never put anything at risk, you don't need isk to replace it obviously, so why are you still generating them?


To answer your first point, nothing, or at least nothing to the disadvantage of other sectors of the game. What I'm really going on about is what I perceive to be a move by certain parties in the CSM to give 0.0 an unfair advantage over the rest of us and trying to get some kind of mechanism together to ensure that the likes of Goonswarm do not dominate CSM and skew the game for their benefit. Hisec is notoriously hard to get a consensus in, in part I think, because of all the new players but also because it has people like me, who want to go their own way in small corps, run by themselves and not as a part of a mega alliance dancing to the tune of the senior members. Remember BoB?

On your second point, my alts have never made more that ISK 300 million between them. The two senior ones do have over 50 million SP between them though. That's why I play, to develop my characters, to find out how to do different things and to explore how far I can go with the skills I have. I lose ships and other stuff, especially drones and let me tell you a T2 heavy drone costs a fair bit to replace. So it's not all risk free; but that is my point, I play to relax, not be the next Napoleon or Bill Gates. EVE for all its virtues is after all only a game.

What seems to be getting lost in all this is my main reason for starting this thread. To try and see if we can organise some sort of action to stop anyone biassing the game in their favour. I would welcome anyone interested in setting up such a mechanism to contact me ingame and I'll try and set something up.

Oooooh Aaaaah
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:28:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Oooooh Aaaaah on 19/07/2011 14:29:34
@Franz: I (personally) am not annoyed with highsec carebears, nor do I have an interest in ganking noobs or getting them into nullsec - it's the old players living in highsec.
There seems to be a problem from a game design-perspective. CCP had a natural progression in mind - of course you can go to 0.0 when you're 2 hours old, but taking a pve/pvp career as an example for the majority, it's learning to fly lvl 4 in a BS, do that for a while, make enough money so a BS loss doesn't hurt you anymore, get bored of it and then move on to 'higher level content'.
And there's the 'problem' (I don't really have a problem with that as long they don't complain about the lack of higher level content when it's in front of their noses and called 0.0) - some never make that transition and that's probably because high sec is too comfortable for them compared to nullsec. Obviously, this needs changing - similar to EAF's - if a frigate is flown by even less people than titans or black ops, there must be something wrong with it compared to all the other ships. If a majority of players never moves out of highsec, there must be something wrong with lowsec/0.0.

@Cedille: I don't particulary like the 0.0 sov alliances, but currently, the unfair advantage is on highsecs side.
These people conquered their space empires (well - except Goonswarm who had their space donated), they build an infrastructure, pay sovbills and occasionally defend it. However, they are limited to 1 (expensive) outpost/system, hence have a limited supply of inventionslots and so on, they don't even have access to lots of necessary ressources (datacores) - basically everything in 0.0 industry is at such a large disadvantage, everything is imported from highsec.

Compare that to highsec: no sovbills, no teamplay, no investment, no buildup, no risk and effort required, ~10 free Stations/System full of production/inventionslots.
People moving to sov 0.0 must be either really craving for that endgame content or plain dumb (well - unless you have a techmoon ;)).

If you want to stick to yourself, that's perfectly fine, but eve is an MMO and should reward teamplay, effort and risk. That's fair.


Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.19 15:41:00 - [13]
 

@Oooooh Aaaaah.

It's becoming obvious that I am not making myself clear.
I don't want to stop anyone doing whatever they like in EVE. What does concern me is the apparent attempts to skew things to favour those sections of the playerbase that are in 0.0

I've been playing EVE for over 5 years now and although cursed with a limited attention span and even worse memory I can't ever recall see CCP stating that the idea of hisec is to prepare new players for the excitement and rewards of 0.0 and nothing else.

As for the hardships of living in 0.0 I read in another post (can't locate it at the moment) someone saying that a lot of 0.0 residents also have an alt in hisec for just those logistical things i.e. manufacturing, invention, research and so on, so I fail to see that 0.0 are disadvantaged if, as you say, hisec is disproportionately advantaged over other sectors of EVE. They enjoy the perks of hisec just like the rest of us. What is causing a bit of a stink is the perception that certain elements in the CSM want to boost 0.0 at the expense of the rest of EVE.

I won't be posting on this thread again as I want to make a start in setting up some kind of organisation to counter what I see as the undue influence of 0.0 on the CSM and to democratically do something about it. I will be watching this thread though, to see if anyone has thoughts on where hisec should go next on this topic.

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2011.07.19 18:19:00 - [14]
 

There were a number of candidates that ran for the last election that would have tried to create a more balanced focus in the CSM. Sadly none of us that would have provided a high sec point of view were elected. Until the general Eve population takes an active interest in the CSM elections you can expect the CSM to be just the large powerblocks that can get their minions to vote.

I hope some day the majority of Eve players (casual PvE types often derided as care bears) will realize the CSM is a real force in the future of Eve and they will actually get someone that would share their views of how Eve should evolve elected.

Preferable someone that wouldn't get removed for NDA breaches and that doesn't throw sporks when angered. :-)

Issler
Two time CSM member
Voice of Reason Candidate

Kevric
Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.19 18:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah
Edited by: Oooooh Aaaaah on 19/07/2011 14:29:34
@Franz: I (personally) am not annoyed with highsec carebears, nor do I have an interest in ganking noobs or getting them into nullsec - it's the old players living in highsec.
There seems to be a problem from a game design-perspective. CCP had a natural progression in mind - of course you can go to 0.0 when you're 2 hours old, but taking a pve/pvp career as an example for the majority, it's learning to fly lvl 4 in a BS, do that for a while, make enough money so a BS loss doesn't hurt you anymore, get bored of it and then move on to 'higher level content'.
And there's the 'problem' (I don't really have a problem with that as long they don't complain about the lack of higher level content when it's in front of their noses and called 0.0) - some never make that transition and that's probably because high sec is too comfortable for them compared to nullsec. Obviously, this needs changing - similar to EAF's - if a frigate is flown by even less people than titans or black ops, there must be something wrong with it compared to all the other ships. If a majority of players never moves out of highsec, there must be something wrong with lowsec/0.0.

@Cedille: I don't particulary like the 0.0 sov alliances, but currently, the unfair advantage is on highsecs side.
These people conquered their space empires (well - except Goonswarm who had their space donated), they build an infrastructure, pay sovbills and occasionally defend it. However, they are limited to 1 (expensive) outpost/system, hence have a limited supply of inventionslots and so on, they don't even have access to lots of necessary ressources (datacores) - basically everything in 0.0 industry is at such a large disadvantage, everything is imported from highsec.

Compare that to highsec: no sovbills, no teamplay, no investment, no buildup, no risk and effort required, ~10 free Stations/System full of production/inventionslots.
People moving to sov 0.0 must be either really craving for that endgame content or plain dumb (well - unless you have a techmoon ;)).

If you want to stick to yourself, that's perfectly fine, but eve is an MMO and should reward teamplay, effort and risk. That's fair.




I've played in hisec and in 0.0. Why would I want to stay in 0.0? Making it easier for people like Mittani or Vuk Lau to cash in on RMT's is not my idea of "higher level content."

Just sayin'.

Kevric
Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.19 18:44:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah
Originally by: Cedille Mureau
Originally by: Oooooh Aaaaah

So I'd agree with him that the best way to make the game more interesting and less repetitive for highsec players is to create more incentives for them to finally move out into the real world (0.0).


Nooooo! "Move out into the real world 0.0" This is exactly my point, I'm a carebear and not ashamed to admit it. I DON'T want to move to 0.0. I play EVE to relax, my real life is stressful enough. So I invent a little, run missions, have some PI etc. etc. I don't need any more adrenalin rushes from PvP or have to keep looking over my shoulder to see what's behind me, nor do I want to be a "Master of the Universe"tm. I want to be allowed to play as I want to and not as some mega-corps/alliance or CCP think I should. My money is accepted by CCP as readily as the blackest pirate or CEO of a huge alliance. If you want to build an empire complete with Titans, Stations etc. be my guest but please allow me to play EVE in a way that suits me. To do otherwise is to infringe on the equal rights I have to enjoy playing a game that so many people love and have invested so much time and money in.


Well - that's an honest answer - and it's in your best right to play as you wish, but the same question as to the above poster applies: What do you want added to highsec then?

(Besides Sov 0.0 not being the murderous, harsh place where you live in constant paranoia - it's carebear heaven where you can grow your own complexes, which you can then run in a supercarrier if you wish, with a few entry points 20 jumps away from your location which are bubble-camped by a bunch of wannabe-pvpers in your alliance. If yomething slips through, they'll warn you in your intel channel, giving you plenty of time to safe up even if you were afk at the time...).

Also, I'm really just wondering: What do you people make all these isk for if you don't intend to do anything that could put something at risk. One day (or maybe you already do) you have your fully officer fitted machariel in which you can run an AE in 10 minutes and an additional 100 bill isk on your account. And then what?
If you never put anything at risk, you don't need isk to replace it obviously, so why are you still generating them?


For some people isk=points. Why should you be caring what they do or do not spend them on? Maybe they just like the idea of racking them up.

Steph Wing
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.19 19:15:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Cedille Mureau

As for the hardships of living in 0.0 I read in another post (can't locate it at the moment) someone saying that a lot of 0.0 residents also have an alt in hisec for just those logistical things i.e. manufacturing, invention, research and so on, so I fail to see that 0.0 are disadvantaged if, as you say, hisec is disproportionately advantaged over other sectors of EVE. They enjoy the perks of hisec just like the rest of us.


Let me see if I've got this straight: Your arguing that hisec and nullsec are actually balanced against one another, and as evidence you cite that most nullsec players have alts in hisec to do the stuff there that they can't in 0.0.

Well damn son, why don't more hisec players have alts in nullsec then?

Quote:
What is causing a bit of a stink is the perception that certain elements in the CSM want to boost 0.0 at the expense of the rest of EVE.


Quit dancing around the bush and just come right out and say it. Here, I'll do it for you: "TheMittani is a big meany-head who wants to ruin the game for everybody because that's all Goons ever want to do."

Quote:
I won't be posting on this thread again as I want to make a start in setting up some kind of organisation to counter what I see as the undue influence of 0.0 on the CSM and to democratically do something about it. I will be watching this thread though, to see if anyone has thoughts on where hisec should go next on this topic.


"Hai guise, there's a problem here and I demand that it be fixed. Good luck coming up with a solution for me, I'll be over there."

Cedille Mureau
Gallente
Institute of Archaeology
Posted - 2011.07.19 20:24:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Steph Wing

"Hai guise, there's a problem here and I demand that it be fixed. Good luck coming up with a solution for me, I'll be over there."


Well thanks for making me post again, but as you seem to have nothing constructive to say, I'd better try and explain, again.

I'm not saying that 0.0 and hisec are in competition with each other, just that there appears to be an attempt to skew the game in favour of 0.0 This affects WHS as well. I can't say,never having been through a wormhole, yet, but reading posts from WHS residents it seems as if things are tough enough there already without taking away the resources that are available to them ABC ore for example.

The reason I said that I would not post on this thread again is that I want time to go and do something about a situation that seem to me to be in danger of upsetting the balance of the game.

If you take the time to read my posts you will see that I have no intention of going to 0.0. A good reason not to have an alt there, do you think?

You don't know me so stop trying to put words in my mouth. You might think that's what I mean, I couldn't possibly comment.

Now if there is nothing else, I'll get back to try setting up some kind of organisation to see if we can get some hisec representatives onto the next CSM.

Thank you

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.19 21:42:00 - [19]
 

I have 11 characters.
1 - in null sec.
3 - in low sec.
7 - in high sec.

Null sec players are almost forced to have multiple accounts with piles of characters in high sec. This throws off these statistics dramatically. Though I'm about 2/3 high sec, I would have no problem with CCP nerfing high sec into dust.

Steph Wing
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.20 00:13:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Cedille Mureau
Well thanks for making me post again..


I didn't make you do anything. You're an autonomous agent capable of free will and decision making. You chose to post. Gj btw.

Quote:
I'm not saying that 0.0 and hisec are in competition with each other, just that there appears to be an attempt to skew the game in favour of 0.0


The two halves of that statement are mutually incompatable. Either nullsec is in competition with hisec, or there's no danger of one being "skewed" (which seems to be your favorite word) over the other.

Quote:
If you take the time to read my posts you will see that I have no intention of going to 0.0. A good reason not to have an alt there, do you think?


A very good reason indeed. You've just made my case for me.

Quote:
Now if there is nothing else, I'll get back to try setting up some kind of organisation to see if we can get some hisec representatives onto the next CSM.

Thank you


Good luck with that. I expect you'll be posting again soon.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:26:00 - [21]
 

Short of a CCP implementing a method for players to join and form political parties, and even probably limiting them to a certain number I honestly can't see rallying the hisec players behind select candidates. Hisec players are by nature disjointed and spread out in all 'walks' of life no eve mail or chat can reach large segments of them like alliance mail can to direct them to vote or look at candidate X.

At best a dedicated group of players could feasibly form a 'party' out of game and promote it on the forums in game and with limited scope through a corp/alliance though that just presents a target. Such a dedicated 'team' could nominate, endorse and support select candidates that present a balanced view but are of course going to favor certain non gameplay breaking/nerfing positions. A model for some policies is the vote match site:

http://match.eve-csm.com/step_2.php

to at least provide a few issues in addition to those of late with which candidates could be measured against. The largest issue with and 'hisec' candidate or party is the universal disdain from 00, lowsec and the 'internet pirates' who see hisec as the thing they need to nerf/destroy into oblivion. Presenting a position that seeks to buff hisec or nerfs 00/low sec is destined to fail as many feel hisec is 'just right' or 'too right'. Looking to buff it will draw out the easily rallied 00/lowsec players and their alts to defeat anyone they see as potentially looking to nerf their precious 'pirate/grief' style of play. That's all assuming you can get enough disjointed independents together to even vote for their best interest for a candidate(s) who actually are worth voting for.

In short if electable hisec candidates are willing to not nerf that which they don't like but seek balance while still protecting hisec then an organization dedicated to getting out the vote might be able to help one or more get on the CSM with various methods, a channel, forums posts, blogs, events, etc.

At least until/if CCP ever allow or implement a 'party' type system to let players 'register' for a party and receive communication w/o being made obvious targets for griefing/war decs. It seems the best way to get the word out to vote or look at these candidates is a CCP implemented method that doesn't exist yet and likely won't exist ever.

Even then you face CCP who are in favor of players going to 00, because that is what they can sell EVE as 'build your empire' 'fight in huge battles' yada, yada, going off to do PVE or constructing a manufacturing empire is a nice line but lacks the art/video to draw people in. An entire CSM of hisec candidates would only be able to do so much in CCP's vision of pushing many more players into 00, and they indeed have said hisec is 'supposed' to be 'temporary' on your way out to 00 etc.



Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:32:00 - [22]
 

Agree with OP, but in a literal sense we need another Forum, A separate forum. What goes on in high sec is the meat and potatoes of this game. We shouldn't even have to talk to those people. Those people are annoying and mess with my relaxation time. Those people are just awful. I don't know whats wrong with those people. Its like their fingers are attached to their butt that they speak out of. Yes those people should be in a different game, a whole different server even. Banish them to singularity. Give those people Singularity forum. Since isk flows like water for them, playing with 100 isk ships out to be like being on a level playing field for those people. Those people could maybe even get monocles for 100 isk. We could also ask for forum features to filter out those people. Those people just make noise. They are like children with a new bell. Maybe null sec should be the children's section.

Gaylord Buttafuko
Posted - 2011.07.23 00:03:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Tuggboat
. Its like their fingers are attached to their butt


Super post!

Hi I live in highsec too (i only play for icarna). Can we attach our fingers to each others butts in the future?

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 10:38:00 - [24]
 

But dude, your lips are so real they belong in null sec

Jaxon Grylls
Posted - 2011.07.28 10:41:00 - [25]
 

Well if the discussions about hisec representation have not convinced you by now that we need to put up a slate of hisec candidates fro the next CSM perhaps the following diatribe from Mittani might.

Originally by: Fee Seas
Edited by: Fee Seas on 26/07/2011 22:46:53
Edited by: Fee Seas on 26/07/2011 22:46:38
Re-posted (minus permission) from a thread on the forums of EVE University (in all of its insignificance).
Quote:

This thread owns. I'll drop a proper reply because I have a soft spot in my heart for Unistas, like all newbies (the other two major newbie-obsessed entities in EVE being GSF and TEST).

1. Of course we knew that wormholes were 'nullsec'. Whoever wrote that line in the minutes - probably Trebor, Meissa or Two Step - misrepresented what occured. We were surprised, however, that you could day-trip into wormholes and mine ABC from hisec.

2. I don't give a **** about wormholes or wormhole issues. That also means that I'm not expending any political capital 'chasing' an ABC nerf in wormholes. I think it's stupid, but it's a trivial issue compared to the sucking chest wounds that impact this game and wormholes aren't my area of space. If you're spazzing about the comment, odds are that you are, yourself, a trivial person.

3. CSMs represent their voters. They might claim to represent the entire playerbase. If they have that delusion, good for them; I operate in a realm of political realities.

4. Probably due to e-fame, of the 5365 votes I received, only 1700 came from my own alliance (we ran exit polls to determine the approx GSF count). If you voted for me, as far as I'm concerned, you deserve realposts and can evemail me anytime with your concerns about whatever. If you didn't vote for me, I don't care about your opinion, and might go out of my way to actively antagonize you because, as a sadist, I enjoy hurting people I dislike.

5. If you think the election was 'rigged' you're a joke. Nullsec is incredibly organized in order to survive. CSM5 demonstrated to nullsec that power in the hands of the ignorant could be incredibly damaging to the game, so Nullsec seized the CSM by out-organizing everyone else.

6. There's a tremendous amount of influence and power within the CSM, but it's not a explicitly delineated power. This means that babbys who don't understand how power works see it as powerless - which suits me fine, because then they don't vote and tell their friends not to vote. This makes it easier for someone who's organized and motivated - like me - to win. Babbys can make badposts about how the CSM is powerless, I'll have quiet conversations at 3am in bars in Reykjavik with key devs to try to convince them to fix the broken areas of the game. Win-win. This is already paying off with TiDi, Iterative Ship Balance, and I hope - judging from the public statements in interviews and such - supercapital balancing.

7. I'm 'arrogant' because I don't care what most people think, and I'm secure in my life and my position ingame. I've 'won' EVE - accomplishing various goals I set for myself (every man's 'win EVE' is dfferent) - so many times now that I don't really give a **** anymore. The Great War was won, I did a bunch of crazy espionage crap and I've successfully led one of the best blocs in the game. If that makes me arrogant, whatevs - New Eden tramples the humble.


http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45565&start=90


Well, "arrogant" is one way of putting it, contemptuous of and derelict in his duty to ALL the players of EVE, self-serving, self-righteous might be a few more that he might like to add to his CV.

As for the number of votes cast in his favour as P.T. Barnum is reputed to have said "You can fool some of the people all the time ..." Those people who voted for candidates from 0.0 and are now being ignored, or worse, might like to reconsider who they cast a vote for next time.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.28 11:55:00 - [26]
 

There are no "hi-sec" representatives in the CSM, because there were no "hi-sec" candidates that were as voteworthy as the 9 best "0.0" candidates.

D'Leh Mannuck
Posted - 2011.07.28 13:24:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
There are no "hi-sec" representatives in the CSM, because there were no "hi-sec" candidates that were as voteworthy as the 9 best "0.0" candidates.


Leave it to a carpal Tunnel Syndrome victim to come with an answer like that.

There might be that other reason that 0.0 blockvoted like mad to get their candidates in and due to the fact there were too many high sec candidates, which couldn't get a blockvote, the dispersion of votes there kept em out.


Jaxon Grylls
Posted - 2011.07.28 14:28:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck

due to the fact there were too many high sec candidates, which couldn't get a blockvote, the dispersion of votes there kept em out.


My point exactly. We need to have a slate of credible hisec candidates to ensure that we are adequately represented on the next CSM to ensure that the our interests are adequately protected. Which with the current CSM is not going to happen.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:18:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 28/07/2011 17:19:31
A "credible," highsec candidate would have to be campeigning long before anyone else due to the fact he or she would essentially be rallying a playerbase that is incredibly diverse, lazy, and fearful.

Hazarding a glance at the "highsec," forum names that would have a shot at garnering such support I don't see anyone who's game to do it. So if you want your opinions better represented and you're tired of our 0.0 politics hogging the show, I suggest you get out there and find a candidate who's willing to take on this task and be damned sure they're good at e-politics.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.07.28 17:38:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
and be damned sure they're good at e-politics.


Thank you for making me smile.
Actually roar with laughter.

Looking at the current " representatives " I can say that being good at e-politics is the last thing one can say of them.


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