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Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
Posted - 2011.07.21 13:42:00 - [181]
 

For the good of the "research" i share with you a part of our killboard.

WH mini Hulkaggeddon

Now, after that, who can say WH is safe to mine, and who can say that if they had local the outcome would be the same?!

Antarra Starwind
Posted - 2011.07.22 19:31:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Sabre Tek
Your writing style sucks, go back to school. You could of said all of that in 2 paragraphs.

I stopped reading after your writing turned into drivel which was just after you started typing...


Says the fail-troll who could have been more convincing if he'd just learned basic English composition Rolling Eyes

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.22 22:07:00 - [183]
 

OP, trust the CSM. They are not only smarter than you but better looking as well.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.07.22 22:48:00 - [184]
 

Anyone having balls to mine in hulk in no loca space should have his reward doubled.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:00:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
OP, trust the CSM. They are not only smarter than you but better looking as well.


Hard to think of someone as being "smarter" when they didn't even realize wormhole space is "null" and has ABC ore.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:16:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 22/07/2011 23:17:04
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
OP, trust the CSM. They are not only smarter than you but better looking as well.


Hard to think of someone as being "smarter" when they didn't even realize wormhole space is "null" and has ABC ore.

Hehehehe... "WHAT?!? WH's are 0.0!?! From no knowledge to complete expert in (what was it?) five minutes flat?


Edit: Spelling, of course....




Alu Utukku
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:39:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
OP, trust the CSM. They are not only smarter than you but better looking as well.


Oh, I trust the CSM alright. I trust them to **** over every single player in Eve until the isk is vacuumed out of the corners of the wallet, the hangar, the planet, the belt, and my ass.

I trust the CSM to take every little ****ing piece of eve and launder it through several proxies before handing it back to us and saying, 'it's all good, we just had it cleaned for you'.

I trust the CSM to lie through their ****ing teeth when they decide 'Gee, let's **** with space that has it anywhere near as much fun and isk potential as we do, since we can't take away Incursions without being face****d by CCP'.

Sure, I trust the CSM...Say, is that you Mitts?

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.23 06:41:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Alu Utukku
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
OP, trust the CSM. They are not only smarter than you but better looking as well.


Oh, I trust the CSM alright. I trust them to **** over every single player in Eve until the isk is vacuumed out of the corners of the wallet, the hangar, the planet, the belt, and my ass.

I trust the CSM to take every little ****ing piece of eve and launder it through several proxies before handing it back to us and saying, 'it's all good, we just had it cleaned for you'.

I trust the CSM to lie through their ****ing teeth when they decide 'Gee, let's **** with space that has it anywhere near as much fun and isk potential as we do, since we can't take away Incursions without being face****d by CCP'.

Sure, I trust the CSM...Say, is that you Mitts?

It's posts like this that prove the current CSM members should be permanent or at the very least Chairman Mittani should be made Chairman For Life Mittani.
Anything less is allowing the patients to run the asylum.

Zenku Marku
Posted - 2011.07.23 08:31:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Anything less is allowing the patients to run the asylum.

i.e. - Goonswarm...Laughing

Mikalia Sunstorm
Posted - 2011.07.24 02:19:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

It's posts like this that prove the current CSM members should be permanent or at the very least Chairman Mittani should be made Chairman For Life Mittani.
Anything less is allowing the patients to run the asylum.


Stop posting? Will you please just stop posting?

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.24 04:00:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Mikalia Sunstorm
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

It's posts like this that prove the current CSM members should be permanent or at the very least Chairman Mittani should be made Chairman For Life Mittani.
Anything less is allowing the patients to run the asylum.


Stop posting? Will you please just stop posting?


Never.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.24 04:49:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

It's posts like this that prove the current CSM members should be permanent or at the very least Chairman Mittani should be made Chairman For Life Mittani.
Anything less is allowing the patients to run the asylum.


Why would anyone be worth giving a "for life" title when they don't even have the balls to live in wormholes?

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.07.24 05:21:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 24/07/2011 05:28:06

Originally by: Ildus Hekx
Edited by: Ildus Hekx on 17/07/2011 22:51:07
It's time for people in wormhole space and in high sec to get together and form a real voting bloc for the next CSM election. Frankly, based on numbers alone you could take every seat if the player base is motivated. Further nerfing of exploration or wormhole exploitation kills part of the fun in playing EVE for me. And I won't stand for it without some kind of fight... The views of too few have been touted for too long as the direction EVE should chart.

People rioted in Jita over NEX rumors. You've got game shifting facts here...


Last time that happened, they voted for Ankhesentapemkah, due to her spamming highsec. She threw a spoon at someone, trolled the forums a lot, then got kicked off the CSM for a violation of NDA.

The interest of highsec players is only highsec players. If that.


I'm starting to lose hope in the CSM entirely. I've definitely lost all hope in The Mittani. I voted for him, and that was a mistake. He campaigned as a guy who knows how to fight CCP. He actually is a guy who got bought off with some beers, and proudly became CCP's pre-eminent PR man, mugging his goatee on youtube about how awesome CCP are with their microtransaction plans. He got played, and for cheap. And on top of that, now we learn he doesn't even understand basic game mechanics, but feels perfectly comfortable lobbying for their changes regardless.

Mittani's CSM is craven to CCP, and uses what power they have to lobby for really stupid changes to game mechanics. Horrible. All of us who voted for these clowns should realize our mistakes. I certainly do now.

Asm Khurelem
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:09:00 - [194]
 

+1 to OP

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:19:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Jonathan Ferguson on 24/07/2011 21:29:05
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
I'm starting to lose hope in the CSM entirely. I've definitely lost all hope in The Mittani. I voted for him, and that was a mistake. He campaigned as a guy who knows how to fight CCP. He actually is a guy who got bought off with some beers, and proudly became CCP's pre-eminent PR man, mugging his goatee on youtube about how awesome CCP are with their microtransaction plans. He got played, and for cheap. And on top of that, now we learn he doesn't even understand basic game mechanics, but feels perfectly comfortable lobbying for their changes regardless.

Mittani's CSM is craven to CCP, and uses what power they have to lobby for really stupid changes to game mechanics. Horrible. All of us who voted for these clowns should realize our mistakes. I certainly do now.


It's really more of a 'landing strip' than a goatee.

As for realizing your mistakes, I'm glad that you do now. It might also be wise to find out who had figured all this out back then and perhaps give their current arguments a 2nd look.

Here's me back on April 11:

"Since many seem to delusionally believe that the Mittani will bring significant positive changes to the core gameplay (Internet Spaceships) of EVE:

Mittens is on every level a less attractive candidate for CSM chair than Mynxee was. Here's just a few reasons why that's true:

Mynxee is a mature, level-headed woman. Mittens is an arrogant blowhard.

Mynxee cared passionately about the game (Internet Spaceships) and actually played it. Mittens barely plays Internet Spaceships at all.

Mynxee truly wanted to make EVE better for everyone. Mittens wants to make EVE better for the people who voted for him (overwhelmingly Goons.)

Mynxee is a hard worker. Mittens is 'retired' in his 30's.

Mynxee had no hidden agendas. Mittens has nothing but hidden agendas.

Mynxee believed in developing consensus. Mittens believes in autocratic rule.

Mynxee was willing to work with anyone who was willing to work in good faith with her. Mittens is too divisive to lead effectively.

I could go on, but bottom line, Chairman Mao brings nothing to the table that Mynxee lacked and lacks several of the qualities that Mynxee has.

CCP might reverse course and start focusing on excellence, but it will be because they start bleeding significant # of subscriptions, not because of anything that Chairman Mao does."

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:29:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Gurgeh Murat
Wormhole ner***e screws the endgame for small corp/alliances.

Nullsec is the "big boy" territory. Your part of a large corp/alliance or you tithe to a large corp/alliance.

WH space is free for all. No sov, no cyno jammers. No predictable routes. Free for all, you take and hold (or lose) purely through strenghth of arms and/or tactics.

Nerf wormholes? **** NO....beef them up. Encourage folk to play in them. Revel in the fact that botting in wormholes IS suicide. Botting deep in cyno jammed space is just a licence to print/sell isk. Nobody gets away with afk mining in a wormhole.

Wormhole space is the best thing CCP have introduced into the game in the last couple of years. A place ANY corp can strike it big if they have balls. Nerfing it is a big middle finger to people who want to strike out on their own path.

Does CCP want to condone or condemn emergent gameplay? Or will they pander to the botting ****s in nullsec who cut off options to "join us, rent from us or die"

IM pretty much a carebear really, Ive lived in a WH then moved out. Changes to nullsec or WH space makes little difference to me aside from changing how I make profit.

Ill still argue against nerfing something that means nothing that means sod all to my bottom line purely because its
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


+rep

Malkev
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:48:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: Malkev on 24/07/2011 21:50:59
Originally by: The Mittani (CSM Fireside Chat)
I'll go ahead, and like, jump on this grenade cause there's a bunch of angry, like, wormholers who are all p****ed off about it and I don't give a s**t. Uh, basically it's stupid that you can mine Arkanor two jumps from Jita through a wormhole and low risk in my opinion.

Uh, on the other hand, you should probably stop panicking because I think in the sucking chest wounds of EVE Online, uh, ABC's in wormholes are stupid for um, uh, class 1 through class 4. Class 5 and 6 is fine cause they're going to be more removed from empire. I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a Hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 or whatever and get ABC when ABC is something that is typically, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space that's far from empire.

Uh, and we think that it's important to make mining a valuable, uh, profession again particularly with those high end ores because their prices crashed. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate, uh, getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much. Um, but yeah, I think its dumb that there's ABC's in wormholes, but it's not the first order of business on my political agenda. I'm a little bit more focused on things like supercap balance, nullsec being miserable, lag, iterative ship balance so don't worry your pretty little heads about it.

I believe ^^this^^ goes well with the title of this thread.

H121 Max Jump Mass: 20,000,000 kg
Hulk Mass: 40,000,000 kg

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:57:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Malkev
Edited by: Malkev on 24/07/2011 21:50:59
Originally by: The Mittani (CSM Fireside Chat)
I'll go ahead, and like, jump on this grenade cause there's a bunch of angry, like, wormholers who are all p****ed off about it and I don't give a s**t. Uh, basically it's stupid that you can mine Arkanor two jumps from Jita through a wormhole and low risk in my opinion.

Uh, on the other hand, you should probably stop panicking because I think in the sucking chest wounds of EVE Online, uh, ABC's in wormholes are stupid for um, uh, class 1 through class 4. Class 5 and 6 is fine cause they're going to be more removed from empire. I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a Hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 or whatever and get ABC when ABC is something that is typically, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space that's far from empire.

Uh, and we think that it's important to make mining a valuable, uh, profession again particularly with those high end ores because their prices crashed. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate, uh, getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much. Um, but yeah, I think its dumb that there's ABC's in wormholes, but it's not the first order of business on my political agenda. I'm a little bit more focused on things like supercap balance, nullsec being miserable, lag, iterative ship balance so don't worry your pretty little heads about it.

I believe ^^this^^ goes well with the title of this thread.

H121 Max Jump Mass: 20,000,000 kg
Hulk Mass: 40,000,000 kg


That does not apply to his own agendas or interest, so no reason to pay attention to minor details..

Casanunda
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 17:41:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Casanunda on 25/07/2011 17:47:25

Quote:
Mittens : I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a Hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 or whatever and get ABC when ABC is something that is typically, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space that's far from empire.


I'd like to see Mittens take a daytrip into a WH in a hulk, for one he won't get it in to a C1, too big. Then he'll mine for 15 minutes and die as he's attempting to warp off from the sleepers that just spawned especially seeing as he'd be in a C2 not a C1 because of the mass limit.

Does he not realise that mining in a wormhole is very much like mining in 0.0? It needs a fleet, some fire support, usually an orca and some other hulks.

2 jumps from Jita that wormhole is going to be like I95. The NPC's hit hard, there will be numerous people venturing in to have a looksee, they see a hulk mining, its pretty much dead without a fire support fleet to protect it from roving gangs and the initial sleeper spawn.

All this on top of no local and having to scan the sig in the first place, then having to spam directional all the time. In a wormhole there are no reds, there are no blues, there is only corp and fleet, everyone else is considered hostile.

edit grammar and generally making sense

velinqangi
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:53:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Malkev
Edited by: Malkev on 24/07/2011 21:50:59
Originally by: The Mittani (CSM Fireside Chat)
I'll go ahead, and like, jump on this grenade cause there's a bunch of angry, like, wormholers who are all p****ed off about it and I don't give a s**t. Uh, basically it's stupid that you can mine Arkanor two jumps from Jita through a wormhole and low risk in my opinion.

Uh, on the other hand, you should probably stop panicking because I think in the sucking chest wounds of EVE Online, uh, ABC's in wormholes are stupid for um, uh, class 1 through class 4. Class 5 and 6 is fine cause they're going to be more removed from empire. I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a Hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 or whatever and get ABC when ABC is something that is typically, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space that's far from empire.

Uh, and we think that it's important to make mining a valuable, uh, profession again particularly with those high end ores because their prices crashed. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate, uh, getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much. Um, but yeah, I think its dumb that there's ABC's in wormholes, but it's not the first order of business on my political agenda. I'm a little bit more focused on things like supercap balance, nullsec being miserable, lag, iterative ship balance so don't worry your pretty little heads about it.



This guy with the bloated ego is chairman!?? What an arrogant and condescending Pr!*K! Ill be amazed if any consensus can be reached with him talking to people like that.Coupled with the fact he has no idea what hes talking about.Rolling Eyes

Jita Bloodtear
Posted - 2011.07.29 00:34:00 - [201]
 

I'm surprised it's taken me this long to find this thread. I find no fault with the logic or presentation of facts from the OP. That being said, high end minerals are crashing in the markets like crazy. There's far too great a supply coming in from WH space and nullsec.

As a hardcore nullsec miner (I wrote the guide on the dominion industry upgrades) I can vouch there's at least some work that goes into maintaining a high industry system (ie. you have to mine low-level ores if you want to refresh a belt and maintain industry rating). My impression with WH divers were that it was more of an opportunistic cherry picking venture to pick out ABC (probably mostly just Arkanor nowadays) and then head out. That being said, I do empathize with your 75% local refine.

I know from nullsec I personally generated tens of millions of arkonor and zydrine, but I'm skeptical of the CSM claims that WH miners generate a significant percentage of the ABC. If I had to pull numbers of of the blue, I'd estimate 15-30% of zydr/mega comes from WHs, and the rest comes from our nullsec infinitely renewable belts. I do think supply needs to be cut, and the next logical step is to probably nerf Dominion industry upgrades to become tied to sec status, just like they did with sanctums. They could also stand to cut ABC from low end WHs. All I know is there's too much supply.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.29 01:18:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
I'm surprised it's taken me this long to find this thread. I find no fault with the logic or presentation of facts from the OP. That being said, high end minerals are crashing in the markets like crazy. There's far too great a supply coming in from WH space and nullsec.

As a hardcore nullsec miner (I wrote the guide on the dominion industry upgrades) I can vouch there's at least some work that goes into maintaining a high industry system (ie. you have to mine low-level ores if you want to refresh a belt and maintain industry rating). My impression with WH divers were that it was more of an opportunistic cherry picking venture to pick out ABC (probably mostly just Arkanor nowadays) and then head out. That being said, I do empathize with your 75% local refine.

I know from nullsec I personally generated tens of millions of arkonor and zydrine, but I'm skeptical of the CSM claims that WH miners generate a significant percentage of the ABC. If I had to pull numbers of of the blue, I'd estimate 15-30% of zydr/mega comes from WHs, and the rest comes from our nullsec infinitely renewable belts. I do think supply needs to be cut, and the next logical step is to probably nerf Dominion industry upgrades to become tied to sec status, just like they did with sanctums. They could also stand to cut ABC from low end WHs. All I know is there's too much supply.


You still don't get it. Whether you're ninja-mining or not, WH mining is far more dangerous and less lucrative than mining in K-space 0.0. Therefore nerfing it is wrong. You don't nerf something that's already underpowered. So no, they could NOT also 'stand to cut ABC from low end WHs.' They COULD stand to cut ABC from where the mining bots live, sov K-space 0.0.

You don't buff dramiels. You don't nerf Electronic Attack Frigates and Black Ops BS. For the same reason, you don't nerf ABC in any WH, let alone the most dangerous (the ones with K-space access) ones. Many people are too proud/stupid/trollish to admit the obvious. Are you?

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.07.29 02:27:00 - [203]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 29/07/2011 02:27:25
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
. There's far too great a supply coming in from WH space...



Prove it. Look a few posts back. I ran the math on the amount of time it would take a w-space pilot to move the amount of ore that a single null freighter could carry out in minerals. The numbers don't support any way that w-space can significantly impact mineral prices. It's literally the difference between a few hours for a null freighter compared to a couple of years for a w-space pilot. And how many freighters with minerals are coming out of null every day?

Please check my math.

Jita Bloodtear
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:53:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: JC Ferguson

You still don't get it. Whether you're ninja-mining or not, WH mining is far more dangerous and less lucrative than mining in K-space 0.0. Therefore nerfing it is wrong. You don't nerf something that's already underpowered. So no, they could NOT also 'stand to cut ABC from low end WHs.' They COULD stand to cut ABC from where the mining bots live, sov K-space 0.0.

I get it. We all understand that WH mining is dangerous, and definitely a more nervous prospect than nullsec mining, but let's not jump to the conclusion that it's less profitable (the cherry picking potential is enormous). And none of this means that it shouldn't be nerfed as part of game balancing changes.

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 29/07/2011 02:27:25
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
. There's far too great a supply coming in from WH space...



Prove it.

I don't know if this is a deliberate attempt at quote mining, but my sentence actually read:

"There's far too great a supply coming in from WH space and nullsec."

The evidence for this is the steady decline in zydrine/megacyte prices since Dominion, which implies an increase in supply, or a decrease in demand. And I'd argue that demand has only increased over time.

Your argument about the difficulty of shipping things is an unrelated argument based on improper starting assumptions. You're claiming that because it's more efficient to ship pure megacyte in a freighter than raw arkonor in an orca, that WH mining should never be rebalanced because it was never feasible in the first place. This is obviously not true, as people mine in WHs all the time.

It is my understanding that WH corporations prefer to occupy WH with statics to other higher level wormholes. This allows them to set up a tower and receive a rotating cycle of new wormhole connections. It would also be my assumption that you could compress ore before you exported it if you had problems with m3. The other choice is to refine it in a tower, taking a mandatory 25% hit to the yield. Refined arkonor compresses down to an insignificant (641x smaller) m3 of zydrine/megacyte, which can easily be exported with any hauler.

If you are instead arguing that you are working in a WH out of highsec, I don't see how you could do this in a regular way without an epic amount of probing on a daily basis, and exporting back through the WH the raw ore as you mine it. This is not a very feasible strategy and is of course extremely ineffective. And using an improper strategy to judge the entire system would not be valid.

Now let's talk about WH yield. I've been in WHs and scanned down their belts. I know they can naturally spawn grav sites that are equivalent to the giant belts of 0.0. I know they also have other smaller grav sites roughly equivalent to the small, med, large, xlarges as well. These sites spawn without any effort exerted by players in generating them. There are currently 2499 wormholes in Eve, and 3294 nullsec systems (hundreds are un-sovable NPC space). The VAST majority of nullsec systems are not industry upgraded, and of the few hundreds that are (check ingame galaxy map for industry indices) 80% are not past level three.

This means that at any given time, WH space contains a huge reserve of ever renewing ABC ore that a nullsec pilots have to work dozens of manhours a day just to match. You can argue that most WHs are not being accessed by a cherry picking mining corp at any given time, but that's okay because then more belts spawn for when they do arrive.

Not speaking to the politics of WHs vs nullsec (small corp vs large alliance), but combined we are both still putting out way too much ABC. I believe both nullsec and WH mining should be rebalanced to yield fewer high end ores.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.07.29 08:31:00 - [205]
 

no local = only minor problem it is also advantage cannot really compare to normal 0.0 doesnt make it more risky tbfh

logistics from many wormholes is tons and tons easier than from 0.0 even c6 and c5 will eventually spawn lolololo hi sec exit and can have static route to c1 or c2 which will have exit to low or hi sec for lolololo easy logistix

dont bull**** about how difficult wh are they are not even tho they are different

Pixie Pants McProducer
Posted - 2011.07.29 19:17:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
I'm surprised it's taken me this long to find this thread. I find no fault with the logic or presentation of facts from the OP. That being said, high end minerals are crashing in the markets like crazy. There's far too great a supply coming in from WH space and nullsec.



Where the hell else are they supposed to come in from then?

High end mineral prices have been F-ed ever since the introduction of drone regions. The introduction of WH's had a negligible effect in comparison.

Scouting Party
Posted - 2011.07.29 20:11:00 - [207]
 

Speaking as someone who maintains multiple WH POS on behalf of an alliance I won't name:

W-space is hellishly good fun, providing logistical nightmares, pirates at the gates and relatively good isk. The legendary 2-jump to Jita thing amuses me. Why go two jumps out? I've had wormholes leading to Sobaeski, Perimeter, Maurasi, Ikuchi, Muvolailien and Niyabainen. I'm waiting to get one to New Caldari to complete the set. It's a fairly rare opportunity (as far as I can tell, wormholes prefer to go into low-activity systems, and never venture into hubs), but we took advantage of it when it happened. As you should.

Because, when you don't, you die horribly. Ignoring that hole to Niyabainen, or dc'ing whilst using it, and ending up with the hole out in Solitude hisec instead is a pain. Suddenly, your multi-billion isk faction fit tengu, or your billion isk cargo in a t2 indy starts to look somewhat fragile.

It's those 9 losec jumps. They make me sweat.

My point? Wormholes are not this ultra-safe zone that we're made out to be. Sure, in a wormhole we're practically untouchable. On average, I get 2 connecting holes that I don't know about a week per hole. That's 2 holes connected in from hostile wspace. About half of those holes are pirates. With cov ops, interdictors, and every other dirty trick in the game. Without a local chat, I can't see them until they land on my tengu's head and burn me out of my ship. It hurts.

Wormholes are not a safe option.

Compared to sov space, they're like a special kind of hell. That said, I have sov space down as safer than hisec.... basing it on experience of being part of a 0.0 sov alliance (which I quit, as college meant that my response to CTA was 'get lost, I have to be up for college in 6 hours, and the FC's were getting all arsey.)


To move on from the relative dangers of nullsec/wspace, I found the notion that wspace is somehow 'ruining ABC ore profits' hilarious. One corporation in my alliance has 25 miners sat around a POS, telling stories. They've not had a single grav site for nearly 2 weeks.

Am I supposed to believe that this large amount of ABC ores has debalanced the market?

Wormholes are not based on solid facts and figures. Over a month, a C1 wormhole makes between 200m and 1b. Depending on random chance. Over a month, all wormholes get between 0 and a practically infinite amount of grav sites, and hence ABC ores.

The day when nullsec can sit and claim that, sometimes, all their sov upgrades stop working, their star gates disappear, their cyno's stop working, they can't have more than 2-3 ships per pilot, and they have to go through permamently hostile space to get to where they want to be.. maybe then, just then, they can say that wspace has some effect on the ABC markets.


Makes me wonder if anyone has done the maths... many wormhole corporations lose more ships due to sleepers and pirates than they mine ore to make. How many wormhole corporations mine more than they lose, and how does this contribute as an overall figure to the market?

How many nullsec alliances, with their botting frenzies, have a similarly small effect?

Klokvarg
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.16 05:27:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Klokvarg on 16/08/2011 05:28:28
Originally by: Scouting Party
Makes me wonder if anyone has done the maths... many wormhole corporations lose more ships due to sleepers and pirates than they mine ore to make. How many wormhole corporations mine more than they lose, and how does this contribute as an overall figure to the market?

How many nullsec alliances, with their botting frenzies, have a similarly small effect?


You make excellent points. To someone who understands the way wormhole space really works this whole thing is preposterous.

The real eye opener is that it seems (from Zulu's & others comments) that CCP has no idea how wormhole space works. That's incredibly disappointing.

It is very possible that the CCPers that are in the know about wh space are just not in communication with people like Zulu, but.... who knows?



edit: punctuation

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.08.16 08:52:00 - [209]
 

I can think of very few Eve PVE activities more suicidal that mining in a wormhole two jumps from Jita. Certainly, carebearing in 0.0 in complete safety thanks to local isn't one of them.

Mecatama Mk2
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.25 13:16:00 - [210]
 

some read... Yes. this!


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