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blankseplocked Ignorance is Bliss, A 0.0 Wormhole Comparison.
 
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:57:00 - [31]
 

Id be genuinely interested to see the current CSM lineup just to see how it weighs in terms of hisec/lowsec/nullsec/wormhole representation.

Its wrong to say people shouldnt advocate their particular position. IM just wondering how the current CSM makeup reflects the current eve population. In particular, Im wondering how many CEO's of large alliances (such as he who shall not be named but has a really bad beardette sprouting out his chin) got voted in simply because they rallied the alliance with a single email while the majority of people just went "meh"

I know I didnt vote, and thus I got the CSM I deserved. Mea culpa. If anyone has a link to the voting stats id be particularly interested in those.

Seven Duce
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:00:00 - [32]
 

I think you are spot on with a lot of your points op.. there are many vets who have got tired of 0.0 screwjob and entered the wormhole to try and make their own way.

But we all know the big alliances have the real pull when it comes to having CCPs ear, so time to rinse the little guy once again.

The sad thing is that the big alliances hardly need indie corps full stop anymore cos they are all using bot armies for RMT. We all know the culprits that began this trend but unfortunately the rest seem to have decided if you cant beat them join them..

CSM has turned out to be one of the worst developments in the game. We hoped it would give players more input into eve future, but instead its just as farce giving the usual suspects an even more direct channel to CCP devs than before!

I've already voted with my wallet, all my accounts have been liquidated except one trade alt storing my ISK. I hope to return one day.. this is still my favourite MMO

Yoruichi kun
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:04:00 - [33]
 

+1 to the OP

But with a side note as long as the alliance leaders do not change there behaviour towards industry/miners
the whole point is kinda moot.

Maybe I have been in the wrong alliances I am not sure, the reason at one point I left EVE was the constant forced in to PVP and loosing ships faster then I could replace them.
I love to pvp don't get me wrong but my main purpose is staring at roids helping the alliance I am in and support them.

I am not in EVE to get cursed at and so on.
My fun is in mining and building and occasionally PVP.

I want to say more but it will only get me more grief here in the forums.

Otto Weston
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:05:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Otto Weston on 17/07/2011 09:09:30
Edited by: Otto Weston on 17/07/2011 09:09:11
Totally agree with everything you've said about wormholes.

The key point the CSM seem to be missing is logistics.. The deeper you are in W-Space, the more rare a high sec exit becomes - to the point that you probably have to scan through a chain of Wh's to get to High sec. Not only does scanning down these Wormholes take time, but every single wh you scan down could have hostiles waiting to take down yor transports full of loot etc. etc.

If you've set up shop in your WH, it's not guaranteed that your transport with POS fuel will make it, and then you lose your shields and safety. There is nothing about wormholes that are 'safe' in any shape or form.

On another note, Wormhole residents should be the ones who are complaining; null sec systems get the ability to construct super-caps and moon mine etc. They have a lot more potentially profitable ways to make isk than people in wh's.


Oh yeh, and +1 Very Happy

Hroya
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:23:00 - [35]
 

So actuall true space gets added to the game, people who dont want to be part of politcal "annoyance" of null sec start to flok them. Carving out their own limited swat of space away from powermongers in all the logistical and security hardship out there.

Yet you ( unaware CSM members ) felt compelled to speak up about a topic you had no prior knowledge about.

I dont know, but when some high sec dweller usually speaks up about null sec afairs they get kicked in the groins for how dare they ! They dont know what it's like, they should simply shut up.

Imo i suggest you uninformed CSM members should do the same or spend some time on that content first and then come back.

I dont care about your reasons for your suggestions. Figure out the field before you know what you can reap from it.


Midori Amiiko
Gallente
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.07.17 10:02:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Midori Amiiko on 17/07/2011 10:03:34
An overlooked difficulty of living in W-space is trying to find the right system. You want to know that it's got the static connections you want. You can't take some website's word on it. It should have the right planets so you can make as many POS fuels as POSsible. It's gotta be the right class. You've got to consider system anomalies.

Then you've got to set up those POSes, and keep them fueled. Then there's the daily scan...not just your system, but the w-systems linked to yours. Some of those systems have 30-50 anomalies to scan down. Even with help, that's a big job. Eventually, you're going to play out your home system. Then you've got to go to adjacent systems. Better not get stuck in there. Some of my corpies had that happen. After spammiing local for a few days, hoping for a friendly voice to guide them to an exit (or just ambush them) they had to self-destruct their sleeper-fit ships. One poor sod lost a crap-ton of ISK, good implants, and SP when he self-popped his Tengu.

No stations seems like a small thing, but let me break that down for you 0.0 guys: No clone jumping. No clone updating. No insurance. No missions. No markets. No repairs. NO swapping out subsystems. No station games. No privacy. No NeX. (LOL)

Cleaning up sleeper sites. Hassles with storing and fitting ships with hangars and arrays. Little individual storage space (better trust those corpies!) Accounting for everything.

No bounty rats, and the other stuff already mentioned like logistical nightmares, no local, and d-scanning until you break your mouse.

There are other wormhole corps who can/will leave a scout in your system so they can show up whenever the right hole opens up and it's convenient for them to attack you. That's a serious (although intermittent) threat that can't be ignored. After two or three days, that scout knows you better than your own mother.

Most of all, I found living in W-space to be very isolating. You're in there, and if you want to leave, you don't know how long it'll be till you can get back--and I can almost guarantee that while you're in k-space someone will scan down a hole to a system slopping over with ISK and you won't be able to join in the plunder. Does a bit of ABC seem so out of balance now?

W-space is about the MOST balanced thing I've ever done in this game. CCP should leave it alone.

(Edited for formatting)



Otto Weston
Posted - 2011.07.17 10:31:00 - [37]
 

This ^^^^^^

Mama Carebear
Posted - 2011.07.17 10:47:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Lyrrashae
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 17/07/2011 08:03:06
I couldn't agree more.

+111 for the OP, because he just won EVE.

W-space is the last bastion of the real EVE-Online experience, by the way: No local, no blues, no sov, no pipes, no blobs, no super-capitals, not bottable....No room for the alliance-kiddies.

It's EVE on "Normal"-mode, as far as I'm concerned.

This ^^

and +42 for the OP

Tanzor
Posted - 2011.07.17 14:36:00 - [39]
 

I agree with the OP and pretty much all the discussion in between as they are well thought out and present valid arguments.

CCP & CSM - Don't remove ABC from WH space!

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 14:39:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
You have a short version? There is no way I am reading 10k characters of what is probably a defensive whine (judging by title).

But let me guess (applying logic), you spent an entire caffeine cycle blabbing about access differences twixt null and worms Smile

If the purpose is make day-trippers lose viability then a doubling of belt spawns is much more appropriate.




Sorry but it was less caffeine and more Rum. As far as blabbing goes, you are the first to mention this, and as such everyone else has had no issues. I will be going through and fixing a few grammar issues here shortly for all the new readers to the thread. Also if you stop to read what I've put together you will see every thing else you have asked for in this post that I have quoted isn't even there. I don't care about day trippers to me they make up little of the problem. I went for the throat of the issue and said what many think.

Sinikka Huiputti
Posted - 2011.07.17 14:57:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
The mass of all your ships
ē The amount of mass the wormhole is going to allow passage of, each wormhole can be different, this can be extremely limiting on the number of support you're bring for protection or the amount of goodies you take to market. You must also take into account if you didnít find said wormhole first you have no idea how much damage has been done. You must account for this also. Will the Wormhole support your return trip? How many times have you 0.0 dwellers went to move a fleet via jump bridges only to find out another group of people used up all the Liquid Ozone earlier and only half your fleet gets to make the jump? In wormholes we donít get the options of taking regular gates to meet back up. We ARE separated and this alone can cause some serious risk moving those precious ABC ores you seem so hung up on.


as far as i understand when people are running wormhole operations they shut down all exits with high mass ship to prevent anyone entering their system and make if relatively fool proof safe, considering how big possibility there is to have enough people for killing even horde of hulks.

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 15:17:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti
Quote:
The mass of all your ships
ē The amount of mass the wormhole is going to allow passage of, each wormhole can be different, this can be extremely limiting on the number of support you're bring for protection or the amount of goodies you take to market. You must also take into account if you didnít find said wormhole first you have no idea how much damage has been done. You must account for this also. Will the Wormhole support your return trip? How many times have you 0.0 dwellers went to move a fleet via jump bridges only to find out another group of people used up all the Liquid Ozone earlier and only half your fleet gets to make the jump? In wormholes we donít get the options of taking regular gates to meet back up. We ARE separated and this alone can cause some serious risk moving those precious ABC ores you seem so hung up on.


as far as i understand when people are running wormhole operations they shut down all exits with high mass ship to prevent anyone entering their system and make if relatively fool proof safe, considering how big possibility there is to have enough people for killing even horde of hulks.



congratulations you figured out one thing from reading other posts, but what you have failed in reading is that other wormholes can always enter your system unannounced. Just because you crit one to a certain degree doesn't mean it stops all travel either. I may stop a battleship fleet, but in wormholes you are more likely to see t2 if not t3 fleets. The mass on the those ships are in insanely different and will allow for them to enter and leave typically.

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 15:20:00 - [43]
 

Also I have finished some edits, if people find a glaringly bad one let me know I can and will fix it.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.07.17 15:31:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti
Quote:
The mass of all your ships
ē The amount of mass the wormhole is going to allow passage of, each wormhole can be different, this can be extremely limiting on the number of support you're bring for protection or the amount of goodies you take to market. You must also take into account if you didnít find said wormhole first you have no idea how much damage has been done. You must account for this also. Will the Wormhole support your return trip? How many times have you 0.0 dwellers went to move a fleet via jump bridges only to find out another group of people used up all the Liquid Ozone earlier and only half your fleet gets to make the jump? In wormholes we donít get the options of taking regular gates to meet back up. We ARE separated and this alone can cause some serious risk moving those precious ABC ores you seem so hung up on.


as far as i understand when people are running wormhole operations they shut down all exits with high mass ship to prevent anyone entering their system and make if relatively fool proof safe, considering how big possibility there is to have enough people for killing even horde of hulks.



If the system has no statics, then you can do that, but it's rarely the case. If there's static a new wh will spawn when the old collapses, so you need to disturb it up to the verge as close as possible. But T3 has mass of what ~15mill, it's peanuts compared to 2-3bill that hole can handle. You may disturb it to the point of ~100mill, you'll prevent big ships, but it's still 6 T3+a coverts ops+a hic they will easily wreck your op.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.07.17 15:34:00 - [45]
 

CSM are divorced from reality.

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.07.17 15:53:00 - [46]
 

Very long read - but well thought-out.

- Wormhole Space is working as intended, leave it alone.
- Nullsec is working as intended, leave it alone.
- Industrialists have a role in EVE, are players, and are necessary to run successful alliance.
- While sov mechanics may need more work, and certain ships obviously need more work, the industry side of EVE is working as intended and should not be changed.
-Nullsec is profitable via the ability to 'enhance' systems, and thus their resources.
-WH is profitable due to sleeper loot.

The most IMPORTANT aspect of this game is to remember that it IS a game. How does that apply you say? Who in their right mind would go to worm-space? Who in their right mind would put up with nullsec politics? Who in their right mind would run missions over and over? Who in their right mind would explore? Who in their right mind would stare at market all day? Who in their right mind would mine? Who in their right mind would play EVE?

EVE Online's features are not based on profitability, but who enjoys them. Piracy is an excellent example - who the hell makes a profit on their pirate (i.e. no alt needed)? About 2%. So what the heck are the other 98% doing it for - isn't this game all about isk? Many features in this game work as intended - they were not designed around profitability, but advancement in difficulty and immersion. I personally find WH to be too much trouble, but the few months I was there it was like playing a totally different game.

Summary? No feature in EVE Online should be balanced based on profitability but on the intent of that feature's gameplay. Mining doesn't need a nerf or a boost, but it sure as hell could use a more interesting ui! Nullsec doesn't need more ore or business, but you betcha it needs a fix to supers and dreads! Missions don't need to make more or less isk, but we sure do wish they were more varied!

CSM - Improve Features, not Finances. CCP has already blundered into that lesson...why are you repeating it?

Splatacus
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:06:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Splatacus on 17/07/2011 16:08:23
+1 (or more) for an extremely concise, comprehensive and yet readable analysis of the situation. My hat is off to anyone who spends time for a thoughtful post like this.

Wrt WH - I just joined a WH corp and moved my carebear main into the hole. The corp is bringing me up to speed and the camaraderie within the corp formed by outside pressure and inside profit has changed my opinion of this game entirely.

It is one heck of an enjoyable game now and although I lack 0.0. experience to compare it against, I'd say to CCP - please don't screw with one of the few game elements that work very well. W-space generates great communities and player experiences. If you want to nerf, break, fix something - take those issues on that don't work well at the moment. And boy is that a long list already.

So, again +1 for the OP

Snyder Aringdon
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:55:00 - [48]
 

As someone who has done lots of mining in w-space (and still does from time to time), the whole argument that we get enough ABC ore in w-space to somehow "ruin" the market for 0.0 is absolute bull****. I live and mine in a C6, and here is the skinny. First, we don't get dense ores (+5% & +10%), only the basic ores. Second, we don't get to upgrade our systems to get more sites: one or two good ABC sites appear every week or so, and even then there is one, maybe two Ark rocks, two or three Bist rocks, a few Croks, and MAYBE one Merx rock (which is rarely valuable to shoot at). And since their are only ever one or two guys interested in shooting the d**n thing (due to the serious risk involved in sitting in a site in a Hulk with no local and having to spam d-scan religiously; AND the fact that we make f**ktons more ISK shooting at Sleepers than shooting at rocks), the sites are never cleared out anyway. And lets remember guys that we NEED these rocks to make the minerals that make the fullerenes that make your pretty T3 ships. You make us haul in the ore instead of being able to mine it, the prices on T3 go up; and while the 0.0 Galactic F**king Overlords may be able to take the hit, the other 555,000 people playing this game may not feel like it, and then our profits in w-space get cut. Which I'm sure the 0.0 pu**ies - who are begging for Sleeper sites in 0.0 so they can rat while watching local, knowing all routes are camped and the can hide in station should a single person pop in local - would not mind a bit. Don't tread on me.

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:56:00 - [49]
 

+1

I've poked around in WH space enough to find out the hard way about the fact that you aren't always alone.
That won't stop me from going back. As a player who is new to it all, it holds a lot of mystery and a good amount of excitement.

I very much agree with the commentary that WH space is "EVE on normal mode".

Having no 'local' simply rocks. Yeah, you don't know they are there, but they don't know you are either. And it gets down to a game of cloak and dagger, even if you are just exploring.

I think there are a lot of 0.0 people who fear "normal mode". They can't get by without their jump clones, stations, and all the amenities of 0.0. In a way, WH space makes *them* look like carebears.

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get KM's for taking someone down in WH space right? If that's so, you can cut a big chunk out of the low-sec/0.0 folks who play just for the stats.

In my short experience with wormholes, the only thing I would like to see changed would be maybe a little better ability to judge the stability of a wormhole (how long it will last, etc.), and *maybe* add more static ones, but this may not be a good idea. I don't have the experience to know if adding more static wormholes would have a detrimental effect on all of it.

The OP is great. Got me even more interested in WH space in general.

FatSheriff
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:58:00 - [50]
 

+1

Learath
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:19:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
I'll repost what I just wrote in the old thread about this:

---
Having listened to the fireside chat, it briefly touched something that makes this thing make a little bit more sense, but I got the impression that some of the CSM guys interpreted it wrong.

Maybe I got it wrong, but someone mentioned that the data suggested that Class 3 and Class 4 wormholes were pulling out large amounts of ABC. That makes a lot of sense to me, because those backend systems are relatively safe from a PvP perspective, and sleeper rats are quite easy to clear.
Established settlers can mine a lot of ore from these holes, but those are by no means daytrippers jumping in from Jita. Those are people that have to fight to hold their systems and keep them safe, in many ways the same that Empire null-sec people do. But even then the ABC available from these systems must be miniscule amounts compared to empire null.

Class 1 and Class 2 systems are quite different. They are much more dangerous from a small scale pvp perspective and they only have minor amounts of high-end ore. It's possible to daytrip class 1 and class 2 holes, but it is by no means a profitable endeavour, and I very much doubt they contribute much to the influx of ore.


So is it even important to have ABC in wormholes? From an economic perspective probably not, but it is a good conflict driver and w-space would be a more boring place for everyone without it.
---


Ahh very good. Lets quote the Ark mined, which is *totally* comparable between WH (best refine 75%, hauling mass limited and requires probing each and every time) and null (best refine 100%, hauling mass unlimited and trivial).

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:30:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Lyrrashae

I couldn't agree more.

+111 for the OP, because he just won EVE.

W-space is the last bastion of the real EVE-Online experience, by the way: No local, no blues, no sov, no pipes, no blobs, no super-capitals, not bottable....No room for the alliance-kiddies.

It's EVE on "Normal"-mode, as far as I'm concerned.


Xipheas
Evolving Strategies
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:55:00 - [53]
 

So many good posts in this thread.

Of all the myriad things that CCP could choose to "fix" (*ahem*) about this game, frankly this is the least deserving of their attention. In some weird, arse-about-face way, perhaps that's why they're focusing on it? Who knows what goes on in their minds.

v0v

Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT
Posted - 2011.07.17 19:38:00 - [54]
 

Not that anyone from the CSM will read this, but:

I am part of a corp with a setup in a C1. That's right, a tiny C1.

Nothing heavier than a BC gets in OR out. Did we mention that you cannot repackage ANYTHING inside a wh? So that hulk you brought in packaged, its too large to fly out and you can't repackage it so it stays inside the WH until it dies? Oh yeah, you can't reprocess equipment either.

Our C1 has a static to hisec. somewhere in hisec. could be 24 jumps to jita today, or 6. Could be inside a losec island so useless for bringing in fuel - 24 hours until your next chance (unless you want to spend the hour to try to collapse the wh early). It also receives 1 or 2 incoming wh from lord knows where, null, hisec, low, other W-space - its rather random.

Oh, yes, I suppose we are safe from super caps, caps, and battleships, but there is a whole load of death that can be loaded into ships smaller than a BS. T3, command ships, stealth bombers, cov ops. No insurance on your ship and no clone jumping. Oh, your character got podded ? Hopefully you can get to the static wh before it closes, otherwise you're stuff is GONE.

Oh, and as for logistics? When the largest hauler than can fly in is a mammoth, those loads of fuel are very precious. Ditto for flying loot out. Oh, ABC ores? how about 2k per flight? it takes serious effort to move that stuff out of a wh. Add the rest of the discussion regarding the additional RISK inside a wh, and you'll understand while eeking out a living hoping that maybe this week there might be a grav site and hopefully you don't loose too many ships trying to mine it.

C1 wh are often the offramp on the highway from deeper Wspace. Don't venture out when the big boys are hauling their loot - they take a seriously deadly view if you so much as show on d-scan. Chance to get a fragile hauler, sure, but for every hauler is usually a handfull of ships looking for folks like you.

W-space, and the apocrapha expansion that created it, are almost universally hailed as the best EVE expansion to date. It has increased energy into the EVE system, and thus creating niches for a variety of new player species. There are roaming gangs that do nothing but jump from wh to wh looking for PVP and There are pocket industrialists doing research and t3 production, and yes, there are wh miners. The EVE equivalent of the crab fishermen on "The most dangerous catch".

When we mine, we are the most vulnerable folks in the entire game. period. Everyone else has some hint when a cloaked fleet has entered a system. we have nothing. no warning, except on d-scan, if the invaders aren't cloaked. and with the response time of exhumers, a blip on dscan starts the longest 30 seconds of your day.

Take ABC from wh? Screw that. Take it from 0.0, as it is obviously wasted there.




Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.07.17 19:57:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Knug LiDi
Not that anyone from the CSM will read this, but:

I am part of a corp with a setup in a C1. That's right, a tiny C1.

Nothing heavier than a BC gets in OR out. Did we mention that you cannot repackage ANYTHING inside a wh? So that hulk you brought in packaged, its too large to fly out and you can't repackage it so it stays inside the WH until it dies? Oh yeah, you can't reprocess equipment either.

Our C1 has a static to hisec. somewhere in hisec. could be 24 jumps to jita today, or 6. Could be inside a losec island so useless for bringing in fuel - 24 hours until your next chance (unless you want to spend the hour to try to collapse the wh early). It also receives 1 or 2 incoming wh from lord knows where, null, hisec, low, other W-space - its rather random.

Oh, yes, I suppose we are safe from super caps, caps, and battleships, but there is a whole load of death that can be loaded into ships smaller than a BS. T3, command ships, stealth bombers, cov ops. No insurance on your ship and no clone jumping. Oh, your character got podded ? Hopefully you can get to the static wh before it closes, otherwise you're stuff is GONE.

Oh, and as for logistics? When the largest hauler than can fly in is a mammoth, those loads of fuel are very precious. Ditto for flying loot out. Oh, ABC ores? how about 2k per flight? it takes serious effort to move that stuff out of a wh. Add the rest of the discussion regarding the additional RISK inside a wh, and you'll understand while eeking out a living hoping that maybe this week there might be a grav site and hopefully you don't loose too many ships trying to mine it.

C1 wh are often the offramp on the highway from deeper Wspace. Don't venture out when the big boys are hauling their loot - they take a seriously deadly view if you so much as show on d-scan. Chance to get a fragile hauler, sure, but for every hauler is usually a handfull of ships looking for folks like you.

W-space, and the apocrapha expansion that created it, are almost universally hailed as the best EVE expansion to date. It has increased energy into the EVE system, and thus creating niches for a variety of new player species. There are roaming gangs that do nothing but jump from wh to wh looking for PVP and There are pocket industrialists doing research and t3 production, and yes, there are wh miners. The EVE equivalent of the crab fishermen on "The most dangerous catch".

When we mine, we are the most vulnerable folks in the entire game. period. Everyone else has some hint when a cloaked fleet has entered a system. we have nothing. no warning, except on d-scan, if the invaders aren't cloaked. and with the response time of exhumers, a blip on dscan starts the longest 30 seconds of your day.

Take ABC from wh? Screw that. Take it from 0.0, as it is obviously wasted there.






Is C1 even worth it? What kind of income do you get there?

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.17 21:42:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
CSM are a tokenist farce and a lie.


Fixed that for you. Actually, they are very much "married to" reality, it's just that that reality isn't even remotely reflective of any player who says "**** you" to the ZeroSec screw-job/circle-jerk, and the worthless ****-bags benefitting thereby. Like Neckbeard Man-child and his pitifully eager retinue of fluffers.

Possible exception: The last CSM, and that was mainly due to Mynxee, and that she actually has...oh, what's the word...oh right, integrity.

There is not a scrap of that on this CSM, and, frankly, the apathy of 80+ per cent of the player-base that allowed them to get in deserves nothing better.

</rant>

(Don't blame me, I voted for the Suddenly Ninjas guy!)

Casanunda
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.17 21:43:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Casanunda on 17/07/2011 21:46:16
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara


Is C1 even worth it? What kind of income do you get there?


Mining in a c1 isn't about income, it's about having raw materials for production, be it your own ammo or ships etc.

The less you have to ship in and out the easier the logistics, and wormhole logistics are an absolute pig at the best of times.

When the biggest thing you can get in or out is a standard hauler every m^3 counts especially where fuel is concerned. If you don't have to buy ammo etc, you can cram more pos fuel in that hauler, especially the ice products which are completely unavailable in wormhole space. Other fuel items are produced with PI which means even less to ship in, hence more essentials can be moved when you actually get an exit that's worth using.

Wormhole life is about being as self sufficent as you can, you make your own stuff and bring in as little as possible.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.17 21:52:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Snyder Aringdon
As someone who has done lots of mining in w-space (and still does from time to time), the whole argument that we get enough ABC ore in w-space to somehow "ruin" the market for 0.0 is absolute bull****. I live and mine in a C6, and here is the skinny. First, we don't get dense ores (+5% & +10%), only the basic ores. Second, we don't get to upgrade our systems to get more sites: one or two good ABC sites appear every week or so, and even then there is one, maybe two Ark rocks, two or three Bist rocks, a few Croks, and MAYBE one Merx rock (which is rarely valuable to shoot at). And since their are only ever one or two guys interested in shooting the d**n thing (due to the serious risk involved in sitting in a site in a Hulk with no local and having to spam d-scan religiously; AND the fact that we make f**ktons more ISK shooting at Sleepers than shooting at rocks), the sites are never cleared out anyway. And lets remember guys that we NEED these rocks to make the minerals that make the fullerenes that make your pretty T3 ships. You make us haul in the ore instead of being able to mine it, the prices on T3 go up; and while the 0.0 Galactic F**king Overlords may be able to take the hit, the other 555,000 people playing this game may not feel like it, and then our profits in w-space get cut. Which I'm sure the 0.0 pu**ies - who are begging for Sleeper sites in 0.0 so they can rat while watching local, knowing all routes are camped and the can hide in station should a single person pop in local - would not mind a bit. Don't tread on me.


THIS!!!!

NullSec trash: Go **** yourselves!

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:34:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Ruiryu

congratulations you figured out one thing from reading other posts, but what you have failed in reading is that other wormholes can always enter your system unannounced. Just because you crit one to a certain degree doesn't mean it stops all travel either. I may stop a battleship fleet, but in wormholes you are more likely to not see t3 fleets until it's too late. The mass on the those ships are in insanely different and will allow for them to enter and leave typically without warning.


I agree with everything you're saying, especially since I live in w-space. But I just had to fix that to reflect a certain truth. My bold.


Ildus Hekx
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:49:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Ildus Hekx on 17/07/2011 22:51:07
It's time for people in wormhole space and in high sec to get together and form a real voting bloc for the next CSM election. Frankly, based on numbers alone you could take every seat if the player base is motivated. Further nerfing of exploration or wormhole exploitation kills part of the fun in playing EVE for me. And I won't stand for it without some kind of fight... The views of too few have been touted for too long as the direction EVE should chart.

People rioted in Jita over NEX rumors. You've got game shifting facts here...


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