open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Ignorance is Bliss, A 0.0 Wormhole Comparison.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Author Topic

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:29:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Ruiryu on 17/07/2011 14:48:07
Warning this is a little bit of a long read, and instead of posting it in 30 different threads and several forums it's all going here.


In recent weeks the CSM and CCP has come under fire from some of the player base regarding the possible changes to come, and the stance that the CSM has taken. This is primarily based around the ABC ores of EVE-Online, and 0.0 dwellers finding a way to keep their space the best space. Iím going to assume a large level of ignorance here as that is what is being shown on many forums. Those who are arguing this has only recently come to learn some the mechanics of wormholes, and from what Iíve seen they have learned it from people replying to them.

Now then, Iím going to argue my side. But to do this Iím going to lay down a little background on myself. Iím no new comer to the game. Iíve been in many of the wars, sometimes behind the scenes sometimes on front lines. Iíve done the 0.0 politics and run around. Iíve spent my dues in Empire. But most recently Iíve been spending my time in wormhole space.

My first message to those who are arguing for the removal of the ABCís of ores out of wormhole space, or to restrict them to C5-C6 with the possibility of C4 is this. The restriction of these ores to those C-levels is unrealistic. Why you might ask? Well the main argument floating for taking them out of the C1-C3 is that they have access to high security space. Well some do, but these systems are much like the bottle neck systems entering low security space or 0.0 (example Y-MPWL or even HED-GP). These systems are traffic hubs and make great spots for PVP to take place. If people are mining in these systems they are essentially taking some of the greatest risk in EVE to accomplish mining. Correct me if Iím wrong but people are arguing the ďRisk to RewardĒ factor. To continue here before I move on I want to add that wormholes also donít have true static connections. Just because you know you will connect to high security space doesnít mean itís always worthwhile. There are plenty of High Sec islands in the game along with terribly long travel distances to market hubs.

Iím going to touch on something here about wormhole connections as I did mention this a little already. Wormholes do not have a known-map. By this I mean you donít always know where you are going to connect or who is going to connect to you. This just adds to level of difficulty of what is wormhole space is and brings me to my next topic.

Logistics, the back bone of EVE, Love it or loathe it; it is what keeps everyone in 0.0 or Wormhole space going. The general thing Iíve been finding is that 0.0 people tend to think that itís a piece of cake, and why not? All you need to do is jump in and out thatís not hard. Well to inform those who have this notion of thought I want you to stop and read carefully here. General 0.0 dwellers have little to no knowledge of their ships weight other then it dictates the amount of Liquid Ozone the jump bridge is going to use to transport them from point A to point B. In wormhole space when doing logistics of any scale of importance you have to take into account.

The mass of all your ships
ē The amount of mass the wormhole is going to allow passage of, each wormhole can be different, this can be extremely limiting on the number of support you're bring for protection or the amount of goodies you take to market. You must also take into account if you didnít find said wormhole first you have no idea how much damage has been done. You must account for this also. Will the Wormhole support your return trip? How many times have you 0.0 dwellers went to move a fleet via jump bridges only to find out another group of people used up all the Liquid Ozone earlier and only half your fleet gets to make the jump? In wormholes we donít get the options of taking regular gates to meet back up. We ARE separated and this alone can cause some serious risk moving those precious ABC ores you seem so hung up on.


Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:31:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Ruiryu on 17/07/2011 14:57:24
Time! This is just as important or equally so to the mass. Are you going to have enough time to run your goods out and then get back in? Again are you the first to find this wormhole?


ē No local. We are blind and every op has more planning and prep put into time then your typically 0.0 one. Wormhole dwellers run through potentially hostile space every time, and do not have the luxury of by passing those gate camps with a cyno-jump or Titan bridge.

For logistics into 0.0 Space your biggest worry is a possible gank attempt. But this is easily remedied by having scouts, and watching local. The argument that wormhole dwellers can scout too is rather irrelevant as you arenít able to see who is in local, and their numbers. There could be a large covert ops fleet just waiting for you and you canít be any the wiser to this. Alternatively 0.0 dwellers can set up a cyno-chain at friendly POSí or even in a remote dead system. They can then comfortably jump freighter load after load of goods in and out at their own pleasure. Iíve done this so much that I donít even want to begin to think of it.

The next argument that seemingly comes up in all threads is that 0.0 should be better for the ABC ores. Well it is 100% better in 0.0. Stop, take a breath, I know that last sentence just caused several people to develop a twitch, implode, or spontaneously go up in flames. Before this happens to you just remember to breath. Excellent! If you are still reading this you have managed survive, moving on. In your heads the question is why and how is 0.0 better? Well first off your sites are there every day, wormholes once in a while you get one and when you do you have a limited amount of time to do it. In 0.0 they also IMPROVE the mining with the Sov-System that is in place. You can mine with impunity, and have the peace of mind of knowing when someone has entered your system. You also likely have numerous channels of Intel telling you that you have XYZ coming down the pipe, giving you ample of time to get out of the way. Wormhole dwellers are interesting in this aspect. They are going to be psychotically pressing d-scan to the point that they are getting messages that they have to wait before they can d-scan again. And to add in terms here this is a very last minute warning in comparison.

Next argument Iíve seen a lot of is the refine rates. Refining in wormholes is well terrible; in 0.0 a station gives a much better return. So guess what? This argument is rather obvious and there shouldnít be any debate. If you are one of those people debating the issue that refining is irrelevant or that itís just fine for wormholes please donít bother debating this issue period. Refining at a POS is just useless, unless! Itís Ice products and there isnít any of that in wormhole space. So moving on.

Iím going to tie all of this together here as this is starting to get longer then I had originally intended. Finally Iím going to talk about the uses of the minerals, the effects on the market and why 0.0 is actually terrible for mining. So first up, from experience the only time any kind of mining Iíve done or my corp has done was when we needed ships or ammo in the wormhole, these ships are typically capital ships. But truth be told here there arenít enough low ends typically and you are stuck importing titanium and so on. So what has been going on now is that we just buy the capitals and move them in because to move in a capital requires less work and is easier than doing the logistics of building it. There has been the occasion where corp-mates have done mining out of sheer boredom. Issue then is getting it out and to market and trust me no one wanted to move it. Even when moving to a new wormhole, all of that got jettisoned into space because moving it is too much of a head ache and it isnít worth the time.


Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:33:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Ruiryu on 17/07/2011 15:14:07
The effects on the market and why 0.0 sucks for mining is one in the same really, the simple answer to that are ďpoliticsĒ. Guess what 0.0 dwellers you have dug your own grave here. Your treatment of people who would be industrialists in your corporation/alliance just isnít going to put up with the political bull ****, and this discussion just proves this point. "Why and how dare you! You donít live in 0.0 you have no idea what you are talking about!" you might say. Yes I do know what Iím talking about here, stop and listen. No one is going to pay you 2-3 billion to use a good system to mine in, and then be expected to refine in your stations and lose some minerals as well. Thatís the renter situation, why should you benefit twice of their labour? This cut in their profits is what has had them move to wormholes to find another solution to the problem. In the case they arenít renting the system, the issue quickly becomes that they donít receive any respect with in the corp or alliance. They are constantly being hounded to be going on PVP ops or have a Call to Arms. They are expected to build capitals for damn near free, with the reason of ďWell we protect these systems for you to mine inĒ. Mean while the alliance is off somewhere else trying to claim new regions of space, or just having their PVP fill of fun.

The short answer is 0.0 is fine itís working as intended. It is you the alliance leaders that are breaking things. You are making your own space undesirable with your politics and general BS. These players have found a way to make money without having large alliances screw them over. Guess what the problem is, it is you not the game. You are the problem with it. The fact you want everyone working for you and your goal. Industrialist have no problem helping as long as they arenít always getting the short end of the stick, and they have been getting this for far too long. They have found a solution to this problem and it doesnít involve you, your politics, or having to pay some RMTing overlord for use of a system. They have boldly moved on to green pastures where they can carve some space of their own. The effects on the market you are seeing is the actual mining force of eve getting to do what they love to do. They are providing cheap ships for you to fly in and have all your PVP jollies. The only whinnying the 0.0 folk have is those who use a little mining on the side to feed their need for PVP. These people would typically and would likely prefer to mine in 0.0 though, I have no doubt about that. But only if you fixed the above listed issues.

The CSM are one track minded on this topic and seem to be blissfully ignorant. In closing all I have to say is that you made your bed, you sleep in it. This mineral issue of ABC and their value is your own doing, not broken mechanics of the game. Itís the broken politics of the alliances in control of the space that provides access to these minerals. Alliances are getting too fat for their own good. They are searching for ways to support owning several regions that is also breaking themselves (example: Delve, I don't see one entity living there in full control for a long time). People are still trying to play the game the same way they did years ago before the sov changes. You are renting space to keep things going. But when people stop wanting to deal with you, you expect your regions to get a boost so you can keep going on the same way. The saying ďadapt or dieĒ is rather fitting for the situation you are in now as the the whole dying thing seem to be quite prevalent currently. But your form of adapting is rather sad. You get your people into the CSM to push forward issues you see blindly, the issues arenít the game the issues are you.

Edit and side notes here
This image a rather accurate depiction of the current EVE
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2396/684eb4.jpg
Secondly I have respect for "two step", he might be the only one on the CSM that can understand this.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:35:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Jack Tronic on 17/07/2011 05:35:54

Like I said in other topics, they just want to eliminate competition to their bots. Sooner or later they'll demand sleeper sites in null. Can't wait for the great winter of nerfs.

OHU812
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:39:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jack Tronic
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 17/07/2011 05:35:54

Like I said in other topics, they just want to eliminate competition to their bots. Sooner or later they'll demand sleeper sites in null. Can't wait for the great winter of nerfs.



+1

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:42:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Digital Messiah on 17/07/2011 05:45:55
Originally by: OHU812
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 17/07/2011 05:35:54

Like I said in other topics, they just want to eliminate competition to their bots. Sooner or later they'll demand sleeper sites in null. Can't wait for the great winter of nerfs.



+1

+1=2

Also a wonderful and easy read. Considering the size that it is Wink. And I agree completely, alliances use up their miners or they choose to bot. I have had a lot of personal experience getting screwed by alliance / corp mates while mining. Everyone is trying to make a quick buck. Or the CEO of the largest corp is spewing forth talk like he is Stalin, while amounting a hideous fortune on the side.

Fix the super capital issue and the need for minerals will go up. Increasing their worth considerably.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:48:00 - [7]
 

I'll repost what I just wrote in the old thread about this:

---
Having listened to the fireside chat, it briefly touched something that makes this thing make a little bit more sense, but I got the impression that some of the CSM guys interpreted it wrong.

Maybe I got it wrong, but someone mentioned that the data suggested that Class 3 and Class 4 wormholes were pulling out large amounts of ABC. That makes a lot of sense to me, because those backend systems are relatively safe from a PvP perspective, and sleeper rats are quite easy to clear.
Established settlers can mine a lot of ore from these holes, but those are by no means daytrippers jumping in from Jita. Those are people that have to fight to hold their systems and keep them safe, in many ways the same that Empire null-sec people do. But even then the ABC available from these systems must be miniscule amounts compared to empire null.

Class 1 and Class 2 systems are quite different. They are much more dangerous from a small scale pvp perspective and they only have minor amounts of high-end ore. It's possible to daytrip class 1 and class 2 holes, but it is by no means a profitable endeavour, and I very much doubt they contribute much to the influx of ore.


So is it even important to have ABC in wormholes? From an economic perspective probably not, but it is a good conflict driver and w-space would be a more boring place for everyone without it.
---

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:48:00 - [8]
 

I also forgot to mention this in a drunken state, sorry for the spelling/ grammar issues. I blame The Kraken and coke. But also I realized I forgot to mention that not all C1-C4 have static highsecs, so get static low, or even 0.0 so these systems aren't always great.

OHU812
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:53:00 - [9]
 

Anyone have the statistics of 0.0 ABCs flooding the market? Maybe in the bot regions? I mean.. can't you keep those things running 23/7?

Lets see some stats here on both sides why don't we?

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:54:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jack Tronic on 17/07/2011 05:54:06
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
I'll repost what I just wrote in the old thread about this:

---
Having listened to the fireside chat, it briefly touched something that makes this thing make a little bit more sense, but I got the impression that some of the CSM guys interpreted it wrong.

Maybe I got it wrong, but someone mentioned that the data suggested that Class 3 and Class 4 wormholes were pulling out large amounts of ABC. That makes a lot of sense to me, because those backend systems are relatively safe from a PvP perspective, and sleeper rats are quite easy to clear.
Established settlers can mine a lot of ore from these holes, but those are by no means daytrippers jumping in from Jita. Those are people that have to fight to hold their systems and keep them safe, in many ways the same that Empire null-sec people do. But even then the ABC available from these systems must be miniscule amounts compared to empire null.

Class 1 and Class 2 systems are quite different. They are much more dangerous from a small scale pvp perspective and they only have minor amounts of high-end ore. It's possible to daytrip class 1 and class 2 holes, but it is by no means a profitable endeavour, and I very much doubt they contribute much to the influx of ore.


So is it even important to have ABC in wormholes? From an economic perspective probably not, but it is a good conflict driver and w-space would be a more boring place for everyone without it.
---


Class 3s and 4s are where many people tend to carebear more hardcore than others. Why? It's the classes you can get to better sites but without the threat of invading capitals in c5s and c6s.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:01:00 - [11]
 

I just occupied a wormhole (class 3 static lowsec U210) for four days, and had some fun. Between two friends, we pulled a billion ISK out of there. But it was mostly in sleeper sites. We did mine a little, and I think we would up with about 20k Arkonor. It net about 140 mil, which was nothing to write home about.

As somebody who enjoys occasionally doing different things, I believe restricting ABC to 0.0/C4/5/6 is a poor move when you consider the risk that wormhole space brings. Diving into a hole is a very demanding task. It requires dedication, support, logistics and most of all experience. For them to be nerfed is almost like a slap in the face to players who CHOOSE not to occupy 0.0 because they don't want to be a part of a circlejerk.

Honestly, get over yourselves 0.0 holders and let the little guys have some fun, too. You get stations to dock in. W-space does not.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:10:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I just occupied a wormhole (class 3 static lowsec U210) for four days, and had some fun. Between two friends, we pulled a billion ISK out of there. But it was mostly in sleeper sites. We did mine a little, and I think we would up with about 20k Arkonor. It net about 140 mil, which was nothing to write home about.

As somebody who enjoys occasionally doing different things, I believe restricting ABC to 0.0/C4/5/6 is a poor move when you consider the risk that wormhole space brings. Diving into a hole is a very demanding task. It requires dedication, support, logistics and most of all experience. For them to be nerfed is almost like a slap in the face to players who CHOOSE not to occupy 0.0 because they don't want to be a part of a circlejerk.

Honestly, get over yourselves 0.0 holders and let the little guys have some fun, too. You get stations to dock in. W-space does not.


+1

W-space is a very different and unique experience, that mostly works well. The rewards can be very good but the effort and risk match it as one of the few places in EvE.

Some of CSM members clearly don't care much about W-space, but considering the sorry state of some parts of EvE, please don't try to work to break this little oasis as well.


Sure W-space does have issues, I can make a long list of things that could be fixed, balance issues, practical problems etc. But in large it is a relatively successful part of EvE.

OHU812
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:11:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

Honestly, get over yourselves 0.0 holders and let the little guys have some fun, too. You get stations to dock in. W-space does not.


They don't want you to have fun. They want you in their 0.0 space cta mining/pvp ops with your monthly subscription. That way they can have their shiny ships and monocles while you're mining.

It's not been about the single player for a long time. It's about corraling you into a corp or bigger alliance so you can be their slave.

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:14:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ruiryu on 17/07/2011 06:14:44
Also this forgot to add it in earlier.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2396/684eb4.jpg

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:16:00 - [15]
 

rofl who mines ABC ores in WH space? Please post here. Please say you mine.

Because I know only 2 in my corp, and they only do it for the fullerene reactions.


I don't know the reasons behind CCP/CSM wanting to nerf them, and I don't care.

But with sleepers and Fullerenes....who really cares about the ores? lol

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:20:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
rofl who mines ABC ores in WH space? Please post here. Please say you mine.

Because I know only 2 in my corp, and they only do it for the fullerene reactions.


I don't know the reasons behind CCP/CSM wanting to nerf them, and I don't care.

But with sleepers and Fullerenes....who really cares about the ores? lol


Next thing you know, they'll claim a Fullerenes faucet killing the null market.

OHU812
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:21:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: OHU812 on 17/07/2011 06:22:46
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Originally by: Jackson Millenius
rofl who mines ABC ores in WH space? Please post here. Please say you mine.

Because I know only 2 in my corp, and they only do it for the fullerene reactions.


I don't know the reasons behind CCP/CSM wanting to nerf them, and I don't care.

But with sleepers and Fullerenes....who really cares about the ores? lol


Next thing you know, they'll claim a Fullerenes faucet killing the null market.



^^THIS^^

as it has happened numerous times in the past when 0.0 holders started complaining about how mistreated they were.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:22:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
rofl who mines ABC ores in WH space? Please post here. Please say you mine.

Because I know only 2 in my corp, and they only do it for the fullerene reactions.


I don't know the reasons behind CCP/CSM wanting to nerf them, and I don't care.

But with sleepers and Fullerenes....who really cares about the ores? lol

Imagine you're in a corporation of people who have varied talents. You have the die-hard PVPers, the self-proclaimed mining gods, the glossy-eyed explorers and the avid mission runners.

Between that group alone, you can tackle just about any site in a wormhole. So you find a wormhole that is unoccupied and has thirty or so sites/anomalies and you get to crackin. Once your explorers have scanned down all the sites, your missioners are clearing sleepers out of anomalies and various other sites like radars, magnetos and the warp-in grav/ladars. Meanwhile your PVPers are setting up bubbles on the various wormholes and screwing around looking for random targets to gank and your miners are snoring away blasting the rich rocks that the belts contain. Some are even sat in gas belts to let nothing go to waste.

There are a lot of people who play EVE, and not everybody has each skill in their repertoire. A corporation of friends who are in the game together to have fun (which is what MMOs are about) can easily find plenty to do in a wormhole if they are all from different walks of EVE. Take some of those reasons to go into a wormhole away, and you will quickly find it a wasteland as desolate as lowsec.

Lex Starwalker
Amarr
Lone Star Exploration
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:31:00 - [19]
 

+1

Well said!

Ruiryu
Caldari
Gray Rogue Squadron
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:38:00 - [20]
 

Ok I've started sobering up a little and read some of this over, I'll be doing some grammar fixes in the morning.

Also I don't mine, I can't stand mining. I'll do a little wormhole gas mining now and again. But I never keep it for myself. It goes to the corp to build stuff that I can buy at a reduced cost at some point. . . when I need stuff. . .

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:47:00 - [21]
 

Dam big alliance CEO's, YOU CAN TAKE OUR ABC'S, BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:59:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 17/07/2011 07:00:00
Originally by: OHU812

as it has happened numerous times in the past when 0.0 holders started complaining about how mistreated they were.


Null is mistreated imo, but that doesnt mean CCP should nerf wormhole space.

Quote:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2396/684eb4.jpg

Nice pic.

Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:05:00 - [23]
 

Wormhole ner***e screws the endgame for small corp/alliances.

Nullsec is the "big boy" territory. Your part of a large corp/alliance or you tithe to a large corp/alliance.

WH space is free for all. No sov, no cyno jammers. No predictable routes. Free for all, you take and hold (or lose) purely through strenghth of arms and/or tactics.

Nerf wormholes? **** NO....beef them up. Encourage folk to play in them. Revel in the fact that botting in wormholes IS suicide. Botting deep in cyno jammed space is just a licence to print/sell isk. Nobody gets away with afk mining in a wormhole.

Wormhole space is the best thing CCP have introduced into the game in the last couple of years. A place ANY corp can strike it big if they have balls. Nerfing it is a big middle finger to people who want to strike out on their own path.

Does CCP want to condone or condemn emergent gameplay? Or will they pander to the botting ****s in nullsec who cut off options to "join us, rent from us or die"

IM pretty much a carebear really, Ive lived in a WH then moved out. Changes to nullsec or WH space makes little difference to me aside from changing how I make profit.

Ill still argue against nerfing something that means nothing that means sod all to my bottom line purely because its
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

OHU812
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:08:00 - [24]
 

Hmmm... slap a beard on the guy in the picture like yours and you'd be twins.


**Keeping in order of the OP: +1

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:33:00 - [25]
 

You have a short version? There is no way I am reading 10k characters of what is probably a defensive whine (judging by title).

But let me guess (applying logic), you spent an entire caffeine cycle blabbing about access differences twixt null and worms Smile

If the purpose is make day-trippers lose viability then a doubling of belt spawns is much more appropriate.


Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:42:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: OHU812
Hmmm... slap a beard on the guy in the picture like yours and you'd be twins.


I wish lex luthor would grow a beard like me....hope springs eternal.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:00:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Lyrrashae on 17/07/2011 08:03:06
I couldn't agree more.

+111 for the OP, because he just won EVE.

W-space is the last bastion of the real EVE-Online experience, by the way: No local, no blues, no sov, no pipes, no blobs, no super-capitals, not bottable....No room for the alliance-kiddies.

It's EVE on "Normal"-mode, as far as I'm concerned.

Elaine Solarheart
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:10:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
rofl who mines ABC ores in WH space? Please post here. Please say you mine.

Because I know only 2 in my corp, and they only do it for the fullerene reactions.


I don't know the reasons behind CCP/CSM wanting to nerf them, and I don't care.

But with sleepers and Fullerenes....who really cares about the ores? lol


WE DO!

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:12:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Edited by: Digital Messiah on 17/07/2011 05:45:55
Originally by: OHU812
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 17/07/2011 05:35:54

Like I said in other topics, they just want to eliminate competition to their bots. Sooner or later they'll demand sleeper sites in null. Can't wait for the great winter of nerfs.



+1

+1=2

Also a wonderful and easy read. Considering the size that it is Wink. And I agree completely, alliances use up their miners or they choose to bot. I have had a lot of personal experience getting screwed by alliance / corp mates while mining. Everyone is trying to make a quick buck. Or the CEO of the largest corp is spewing forth talk like he is Stalin, while amounting a hideous fortune on the side.

Fix the super capital issue and the need for minerals will go up. Increasing their worth considerably.

+1=3

Kiran
Minmatar
Knights of Azrael
Anti-Social Outcast
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:24:00 - [30]
 

The removal of ABC ores from class 1-3 wormholes will kill off the small corps that call them home.

This is what the CSM are after.

I have lived in null sec and held sov, and its something I did not enjoy. I found everyone out there to be sociopaths who only wanted to grief and kill other players. There is no industry or research that goes on because to own BPO's in a pos or station that can be easily taken is pointless so everything has to shipped in from high sec at a massive price increase.

The CSM want to control all the ABC ore so no one in high sec can buy it from the guys in the wormholes so therefore giving them a manopoly control over the ore and the price ships will be built at.

But they always state risk vs reward?
It is far more risky to mine in a wormhole due to the lack of local and that you have to D-scan every minuet to make sure nothing changes. If it does then you need to be getting safe and swap ships for combat. Then you have the logistics of getting said ore back to high sec, or even refining it in the hole at a huge loss due to the ****ty refine efficency of the pos mods.

If they remove the ABC ores we should ask for the removal of local in null sec and low sec.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only