open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Jump Freighters time has come and gone.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic

Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Imminent Ruin
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:35:00 - [1]
 

It is time to get rid of these haxing ships. They do nothing but remove gate traffic. CCP started down the right path by removing multiple jump bridges in a system but did not finish the job.

No peace in New Eden... Long live the fighters...

Morganta
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:39:00 - [2]
 

no

get used to the idea that pvp does not happen exclusively on gates

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:40:00 - [3]
 

Oh, just heavily increase fuel cost. That should do it.

Q 5
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:47:00 - [4]
 

I love these lazy pilots, they want to be fed instead of having to work for a meal, I wish CCP would make it so I get 1,000,000,000,000 units of veldspar per cycle of my mining lasers too. Get to work stop tolling.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Oh, just heavily increase fuel cost. That should do it.


Great example of an easily adaptable and adoptable interim solution of the type rarely implemented.

If they wanted an isk sink that focussed on wealthier players, returning jump fuel to NPC sold status would also be a great idea (although some compensation to those PI guys who've focussed on that might be in order... maybe NPC buy orders for 6 months at trailing 6 months average price)

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:54:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 15/07/2011 16:00:24
Originally by: Atropos Kahn
It's time to remove any and all non-combat related entities in the game until all we can do is pelt each other with civvy guns in free rookie ships when there is nothing else left cuz that's the only kind of fun I want, or maybe I should just pick up Pong on an old Atari.


Fixed, Very Happy



Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Originally by: Akita T
Oh, just heavily increase fuel cost. That should do it.


Great example of an easily adaptable and adoptable interim solution of the type rarely implemented.

If they wanted an isk sink that focussed on wealthier players, returning jump fuel to NPC sold status would also be a great idea (although some compensation to those PI guys who've focussed on that might be in order... maybe NPC buy orders for 6 months at trailing 6 months average price)


(EDIT)
They would not redact an entire development project like that IMO, and you still have to mine the ice products as it is anyways.

However, I would be pretty stoked if they took Akita's suggestion AND increased the range just a smidge more and lowered production costs. I think the main reason they're so coddled and ninja'd around is that they're excessively expensive, if they cost around the order of a Rorqual you might see them misused or people taking greater risks with them. But at +4B, only an idiot would screw around with a JF in space, so you're rarely if ever going to see them used at gates except when the pilot is exiting to Empire even if CCP nerfed them into the ground as the OP so... trollingly suggests.

Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.07.15 15:56:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Atropos Kahn
It is time to get rid of these haxing ships. They do nothing but remove gate traffic. CCP started down the right path by removing multiple jump bridges in a system but did not finish the job.

No peace in New Eden... Long live the fighters...


* facepalms *

Bad idea is terribad crawl back under your rock pls.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Originally by: Akita T
Oh, just heavily increase fuel cost. That should do it.

Great example of an easily adaptable and adoptable interim solution of the type rarely implemented.
If they wanted an isk sink that focussed on wealthier players, returning jump fuel to NPC sold status would also be a great idea (although some compensation to those PI guys who've focussed on that might be in order... maybe NPC buy orders for 6 months at trailing 6 months average price)

I meant heavily increasing the quantity of fuel consumed per jump (which does increase transport cost two-fold : by increased jump cost and by reduced cargo space available on longer trips), not increasing the ISK price of one unit of fuel.

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:28:00 - [9]
 

4.5 Billion ISK ship jumping around that hold one third the the amount of a freighter.
And just like a freighter it can fit no modules, it can't be modified in any way.
And that doesn't even include what it is hauling

So 2 jump freighters is 9 bill ISk which is a bill short of a super carrier (although the prices have gone up)

I think that is pretty balanced.
You can't tell me it is risk free.
And they could be stopped by a frigate and destroyed.

That looks like a moving target to me, how easy do you want ??????

Oh wait you don't want to PvP you just want to kill things that can't fight back.
Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes

Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Imminent Ruin
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:37:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Atropos Kahn on 15/07/2011 17:40:00
My point is cargo. If you can jump 300k m3.... Then that reduces the need for people actually traveling through the systems. I don't care about trying to catch a Jump Freighter... They should just be removed from the game.

I remember a time, that if you wanted a drake in 0.0 you had to build it, jump it in a carrier, or fly it up from empire.

Each one of those requires people to move assists through space... Which in turn increases the chances for PVP. It's about the PVP.

It is too easy and too safe to move assets all over the map nowadays...

Firh
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:37:00 - [11]
 

In all honesty it's hard enough to seed 0.0 stations with equipment as it is.

I'd be all for revamping moons however, make moon mining just provide new and exclusive materials necessary for capital ship components. This way people would have to mine something other than just ice, physically controlling space would become important again.

Make lowsec profitable enough for players to risk getting blown up by pirates once in a while. Nerf highsec into oblivion but remove non-mutual highsec wars and nerf suicide ganking even further. Change a lot of high sec systems to lowsec ones, justify it by saying that the factions are no longer able to maintain security in all systems due to incursions and whatnot.

Also, make PvP less costly, increase module drop rate slightly and make implants on frozen corpses harvestable (by a skill) with a very small chance to drop those implants.

.. Essentially, put the players back in space again and make actually physically controlling it important.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:44:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 15/07/2011 17:44:54
Originally by: Atropos Kahn
Edited by: Atropos Kahn on 15/07/2011 17:40:00
My point is cargo. If you can jump 300k m3.... Then that reduces the need for people actually traveling through the systems. I don't care about trying to catch a Jump Freighter... They should just be removed from the game.

I remember a time, that if you wanted a drake in 0.0 you had to build it, jump it in a carrier, or fly it up from empire.

Each one of those requires people to move assists through space... Which in turn increases the chances for PVP. It's about the PVP.

It is too easy and too safe to move assets all over the map nowadays...


You just answered your own question, you are not concerned with the JFs themselves, you just want more people in ships up and down the pipes, but then you mention that people just jump them out in carriers anyways...

...so, what's the problem?

You really think CCP will remove all the capitals in the game with ship bays as well as JFs?

Have they ever removed an entire ship class before (besides special release stuff) or an entire line of ships (aka capitals) , ?

Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:45:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Atropos Kahn
I remember a time, that if you wanted a drake in 0.0 you had to build it, jump it in a carrier, or fly it up from empire.


I remember a time when Drakes didn't exist, you could tank Concord, jump gates sounded good, we had engine trails, I had WTZ bookmarks for entire regions, NPCs dropped ships logs which led to juicy Plexes etc etc

TL;DR= the past is not always better.

Besides, out of all the things wrong with this game at the moment, JFs are waaaaaay down the list.

Dalaohu
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:53:00 - [14]
 

Um, I do believe I very often see your corp moving jump freighters through the system I live in.


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:56:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Dalaohu
Um, I do believe I very often see your corp moving jump freighters through the system I live in.




+1

Damn son, I do believe you have won the internet today.
This is a shocking development, indeed! Shocked

Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:59:00 - [16]
 

Look at all this CCP Dev-alts posting here, preparing the next big nerf by asking for it on the forums and then claiming that it was wished by the "community".

Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:03:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Ultim8Evil on 15/07/2011 18:03:50
nm

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:04:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Look at all this CCP Dev-alts posting here, preparing the next big nerf by asking for it on the forums and then claiming that it was wished by the "community".


My god you're a genius.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:13:00 - [19]
 

nerfing/reworking jumpfreighters is the answer to null-sec industrialization.

Clavian Voi
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:15:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Atropos Kahn
It is time to get rid of these haxing ships. They do nothing but remove gate traffic. CCP started down the right path by removing multiple jump bridges in a system but did not finish the job.

No peace in New Eden... Long live the fighters...


Oh yes, that's what EVE needs. Let's remove some more options to make gameplay even more tedious and predictable. Rolling Eyes

Let me guess, you came up with this plan while sitting bored on a gatecamp pondering the best way to force more people into your "PvP" trap.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Oh, just heavily increase fuel cost. That should do it.


this

Callduron
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:28:00 - [22]
 

The problem with easy logistics from Empire is that it kills nullsec for anyone who isn't a pvper. Pvpers don't need other player types, certainly not miners and industrialists, they can just shoot a few rats then place an order with the Jump Freighter guy.

The problem with having no industrialists out in nullsec building Rifters and Ravens is a somewhat unsatisfactory industrial game. You see the end game for industrialists is building the big ships. But because you develop as an industrialist in Empire you will never be in a position where some nullsec corp goes "hey dude, you're good at building, here's some ore, make us a titan".

So the top level of the industrialist game is done not as fun for an industrialist player but as a chore for a pvp veteran's alt.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:33:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Callduron
The problem with easy logistics from Empire is that it kills nullsec for anyone who isn't a pvper. Pvpers don't need other player types, certainly not miners and industrialists, they can just shoot a few rats then place an order with the Jump Freighter guy.

The problem with having no industrialists out in nullsec building Rifters and Ravens is a somewhat unsatisfactory industrial game. You see the end game for industrialists is building the big ships. But because you develop as an industrialist in Empire you will never be in a position where some nullsec corp goes "hey dude, you're good at building, here's some ore, make us a titan".

So the top level of the industrialist game is done not as fun for an industrialist player but as a chore for a pvp veteran's alt.


Wait, so you want logistics through 0.0 to be harder and discernibly more susceptible to PvP, but to also encourage builders to haul expensive stuff out to 0.0 in droves?

Viribus
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.07.15 19:18:00 - [24]
 

Why are all these brilliant "balancing" suggestions by people that live in and make money in highsec and just come to null/low sec entry systems to PVP, then come up with ideas to have kills delivered to them on a silver platter?

It's like these dribblers have never had to actually live in nullsec or anything.

clamslayer
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:00:00 - [25]
 

I agree that changes need to be made to the cost of fuel. It should be very expensive to jump cargo to 0.0. I miss seeing the obelisk convoys through low sec to 0.0 with escorts.

Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Imminent Ruin
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:18:00 - [26]
 

Ok...

Jump Freighter pilot buys 30 drakes in Jita... Jumps his cyno chain from high sec to 0.0 .... Takes him 5 jumps... His 0.0 Corp luvz on him.

Remove jump freighter... Corpie jumps 4 drakes in is carrier from low sec to 0.0... Takes 8 round trips .... Carrier pilot is a sad panda...

Or... 30 drake pilots fly from high sec to 0.0 flying the 36 jumps it takes to get to 0.0 home system... Like the old dayz


Bad for 30 drake pilots, but funz for the 30,0000 other players online...


Getting people in space doing things equals PVP.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:45:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Jack Tronic on 15/07/2011 21:51:54
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 15/07/2011 21:49:23
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 15/07/2011 21:47:35
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 15/07/2011 21:47:08
Originally by: Atropos Kahn
Ok...

Jump Freighter pilot buys 30 drakes in Jita... Jumps his cyno chain from high sec to 0.0 .... Takes him 5 jumps... His 0.0 Corp luvz on him.

Remove jump freighter... Corpie jumps 4 drakes in is carrier from low sec to 0.0... Takes 8 round trips .... Carrier pilot is a sad panda...

Or... 30 drake pilots fly from high sec to 0.0 flying the 36 jumps it takes to get to 0.0 home system... Like the old dayz


Bad for 30 drake pilots, but funz for the 30,0000 other players online...


Getting people in space doing things equals PVP.


You do realize these JFs are EXTREMELY VULNERABLE right? With a suicide dread + cyno cov ops alt, you can web, scram the jf when it jumps to a pos outside shields, siege the dread(2 volleys from a phoenix citadel torps == dead jf) and nuke it before it even manages to load grid. Self destruct the dread and you get 70% of it's cost back. While the JF only gets like 2 isk. Not to mention you just got a 4bil killmail MINIMUM.

Also a super cap can do the same thing without suiciding because POSes cannot tackle them and you barely have to worry about tackle because fighter bombers will volley it before it manages to warp or get in shields.

There are often forms of PVP besides DNS gate camp blobbing all day you know. Let people like xMartok have their fun(see eve-kill history on him http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=100048)

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:54:00 - [28]
 

JF appear to be rarer that Giant Pandas at the moment anyway ..

I expect they'll become increasingly expensive and exclusive.

Which wouldn't be great.

All we need are smaller combat jump drive fitted hulls which have the capacity to scan down, acquire and lock on to a jump target and over-take it by virtue of mass to ambush at destination a-la-elite.

Its really coming to the point now where EvE needs jump drives to largely supercede gate travel - and effective means to enact pvp situations in conjunction with fuel requirements/skills should make jump ships incredibly expensive and extremely risky. As they are supposed to be.

Ricardo Gonzalo Montalban
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:58:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Look at all this CCP Dev-alts posting here, preparing the next big nerf by asking for it on the forums and then claiming that it was wished by the "community".


My god you're a genius.


Exactly

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:59:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ricardo Gonzalo Montalban
Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Look at all this CCP Dev-alts posting here, preparing the next big nerf by asking for it on the forums and then claiming that it was wished by the "community".


My god you're a genius.


Exactly


I am not a CCP dev alt. Honest.

Also. Jump drives have no margin of error do they? Which I always thought was tarded. It really shouldn't be a precise science. Where's the mis-jumps/scatter/plox quotient in jumping? Sucks.


Pages: [1] 2 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only