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Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:23:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Kalle Demos on 15/07/2011 16:34:41
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How does this affect your NC agenda


Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.


Is this your opinion or the mittens that pulls your strings opinion?

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:24:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Mya ElleTerego
You have to either need the minerals to actually use for your corp manufacturing in the WH for logistics reasons, or your a complete moron if mining minerals is why you crawled into a wormhole. The absolute, near 24/7 safety that null sec, sov upgrade grav belts provide is the only place to mine for a non total noob / idiot.


They flat out know that wormholes aren't a real threat to their bot-mining in null sec. That's why they don't have the nuts to come here and counter any of their fallacious arguments.

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:26:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Why do you want to nerf WHs?


Because they can't hide in, too many monkeys and not enough bananas Laughing

Haulie Berry
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:38:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Haulie Berry on 15/07/2011 16:38:40
Quote:
I personally am not arguing in favor or removing the ABC ore from WH, I was just making an interesting observation.

Namely:

The conclusion made by some that nobody mines in WH space is obviously false..


You're arguing a non-point here.

The assertion is not that "nobody mines in WH space".

The assertion is that "nobody (which is really just a brief way of saying, "a not-significant number of people") goes to wormholes to mine for minerals to bring to market".

WH corps mine in wormholes and then use the minerals acquired to build in the WHs, because it's easier than dealing with the logistical nightmare of bringing outside minerals in.

The suggestion to remove them pretty clearly flies in the face of the whole "risk Vs. reward" thing that is (or used to be, it seems) paramount to Eve.

Gaylord BentwickSmyth
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:17:00 - [35]
 

nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec

Yeah, that must have come as a real surprise seeing as wspace has been around for more than two years now. In that two years, those numb-skulls claiming to represent all EVE players, have not bothered to learn or read anythingabout a part of the game which is now integral.

Shame on you CSM nullsec noobs, two years of ignorance about an obvious and out-there part of the game means you are not fit for purpose and you are unrepresentative. Thank lordy there were some CSM folks who have a clue.

Shame on you too for your silly, self-interested, uninformed, knee jerk reactions and the changes you seem to support.


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:06:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 18:06:51
Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth
nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec

Yeah, that must have come as a real surprise seeing as wspace has been around for more than two years now. In that two years, those numb-skulls claiming to represent all EVE players, have not bothered to learn or read anythingabout a part of the game which is now integral.

Shame on you CSM nullsec noobs, two years of ignorance about an obvious and out-there part of the game means you are not fit for purpose and you are unrepresentative. Thank lordy there were some CSM folks who have a clue.

Shame on you too for your silly, self-interested, uninformed, knee jerk reactions and the changes you seem to support.




Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex.

Can you tell me off the top of your head the necessary components and steps that go into your best chance of success for inventing a Pilgrim BPC?

Can you tell me the most effective fit for a dual prop Dramiel, and why?

Can you tell me specifically which systems are the best ones to farm Gurista's rats and which ships are best for it?

Can you tell me which Epic Arc missions are the most lucurative, and why?

My point is, there are area's that each CSM delegate has an excellent depth of knowledge in, and area's that they do not. That would be why we have more than one.

@Haulie Berry

You are correct, which would explain the rest of my post, as well as my other posts. Smile

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:32:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Edited by: Kalle Demos on 15/07/2011 16:34:41
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How does this affect your NC agenda


Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.


Is this your opinion or the mittens that pulls your strings opinion?


Simply the facts Kalle, its also likely they did it just to troll you and others like you. Wink

Cydori
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:35:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Cydori on 15/07/2011 18:36:53
The CSM is a mess. It's generally pretty disorganized and hamstrung by a lack of agreement over what its core function even is. And like all bureaucracies it's primary function seems to be to perpetuate its own existence and to act as a vehicle to get perks for its members. Hell, half the CSM members don't even play EVE on a regular basis; they're just in it for the virtual politics and forum warfare.

But this is okay. Watching people like Mittanni flail around impotently while trying to convince the rest of us that the CSM is effectively engaging with CCP and making significant "progress" is a continual source of amusement.

Fear the day when the CSM is actually organized, focused, and its positions given real credence by CCP. Efficient governments are almost always tyrannies of the worst sort, and people like Mittanni have a lot of experience with virtual tyranny.

The CSM is a joke. Let us hope it stays that way.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:46:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 18:06:51
Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth
nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec

Yeah, that must have come as a real surprise seeing as wspace has been around for more than two years now. In that two years, those numb-skulls claiming to represent all EVE players, have not bothered to learn or read anythingabout a part of the game which is now integral.

Shame on you CSM nullsec noobs, two years of ignorance about an obvious and out-there part of the game means you are not fit for purpose and you are unrepresentative. Thank lordy there were some CSM folks who have a clue.

Shame on you too for your silly, self-interested, uninformed, knee jerk reactions and the changes you seem to support.




Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex.

Can you tell me off the top of your head the necessary components and steps that go into your best chance of success for inventing a Pilgrim BPC?

Can you tell me the most effective fit for a dual prop Dramiel, and why?

Can you tell me specifically which systems are the best ones to farm Gurista's rats and which ships are best for it?

Can you tell me which Epic Arc missions are the most lucurative, and why?

My point is, there are area's that each CSM delegate has an excellent depth of knowledge in, and area's that they do not. That would be why we have more than one.

@Haulie Berry

You are correct, which would explain the rest of my post, as well as my other posts. Smile


If there's something you don't know, shouldn't you gain some knowledge about it before screaming for it to be nerfed? Gee, there's ABC in wormholes? Take it away! My bots are sad!

Kerah Yahr
Amarr
Corus Industries
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:53:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Kerah Yahr on 15/07/2011 19:00:26
Originally by: Ranger 1

Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth
nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec


Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex.



I agree that Eve is big and complex. I'm just not so sure about someone calling for nerfs on something they don't even know the basics about.
I don't know about anyone else, but spending 2 seconds in WHS, seeing the '0.0' constantly being displayed on the upper-left part of the screen is a dead giveaway that it's null. But Eve is complex, I could be wrong.

[Edit] I realize that they may not have even been into W-space at all. My opinion still stands, why ask to change something that you don't know anything about.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 19:50:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Kerah Yahr
Edited by: Kerah Yahr on 15/07/2011 19:00:26
Originally by: Ranger 1

Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth
nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec


Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex.



I agree that Eve is big and complex. I'm just not so sure about someone calling for nerfs on something they don't even know the basics about.
I don't know about anyone else, but spending 2 seconds in WHS, seeing the '0.0' constantly being displayed on the upper-left part of the screen is a dead giveaway that it's null. But Eve is complex, I could be wrong.

[Edit] I realize that they may not have even been into W-space at all. My opinion still stands, why ask to change something that you don't know anything about.


Just as an fyi... in wormholes it's -1.0, not 0.0.

Ein Phantom
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:18:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: White Tree

Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.


THANKS FOR THE RATIONAL DISCUSSION

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:20:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How does this affect your NC agenda


Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.


It's comforting to know that we're being represented by someone with this capacity for rational, well-reasoned debate.

Neutral

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:38:00 - [44]
 

There is a lot of things that should be tweaked in WH space, but removing gravmetric sites is not one of them.

They definitely need to get rid of the customs in PI however.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:10:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 15/07/2011 21:10:20
Originally by: Karash Amerius


They definitely need to get rid of the customs in PI however.


Agreed, it makes no sense to have them. Customs offices in WH space (or maybe even 0.0) need to be replaced by a special PI launch reception ship or something.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:45:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 15/07/2011 21:44:57
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How does this affect your NC agenda


Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.


It's comforting to know that we're being represented by someone with this capacity for rational, well-reasoned debate.

Neutral


I think we can all agree this is why CSM should never have been made in the first place, if CCP want to talk to players, they can use a bloody forum or email, since that's what they are for.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:49:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
If CCP want to talk to players, they can use a bloody forum or email, since that's what they are for.


True, but CCP doesn't give a rat's ass about the players. That's why they pretend that one goon (Touborg) agreeing to do whatever another goon, Gianturdo (aka Mittens) tells him to do in exchange for PR cover is 'talking to the players.'

Elder Man
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.15 21:56:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How does this affect your NC agenda


Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.



Of coarse there's an "agenda". If you say you don't do things that favor your alliance, your a liar. Doesn't mean you don't do other things, but don't blow smoke up folks' arse's with "we don't do stuff like that" . You might fool some of the younger, less experienced in the worldly ways, but you don't fool us old guys.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.15 22:07:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 22:11:28
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 22:10:19
Originally by: Kerah Yahr
Edited by: Kerah Yahr on 15/07/2011 19:00:26
Originally by: Ranger 1

Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth
nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec


Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex.



I agree that Eve is big and complex. I'm just not so sure about someone calling for nerfs on something they don't even know the basics about.
I don't know about anyone else, but spending 2 seconds in WHS, seeing the '0.0' constantly being displayed on the upper-left part of the screen is a dead giveaway that it's null. But Eve is complex, I could be wrong.

[Edit] I realize that they may not have even been into W-space at all. My opinion still stands, why ask to change something that you don't know anything about.


That would probably explain why the decision was made to get hard data to determine whether there was a problem worth worrying about to begin with. Wink

There is zero harm in asking if something has become a problem. There is only harm if you assume there is and proceed without knowing the facts.

It is VERY likely that they will decide the amount of minerals exiting WH space is negligible, but that decision will be based on facts rather than your conjecture or on mine... which is as it should be.

The only reason I can see where it might be done anyway would be if it is part of a larger overhaul of resource distribution in the game, but that is pure speculation.

By the way, I can see that there was some surprise that WH space was considered to be part of null sec. In many ways it is it's own beast, with it's own stripes. If WH space is going to be put under the same umbrella as traditional null sec when it comes to it's mineral distribution in future redistribution tweaking, this has ramifications we may not be fully aware of yet.

The point is, just because something is brought up for discussion is not a cause for mindless panic and outrage.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.07.15 22:18:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
The point is, just because something is brought up for discussion is not a cause for mindless panic and outrage.


Kinda like P2W and nerfing jumpbridges and removing anomalies?

rofflesausage
Posted - 2011.07.15 22:24:00 - [51]
 

Move all ABC ores to WH's.

No rats in belts, no local, much much harder to gather intel, no naps as you never know what WH is going to connect to you tomorrow....

MORE REWARDS FOR THE PROS

Jimmy Duce
Chaotic Tranquility
Posted - 2011.07.15 22:25:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How does this affect your NC agenda


Maybe there never was an NC agenda?

Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong.



Fine, but why nerf WHs? ABCs belong in 0.0 and IIRC scannable low sec, WH space is 0.0


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