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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Posted - 2011.07.16 23:00:00 - [31]

I strongly suggest you don't draw attention of CCP to us miners. They have already taken the sound from our mining lasers and don't appear to want to give it back to us. More ore being mined will indeed reduce profit which is a bad thing all round.
On the other hand some more 'eye candy' that does not increase mining yield would go down very nicely. I favour the 'Yuh' Minmatar Industrial transport vessel with advertising hoardings for Quafe etc down the sides. It was a runner up in one of the ship contests not so long ago. Or the Interbus vessel from the last contest. Smile

Posted - 2011.07.17 04:28:00 - [32]

I wouldn't mind capital ice harvester/strip miners to fit on orca/rorq maybe even t2 versions of those also being able to fit labs/manufacturing slots on a ship would be interesting but other then bigger cargo or other features shouldn't mine more/faster then a hulk

Gans Bracha
Posted - 2011.07.17 21:34:00 - [33]

Originally by: Velicitia
You sound young/new to the game Mey...

The only other way to make mining more profitable is having a higher demand

No, you can also reduce availability, introducing scarcity.

Cassiopeia Andromedae
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:13:00 - [34]

Capital mining ship, OK if it's true capital ship and can't access highsec. I'm fine with that. Bot's can be hunted down.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.18 19:42:00 - [35]

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 18/07/2011 19:44:54

more skills? good idea.

cap miners.. maybe not.

I would like to see more added for industry to do. More types of mining, more types of minerals, with detailed and complicated use for all the new and old minerals.

solar plasma mining...
comet havesting...
anti-matter and dark-matter collection...
more typs of grav sites with rare minerals that you have to coax from the rocks with a complcated maybe dangerous farming process...

speaking of farming, why not add terrarium bubble type botanical farming to the industrial mix for pos's...

..and I do like the idea of a t3 miner - just not something that mines better than a hulk - instead, something with a purpose not in the game yet..say a dedicated gas harvester or something new.

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.07.20 02:03:00 - [36]

Originally by: Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
I strongly suggest you don't draw attention of CCP to us miners. They have already taken the sound from our mining lasers and don't appear to want to give it back to us.

Can you imagine the uproar that would be ongoing if something happened to the sound effects for auto-cannons?

The desire for a ship that can do "MOAR" mining is understandable, but it just doesn't make sense. As it's been pointed out, the first thing that would happen is all the botters would upgrade to it, and things would go from there.

Mining needs to be made more interactive. Better yet, let it sit, as it is, on a base level, but then add interaction which increases ore yield. Let someone who pays attention to what they are doing get 25% more per cycle or something. Mix the rocks up, make the miner pull different ores out of the same rock, and give them a small chance (if they are interactively working with the mining process) to mine higher value ore*.

But no, no bigger "moar" ships.

*note: these ideas aren't my own. Others have suggested them in the past

Twilight Star Rangers
Posted - 2011.07.20 16:56:00 - [37]

Edited by: Cyniac on 20/07/2011 16:56:19
Mining works fairly well right now when in high sec - it's a low risk activity which results in low(ish) returns, which is fine. The major issue with it being bots, but I think it's important not to confuse the two issues - mining being boring/unprofitable whatever is one issue. Bots being a problem is a separate (but related) issue. No question that bots need to be whacked its just a question of how to do it, not if to do it.

Interestingly I find that mining in wormholes is also fairly balanced - rewards are significantly higher than in highsec, but then, so are the risks. One can argue whether the balance point is exactly where it should be (depending on how you go about it mining in a WH can go from the fairly safe to the downright suicidal) but it's pointing in the right direction.

The issue really is with providing people (myself not included) who are interested in mining with opportunities somewhere in the middle - mining in lowsec is meh at best and mining in null is an interesting mix of safe as a baby (when in friendly territory controlled by your alliance) or suicidal (there must be a reason why I've not seen a miner in Syndicate for months).

My thought - changes in mining should not be about increasing yield per ship, nor about trying to address botting (separate issue) but rather to find a way to make mining in lowsec and maybe in nullsec more interesting.

Cipher Jones
Posted - 2011.07.20 17:26:00 - [38]

Not all miners are poor.
I had to work hard as hell become a non-poor miner.
Here is my advice to you, work harder and make more money with your hulk.
So while you think you are working hard, you are clearly not working hard enough.

Lost Alt
Posted - 2011.07.21 09:14:00 - [39]

Ive ben thinking about his myself a but about getting a new thing for miners to trian for after hulk and to be fair it would have to be a cap and one that could not enter high.
So i was thinking what about a mining carrier.
Give it bonus to drone mining amount and ammount of mining drones it can field also speed of the mining drones. give it a mining mode similar to triage mode and run it on some sort of fuel and making the mining more efficient for all mining drones in fleet but also makes the carrier stationary for lets say 30 mins maybe making it suseptable for attacks.
a new module for it a mining drone augmentor that u can fit with somehting similar to a minig crystal boosting the ammount of m3 the drones mines of that particular type or ore. Now making it better then a hulk mining not to much better ofc but better so it actually is worht it.
now i dont know how about boters much but as i know making them use drones might be a bit dificult to script up but im probably wrong about that.

the idea behind it is that its somehting u can solo mine in if u want to but would be risky. would be a nice addition for a mining fleet and add some more stuff miners can train for making lowsec more interesting as well

Page Starcaster
Society of lost Souls
Posted - 2011.07.21 16:27:00 - [40]

a mining carrier would be cool.
-can't enter high sec
-can't use fighter, fighter bombers
-100% bonus to mining drone yield and speed
-large ore hold, so can't be used to haul anything but ore. and ore will still be dropped by drones into the small cargo hold needing to be moved from there to the ore hold so you can not AFK mine with it effectively.
- possibly add a capital class mining laser with high yield but can only mine low end ores. this may help to relieve the lack of low end ores in null. currently most low end ores are hauled into null from high sec.

It could work, and any bots using it would be easy targets in low/null sec. I expect most bots won't use it if they can not take it into high sec. to much risk, they would probably lose there ship to often to keep profits up.

Posted - 2011.07.21 16:47:00 - [41]

there really is no way for them to stop or even reliably detect bots. Most bot programs are key board/mouse emulators. meaning they work as if you are controlling the key board/mouse yourself.

they work like ; click left mouse button, pause XX seconds, Move cursor to coordinate X,Y, click left mouse button. etc.

I do not and never will use bots myself, but they are very difficult to detect other than sitting in system watching them and noting that they repeat actions at even intervals. you do not need to suicide gank bots in high sec to mess with them. often just bumping them in space will shift their overveiw enough to mess up the bot program.

Fordosan Banzai
Posted - 2011.07.21 18:34:00 - [42]

Mining is a humble profession and it should stay that way.

Masters Of Destiny
Posted - 2011.07.21 20:25:00 - [43]

+1 Imo. it would be great if CCP made following industrial upgrades...
Ice mining drones... yes im for real. Since they got mining drones they should have ice mining drones or just have the T2 version of mining drones be able to mine ice.

A bonused gas harvesting ship.. a T1 and a T2 version maybe.

A new mining ship, since the Hulk has a load of years on its neck and after a while its boring and slow to mine with :P
And what some of the others said industrials reall need some new **** :)

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.22 19:26:00 - [44]

I like the idea of mining carrier. Would be real cool to up skills for it and proudly fly it. But it need to have some kind of real protection so that single player be able to take it out for mining in low/wh/null without certainty of being everyone's favorite target. May be some autocannons or heavy attack drones with tanking mix or whatever it can be. Since it's obvious today's single Hulk wont survive attack of 2-3 gankers even tanked to the top. Otherwise it will be another toy for low/wh/null corps not useful for single industrialists.

Idea of "reinventing" Hulk since its old and aging also sounds very nice and even more attractive then carrier. May be ORE can recall or announce cease of Hulk production and put new design into action while "old" Hulks can become rare "antiques" for antiquity collectors or less rich capsuleers. Of course aging ship will require unspeakable amounts of ISK for maintanance. :-)

Honestly mining ships look nice up to Retriever/Makinaw. Covetor/Hulk look just not "right" for the top level mining ships. But Orca looks awesome and exactly like industrial ship. :-)

But that's the question of personal liking. What i like most about industrial ships, they look and act like ships. Simmetrical and heavy. And very useful for industry.

Digital Messiah
N7 Corporation
Posted - 2011.07.22 23:12:00 - [45]

I wouldn't mind rorquals in high security. That would be more than enough in itself. As it stands, they usually sit in a POS bubble anyways. So if you are gonna lose that ship more is going to be at risk than it. The yield you can currently get is satisfying. The utility that is missing, is not, however.

As it stands your options to own a rorqual are null or WH space. While null is the best bet to utilize one. People still have them in WH's to try and make up for the horrible refining. Seeing as people can war you in high security the risk is still relevant to having one there.

Adding the use of rorquals in high security, also alleviates the feeling that botters are always going to out compete your abilities to mine. While providing a wonderful asset for ore compression and smaller corporations just starting out their industry.

The most common argument is that it will crush the economy. When realistically the respawn rate on asteroids is doing that more than anything else. Someone running an orca and three hulks can clear a belt by themselves in a decent time frame. If you have an entire mining corporation, daily operations can keep the system clean on every respawn. The major issue is the amount coming in. Which will never change and only requires a percentage of the population deciding to mine to change it drastically. So let rorquals into high security and everyone will be happy.

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:48:00 - [46]

Rorquals in high sec will be the same as allowing a Titan in high sec. Overkill for everyone and everything that is not Rorqual. Sorry but imho that will be a mining industry kill for many people and that same Rorqual will be perfect target for suicide gankers. Check the price of that ship. So i have to strongly disagree with you on Rorquals in high sec idea.

Posted - 2011.07.23 08:11:00 - [47]

A few points from an old timer. . . .

Mining suits some of us grandfathers because it is slow and steady. It's a low risk enterprise that see's steady returns and results from long term investments. It fits nicely into our 'life' schedules where we can spend a couple of free hours doing something thats social but not too taxing with our 'paid for' eve time. Yes, it could do with more stuff to look at and work out and play with whilst mining, maybe an easier industrial lookup table structure so you can chase through products and processes for manufacturing and invention. Like the PI structure but with greater scope. But on the whole, I'm happy running out my hulk in hi-sec, dumping a few cans and picking them up in the orca. It's suits me, I'm happy with it.

What I ain't happy with is Bot's. It's cheating, plain and simple. And whilst it may be difficult to police them, I'm sure it's not impossible. If it can't be done through external imput detection then just have concord regularily 'bumping' ships. It's a police action against an in game illegality.

And, and this is the controversial point, mulitple char mining fleets. We can't all afford, are inclined too, or have the computational power to run multiple chars. And I do honestly think they are detrimental to game play. I've seen my local belts completly denuded by one guy and his fleet of 6 hulks. As a game mechanic, I find it game breaking. I know how common this is, all my corp buddies and eve industrial friends run multiple char mining fleets. It kinda makes a mockery of someone like me on an aging machine and a tight bank account with precious hours that are getting wasted looking for belts that havn't been completly stripped. I'm aware that it's certainly something CCP won't be in a hurry to do anything about, more chars, more money. But rather than seeing bigger, shinier, more productive ships, lets balance out the already great ships we have. The game is stacked for multiple char users and bots, Please, mr CCP, could you balance things out for the little guy again, because if is becoming a little to much like the real world, and thats not what I pay you for.


Laurence Pinkitin
Posted - 2011.07.23 08:21:00 - [48]

+1 to the on-board refining idea.

as for making mining more profitable for non botters, would increasing the amount of minerals needed to build ships ammo ect by like 25%-50% (maybe even higher)be a good idea? really just a place holder until they can figure out how to catch botters.

Posted - 2011.07.23 08:31:00 - [49]

And just make it more profitable for botters? You just end up with a closed loop then, cost of mining gets more expensive, so you mine more to cover it.

Naa, you need to hit this at source. If concord really are the cops, then maybe get them working as such, responding to alligations, investigating and dealing accordingly, can't be too hard for ccp to impletment and control is it? They do so with everything else.

Iam Rok
Posted - 2011.07.28 07:08:00 - [50]

here are my idea see what you think of them
mining tec 3: 5 sub-sytems sets 1: ore 2: ice 3: low sec 4:gas 5: hacking code breaking this way you only need 1 ship not 7 to be an industrialist. this if was made right would also offer a viable low sec solo ship. other things the subs could do is effect cargo space scanner ranges tank slots (maybe have one with 8 highs but unable to find strip miners) warp core strength (like a skiff)

I really like the idea of a bc or maybe even a bs sized mining ships so what if ccp made a competing faction against ore that had non-barge variants that say use super fast super low yield lazes or a purely drone based mining ship and there were tec2 ore type mining drones so and orca's refitting would be more useful could be cool. what about a smart bomb miner that mines every rock with in a 5 k radius so that it take a lot of skill to get good yield out of it cause you have to position yourself correctly. other mining ideas I like are a Gatling miner that speeds up the longer you mine so you can't mine fast on small empire rocks but on the big 00 guys it can get going faster. also I don't think any of these should give much more ore then the normal ones but it will give us new skills to train for different styles of mining and endless debate about which one is the best. I would love to see 4 tress of miner type just like there are 4 trees of guns. with some skills that cross over between the 2 and some that are mod dependent

also as bad as this seems what if you had less ore in asteroid belts in empire but gave more grave sites so that you have to scan down ore and you can just afk mine a whole systems worth I also think if we found ways to make it safer or more profitable to mine in low sec life would be a lot more fun so why not have combat miners that get some mining bonus and lets say ecm burst strength or just have a mining ship that can get an hp of over 100k so that help has time to arrive.

I do lot lot of mining in a lot of places and the only problems are bots in empire so if we can find ways to move mining out to low sec and 00 every one wins cause more pvp and more interesting mining.

also I like to hear new ideas on ways to mix up mining, have shooting comment that you have to chase around to mine. have differnt belt shapes other then a half circle( wow is space randome:( ) have Huge veld or scorie roids be mini moons around planets, have more places to use gas harvesters say like a super nova site that yields raw mins.

what about a pos mod that colletect space due and give you 451 units of ark a day up to a 2k ball that you still had to mine the normal way, useable only in 00 with sov 3 and a mod in the sbu. and make it so there can only be 1 per tower. that way you can get some high ends but you have to mange a tower and pay tower fuels for mins. some thing like that would be

and maybe some way to make trade goods I know that system got abused by afk haulers but it would help spread out the market pvp if there where things you could make with pi mins gases salvage basically random combos of ever part in eve that a random station would want or even a planet(take it to the customs office) and you have to make them and haul them to the right spot to sell them and it would change ever week hell even have industry agents that gave you say a week to make x product and have it like the starter mission where they give you a blue print so you cant just buy it off market. have faction warfare agents give missions to made custom ship that you cant fly cause there maned not pod controlled so a lvl 1 mission makes frigates a 2 a crusier a 3 a bc a 4 a bs and a 5 either a fleet or a cap that way mins are going to up in price.

ok that all for now I might repost this as its own topic some day just cause i think this is what people where really asking for new idea into making mining new and exciting agian with out have to change the balance of the old system

Athar Mu
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.28 08:27:00 - [51]

I like the idea of a T3 mining ship. One where you can trade off a better tank for cargo/yield or something, maybe set it up to be hard to scan or have like +2 warp core strength. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a T3 where you can set it up for mining specific ore/s to increase yield. So you can have a really good ABC mining ship but it lacks in some other way (tank/cargo/sensor strength). Though it couldn't out-perform the Hulk (or if it did only by a small margin) otherwise it would be pretty pointless having the Hulk.

Improving mining is going to be difficult. People are right, first you stop the bots and then look at mining. If you don't stop the bots and just increase the yield then its not going to solve anything.

If you put more interaction in to weaken the bots then there would have to be a pay off for being more attentive. Maybe we should be made to maths problems (or like the DS Brain Training program) as we mine to increase the yield...that way we would stop the rot in our brains from playing computer games all day long.

Though having a gas mining specific ship would be nice...

Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.07.28 11:48:00 - [52]

Edited by: catinboots on 28/07/2011 11:53:30
I Would rather see belts replaced by grav site which are reasonable easy to find with a scanner ( maybe 5 to 10 minutes work ) that change position each day after DT

These belts contain all the ore you normally find , the grav site we know today still exsist and still rare and difficult to find

After that they can add new t3 subsystems that replaces the offensive subsystemsfor the exsisting t3 ships

one for mining , but less than a hulk
one to convert into a cloaky transport , less cargo tho
one for ice mining
and maybe a real dedicated exploration ship

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.28 19:38:00 - [53]

Heck I would be happy with new graphics for the Hulk. The other mining barges are fine. Even the Covetor can stay how it is. But the Hulk being a recolored Covetor is just a drag. Heck it can even have the same model it has now just be twice as "fat". Imagine two hulks stacked on top of each other. Make it look as bulky as its name suggests.

I get why CCP designed the barges the way they did (3 designs recolored to make 6 different ships) because it makes development easier but heck give the top of the line model a little something special considering the time investment and money needed to fly it.

Moray Regional Enterprises
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.07.28 19:42:00 - [54]

I don`t think its a case of gertting upgrades to mining. We already have a decent spread of stuff available. I think its a case of making mining more interesting in other ways. New ores maybe? New ways to mine?

Who knows. I just don`t do it much unless I need to.

Cedo Nulli
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:28:00 - [55]

I would love to see the end of botting in form of punkbuster type of solution ... Think about the effect it would have in the whole game ! It would be massive !

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2011.07.29 15:19:00 - [56]

You got my support but not for more mining caps we have thoughs.

I would like to see a Tech 3 mining ship though. It dont have to mine more then the hulk just the same. i.e. fit it up one way and you have a hulk fit it up another way and you have a gas havester fit it up yet another way and you have a mack and so on. With better tank and other possable things like can you see a tech 3 hulk that looks like a hulk mines like a hulk but cloaks up with a cover op cloak.ugh

Cobra Corp
Posted - 2011.07.31 03:53:00 - [57]

Training for my new "UNICRON" crew checking in!

Posted - 2011.07.31 15:58:00 - [58]

I don't think a rorqual would be a suicide gank target you can easily fit over a 2k dps omni tank on one be cap stable and have over 500k ehp without even using faction items or a dcu plus with 20%/lvl to drone hp/damage can get 660 dps with t2 garde's and one sentry damage rig I would like to be able to use rorquals in highsec but it's not going to happen would like if either orca's could use industrial core and give better boost while in deployed mode or a t2 orca that could do so. Also if was capital strips/ice harvesters that only fit on orca/rorqual as long as it couldn't mine more then say a hulk/mack I wouldn't see a problem with it

Originally by: Alex Sinai
Rorquals in high sec will be the same as allowing a Titan in high sec. Overkill for everyone and everything that is not Rorqual. Sorry but imho that will be a mining industry kill for many people and that same Rorqual will be perfect target for suicide gankers. Check the price of that ship. So i have to strongly disagree with you on Rorquals in high sec idea.

Mey Wing
Voodoo Physics
Posted - 2011.08.01 01:43:00 - [59]

Glad to see the topic is still going strong! Thanks to all for your input.

I must admit, the idea of the "mining carrier" sounds SEXY!!!!

I agree that increasing yield based upgrades for empire will increase the "bot-effect" as I call it, but then let's do something that can ony stay in low or nulsec. Again, some great ideas. Even the T3 Hulk sounds great. Ice harvester Drones is a cool idea (not to mention that salvage drones would be cool... but that is a diffrent topic)

So keep them ideas coming in. Maybe one day soon some1 from CCP might actually look at this topic and think "hmm... that's not a bad idea."

Lorix Cursedbone
Posted - 2011.08.01 13:37:00 - [60]

Edited by: Lorix Cursedbone on 01/08/2011 13:55:07
Edited by: Lorix Cursedbone on 01/08/2011 13:38:34
to shoot and kill bigest rat or players you need more skills.
to mining you need only hulk whit t2 strips.
this is the reason mining to bi easy.
why we have asteroids scanners?
I would like asteroids scanning makes sense, except display the quantity available in scanned asteroid. for example, discover some gravimetric signature, like mining sites. after going to the place you see a big unknown asteroid, scan with asteroid scanner, to understand what can be gained from it. and only then start mining.
mining is easy and boring if you have lock, lock, lock, F1, F2, F3 and wait.

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