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AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:20:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs on 14/07/2011 17:23:16
Originally by: Cipher Jones
How ****ed are you going to be if the new system gives better intel instead of worse, which I am almost sure will happen?


Oh great one. Please, please tell the rest of us inferiors how instant intel on, number of people in system, alliance, corporation, standings, player names, can possibly get any worse? Will the new system allow me to right click on their name and warp directly to them? Will it display if they are afk? Will it display what they are doing, where they are docked? Ship they are in?

You know because I am highly curious how much worse it can get. Oh and by the way, please don't hesitate share your Suber Sekret Intelz on how YOU, are pretty sure it will be an intel tool with even MORE information.

Also your signature is not fitting for someone like you scared to death of not having instant local intel as a warm fuzzy blanky. Just keep hugging it and sucking on your thumb. One day you will grow up big and strong and be a big boy. Very Happy

Originally by: Cregg Neir
..the ability to know who is in the system with you will remain in the game everywhere except in wormholes..


That is not what the minutes said. Please stop spreading misinformation.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:59:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 18:01:54
Originally by: Drykor
Didn't read entire thread. To the op: wormhole space disagrees with you.


Ok you may think that but the facts and data show the opposite is true. Wormholes are by far the worst place for pvp per capita other than high sec. The only real difference is no local. Low sec yields the most pvp per capita then null sec than wormholes.



Originally by: Cearain
Edited by: Cearain on 14/02/2011 17:57:07
The Quarterly reports tend to show low sec is the place where a player can find the most pvp. We have to use the last two reports to get a picture of where the pvp mostly happens but low sec appears to have the most pvp per person and per system.

Population of low sec per Q2 report of population:

Low sec: 8% or @56,960

WH: 7% @49,840

HS: 53% or @ 377360

Null sec 32% 227.84

Q3 report said that there were 800 thousand kills in that quarter.
29% or 232k of those kills were in low sec
4% or 32,000 of those kills in wormholes
16% or 128,000 of those kills were in high sec
And 51% or 408,000 were in null sec.

Ok on a per capita basis then we see that low sec yields about 2.3 xs as many kills/losses as null sec. Low sec gets about @ 5xs as many kills/losses as in wormholes.

If we look at the amount of pvp per system we can see low sec is still the best place to be.

Low sec (641 systems): 361 kills per system
Null sec (3304 systems): 123 kills per system
Worm hole(2499 systems): 12 kills per system.


Now the QEN does not separate null sec into npc null sec and sov holding null sec. I wish it would. I would anticipate that npc null sec would be as good or even better than low sec. Which would also mean that player sov null sec is even worse for pvp.




Its pretty clear that killing local hurts pvp.

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:02:00 - [153]
 

Killing local just makes people have to work for their intel.

I have no problem with it whatsoever and small gang is p much all I do nowdays.

I love the feeling of danger in wh and delayed local is totally fine.

HTFU tbh.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:07:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Ok you may think that but the facts and data show the opposite is true. Wormholes are by far the worst place for pvp per capita other than high sec. The only real difference is no local. Low sec yields the most pvp per capita then null sec than wormholes...

Also completely irrelevant since the low kill numbers in worms has way more to do with access difficulty than anything else ..
Disturbing that null yields are that low though, considering the amount of Dev attention they get. Lazy ass carebears the lot of them! Laughing

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:08:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs
Edited by: AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs on 14/07/2011 17:23:16
...stuff...


Why don't you just go to wormhole space if you think its so great not having local. The vast majority of pvpers prefer null and low sec where there is a local.

The thing is we have to distinguish between 1)people who solo pvp in order to fight other pvpers and 2)people who solo pvp in order to gank pve fit ships.

I would likely agree that for those whose pvp consists mostly of ganking pve fit ships no local would probably help.

But for those of us who like to roam solo to fight other pvpers removing local would be disasterous.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:11:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: jackaloped
Ok you may think that but the facts and data show the opposite is true. Wormholes are by far the worst place for pvp per capita other than high sec. The only real difference is no local. Low sec yields the most pvp per capita then null sec than wormholes...

Also completely irrelevant since the low kill numbers in worms has way more to do with access difficulty than anything else ..
Disturbing that null yields are that low though, considering the amount of Dev attention they get. Lazy ass carebears the lot of them! Laughing


The amount of pvp per capita is extremely low in wormholes. Its not just low in total number of kills. Wormholes are by far the most peaceful places outside of high sec.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:48:00 - [157]
 

So many people that pew pew in low sec base from high sec, so the per capita figure is useless. Exactly the same for wormholes and to a degree (outside major fleet operations, null sec too. Per capita figures are a bastardisation of data used by people who don't know how to interpret figures based on how the game is actually played.

To imply that accessibility is not a determinant in the amount of PVP occurring in wormholes is naive at best. Furthermore the mass limitations limit the number of people you can 'roam' wormholes with while established dwellers have had time to build their resources and are well defended. It's a completely different environment.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:49:00 - [158]
 

Without knowing exactly what CCP has in mind for changing how local works, we cant speculate on how the change would effect solo/small gang pvp.

As a NBSI solo pvper and with how local currently is, I can sit on a gate/station/belt in lowsec for hours on end and not get a decent fight. I pew pew the npc's in belt with a cruiser, hit dscan, usually see nothing or when I do see something, its multiple targets all in battlecruisers just as a rapier uncloaks 15km from me.

No matter what change to local comes to pass, I dont see the gank mentality changing at all. People love steamrolling their opponents. Thats never going to change.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:04:00 - [159]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 14/07/2011 19:06:53
Originally by: jackaloped

The amount of pvp per capita is extremely low in wormholes. Its not just low in total number of kills. Wormholes are by far the most peaceful places outside of high sec.


No, you just do not understand the primary issue with these figures.

Lowsec has quite a large portion of 'weekend warriors', players that go to lowsec for pvp but do not live there, i.e. they return to hisec to log off. Same goes for nullsec, many roamers leave for lowsec or hisec after they got their pvp fix.

People do not do that in wormhole space, because wormholes have this annoying tendency to spit you out in the middle of nowhere when your entry hole collapses.


Population data is skewed, simple as that. Pvp per capita is actually pretty damn high for wormholes, more so considering the major restrictions for 'roaming gang' gameplay that leads to people rarely covering more than 5 systems per day as opposed to 20+ in lowsec or 50+ for nullsec roams.

It clearly shows having local in delayed mode works, backed up by numbers (if you actually are able to interpret them right).

Elder Man
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:43:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Elder Man on 14/07/2011 19:45:25



I'm for removing local, just as long as when a player is killed, they have to start the game over again, including training.

Lets make it as real as it gets and see what happens. YARRRR!!




Veryez
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:52:00 - [161]
 

I spend a huge amount of my time in wormholes and have begun to feel that having local is like cheating. When I go into losec or 0.0, having instant intel on who's there simply feels wrong.

Is having to hit scan every 10 sec a pita, yes, but if you don't then be prepared to accept the consequences. Oh and for killing small gang pvp? Wh's are the home of small gang pvp, almost all pvp in wh's where I've been are less than 20 people.

The only place where there should be local is highsec, since it's still the best way to meet newer players and invite them to join corps (though the new advertisment system is really good.)

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:01:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 18:01:54
Originally by: Drykor
Didn't read entire thread. To the op: wormhole space disagrees with you.


Ok you may think that but the facts and data show the opposite is true. Wormholes are by far the worst place for pvp per capita other than high sec. The only real difference is no local. Low sec yields the most pvp per capita then null sec than wormholes.




Another huge difference is you have to probe down a gate every time you want to leave a system in WH space. WH space does not nearly have the population or traffic compared to High sec, Low sec, and 0.0. Traffic is a huge factor for PvP in finding targets. CCP says they will be improving the scanner abilities. There was also a mention of an Ihub tweak idea to help 0.0. I do not believe you can use WH space as a valid example of why you think a change to local is a bad thing PvP wise. As a person that has astrometric skills, I think a change to local is going to be more fun and challenging. You are entitled to your opinion of course.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:20:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 14/07/2011 15:13:21
side note:
Im pretty sure the WH's have the MOST PvP in game. They have the least % of PvP according to the QEN, but also the least # of systems, making it the highest per system, and unquestionably the highest per capita.

Originally by: Karash Amerius
Killing local strengthens PVP, and the game in general. Do not be scared of change...embrace it.


How ****ed are you going to be if the new system gives better intel instead of worse, which I am almost sure will happen?


lol you must seriously be joking or you don't undock much.. There is likely more ship kills in Jita in one day then in all WH's for an entire week.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:57:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 14/07/2011 19:06:53
Originally by: jackaloped

The amount of pvp per capita is extremely low in wormholes. Its not just low in total number of kills. Wormholes are by far the most peaceful places outside of high sec.


No, you just do not understand the primary issue with these figures.

Lowsec has quite a large portion of 'weekend warriors', players that go to lowsec for pvp but do not live there, i.e. they return to hisec to log off. Same goes for nullsec, many roamers leave for lowsec or hisec after they got their pvp fix..


First of all I do not believe this to be the case. Many in low sec are pirates so they can't go to high sec. Moreover for every person who goes into low sec to pvp I bet there are just as many going from high sec into low sec to trade or pve. But for sake of argument lets say you are correct.

It doesn't change anything. There is a given number of people in low sec, null sec, or wormholes at any given time. Those people in low sec are getting 5 times the number of kills that people in "no local worm holes" are getting.

You may say its because wormholes attract more pveers than pvpers. I would agree. A big reason is because no local sucks for most pvpers. If it didn't there would be more pvpers there.


Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 14/07/2011 19:06:53

People do not do that in wormhole space, because wormholes have this annoying tendency to spit you out in the middle of nowhere when your entry hole collapses.


I have plenty of jump clones. If I thought no local would increase the amount of pvp I could get I would be in whs all the time. But no local hurts prospects of getting pvp. Just ask myself and others who do solo pvp. There are a few of them in this thread repeating the same thing I am.


Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 14/07/2011 19:06:53
Population data is skewed, simple as that. Pvp per capita is actually pretty damn high for wormholes, more so considering the major restrictions for 'roaming gang' gameplay that leads to people rarely covering more than 5 systems per day as opposed to 20+ in lowsec or 50+ for nullsec roams.

It clearly shows having local in delayed mode works, backed up by numbers (if you actually are able to interpret them right).


A big part of "the major restriction" that prevents you from covering more wh systems faster is no local. If you had local would see the hole is empty and move on like you do with low sec and null sec. No local means you have to waste time scanning in an empty system.

So a major restriction for roaming in wormholes preventing pvp is no local.

Wormholes and no local works for pvp backed up by numbers? The numbers show that you get 5xs as many fights per person per hour in low sec. I think you are the one who is twisting facts if you think this shows making low sec more like wormholes would be good for pvp.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:11:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Shepard Book
Originally by: jackaloped
Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 18:01:54
Originally by: Drykor
Didn't read entire thread. To the op: wormhole space disagrees with you.


Ok you may think that but the facts and data show the opposite is true. Wormholes are by far the worst place for pvp per capita other than high sec. The only real difference is no local. Low sec yields the most pvp per capita then null sec than wormholes.




Another huge difference is you have to probe down a gate every time you want to leave a system in WH space. WH space does not nearly have the population or traffic compared to High sec, Low sec, and 0.0. Traffic is a huge factor for PvP in finding targets. CCP says they will be improving the scanner abilities. There was also a mention of an Ihub tweak idea to help 0.0. I do not believe you can use WH space as a valid example of why you think a change to local is a bad thing PvP wise. As a person that has astrometric skills, I think a change to local is going to be more fun and challenging. You are entitled to your opinion of course.


I would argue more that its the right kind of traffic that leads to pvp. Not just traffic. Wormholes do not have as many people who want to pvp. If no local was good for pvp then we would expect pvpers to go there. Yet we don't.

Listen to the people who engage in solo or very small scale pvp with others pvpers. No local will pretty much kill that off unless they replace it with something almost identical.

Again people who solo pvp against pve fit ships may benefit. I really am not sure, because that is not what I do.

Ok you mentioned you trained astrometric skills and you seem to enjoy scanning. If you are in wormholes you may find others who are like minded. But for myself the thought of scanning around system after system to find the ships are just in a pos and no one is there makes my neck hurt.

Like you say its just my opinion and everyone can have their own.

Perhaps if people want no local they can make certain parts of null sec and low sec have no local but allow other parts to keep something equivalent.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:20:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Holy One
Killing local just makes people have to work for their intel.

....


By "work" do you mean constantly hitting the dscan button like an imbecil? I mean don't you think in the age of spaceships this information would automatically appear on screen without requiring the pilot to manually press a button over and over?

I agree games should be challenging. But challenging is not the same thing as annoying.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:23:00 - [167]
 

Removing local favors those who are willing to take risks in PVP.

The risk averse will now always fear a hidden bigger blob, and won't engage because. The risk takers will engage.

I don't desire to remove superior numbers as a tactical option, I'd like to reduce it as the risk-averse's tool of choice.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:30:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Maverick2011
I'm a carebear and know how every carebear thinks, even the "hardcore" carebears that venture into low/null sec or are protected by huge alliances in null sec.


Rolling Eyes If I had an iskie for every time someone here made a lame attempt at speaking for "everyone"...


Take a nap man, you're stressed over nothing. It was only an internet speech.

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:40:00 - [169]
 

Wow a lot of rage and baseless fear in this thread.

Local is NOT disapearing. It is changing this is not a Local/no local debate.

Now is the chance to say how locals replacment should work. It should foster PvP and broden the EvE experiance.

My personal prefrence is have a delayed "local" Updated off of ships that would apear on your ship scanner. Delay would eb about 10 seconds before a player shows up and local is poulated for those jumping in.

This means the following would NOT show
cloaked ships
ships out side scan range
Ships docked
I also do not feel that ships in side a POS shield should show.

This gives a roving gang intel on each system on where they may find another such fleet. They cal also keep eyes on fleets via stealth ships.

Also 10 second delay to let a fleet warping in with good intel have chance to actually use that intel. Also allows for fun ambushes from station or pos or really far away in big systems.

Feel this would get more fleets fighting and really be benificial.

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:46:00 - [170]
 

I also disagree with your logic that no local is why PvP in wormholes does not take place.
Worm holes are a single system with little or no traffic passing through them. They also do not permit large fleet into them, and a large fleet would not find another large fleet also looking for a fight and rather gank a few people as they run away.
Since most kills are by a group of players killing people/fleets traveling between systems or in fleets also looking for fights and none of these can take place in WH space there is not a lot of PvP in WH space. The lack of PvP in WH space is not due solely to the lack of local.

Also when I lived in a WH we watched the WH when we where in an op for activations and incoming ships…If a fleet came in we went to the pos.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:53:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Removing local favors those who are willing to take risks in PVP.




No it will favor the those who like to sit in a big blob waiting for someone to take the bait. It may also benefit those who like to gate camp (which is really a form of blobbing). Finally it may benefit those who like to gank people in a pve fit ships.

What I describe above are the *least* risky forms of pvp in eve.

The most risky form of pvp in eve is going solo or in a very small gang looking for other pvpers. Removing local will really hurt them.

So its actually the opposite of what you say.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:00:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 22:00:52
Originally by: E man Industries
I also disagree with your logic that no local is why PvP in wormholes does not take place.
Worm holes are a single system with little or no traffic passing through them. They also do not permit large fleet into them, and a large fleet would not find another large fleet also looking for a fight and rather gank a few people as they run away.
Since most kills are by a group of players killing people/fleets traveling between systems or in fleets also looking for fights and none of these can take place in WH space there is not a lot of PvP in WH space. The lack of PvP in WH space is not due solely to the lack of local.

Also when I lived in a WH we watched the WH when we where in an op for activations and incoming ships…If a fleet came in we went to the pos.




Certainly a solo or small gang can get in a wormhole. The fact that *very* large fleets can't you would think meant whs would be a great place for solo or small gang pvp. But thats not the case.

If no local was really a good way to get solo or small gang pvp then wormholes would have allot of solo and small gang pvpers. But they don't. I know there are a few corps that do it but by and large you don't have it. Thats the point. There isn't allot of traffic in part because no local makes it take allot longer to find fights.

julie's creation
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:08:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Kirkland Langue
...
Don't go pretending that you want to save local as some means of saving the honorable 1v1 fights - that's clearly some fiction that you believe sounds good. Saving local is merely about saving your ability to know when to GTFO of your plex.


I get in many 1v1 and 1 bigger ship v small gang of smaller ships fights. Its basically the only reason I play eve. Yes it takes to long to find them in eve now. But removing local will make it take more time not less.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:26:00 - [174]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 14/07/2011 22:30:18
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Merdaneth
Removing local favors those who are willing to take risks in PVP.




No it will favor the those who like to sit in a big blob waiting for someone to take the bait. It may also benefit those who like to gate camp (which is really a form of blobbing). Finally it may benefit those who like to gank people in a pve fit ships.

What I describe above are the *least* risky forms of pvp in eve.

The most risky form of pvp in eve is going solo or in a very small gang looking for other pvpers. Removing local will really hurt them.

So its actually the opposite of what you say.

Not only are you talking out of your arse, you're also mixing topics that have no direct relation. Your reasoning doesn't make sense whatsoever, so please shut up and think before you touch the keyboard. Thanks.

Blobbing exists because Eve is a typical realtime strategy game at its core. In RTS blobbing tends to be the most efficient tactic as long as effective counter measures don't exist. These are area of effect damage and the possibility of outmaneuvering the blob. Both of them basically don't exist in Eve. Hence, the most efficient tactic is blobbing. This has nothing to do with local chat. It's merely a very obvious flaw in Eve's game design.

Why is local chat bad for PvP? Easy answer:
In RTS scouting, and much more its precondition - fog of war - is actually the one core mechanic that keeps things interesting and unpredictable. What local chat does is remove the fog of war completely. Everyone can always know where everyone else is. Hence, all fleet movement in Eve, regardless of whether it's a small gang or a huge blob, is very easily predictable. There is no moment of surprise in Eve and there is no skill and / or fun gameplay involved in finding people and maneuvering fleets. This affects everyone equally. Stop pretending that it affects one subset of players more than the other. It doesn't. And stop trying to argue for local as a "community tool to make you feel as through you're not alone". Creating a chat channel or joining one to find people is two clicks away. Regional chats don't hurt anyone, either.

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:35:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 22:00:52
Originally by: E man Industries
I also disagree with your logic that no local is why PvP in wormholes does not take place.
Worm holes are a single system with little or no traffic passing through them. They also do not permit large fleet into them, and a large fleet would not find another large fleet also looking for a fight and rather gank a few people as they run away.
Since most kills are by a group of players killing people/fleets traveling between systems or in fleets also looking for fights and none of these can take place in WH space there is not a lot of PvP in WH space. The lack of PvP in WH space is not due solely to the lack of local.

Also when I lived in a WH we watched the WH when we where in an op for activations and incoming ships…If a fleet came in we went to the pos.




Certainly a solo or small gang can get in a wormhole. The fact that *very* large fleets can't you would think meant whs would be a great place for solo or small gang pvp. But thats not the case.

If no local was really a good way to get solo or small gang pvp then wormholes would have allot of solo and small gang pvpers. But they don't. I know there are a few corps that do it but by and large you don't have it. Thats the point. There isn't allot of traffic in part because no local makes it take allot longer to find fights.


And the risk of getting lost. I don't like being in a WH without a prober on my ship. I also do not want to take a fleet into one to ahve the WH colapse behind me and end 60 jumps from where I am based.

PvP WH rades normally involve going one WH over or one WH in...0.0 roams are often many systems long looking for a fight.

I'm not saying no local fosters PvP, just sying WH have other things not in favor of PvP

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.15 00:17:00 - [176]
 

I'd demand this thread be locked since it resembles a lunchroom foodfight more than a discussion. But, the odds are better it'll reach up and strangle itself out of desperation.


Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2011.07.15 01:00:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Holy One
Killing local just makes people have to work for their intel.

I have no problem with it whatsoever and small gang is p much all I do nowdays.

I love the feeling of danger in wh and delayed local is totally fine.

HTFU tbh.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.07.15 01:07:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Merdaneth
Removing local favors those who are willing to take risks in PVP.




No it will favor the those who like to sit in a big blob waiting for someone to take the bait. It may also benefit those who like to gate camp (which is really a form of blobbing). Finally it may benefit those who like to gank people in a pve fit ships.



I dont think you pvp at all to be honest judging by your comments in this thread. Lets assume local gets removed, without any additional intel tools.


For solo pvpers it doesnt matter, you take the bait and the blobbers jump in from the system next door anyway. You dont see them now, you dont see them then, nothing changes. Finding targets is not much more difficult, in a typical lowsec system 3/4 of people are docked and no valid targets anyway, you always need your scanner anyway.


For gatecampers it gets a lot worse. Local is the most important safety tool when gatecamping. You see hostile fleets coming with your scouts in the systems one jump out, you see people sneaking a fleet into your system. You see cloakies that might open a cyno for hotdrops, or just tackle your ships until their backup is there from three jumps out.

Fore Khaos
Posted - 2011.07.15 04:16:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: Fore Khaos on 15/07/2011 04:17:21
So more ships get blown up...perhaps PvP'ers will actually have to fly cheap again instead of their wtfpwn-faction ship that they grind/buy Plex for their Saturday night roam.

As for the "you just want to kill people who can't fight back" argument, please. There's no shortage of carebears to kill in highsec just by infiltrating their corps.


XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.07.15 05:13:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Merdaneth
Removing local favors those who are willing to take risks in PVP.




No it will favor the those who like to sit in a big blob waiting for someone to take the bait. It may also benefit those who like to gate camp (which is really a form of blobbing). Finally it may benefit those who like to gank people in a pve fit ships.



I dont think you pvp at all to be honest judging by your comments in this thread. Lets assume local gets removed, without any additional intel tools.


For solo pvpers it doesnt matter, you take the bait and the blobbers jump in from the system next door anyway. You dont see them now, you dont see them then, nothing changes. Finding targets is not much more difficult, in a typical lowsec system 3/4 of people are docked and no valid targets anyway, you always need your scanner anyway.


For gatecampers it gets a lot worse. Local is the most important safety tool when gatecamping. You see hostile fleets coming with your scouts in the systems one jump out, you see people sneaking a fleet into your system. You see cloakies that might open a cyno for hotdrops, or just tackle your ships until their backup is there from three jumps out.


QFT. I cannot understand folks decrying a delayed local as a boon only to people that want to gank PVE ships. Quite a few people have no other drive towards pvp than to see stuff burn, if you think you can catch it and kill it you go for it. You are going to see more solo people being a bit more daring in such an environment. Space should be scary and full of uncertainties not instant and powerful intel.






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