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jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:42:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: jackaloped

For those who want to argue that removing local is going to be better for pvp please consider facts.


You're getting ahead of yourself.


http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Meetings_18-20_05_2011.pdf

Quote:

Conversation then took a bit of a tangent, and Arnar mentioned that local as we know it is going to change in a Winter expansion. The CSM was taken aback by this and let fly a torrent of questions about this new “no local”. Local, as it was explained, had to change because of changes to EVE’s infrastructure needed for future Incarna development. However, it would be replaced by a new, yet-to-be-designed intelligence gathering tool. Local would not simply just “turn off” and turn into delayed mode, such as in wormhole space. It is worth a repeat – local will NOT be simply turned off and/or turned into delayed mode. Arnar and Torfi both emphasized the importance of not feeling alone in space; they reasoned that the game has fifty thousand players and that it shouldn’t feel as though you’re alone. The CSM will be kept in the loop regarding this design when more is known.





I am aware of this. But they are talking about putting this in the winter expansion - a few months away. I am just requesting that they consider the solo and small scale pvpers. I hope they have some method to see that the blob is coming in, other than having to try to hit the dscan button while you are also trying to fight in a small gang fight.

Also I don't want to have to gimp my ship with a scan probe launcher just to spend time to find out a system is empty. Again make finding decent small scale pvp easier not harder.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:44:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Ranka Mei
That surprises me, to be honest. WH sites are at fixed locations, far as I know; so ppl basically just have to hop between a few known spots to tackle you: a little too hot for my taste. So, yeah, it surprises me PvP does not occur a a whole lot in WH space.

Another clueless person.

What with this and the OP's inability to base his concerns on reality this thread is now entirely worthless.

Good thing we have your invaluable contributions to this thread then to compensate a bit for it... Oh wait.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:45:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 02:45:43
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Ranka Mei
That surprises me, to be honest. WH sites are at fixed locations, far as I know; so ppl basically just have to hop between a few known spots to tackle you: a little too hot for my taste. So, yeah, it surprises me PvP does not occur a a whole lot in WH space.

Another clueless person.

What with this and the OP's inability to base his concerns on reality this thread is now entirely worthless.



I said I agree I don't know how they are changing it. But they are supposedly going to implement a change in the next few months - winter. I would like them to consider how important local is to solo pvpers.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:47:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
There is plenty of solo PvP (mostly unconsentual though...) in WHs and they have no local.


Actually there is not. Read the QEN that gives the facts on this. There is far less pvp in wormholes than there is in low sec or null sec per system and per capita.


And this is ENTIRELY because of the lack of local, eh?

Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that "roaming" in WHs requires you to probe out each and every system you jump into, no sir.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:51:00 - [35]
 

The QEN also states that Echelons are one of the most popularly flown ships.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:01:00 - [36]
 

I don't see a problem with local as it stands.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:02:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
I don't see a problem with local as it stands.


The problem with local is that the only thing you have to do to get perfect intel on the pilots in a system is show up and look at the chat window.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 14/07/2011 02:10:38
I've wondered (and worried) about this too.

As it currently is, I can enter a system alone, see 5 guys from the same corp in local, and then leave, knowing that I'm not going to get a remotely fair fight without the others interfering.

So what you're saying is that instant local prevents pvp. Exactly.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:08:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Llambda on 14/07/2011 03:08:02
Oh, and also, local makes 0.0 carebears upset about afk cloakers, which isn't a problem in and of itself, but then it forces them to pollute both the assembly hall and ideas/features discussion forums with their ideas for "fixing" cloaking so they won't be "forced" to dock up by people who aren't even playing. And then I read their tripe, and it makes me sad.

And that is why local has to go.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:08:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Kirkland Langue
haha look at the ratter who is afraid of recon gangs in 0.0
You really and honestly believe this change is going to bring massive amounts of free kills? For the first few weeks, maybe. This is but a single small band-aid designed to cover your body rash of lust for easy kills, if even that, and you're having an orgasm about it. If CCP implements this well, it will make your fish-on-a-barrel hunt even more boring. But fortunately for us, you can't see past a couple of weeks.

Nonetheless, it is amusing see you slowly stab and twist the knife unto yourself and gloating about it. Enjoy your "buff" Wink.


What are you raving about? This will finally fix your afk cloaker problem. Be happy.

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:09:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Pok Nibin on 14/07/2011 03:10:06
Let's see...the game has a convoluted system of security designation... 0.0 yeah, if you're good and experienced you should naturally, eventually play out there...NO LOCAL IN 0.0! Great idea, then real military strategy has to serve for mob action...blobs are tedious if they can't find a target!

LOW SEC? Funny. A limbo, half this, half that. Never made sense, never WILL make sense...just a zone for half-a$$ed players with no sense of construction to hang around and circle jerk.

All "Sovereignty" is enforced by the faction, screw the Concord private contractor fiasco. Rename the concord ships to the faction sovereignty they're in and enforce sovereignty from what is now 1.0 to 0.1 and dump that idiotic segregation. YES LOCAL.

Problem solved.

Now all the hacks that have contorted a career around vulturing low sec and whine. "Me? Get a real career? But, but, but...I'm a PIRATE!" Piracy is illegal. All sovereign states spend blood and treasure to rid themselves of the parasites. "Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute." T. Jefferson

NO LOCAL for the WILDLANDS (no organization to get one up)
LOCAL FOR MINMATAR, AMARR, CALDARI AND THAT OTHER RACE'S SOVEREIGN ZONES - with pirate hunters. Drop Concord.

It's game time.






MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:10:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Razin
What are you raving about? This will finally fix your afk cloaker problem. Be happy.
Reread my post. I'm actually looking forward to this change Wink.


Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:10:00 - [43]
 

fish-on-a-barrel

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:10:00 - [44]
 

No local is going to turn EVE into Gate Camp Online.



Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:14:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Razin
What are you raving about? This will finally fix your afk cloaker problem. Be happy.
Reread my post. I'm actually looking forward to this change Wink.


Even though I can't see it in your post, I'm happy that you're happy.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:23:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 14/07/2011 02:10:38
I've wondered (and worried) about this too.

As it currently is, I can enter a system alone, see 5 guys from the same corp in local, and then leave, knowing that I'm not going to get a remotely fair fight without the others interfering.

So what you're saying is that instant local prevents pvp. Exactly.


It help prevents blobbing. I just hope they don't completely kill off solo and small gang pvp by taking away local and not giving us something pretty much identical.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:24:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Razin
Even though I can't see it in your post, I'm happy that you're happy.
Even though I highly doubt your sincerity, I thank you anyway.

If implemented right, this change will be for the better. But it won't be the free meal some are expecting it to be. And that indeed makes me happy :P.


jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:27:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Toovhon
I don't see a problem with local as it stands.


The problem with local is that the only thing you have to do to get perfect intel on the pilots in a system is show up and look at the chat window.


So you think we should have to push button to get the intel?

There is a difference between making a game challenging and making a game annoying.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:28:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

If implemented right, this change will be for the better. But it won't be the free meal some are expecting it to be. And that indeed makes me happy :P.


I believe we're in violent agreement here.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:29:00 - [50]
 

As a carebear (High sec) missioner i really don't care about local. If someone wants to kill me they will no matter what. If they want to bait me they will fail, no matter what.

Nothing changes for high sec players.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:31:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Maverick2011
As a carebear (High sec) missioner i really don't care about local. If someone wants to kill me they will no matter what. If they want to bait me they will fail, no matter what.

Nothing changes for high sec players in NPC corps.


Fixed that for you, although it's probably going to have implications for you too tbh.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:32:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2

If implemented right, this change will be for the better. But it won't be the free meal some are expecting it to be. And that indeed makes me happy :P.


I believe we're in violent agreement here.


What do we mean by "implemented right"? From my perspective it means basically giving us about the same intel as local give now. Otherwise this will just boost blobbing. And if there is one thing we don't need it is a boost to blobbing.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:33:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Razin on 14/07/2011 03:34:22
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Toovhon
I don't see a problem with local as it stands.


The problem with local is that the only thing you have to do to get perfect intel on the pilots in a system is show up and look at the chat window.


So you think we should have to push button to get the intel?

There is a difference between making a game challenging and making a game annoying.
The word from CCP Zulu is that we're getting new intel tools to help mitigate the loss of instant local. I'm hoping those new tools don't act like the intel god-mode that is the current local. Otherwise there'd be no point in this change.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:34:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Llambda on 14/07/2011 03:36:42
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Toovhon
I don't see a problem with local as it stands.


The problem with local is that the only thing you have to do to get perfect intel on the pilots in a system is show up and look at the chat window.


So you think we should have to push button to get the intel?

There is a difference between making a game challenging and making a game annoying.


You really think whatever change they make is going to amount to, "push button, receive perfect intel as was previously provided by local?" Really?

You're too stupid to warrant further acknowledgement.

Catheryn Martobi
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:37:00 - [55]
 

This is the strongest argument I have seen against removing local, but it's still worth it if for nothing more than hurting bots. It will do more good than harm.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:37:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Toovhon
I don't see a problem with local as it stands.


The problem with local is that the only thing you have to do to get perfect intel on the pilots in a system is show up and look at the chat window.


So you think we should have to push button to get the intel?

There is a difference between making a game challenging and making a game annoying.
The word from CCP Zulu is that we're getting new intel tools to help mitigate the loss of instant local. I'm hoping those new tools don't act like the intel god-mode that is the current local.


So how would it be different? Require us to warp around a system several times while spamming a button like a moron just to figure out it's empty?

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:44:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 14/07/2011 04:33:59
Originally by: Llambda
Edited by: Llambda on 14/07/2011 03:36:42
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Toovhon
I don't see a problem with local as it stands.


The problem with local is that the only thing you have to do to get perfect intel on the pilots in a system is show up and look at the chat window.


So you think we should have to push button to get the intel?

There is a difference between making a game challenging and making a game annoying.


You really think whatever change they make is going to amount to, "push button, receive perfect intel as was previously provided by local?" Really?

You're too stupid to warrant further acknowledgement.


Local tells you who is in that system - if anybody. Thats it. This is supposedly monitored by concord and they share this info. Thats supposedly why you can't jump gates when you have aggression timers etc.

Local does not give you perfect intel. It does not tell you where people are nor does it tell you what ships they are in or even if they are docked or cloaked.

Nemesis Factor
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:51:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Nemesis Factor on 14/07/2011 03:52:09
Originally by: jackaloped

So how would it be different? Require us to warp around a system several times while spamming a button like a moron just to figure out it's empty?


Yes. That would be optimal. IMO, if your looking for a fight, acknowledge your presence in local (my vision has a WH like local). If your looking for PVE targets then you have an advantage. what's the problem? you don't want to announce your there?

Edit: From what I can see, the people who do not want it removed want to be able to find roaming gangs to fight for fun. In a WH like local you just have to say 'any gangs here' in local and wait for a response while flying through.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:56:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
What do we mean by "implemented right"?
To be honest, even if it's implemented wrong, as in industrialists will no longer be able to effectively go about their activities in lo/null sec, it won't take long to "fix" the problem. Because even though the gankbears don't have the hindsight to see it, they will be crying once the only encounters they're finding are other blobs of cloaked gankbears, of which neither uncloaks until the other does, and so ensues the local smack battles.

If it's done wrong you'll see nothing but cloaked blobs jumping gate after gate looking for prey that will either have learned their lesson or simply ran out of isk to continue being rash.

On the other hand, if it's done right, there WILL still be a thriving industrial life in 0.0 sec. And hopefully, the defender will still have an advantage with the necessary upgrades, as it's being hinted. Lo sec will prolly still just be lo sec and there won't be much change other than more smack among cloaked pirates wanting the other side to uncloak first.

But I believe that either way, it will be implemented right simply because this change can end up severely breaking the game.


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:56:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: jackaloped


So how would it be different? Require us to warp around a system several times while spamming a button like a moron just to figure out it's empty?

Obviously some degree of automation is one of the requirements for this new intel tool. A limited effective range is another requirement, to make it less effective than Local. There's actually a long list of what I would consider to be required of this new system. But we just won't know until CCP decides to shed some light on their design.

And yes, warping around a system looks to be one option you could chose with no Local intel. Good thing there is also the map, ss information, jb routes, popular outposts, etc. to make the job of finding a target a little less chaotic.


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