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blankseplocked Nerfing wormholes again??? Really CCP?
 
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:33:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

You do realize that a solo guy can claim a wh, unless some great force really hates you no one will bother to remove you and your pos.


You show me a solo guy in a hole and I'll show you someone returning from a trip to empire to find his hole closed behind him, or at best, someone that has his resources drained on a nearly daily basis by people raiding from other holes. If all you have left in your hole is mining and PI, you will eventually fail.

VaMei
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:42:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Forgotten Heathen
Mineral prices haven't soared or crashed recently, they've had a slow upward slope since alot of macroers got banned. If huge amounts of minerals were being dumped from wormholes, basic economics would tell us that the market was being diluted from a source, and then we could point some fingers.

Since this, in fact, isn't happening, it sure looks like people *read CSMs* are trying to get their personal areas and income streams buffed.


Zyd, Mega & Morph have been falling ever since the Dom & Apoc expansions gave ABC to the masses. While they're still trending down, you can't see the big fall on the one year graph.

Anyone that's new to producing high ends (like in the last 2 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:44:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: VaMei
Originally by: Forgotten Heathen
Mineral prices haven't soared or crashed recently, they've had a slow upward slope since alot of macroers got banned. If huge amounts of minerals were being dumped from wormholes, basic economics would tell us that the market was being diluted from a source, and then we could point some fingers.

Since this, in fact, isn't happening, it sure looks like people *read CSMs* are trying to get their personal areas and income streams buffed.


Zyd, Mega & Morph have been falling ever since the Dom & Apoc expansions gave ABC to the masses. While they're still trending down, you can't see the big fall on the one year graph.

Anyone that's new to producing high ends (like in the last 2 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago.



Anyone that's new to producing low ends (like in the last 3 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago.

Because they were double.

So why don't CCP nerf mining some more? ****it, from now on you can only get ore from aurum and reprocessing.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:00:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: VaMei

Zyd, Mega & Morph have been falling ever since the Dom & Apoc expansions gave ABC to the masses. While they're still trending down, you can't see the big fall on the one year graph.

Anyone that's new to producing high ends (like in the last 2 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago.



So the mass amounts of minerals being pulled out of null by the mega-alliances and their bot-fleets needs to be dealt with then... not the miniscule (by comparison) amounts of minerals that come from wormhole space. Hell, most minerals never even leave the hole. You mine what you need and do other things.

Beauregard Jackson
Minmatar
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM
Army of Dark Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:02:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Neuralyzer
Edited by: Neuralyzer on 13/07/2011 22:19:03
Personally, I think its ridiculous that wormholes have the best rats. We should move sleepers to nullsec space and just install crappy agents in WHs since they're overly secure, and don't require the massive military might to hold like nullsec does. In fact, nullsec should be the only area that has any way to make money. L4s should be removed, WHs closed, and only Omber will be left to mine in high/low/WH space.


Obvious troll is obvious.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:04:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Beauregard Jackson

Obvious troll is obvious.


Obvious meme is obvious-er.

Casanunda
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:06:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Casanunda on 14/07/2011 17:10:10
Mining in WH space is something most people only do when they need materials for construction. Grav sites are not static unlike kspace belts, they appear rarely. Ore is bulky to store I've seen several small WH POS that consist mainly of corporate hangars just to store ore. Refining nerfs your POS fitting and fuel not to mention the crappy effiency of refining in a POS.

That's before you even get down to the logistics of exporting any surplus minerals due to mass limits on whs.

Speaking of mass limits, if you're in a C1 and want to mine, you either assemble your hulk in the WH or build it, there's no way you're getting it in under it's own steam and when you leave, it either gets destroyed or left behind, same with a Rorqual or anything else thats bigger than a battlecruiser (this applies to C1 whs only).

The people who state that wormhole life is risk free seriously need to try it out for themselves, a Hisec or Losec outgoing static pretty much guarantees roving gank-gangs or oppurtunists hoping for a quick buck by killing some sleepers if you're daft enough to open it when you don't need to.

Then you have K162 incomings that can be from anywhere, null, losec, hisec or other wormholes, these visitors can and will strip the sleeper sites, gank you on sight, open your unopened static deposit their own POS and generally try and make life difficult.

There is no concord, there are no allies/blues to hold your hand if things get hard & there is no logisitics chain thats easily accessible.

Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:25:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: VaMei
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
You do know that a wh system have limited amount of anomalies and sites right? And that the respawn rate is very slow. So camping/farming the same system 24/7 as you so nice put it, would make you very poor in the end.


You do know that WHs have links to other WHs right? And that WH corps farm the random connected systems before collapsing the hole and getting another one.



It was mentioned claim and camp/farm a system you settled. Not the systems static. Farming a static isn't always that easy. Sometimes when open up a new one, you find more than you bargain for. And you certainly don't mine your static, thats just crazy.

raker
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:42:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Casanunda
Edited by: Casanunda on 14/07/2011 17:10:10
Mining in WH space is something most people only do when they need materials for construction. Grav sites are not static unlike kspace belts, they appear rarely. Ore is bulky to store I've seen several small WH POS that consist mainly of corporate hangars just to store ore. Refining nerfs your POS fitting and fuel not to mention the crappy effiency of refining in a POS.

That's before you even get down to the logistics of exporting any surplus minerals due to mass limits on whs.

Speaking of mass limits, if you're in a C1 and want to mine, you either assemble your hulk in the WH or build it, there's no way you're getting it in under it's own steam and when you leave, it either gets destroyed or left behind, same with a Rorqual or anything else thats bigger than a battlecruiser (this applies to C1 whs only).

The people who state that wormhole life is risk free seriously need to try it out for themselves, a Hisec or Losec outgoing static pretty much guarantees roving gank-gangs or oppurtunists hoping for a quick buck by killing some sleepers if you're daft enough to open it when you don't need to.

Then you have K162 incomings that can be from anywhere, null, losec, hisec or other wormholes, these visitors can and will strip the sleeper sites, gank you on sight, open your unopened static deposit their own POS and generally try and make life difficult.

There is no concord, there are no allies/blues to hold your hand if things get hard & there is no logisitics chain thats easily accessible.



I agree with the quote above

I live in a C4, mining in a WH is only done when you need to build a ship. for example a carrier

The logistics of mining vast amounts and getting it to high sec (the market) is very risky and not worth the risk

WH space is generally used for the sleeper sites and the pvp , the ore just allows us to be able to build ships in the system that we cant fly in (mass at gates)

WH space is imo the hardest space in game, no local, no market, borders that change daily and can change in an hr, and are always going to be hostile

Leave us a way to build the ships we need in system to defend our systems

btw I'll say again for those who may of missed the point, WH gates have limited mass, you cannot fly all ships thro all gates


Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:01:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Jaigar on 14/07/2011 18:01:42
Also if you don't know, wormhole is a place where a lot of older and experienced players go who are tired of the null-sec and low-sec blobs/nonsense. So you have this interesting mixture of newer players and vets in a more casual setting than either of the former two and offers a different type of player interaction than null.

On another note: collasping a wormhole can be done with zero chance of ending up on the wrong side if you understand deviation and the mass % warnings.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:10:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

You do realize that a solo guy can claim a wh, unless some great force really hates you no one will bother to remove you and your pos.


You show me a solo guy in a hole and I'll show you someone returning from a trip to empire to find his hole closed behind him, or at best, someone that has his resources drained on a nearly daily basis by people raiding from other holes. If all you have left in your hole is mining and PI, you will eventually fail.


1. Leave an alt in a probing ship, it doesn't take a lot time to train a second character on your account just for probing if it comes to that.
2. Raiding is not so bad as you think and even if it was unless you have people online on all time zones there's no way to prevent it. And if you do have that many people then anything not c5 or c6 wont support such population.

Harpalyce Dynameos
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:53:00 - [102]
 

Really I don't understand the difference... W-space is 0.0 space without sovereignty... but I do remember Mittens and Zulu gettin' on with their "ego" stroking for lack of a better PG term... I think if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of where these high end minerals come from I'd be looking long and hard at mission runners refining their loot, personally in my wh corp mining is the last thing we do as there are much more profitable things to be doing with our time.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:57:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: fixed
I live in a C4, mining in a WH is only done when *I* need to build a ship. for example a carrier

The logistics of mining vast amounts and getting it to high sec (the market) is very risky and not worth the risk *to me*


Play in the sandbox how you wish, but don't include everyone. Thanks.

raker
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:51:00 - [104]
 

I would like to see the figures of the actual population of players that reside in WH's

My bet is less than 5%

Its has already been pointed out in this thread that mining in WH space , is mainly not profitable esp in the lower end WH's C1, C2 , C3 as these WH's have high traffic and have a lower gate mass and are more prone to be ganked

So, how can such a small % of players have such a large impact on the ore market

I feel that the real impact on the market is the 0.0 and null sec allainces that do manage to mine for profit and the "much understood" WH population is going to take the hit because of the low % of chars in it


Listar Jombardo
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:12:00 - [105]
 

Any 00 POS past 1 should cost 1 Billion/Day
Any outpost past 1 should cost 100 Billion/Day
Systems with more then 1 day where noone killed a NPC, mined, did any moon/planet activity should reset it's claim status to NOT CLAIMED.

For every corp past 2 a ally has to pay 100 bil/month
For every 100 members a corp has to pay 100 bil/month

Nerv all 00, nerv all mega allys, nerv all mega corps !!

Nerv all except the stuff I do ....

^current CSM style !

Morganta
Posted - 2011.07.15 01:14:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Casanunda
Edited by: Casanunda on 14/07/2011 17:10:10
Mining in WH space is something most people only do when they need materials for construction. Grav sites are not static unlike kspace belts, they appear rarely. Ore is bulky to store I've seen several small WH POS that consist mainly of corporate hangars just to store ore. Refining nerfs your POS fitting and fuel not to mention the crappy effiency of refining in a POS.

That's before you even get down to the logistics of exporting any surplus minerals due to mass limits on whs.

Speaking of mass limits, if you're in a C1 and want to mine, you either assemble your hulk in the WH or build it, there's no way you're getting it in under it's own steam and when you leave, it either gets destroyed or left behind, same with a Rorqual or anything else thats bigger than a battlecruiser (this applies to C1 whs only).

The people who state that wormhole life is risk free seriously need to try it out for themselves, a Hisec or Losec outgoing static pretty much guarantees roving gank-gangs or oppurtunists hoping for a quick buck by killing some sleepers if you're daft enough to open it when you don't need to.

Then you have K162 incomings that can be from anywhere, null, losec, hisec or other wormholes, these visitors can and will strip the sleeper sites, gank you on sight, open your unopened static deposit their own POS and generally try and make life difficult.

There is no concord, there are no allies/blues to hold your hand if things get hard & there is no logisitics chain thats easily accessible.



totally this ^

I really don't get where they come up with the idea that a WH is a magical sack that pours out endless quantities of ABC.

and whoever said its pretty much 0.0 with no sov... well sort of, but no. in 0.0 you have local and you know where the gate is every day.
you also know who lives around you in 0.0, you have no such luxury in the hole, you don't know what to expect moment to moment and day to day.
0.0 is very predictable at times, in a WH the only predictable event is that someone will be coming to gank you or raid your sites.

Seline Okaski
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.07.15 02:08:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Casanunda
Edited by: Casanunda on 14/07/2011 17:10:10
Mining in WH space is something most people only do when they need materials for construction. Grav sites are not static unlike kspace belts, they appear rarely. Ore is bulky to store I've seen several small WH POS that consist mainly of corporate hangars just to store ore. Refining nerfs your POS fitting and fuel not to mention the crappy effiency of refining in a POS.



Actually, from reading some of the CSM comments, it almost seems like they think we have static belts in WH space, that every scanned belt in every WH has tons of ABC ore to mine and that there are always scanned grav sites popping up like weeds.

Blind leading the blind straight to their own ISK accounts, me thinks.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 03:00:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Seline Okaski
Originally by: Casanunda
Edited by: Casanunda on 14/07/2011 17:10:10
Mining in WH space is something most people only do when they need materials for construction. Grav sites are not static unlike kspace belts, they appear rarely. Ore is bulky to store I've seen several small WH POS that consist mainly of corporate hangars just to store ore. Refining nerfs your POS fitting and fuel not to mention the crappy effiency of refining in a POS.



Actually, from reading some of the CSM comments, it almost seems like they think we have static belts in WH space, that every scanned belt in every WH has tons of ABC ore to mine and that there are always scanned grav sites popping up like weeds.

Blind leading the blind straight to their own ISK accounts, me thinks.


Pretty much this. They're used to an endless bot-parade of ores flowing in and think wormholes share that same grotesque luxury. Can you imagine the groans and tears if these clowns actually had to earn their isk?

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.15 03:15:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Demon Azrakel
Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 13/07/2011 22:44:17
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Mrs Pwnage
Originally by: Demon Azrakel
Not sure how many people mine in w-space, but, given how rarely we come across them, I think it is rather few. If you are searching for a location to blame an excess of high-end minerals on, check the upper-right-hand corner of the map.


I came across an orca and 3x hulks jumping in a WH yesterday. Killed a bunch of cruisers and BS with mining crap fitted at a dead POS about two weeks ago; they do it. It's like everything else in WH's, catching them in the act is the problem.


Doubtful. Orcas are not something that you casually take into wormholes to mine with. Orcas you see in holes are there to provide bonuses to mining ops from within the relative safety of pos shields, or to haul large amounts of goods in our out (pos's, arrays, etc.). You can scan an orca nearly instantly with probes, then it's munching time.

We've, without exaggerating, never had anyone come in and try to mine a grav site. First, they'd have to find one. Then they'd have to deal with the Sleeper rats. Then they'd have to mine without someone making their ships go Boom.

Let's say you did see that... it would be exceedingly rare, and stupid.


We have had some really bored people mine in our alliance, but it is very rare. If they are worried about it being too safe, limit C1's to small poses and c2-4 to medium poses. Not too sure what to do about caps in C1-C4 though. A lot of the time the pilots screw up and provide great killmails though.

+1 use for orca, collapsing wormholes


Had an orca in our space recently, he was doing exactly that (collapsing WH's)... except he got stuck on the wrong side lol Damn did we give him a fright :)

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.07.15 03:22:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Headerman

Had an orca in our space recently, he was doing exactly that (collapsing WH's)... except he got stuck on the wrong side lol Damn did we give him a fright :)


Unexpected collapse of wormholes do result in a lot of funny situations. Situations where a lowly shuttle and a set of bookmarks can become valuable commodities.

Dario Kaelenter
Posted - 2011.07.15 09:18:00 - [111]
 

Repost
Originally by: Vandrion

Not on topic, but nah... you wouldn't even have to scan out the sites like you do in holes. Just fly a covops to the known belts, locate targets, ???, profit.

In wormholes you need to either scan the sites or the ships out... none of this carebear "asteroid belt" stuff.


And that's if u even get a Grav site for starters!
Our WH hasn't had a Grav site in almost 2 weeks now (and that's pretty frequent too!).
Then when we do get one we don't usually have time and resources to mine the whole thing out anyway.
And when mining in a wh grav site it's high risk and extra effort than hi sec or null sec mining as u need to constantly scan or lose ya ships/pods and then have to try and hope u get a good WH exit to get replacements and yourselves in... no clone jumping back to cosy alliance null sec station or Rorqual at null sec POS.

Then when the mining's done we have to get the ore to where we need/want it or refine at loss to use in WH.
Rorqual built in many WHs is pretty much stuck so that's a cost that needs to be covered also and we tend to use many of our minerals from WH mining to increase other production rather then dump on the market and play the .1 isk war to get isk faster than any other seller Confused

And the principles of economics do suggest that once the supply increases to a level where the price is so low that people can no longer see the return for their effort then they will switch to an alternative source of income.
In Eve the demand isn't unlimited either which is also why the price falls fast though the actual sales of minerals isn't necessarily increasing ... in fact if you look at Zydrine then the price had declined over the past 6 months though the sales volumes are pretty much the same over the past year - there is no big increase in volume (except for a one off peek on the Domain market).

Megacyte on the other hand would contradict their claim as the price in the past month has actually increased and is actually a noticeable amount higher than it was a year ago.
Sure it did have a jump in price around Dec to Feb though as this mineral primarily comes from mining ores in null sec and now WHs outside of the Drone alloys and recycling mods from mission loot (which I recall CCP's economist saying was a small % of the total source of megacyte).
And again the sales volumes are pretty linear over the past year.

Then there's Nocxium which also may have come down a little in recent months but it had jumped up quite considerably in price after CCP tinkering back in Dec 2010. Volumes again are pretty consistent and again this is quite plentiful in the WH ores (crokite, hemorphite & hedbergite) so if there is a question of removing WH ores due to Mineral prices falling then why just ABCs and not Hem and Hed too as these have high quantities of Nocxium which also has fallen in price ?

And lastly we have Morphite which is only sometimes found in WHs or 0.0. If WH ores were to blame for decreases in mineral prices then why has Morphite not crashed in price also ?
Sure it is only found in the exceptional WH grav sites and does require additional not often used skills (outside null sec) though this is an additional source apart from drone alloys. Sure it has slightly decreased in the past 2 months though it has in the past been lower.

tl;dr
CCP really need to look at the actual data and see that the markets aren't really crashing due to WH ores rather than jump to a knee jerk reaction of removing ores from places.
Some decreases in mineral prices may have been due to final recovery from their last course of tinkering.

Maybe they should look more at adjusting the total ore units of some roids that yield Zydrine. And while price decreases can be good for the economy I'd tend 2 spend my time mining roids with minerals other than Zydrine ...

Sinikka Huiputti
Posted - 2011.07.15 11:28:00 - [112]
 

i dont know if c1 or c2 have high ends but they really shouldn't cos they're like hi sec holes.

wh's are not simply 0.0 because they might just have like constant hi sec exits which makes them much more comfortable than real 0.0 where you most likely need to go much deeper to find good hi end mining system.

Oskari Hakkinen
Posted - 2011.07.15 11:40:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Oskari Hakkinen on 15/07/2011 11:40:27
If only for a decent CSM rep that understood wormholes, You can keep your K space politics and nap fests thanks. Mining is not really efficient in wormholes as mentioned above, Ok you can build a Rorq but there are better ways to make isk than sitting in a bunch of expensive hulks waiting to be ganked from that K162 you didnt notice or the cloaky T3 that scanned you down and bookmarked your can ready to drop a fleet on your head.

Besides most wh corps other than the ones that turtle the second they see a core probe are mostly just roaming for kills and only run PVE when there isnt a 0.01% chance of killing somone..usually mining!

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 11:58:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti
i dont know if c1 or c2 have high ends but they really shouldn't cos they're like hi sec holes.

wh's are not simply 0.0 because they might just have like constant hi sec exits which makes them much more comfortable than real 0.0 where you most likely need to go much deeper to find good hi end mining system.



You... you really have no idea what the hell you're talking about, do you. (No, not a question.)

Holes with static highs are actually more dangerous than those without due to the ease of access of outsiders coming in looking for kills. Null doesn't have that problem... they're all cozy tucked deep inside alliance space with constant gates, local, etc. keeping constant watch and control over who's in their system. No such luxury in wormholes. At any time, a hole can appear from somewhere else and visitors slip on in to see what's happening. Holes with highs tend to become traffic lanes for "higher" holes looking for access to empire to move materials back and forth as well, further reducing security and "comfort". You have it completely bass-ackwards. Null should have to deal with the issues wormholes would... but then again, they likely couldn't handle it.

Casanunda
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:54:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Casanunda on 16/07/2011 09:19:04

Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti
i dont know if c1 or c2 have high ends but they really shouldn't cos they're like hi sec holes.

wh's are not simply 0.0 because they might just have like constant hi sec exits which makes them much more comfortable than real 0.0 where you most likely need to go much deeper to find good hi end mining system.



Clue, you need to get one.

WH's with a hisec or losec static are probably the most dangerous space in Eve, every man, his dog and his mother that scans the kspace side of the wh likes to pop in to see what's there, if they see miners they will organise a gank squad, if they see people running sites they will organise a gank squad, if no one is active they will organise a squad to pillage the sleeper sites.

There is no local to use for intel, people don't appear in local unless they talk in local, nobody at all is visible in a WH until
  • They surprise buttsex you
  • They talk in local
  • They appear on the directional scan
  • They uncloak and appear on the directional scan
  • Their probes appear on the directional scan
  • Or they're members of your corp in the corp channel


With a hisec static you tend to get the hisec wardec corps wanting to pad their killboards without having to pay for a wardec or risk of getting Concordokken. You have the oppurtunist carebears that fancy something more challenging than running scripted lvl 4 missions, the tears wh dwellers see from these people when their woefully inadequate fits go pop have to be seen to be believed. On top of the hisec visitors you get people using your wormhole as a highway to hisec from their own wormhole that's deeper in the network.

For losec static see above, less the risk of hisec wardec corps, instead everybody with a gun feels that you're fair game.

Even a lowly C1 wormhole with a kspace static would cause a lot of so called nullsec dwellers to have nightmares, the risks can be an awful lot higher when you're not in control of your borders, have no consistent exit and aren't surrounded by blues.

edited for grammar (I hope Smile)

Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:09:00 - [116]
 

People seem to forget the time investment that must go into mining in a wormhole. Its not like k-space where you click that little asteriod belt icon, check your overview for desirable rocks, then move on to the next. If you are "day-tripping", you are going to have to spend some time finding a WH (5-30 minutes generally, depending on luck and skill), then once inside you are going to have to scan EVERY sig out, including all wormholes within that wormhole to access the risk. Then on top of that, to move all your ore out you have to do 2+ jumps which results in 4 minute 30 second timers so you can't just mine a few cans and move all your stuff ASAP.

So your logistics time to move ore out is more than doubled compared to K-space, and the time you have to scan and secure a system AND get back into your indy ships is normally between 20-60 minutes. And on top of that, you might have to bring a combat ship in to clear the rats in the sites (if you don't have the best combat skills/drone skills). So you spend roughly an hour setting up to mine maybe 1-3 grav sites worth of arkanor, which total about 4-6 hours of mining total. And if you don't own the WH, its not wise to bring an orca unless you ninja-setup a small pos (which cuts slightly into your profits). Long story short, theres a lot of logistical work that must be done in a WH to even start mining if you "daytrip".

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:43:00 - [117]
 

Still the CSM fails to appear and attempt to justify their basis for wanting ABC nerfed in WHs. Still CCP ignores the topic altogher.

Sad.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.15 23:38:00 - [118]
 

Back to the front!

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.16 05:21:00 - [119]
 

Maybe the wormholes alliances should start ****posting in CAOD, that tends to get attention, or at least overpower the null whines. :P

Tarinara
Posted - 2011.07.16 05:28:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: VaMei
Originally by: Forgotten Heathen
Mineral prices haven't soared or crashed recently, they've had a slow upward slope since alot of macroers got banned. If huge amounts of minerals were being dumped from wormholes, basic economics would tell us that the market was being diluted from a source, and then we could point some fingers.

Since this, in fact, isn't happening, it sure looks like people *read CSMs* are trying to get their personal areas and income streams buffed.


Zyd, Mega & Morph have been falling ever since the Dom & Apoc expansions gave ABC to the masses. While they're still trending down, you can't see the big fall on the one year graph.

Anyone that's new to producing high ends (like in the last 2 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago.



Anyone that's new to producing low ends (like in the last 3 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago.

Because they were double.

So why don't CCP nerf mining some more? ****it, from now on you can only get ore from aurum and reprocessing.

Wait ... I thought that's why they nerfed L4 missions because us ebil mission runner were out producing miners by reprocessing our junk loot drops.


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