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Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:39:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Van Cleef on 13/07/2011 17:39:53
The history of the Caldari people is a history of struggle. From our cultural founding, born from competition and conflict with the Gallente people locked in a single solar system, to the forced joining of a government to the then later destruction of our home world.

Left with very little, in exile from our nation, we had to rebuild. Exiled our people underwent a tremendous change. Separated from our traditional roots we moved beyond them. We are not dots on a map, we are a culture, a way of life, something that no starship can remove, no turret can kill.

Our government was shattered and unable to meet the needs of the people. The concept of a one person, one branch government, was removed. The mega corporations stood up, and we established a government based on service, pushing ourselves to become better, faster, cheaper and more efficient. We understood service and hard work would lead to something greater. Hard work could achieve tasks that could lead to great strides in both the economic and technological arenas. We went from refugees to one of the greatest people in the New Eden universe.

Several years ago major changes took place with the Caldari State. The establishment of competition of separation of power was lost. We returned to the conventional centralized government that failed us once before. With this we see the return of the concept that "good" is good enough, and great requires too much. As a group CAIN has attempted to resist this turn in our government, attempting to cling to the core traditional values that saved us as a people. We tried to separate ourselves from politics and did what soldiers do, we fought. CAIN spent just over two years on the front lines defending the State, all while trying to prevent what we believe is a degradation of us as a culture, as a people.

Finally the State cut ties with us, closed our diplomatic channels. We had no voice. After almost 7 years of service, of dedication, we were cast off. Something of that level would have destroyed most other corporations, but we found hope in a passage of historical archives. The passage described The Fourth District.

The Fourth District was an idea of a new district to the State. This District was going to be a new opportunity for the people of the State. A place where new chances of profit, new avenues for advancement could happen. The Fourth District was not centered around a geographical area, it was an idea of space outside of recognized State space. The State was unable to make The Fourth District happen, but the idea that it gave birth to was something that we saw as an opportunity. A opportunity for us to again serve the Caldari people, not a geographical border, but our culture, our people and our future.

It was with that idea that we found The Fourth District Alliance. If we could no longer influence change with the State, what would be more Caldari than to compete with the State. The Fourth District would be a beacon for all people who valued the traditional historical values that made the State great. We have created a area where we can maintain those values, those traditions. We can form an institution that will keep our culture of who we are alive. We will prove through actions that our way of life is the way of the future for us as a people. We are Caldari. We are The Fourth Distict.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:26:00 - [2]
 

Interesting. So does this mean that the entire alliance hereby rejects the authority of the Provist regime and in effect seeks to create a state within a State?

I might have to keep my eye on this development.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.13 20:56:00 - [3]
 

Van Cleef,
sometimes you need to scatter, sometimes to gather together.The time directs us to choices we must take.

The competition of separated powers made us strong. It was, and it is still, the best way to become stronger. But now the times has changed and Caldari need to apply obtained strength. And for this objective you need to gather everything into one fist and strike with full power, sweeping away all obstacles on your way.

Until you understand it, you will stay as outcast.

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:19:00 - [4]
 

The Fourth is not a State within a State, it is a State outside a State. I know many people who may be igonorant of CAIN's history, service and situation with the State may think this is a rash move. CAIN's service to the State spans many years and outdates many capsulers in their birth dates.

Cmdr Baxter
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
The competition of separated powers made us strong. It was, and it is still, the best way to become stronger. But now the times has changed and Caldari need to apply obtained strength. And for this objective you need to gather everything into one fist and strike with full power, sweeping away all obstacles on your way.

Until you understand it, you will stay as outcast.

Speaking personally, and as a former CAIN pilot, your ignorance knows no bounds. Read into CAIN's history before contributing to discussion. Now run away and let your elders talk. You do remember the meaning of respect, don't you, Kim-haani?

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:46:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Van Cleef
The Fourth is not a State within a State, it is a State outside a State.


Heh, that clarification just made it all the more interesting.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:04:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Seriphyn Inhonores on 14/07/2011 00:03:56
Never mind the fact that the "struggle of the Caldari" could not hold a candle to the struggle of the Minmatar, but is Black Rise not the Fourth District of the State, now?

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:46:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Van Cleef
Several years ago major changes took place with the Caldari State. The establishment of competition of separation of power was lost. We returned to the conventional centralized government that failed us once before. With this we see the return of the concept that "good" is good enough, and great requires too much. As a group CAIN has attempted to resist this turn in our government, attempting to cling to the core traditional values that saved us as a people.

I continue to disagree with you Admiral, but I see no reason to rehash a discussion we had over two years ago.

Originally by: Van Cleef
It was with that idea that we found The Fourth District Alliance. If we could no longer influence change with the State, what would be more Caldari than to compete with the State. The Fourth District would be a beacon for all people who valued the traditional historical values that made the State great. We have created a area where we can maintain those values, those traditions. We can form an institution that will keep our culture of who we are alive. We will prove through actions that our way of life is the way of the future for us as a people. We are Caldari. We are The Fourth Distict.

Time will tell whether 4TH does indeed embrace the values still present in the State (in my opinion) or whether it implements the kind of regime everyone accuses KK's CEO of implementing in the State, despite at least one high profile instance of traditional corporate rivalry and other possibles.

Originally by: Van Cleef
The Fourth is not a State within a State, it is a State outside a State.

Moitte 4TH.

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.14 01:03:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
Edited by: Seriphyn Inhonores on 14/07/2011 00:03:56
Never mind the fact that the "struggle of the Caldari" could not hold a candle to the struggle of the Minmatar, but is Black Rise not the Fourth District of the State, now?


If you believe The Fourth District is a geographical marker, then you missed the entire point and I wish you good day sir.


Aquila Shadow
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 01:25:00 - [10]
 

Admiral, i think that the formation of the forth district is a good idea as it gives caldari people that want to go back to the old ways a place to go without being accused of treason in the State itself, But one thing i belive that you are missing is a fundimental value of what it means to be a warrior. I have read the history of what CAIN has done for the state before going of into 0.0 space because of your differences with the new state leadership, A warrior follows orders no matter who is in command at the time, Look at the Admiral of the Caldari navy, she did not like the fact that Tibus was taking command of the State but she excepted this fact and followed orders, we dont get to pick and choose who leads us in the state but that is a burdon that we carry as a United people, it is the same in the military we dont get to choose who leads us but we will follow there orders like they were said by EVE gate itself, dont throw this away because of pety rivalres. What CAIN did would have been declered treason in any other Empire in New Eden but you were given a second chance to serve the state once more and once again you have thrown it away. This time i fear that CAIN has gone to far.

Beware Admiral, remember what happened to the last group of people that seperated from the state to form their own utopia.

Regards, AQ

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.14 01:33:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Aquila Shadow
Admiral, i think that the formation of the forth district is a good idea as it gives caldari people that want to go back to the old ways a place to go without being accused of treason in the State itself, But one thing i belive that you are missing is a fundimental value of what it means to be a warrior. I have read the history of what CAIN has done for the state before going of into 0.0 space because of your differences with the new state leadership, A warrior follows orders no matter who is in command at the time, Look at the Admiral of the Caldari navy, she did not like the fact that Tibus was taking command of the State but she excepted this fact and followed orders, we dont get to pick and choose who leads us in the state but that is a burdon that we carry as a United people, it is the same in the military we dont get to choose who leads us but we will follow there orders like they were said by EVE gate itself, dont throw this away because of pety rivalres. What CAIN did would have been declered treason in any other Empire in New Eden but you were given a second chance to serve the state once more and once again you have thrown it away. This time i fear that CAIN has gone to far.

Beware Admiral, remember what happened to the last group of people that seperated from the state to form their own utopia.

Regards, AQ



Pfffft......


Oh wait, you are serious about that rambling?

Pfffft........

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.14 04:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Baxter
Speaking personally, and as a former CAIN pilot, your ignorance knows no bounds. Read into CAIN's history before contributing to discussion. Now run away and let your elders talk. You do remember the meaning of respect, don't you, Kim-haani?


Indeed, I do, and it contradicts with trolling about ignorance. If you have something to say to object me, why don't YOU read into your former employer's history and come back with more solid argument. Otherwise... just shut up, turn around and walk away...

...peacefully.

Zagamesh
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2011.07.14 11:51:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Zagamesh on 14/07/2011 12:00:12
Cleef-haan,

I believe I am able to say without reservation that I for one am not ignorant of the service history of the Caldari Independent Naval Reserve, indeed having shared in that history for a time in the battlefields of Black Rise, Placid, and Intaki as an opposing combatant whilst serving as a General in the Federal Defence Union.

It was during that period that I came to recognize in engagements with CAIN an opponent that was not only professional, disciplined and more than competent in executing its duties to the Caldari State on the frontlines of the conflict zone. I would even put forward that CAIN proved a critical factor in ensuring the subsequent occupation of all Federal territories as designated by the CEWPA and in particular the Intaki system.

It was a belief I held at the time and still retain to this day that the surprising departure of CAIN from the service of the State Protectorate was essential in allowing the Federal Defence Union to recapture lost territores. A surprising departure perhaps only in that I am only a businessman and knowledge in the field of politics even in the Federation let alone that of the State always did appear to escape me.

However, even as certain unforeseen circumstances in the Federation have made me far more amenable to conduct my business and pursue particular interests in the Caldari State I still find myself ignorant on the intricacies of State politics. I am rather curious on the reformation of the Fourth District and the current policies of the Caldari Independent Naval Reserve if only in my admittedly limited knowledge of the State it is an action and a stance that appears to be outside the norm of what might be expected from a former Gallentean Federalist such as myself.

My apologies if I misunderstand you, Cleef-haan, there are barriers of political ignorance and culture after all but would I be correct in saying that CAIN and by extension the Fourth District initiative it has currently launched are a counter-action against the appointment of the current Kaalakiota CEO as State Executor by the Chief Executive Panel?

If that is so, would it be the CEO of Kaalakiota himself, Kaalakiota Corporation or rather the position of State Executor itself that are perceived as being inimical to ensuring Megacorporate detente and competition in the State and untoward centralization of power (Or rather an increase in tyrannical despotism if I were to borrow what has been in vogue with Federal apologists and propagandists) in the Chief Executive Panel?

I can certainly appreciate how the current balance of power in the Chief Executive Panel on the side of Kaalakiota Corporation and the Caldari Providence Directorate would be a cause of concern for those that do not wish to risk the State entering into a similar power structure as that of the Federation. The danger of the CPD securing a popular revolution aimed at combating what it terms, "Megacorporate corruption" Only to implement a system of overarching central government and the attendant political, bureaucratic and corporate corruption that the Caldari State fought its first revolution to escape from in the Gallente Federation.

I may have misunderstood yet again, Cleef-haan, and I seem to have rambled on here, but if it is for that strength of conviction and independence of spirit that the Caldari are known for that CAIN and the Fourth District initiative seek to promote outside of the State then it would be difficult to fault.

May Fortune favour your work.

-Gessenier.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.07.14 13:26:00 - [14]
 


I think it could be time we had a talk Van Cleef.

Alain Colcer
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:19:00 - [15]
 

Do my eyes deceive me? is that you Zagamesh?

I was told you were death......what farce is this?.


Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:29:00 - [16]
 

Patriotism has always been strong in the Caldari people, it must rise from our sense of service. I can understand why certain elements can not understand why a declared State loyalist group would want to not only leave the service of the State but create a competitor State.

If I was on the other side of this arguement three, four, five years ago I too would look upon these events with suspicion and treason. What many people do not understand is the journey which lead to these actions. CAIN has a long service history in the State, a service history that outdates most pod pilots active in New Eden. I have had conversations with the highest heads of the State government over the years, CAIN has participated in offical and non-offical State activties that cost CAIN considerably. For our YEARS of service, we get this.

A State group has left service before, they later became known as the Gurista pirates. The difference here is that the District was created as an alternative to any form of violence. The District is not a place for people who wish to fight against the State, we have no plans and no intentions on initiating violence against the exact people we wish to help.

To that end The Fourth District has claimed an area in the Providence Region, an no-security classified area of space. We will continue to operate there for as long as the region serves the need of the Alliance.


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:26:00 - [17]
 

I have many fond memories of working with CAIN in the past, and I look forward to watching the progress of the Fourth District in the future.

Vendrin
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.07.15 03:54:00 - [18]
 

A state outside the State, so far away from the Caldari State? A pity you decided to set up shop down near the Amarr instead of Pure Blind or Geminate.

In any case, the best of luck. I hope you do actually manage to build something worthwhile.

Nakito Yakiya
Caldari
Yamagata Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:04:00 - [19]
 

I wish you good luck with this venture and I hope contacts within the State will remain strong.

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2011.07.16 02:03:00 - [20]
 

The placement of The Fourth District has no bearing on current State borders, the selection was based on what was good for The Fourth District exclusively. We have no offical contact with the State, and a similar geographic location would not be useful.

Commissar Veldt
Caldari
Progressive State
Posted - 2011.07.16 11:29:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Commissar Veldt on 16/07/2011 11:30:06
Since serving under their leadership, I have always held CAIN and its pilots in high regard. They are dedicated, organised and are always willing to fight and die for what they believe in. Regardless of your political affiliations you must always give credit where it is due.

Their time spent serving the State alongside the 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit still fills communications channels with stories and questions. Many pilots find it hard to believe they had gained full military occupation of that many systems. Which is understandable when you consider the amount of, or shall I say lack of, dedication from some of todays State pilots.

At risk of alienating myself amongst my comrades I would like to say that Progressive State wishes CAIN and The Fourth District the very best in its endeavours.

Fly safe.


 

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