Posted - 2011.07.27 18:51:00 - [61]

 

Originally by: Ciar Meara

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The needs of the many outweigh the desires of the few...

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Hmm... always seems to me that the perceived "needs" of the few outweigh the desires of the many.

Posted - 2011.08.02 12:31:00 - [63]

 

Originally by: Fridarey

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Whereas in mine we have a million boats and million dreams. Strange how perceptions differ isn't it?

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Not very strange if you ask me, but regrettable. I guess it comes down to if you think it's "every man for himself" or if you think we're all in this together. :s

Posted - 2011.08.02 17:31:00 - [65]

 

Edited by: ChipMo on 02/08/2011 17:33:11

Originally by: Codo Yagari

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Not very strange if you ask me, but regrettable. I guess it comes down to if you think it's "every man for himself" or if you think we're all in this together. :s

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*ChipMo laughs

The ship metaphor was a poor one. In truth we are just discussing our perspective of the same reality. You claim to be 'in it together' but your not, your in your role for your own interests however opaque or obscure those buried interests may be. Us anarchists? We're the same just a bit more honest about it, we work together when it suits our interests and go our own way when it does not.

Edit: You may find it worthwhile to consider at what scale self-intrest becomes servitude.

Posted - 2011.08.04 04:10:00 - [67]

 

i rarely post anymore (though i suppose that seems to be changing) and i havn't had any success against fellow capsuleers in combat at all.... but i still have to say, the Star Fraction helps keep things interesting... and hell, maybe if CONCORD were gone, i would have the impetus i need to lose enough ships to learn how to kill a few, neh? Just imagine it... all of Empire space, one big Free-for-all! It would be like watching a sun explode i imagine... pretty until the radiation and searing lightwave hit.

Posted - 2011.08.06 02:31:00 - [69]

 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

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Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 05/08/2011 00:24:03
Governments use force, and a coercion through fear of force, to achieve their means.

Hence to attempt in achieving anarchy and resorting to force in such endeavors, it is to become a government.

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Your logic is flawed.

Just because Governments use force doesn't mean all organizations that use force are therefore Governments. That's ridiculous.

To illustrate: "Minmatar use two legs to walk, therefore all creatures that use two legs to walk are Minmatar."

See how that doesn't work?

An Anarchist governs only Himself.

Posted - 2011.08.08 18:16:00 - [71]

 

Originally by: Codo Yagari

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Edited by: Codo Yagari on 08/08/2011 11:40:58

What when the very cells of your body start to proclaim anarchy? Will you let them have their way? (i.e. your doom)

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Wonderful. Yet more inept metaphors from Mr.Yagari. 'Capsuleers are like people in a boat.' 'Capsuleers are like cells in a body.'

Ridiculous.

The only Capsuleers who resemble unthinking, reactionary cells in a body are those who subscribe to the outdated theories and agendas of the old empires. Perhaps you count yourself among them, Mr.Yagari. I do not.

We don't have to be this way.

We can be independent.
We can fly free.
We can be creative demi-gods, burning our own individual wills across the stars with the searing flames of our intellect.

That so many are shuttered and blinded to the possibility of true freedom and individual will, including yourself Mr.Yagari, is evidence that the revolution needs to, even MUST continue.

This is why I will never give up on the revolution.

Posted - 2011.08.09 14:12:00 - [73]

 

Originally by: Codo Yagari

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Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 10:38:34

You seek freedom, yet you do not seem to seek the answers to the question of the origin of our lives. In a sense your ambition is admirable, it is certainly better than being a drone that accepts all that is imposed upon him. But take my advise, you should seek the answers to the question of the mystery of this entire existence, instead of trying to make yourself demi-gods in it. You seek to be a demi-god, yet you have not the singlest clue how even your own body works. You really need to get down to the basics before you start to proclaim yourself universal masters. Try meditation and humbleness. Do that for a couple of years, then perhaps we can talk again.

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You presume far too much about my knowledge and desires, Mr.Yagari. I have no interest in being a 'universal master'. I seek only the freedom to do as I wish and the freedom for all to do so as well.

Posted - 2011.08.09 17:06:00 - [75]

 

Edited by: ChipMo on 09/08/2011 17:07:23

Originally by: Codo Yagari

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Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 10:38:34

You seek freedom, yet you do not seem to seek the answers to the question of the origin of our lives. In a sense your ambition is admirable, it is certainly better than being a drone that accepts all that is imposed upon him. But take my advise, you should seek the answers to the question of the mystery of this entire existence, instead of trying to make yourself demi-gods in it. You seek to be a demi-god, yet you have not the singlest clue how even your own body works. You really need to get down to the basics before you start to proclaim yourself universal masters. Try meditation and humbleness. Do that for a couple of years, then perhaps we can talk again.

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It is important to consider where we come from I'll give you that. However I would contest it is far more important to focus on what we currently inhabit, and what we want our future selves to inhabit. These are the things we experiance, things that are undeniably real.

The origins of life are rather imaterial, due to the liniar nature of time. Frankly, we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know... sure its nice to indulge in more ponder and reasoning, but its not all you make it out to be.

Look to the future my man, and work to shape it.

Posted - 2011.08.10 03:02:00 - [77]

 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

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I've always wondered a little about your ideals and why exactly you consider yourself opposed to freespace Mebrithiel Ju'wien. To be frank you have never seemed to type to embrace tyranny and enclosurist ideology.

I thank you for your words of support in any case. It is heartening.

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No, I'm not the type. I prefer to rule by setting an example and others doing what I tell them. I'm not especially demanding. I'd quite like people to get along, in relative peaceful chaos, so long as they know I'm in charge should anybody do something I dislike. Like shooting the poor little Covenant ships...

I'm a lot less, erm, structured than Revan and probably represent the element of chaos to her order. I mean, you should see my quarters! Absolute mess!

So yeah, Freespace and chaos sound great, so long as everyone knows I'm Queen B****

See?

Posted - 2011.08.11 11:02:00 - [79]

 

Originally by: Biife Stuhe

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You presume far too much about my knowledge and desires, Mr.Yagari. I have no interest in being a 'universal master'. I seek only the freedom to do as I wish and the freedom for all to do so as well.

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That is indeed a good intent. However, there are things so much more important than freedom. Such as compassion, wisdom, selflessness, etc. If your mind and spirit is free, something only you yourself can work to achieve, then why go blaming others for your imprisonment. Free your mind, and the rest will follow... right?

Originally by: ChipMo

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... I would contest it is far more important to focus on what we currently inhabit, and what we want our future selves to inhabit. These are the things we experiance, things that are undeniably real.

The origins of life are rather imaterial, due to the liniar nature of time. Frankly, we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know... sure its nice to indulge in more ponder and reasoning, but its not all you make it out to be.

Look to the future my man, and work to shape it.

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Unless you know the source of all things, you have no idea what kind of reality you're living in, you're completely oblivious to the important parts of your existence. This will lay as foundation for all decision you take in life.

You say " ... we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know..." You are here, yes, but you have no idea why. For all the things in the universe, planets, flowers, animals, galaxy clusters, colours, sounds, feelings, thougts, dreams etc etc, you have no idea why all these things exist. Dont you think you should try and find this out before anything else? All us humans have this question in us, we want to find out the reason for our existence, the reason for our lives, and indeed the reason for all life and all existence. Don't throw away this question and label it as unimportant, please.

Posted - 2011.08.15 10:54:00 - [81]

 

Originally by: Revan Neferis

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My lover use to joke with me that I can make order even inside absolute chaos which is kind of delicious paradox considering that I do consider even the concept of chaos as having absolute order in itself.
I strongly believe that we don't need to strive to break or create order, it automatically emerges from the dominant power assimilating the weaker and creating its own natural flow...

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I think where you drive me nuts (oh, yes you do) is in your use of the word "power", when what I believe you actually mean is rule, presumably conscious rule. You are taking examples of power-generating-order in the universe and equating them with rule-generating-order amongst humans. Yes, each operates according to laws, and, yes, if you apply power against individuals, then they will probably respond according to laws, but this is different from rule manifesting its own kind of law, human law that doesn't operate on the basis of blind, physical power, but on a kind of inherent sympathy, or a sense of rightness, of reason, of truth. I think this is what you mean, and yet there you go binding it all back to chaos (though I'm thankful for the "absolute order" part). How about just establishing order (human order) as a product of rule and true or conscious rule as the product of a higher order? Power (physically based) and rule (human based, of which physical power is one possible will-affecting tool) are not the same thing. To refer to all as simply examples of power is to have nothing to compare anything to. And yet I still find in your words the idea that power in nature is symbolic or reflective of something that is not that thing. So, cool -- let's call it not that thing instead of imagining that we're just more blind billiard balls automatically, mechanistically, creating order in anything that happens, which clearly (in human terms at least) is not the case.

As I suggested, there is such a thing as true or conscious rule or true (I'll use the term) power, but its salient feature is that it is the product, not necessarily the creator, of order. Its roots in order are what allow it to draw things to itself, to create or define order. Perhaps this is what you mean (I tend to think so), but, boy, it seems a hell of a way to run a corporation...

Posted - 2011.08.15 18:52:00 - [83]

 

Originally by: Revan Neferis

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Very interesting thoughts, it's the kind of subject I love to discuss, it involves more than philosophy per se and some occult arcane truths.

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Thank you, and yes it does -- that whole "As above, so below" aspect.

Quote:

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As much as I'm tempted to reply to it, I know this is not the right thread, so if you are interested to bring this topic to details we can certainly do elsewhere here on IGS.

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Ugh, I had to sweat out even that little bit in trying to verbalize what was more of a feeling. (That's why philosophy is so great, though; it forces one into little corners that one hopes are actually windows). I'll keep an eye open for an open door at the M.O., though. Who knows -- a few drinks and the threat (or treat) of acting the fool can sometimes work wonders.

Posted - 2011.08.16 07:37:00 - [85]

 

Originally by: Revan Neferis

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Let's talk sometime.

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I hope so. I'll try not to be such the hermit (and a skill-poor one at that).

Posted - 2011.09.05 16:43:00 - [87]

 

Originally by: Osip Volya

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We have three problems. They are the problems of reality, power and conscience.

They say there is divinity in odd numbers. If we solve these problems perhaps we shall become divine.

In seeking to transcend there will be many deaths and the revolution will be witness to them all.

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I don't know about transcending these problems, which I don't think are problems at root. The problem is getting them into their proper relation.

Power commands reality. Reality appeals to conscience. Conscience moderates power.

There are structures that can be built to help ensure this flow. We needn't all transcend, but an otherwise disinterested priesthood, whose purpose is to maintain such structures, seems a requirement. There needs to exist an Order (the transcendent) over the three-part circulation of Rule.

I find it heartening that you recognize the power of three, though your names for these elements (while being as expressive) are different from the ones I use.

P.S., Your words, in general, I found very evocative.