open All Channels
seplocked Intergalactic Summit
blankseplocked [Star Fraction] The Revolution is Dead
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic

Maximum Kiely
Caldari
Kiely and Son Salvage
Posted - 2011.07.27 18:51:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Ciar Meara
The needs of the many outweigh the desires of the few...


Hmm... always seems to me that the perceived "needs" of the few outweigh the desires of the many.

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2011.07.30 07:45:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Conlin on 30/07/2011 07:45:47
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I for one will not mourn the death of the Star Fraction.

Particularly since this announcement is probably little more than a particularly verbose whine about a few members leaving and we'll see them up to their old tricks before too long.


I for one relish the fact they wil be up to their old tricks again , if it makes old roddy verbosely whine Wink

* Not liking the thunderbirds avatars .

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.02 12:31:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Fridarey
Whereas in mine we have a million boats and million dreams. Strange how perceptions differ isn't it?


Not very strange if you ask me, but regrettable. I guess it comes down to if you think it's "every man for himself" or if you think we're all in this together. :s

Biife Stuhe
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.02 13:26:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Fridarey
Whereas in mine we have a million boats and million dreams. Strange how perceptions differ isn't it?


Originally by: Codo Yagari
Not very strange if you ask me, but regrettable. I guess it comes down to if you think it's "every man for himself" or if you think we're all in this together. :s


Is the thought that every man is for himself really a regrettable one? I find the idea of every man being against himself far more pitiable.

ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.02 17:31:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: ChipMo on 02/08/2011 17:33:11
Originally by: Codo Yagari

Not very strange if you ask me, but regrettable. I guess it comes down to if you think it's "every man for himself" or if you think we're all in this together. :s


*ChipMo laughs

The ship metaphor was a poor one. In truth we are just discussing our perspective of the same reality. You claim to be 'in it together' but your not, your in your role for your own interests however opaque or obscure those buried interests may be. Us anarchists? We're the same just a bit more honest about it, we work together when it suits our interests and go our own way when it does not.

Edit: You may find it worthwhile to consider at what scale self-intrest becomes servitude.

Maia Demoncast
Rust Corp
Seventh Vanguard
Posted - 2011.08.03 03:04:00 - [66]
 

Your post had me in the beginning there.

I am glad that someone keeps a bright beacon shining in the cold dark space. May the revolution die and be born again for many years to come.

Marenteius
Caldari
Red Coats
Posted - 2011.08.04 04:10:00 - [67]
 

i rarely post anymore (though i suppose that seems to be changing) and i havn't had any success against fellow capsuleers in combat at all.... but i still have to say, the Star Fraction helps keep things interesting... and hell, maybe if CONCORD were gone, i would have the impetus i need to lose enough ships to learn how to kill a few, neh? Just imagine it... all of Empire space, one big Free-for-all! It would be like watching a sun explode i imagine... pretty until the radiation and searing lightwave hit.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.05 00:20:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 05/08/2011 00:24:03
Anarchy...

Was it by force? Governments use force, and a coercion through fear of force, to achieve their means.

Hence to attempt in achieving anarchy and resorting to force in such endeavors, it is to become a government.

It's like declaring that one is free, and then going to a court of a nation ruled by tyrants to ask for freedom.


The revolution was doomed from the start. Declaring it's death as a means to prolonging it is an old trick.

You want real freedom, you start within, by withdrawing all consent first from everything that is not of your own doing and not of your interest.

From there you find your choices, and can live with them.






Biife Stuhe
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.06 02:31:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 05/08/2011 00:24:03
Governments use force, and a coercion through fear of force, to achieve their means.

Hence to attempt in achieving anarchy and resorting to force in such endeavors, it is to become a government.


Your logic is flawed.

Just because Governments use force doesn't mean all organizations that use force are therefore Governments. That's ridiculous.

To illustrate: "Minmatar use two legs to walk, therefore all creatures that use two legs to walk are Minmatar."

See how that doesn't work?

An Anarchist governs only Himself.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.08 11:41:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 08/08/2011 11:40:58

What when the very cells of your body start to proclaim anarchy? Will you let them have their way? (i.e. your doom)

Biife Stuhe
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.08 18:16:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 08/08/2011 11:40:58

What when the very cells of your body start to proclaim anarchy? Will you let them have their way? (i.e. your doom)


Wonderful. Yet more inept metaphors from Mr.Yagari. 'Capsuleers are like people in a boat.' 'Capsuleers are like cells in a body.'

Ridiculous.

The only Capsuleers who resemble unthinking, reactionary cells in a body are those who subscribe to the outdated theories and agendas of the old empires. Perhaps you count yourself among them, Mr.Yagari. I do not.

We don't have to be this way.

We can be independent.
We can fly free.
We can be creative demi-gods, burning our own individual wills across the stars with the searing flames of our intellect.

That so many are shuttered and blinded to the possibility of true freedom and individual will, including yourself Mr.Yagari, is evidence that the revolution needs to, even MUST continue.

This is why I will never give up on the revolution.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.09 10:36:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 10:38:34

You seek freedom, yet you do not seem to seek the answers to the question of the origin of our lives. In a sense your ambition is admirable, it is certainly better than being a drone that accepts all that is imposed upon him. But take my advise, you should seek the answers to the question of the mystery of this entire existence, instead of trying to make yourself demi-gods in it. You seek to be a demi-god, yet you have not the singlest clue how even your own body works. You really need to get down to the basics before you start to proclaim yourself universal masters. Try meditation and humbleness. Do that for a couple of years, then perhaps we can talk again.

Biife Stuhe
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.09 14:12:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 10:38:34

You seek freedom, yet you do not seem to seek the answers to the question of the origin of our lives. In a sense your ambition is admirable, it is certainly better than being a drone that accepts all that is imposed upon him. But take my advise, you should seek the answers to the question of the mystery of this entire existence, instead of trying to make yourself demi-gods in it. You seek to be a demi-god, yet you have not the singlest clue how even your own body works. You really need to get down to the basics before you start to proclaim yourself universal masters. Try meditation and humbleness. Do that for a couple of years, then perhaps we can talk again.


You presume far too much about my knowledge and desires, Mr.Yagari. I have no interest in being a 'universal master'. I seek only the freedom to do as I wish and the freedom for all to do so as well.

Aesis Tori
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:53:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Biife Stuhe


... I seek only the freedom to do as I wish and the freedom for all to do so as well.


As long as it doesn't interfere with the Star Fraction.

ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.09 17:06:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: ChipMo on 09/08/2011 17:07:23
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 10:38:34

You seek freedom, yet you do not seem to seek the answers to the question of the origin of our lives. In a sense your ambition is admirable, it is certainly better than being a drone that accepts all that is imposed upon him. But take my advise, you should seek the answers to the question of the mystery of this entire existence, instead of trying to make yourself demi-gods in it. You seek to be a demi-god, yet you have not the singlest clue how even your own body works. You really need to get down to the basics before you start to proclaim yourself universal masters. Try meditation and humbleness. Do that for a couple of years, then perhaps we can talk again.


It is important to consider where we come from I'll give you that. However I would contest it is far more important to focus on what we currently inhabit, and what we want our future selves to inhabit. These are the things we experiance, things that are undeniably real.

The origins of life are rather imaterial, due to the liniar nature of time. Frankly, we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know... sure its nice to indulge in more ponder and reasoning, but its not all you make it out to be.

Look to the future my man, and work to shape it.

Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:19:00 - [76]
 

I may agree with the purpose, but I recognize a moving speech when I hear one.

Even though I might not like the message, I have to admit it was well said.

Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Moira.
Posted - 2011.08.10 03:02:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
I've always wondered a little about your ideals and why exactly you consider yourself opposed to freespace Mebrithiel Ju'wien. To be frank you have never seemed to type to embrace tyranny and enclosurist ideology.

I thank you for your words of support in any case. It is heartening.



No, I'm not the type. I prefer to rule by setting an example and others doing what I tell them. I'm not especially demanding. I'd quite like people to get along, in relative peaceful chaos, so long as they know I'm in charge should anybody do something I dislike. Like shooting the poor little Covenant ships...

I'm a lot less, erm, structured than Revan and probably represent the element of chaos to her order. I mean, you should see my quarters! Absolute mess!

So yeah, Freespace and chaos sound great, so long as everyone knows I'm Queen B****

See?

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Propaganda Due
Posted - 2011.08.10 03:23:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Mebrithiel Ju'wien
I'm a lot less, erm, structured than Revan and probably represent the element of chaos to her order.


My lover use to joke with me that I can make order even inside absolute chaos which is kind of delicious paradox considering that I do consider even the concept of chaos as having absolute order in itself.
I strongly believe that we don't need to strive to break or create order, it automatically emerges from the dominant power assimilating the weaker and creating its own natural flow.
This Universal law applies towards everything known in this Universe without exceptions, from a galaxy being swalled by a giant black hole to a lover surrendering to another by simply meeting a striking gaze.
Very extremes sides of different examples but they are right to illustrate that degrees that one may experience the concept of natural order differs according with the situation and context, from subtle to very brutal but its there nonetheless.
The sometimes veiled, or sometimes very apparent hierarchy of the Universe is there, working on individuals and Cosmos alike without distinctions and without need of our validation to be proven a fact.

Power dictates freedom and creates order from itself. It's very simple really, all you need to do is to observe the Universe around you and learn from it.

Revan Neferis
Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign
Sani Sabik

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 11:02:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Biife Stuhe
You presume far too much about my knowledge and desires, Mr.Yagari. I have no interest in being a 'universal master'. I seek only the freedom to do as I wish and the freedom for all to do so as well.


That is indeed a good intent. However, there are things so much more important than freedom. Such as compassion, wisdom, selflessness, etc. If your mind and spirit is free, something only you yourself can work to achieve, then why go blaming others for your imprisonment. Free your mind, and the rest will follow... right?

Originally by: ChipMo
... I would contest it is far more important to focus on what we currently inhabit, and what we want our future selves to inhabit. These are the things we experiance, things that are undeniably real.

The origins of life are rather imaterial, due to the liniar nature of time. Frankly, we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know... sure its nice to indulge in more ponder and reasoning, but its not all you make it out to be.

Look to the future my man, and work to shape it.


Unless you know the source of all things, you have no idea what kind of reality you're living in, you're completely oblivious to the important parts of your existence. This will lay as foundation for all decision you take in life.

You say " ... we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know..." You are here, yes, but you have no idea why. For all the things in the universe, planets, flowers, animals, galaxy clusters, colours, sounds, feelings, thougts, dreams etc etc, you have no idea why all these things exist. Dont you think you should try and find this out before anything else? All us humans have this question in us, we want to find out the reason for our existence, the reason for our lives, and indeed the reason for all life and all existence. Don't throw away this question and label it as unimportant, please.

ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.11 19:06:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: ChipMo on 11/08/2011 19:06:59
Originally by: Codo Yagari

You say " ... we are here. That is as much as anyone needs to know..." You are here, yes, but you have no idea why. For all the things in the universe, planets, flowers, animals, galaxy clusters, colours, sounds, feelings, thougts, dreams etc etc, you have no idea why all these things exist. Dont you think you should try and find this out before anything else? All us humans have this question in us, we want to find out the reason for our existence, the reason for our lives, and indeed the reason for all life and all existence. Don't throw away this question and label it as unimportant, please.


Well lets see, suppose I do squander my life trying to find purpose from sources outside myself. I eventually discover this epic truth:

The reason for life is 42 and existence is a by product of extra-dimensional flatulence.

Meanwhile, the universe is owned by nationalists exploiting my fellow lifeforms and I have squandered what opportunities came my way to prevent that disgrace taking hold.

(note: the above is for dramatic effect to highlight the point, I am confident 42 is not the reason for life nor do I honestly believe the Universe is a result of extra-dimensional flatulence.)


End of the day I have found my own purpose for existing, I do not need some pre-ordaned clap trap to empower my actions. I have a mind, it can asses the world around it and form opinions, beliefs, we all have this capability and if we all had the will to act on this rather than seeking purpose from others or outside justifications for what we believe; the Galaxy as a whole would be far better off.

Trust in yourself, embrace your reality and act on it. Learn lessons from the past, sure.. but don't sacrifice today to do so.

Qansh
Gallente
Triskelion Ouroboros
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:54:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Revan Neferis
My lover use to joke with me that I can make order even inside absolute chaos which is kind of delicious paradox considering that I do consider even the concept of chaos as having absolute order in itself.
I strongly believe that we don't need to strive to break or create order, it automatically emerges from the dominant power assimilating the weaker and creating its own natural flow...

I think where you drive me nuts (oh, yes you do) is in your use of the word "power", when what I believe you actually mean is rule, presumably conscious rule. You are taking examples of power-generating-order in the universe and equating them with rule-generating-order amongst humans. Yes, each operates according to laws, and, yes, if you apply power against individuals, then they will probably respond according to laws, but this is different from rule manifesting its own kind of law, human law that doesn't operate on the basis of blind, physical power, but on a kind of inherent sympathy, or a sense of rightness, of reason, of truth. I think this is what you mean, and yet there you go binding it all back to chaos (though I'm thankful for the "absolute order" part). How about just establishing order (human order) as a product of rule and true or conscious rule as the product of a higher order? Power (physically based) and rule (human based, of which physical power is one possible will-affecting tool) are not the same thing. To refer to all as simply examples of power is to have nothing to compare anything to. And yet I still find in your words the idea that power in nature is symbolic or reflective of something that is not that thing. So, cool -- let's call it not that thing instead of imagining that we're just more blind billiard balls automatically, mechanistically, creating order in anything that happens, which clearly (in human terms at least) is not the case.

As I suggested, there is such a thing as true or conscious rule or true (I'll use the term) power, but its salient feature is that it is the product, not necessarily the creator, of order. Its roots in order are what allow it to draw things to itself, to create or define order. Perhaps this is what you mean (I tend to think so), but, boy, it seems a hell of a way to run a corporation... Wink

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Propaganda Due
Posted - 2011.08.15 17:32:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Qansh
Originally by: Revan Neferis
My lover use to joke with me that I can make order even inside absolute chaos which is kind of delicious paradox considering that I do consider even the concept of chaos as having absolute order in itself.
I strongly believe that we don't need to strive to break or create order, it automatically emerges from the dominant power assimilating the weaker and creating its own natural flow...

I think where you drive me nuts (oh, yes you do) is in your use of the word "power", when what I believe you actually mean is rule, presumably conscious rule. You are taking examples of power-generating-order in the universe and equating them with rule-generating-order amongst humans. Yes, each operates according to laws, and, yes, if you apply power against individuals, then they will probably respond according to laws, but this is different from rule manifesting its own kind of law, human law that doesn't operate on the basis of blind, physical power, but on a kind of inherent sympathy, or a sense of rightness, of reason, of truth. I think this is what you mean, and yet there you go binding it all back to chaos (though I'm thankful for the "absolute order" part). How about just establishing order (human order) as a product of rule and true or conscious rule as the product of a higher order? Power (physically based) and rule (human based, of which physical power is one possible will-affecting tool) are not the same thing. To refer to all as simply examples of power is to have nothing to compare anything to. And yet I still find in your words the idea that power in nature is symbolic or reflective of something that is not that thing. So, cool -- let's call it not that thing instead of imagining that we're just more blind billiard balls automatically, mechanistically, creating order in anything that happens, which clearly (in human terms at least) is not the case.

As I suggested, there is such a thing as true or conscious rule or true (I'll use the term) power, but its salient feature is that it is the product, not necessarily the creator, of order. Its roots in order are what allow it to draw things to itself, to create or define order. Perhaps this is what you mean (I tend to think so), but, boy, it seems a hell of a way to run a corporation... Wink


Very interesting thoughts, it's the kind of subject I love to discuss, it involves more than philosophy per se and some occult arcane truths.
As much as I'm tempted to reply to it, I know this is not the right thread, so if you are interested to bring this topic to details we can certainly do elsewhere here on IGS.


Revan Neferis
Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign
Sani Sabik

Qansh
Gallente
Triskelion Ouroboros
Posted - 2011.08.15 18:52:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Revan Neferis
Very interesting thoughts, it's the kind of subject I love to discuss, it involves more than philosophy per se and some occult arcane truths.

Thank you, and yes it does -- that whole "As above, so below" aspect.

Quote:
As much as I'm tempted to reply to it, I know this is not the right thread, so if you are interested to bring this topic to details we can certainly do elsewhere here on IGS.

Ugh, I had to sweat out even that little bit in trying to verbalize what was more of a feeling. (That's why philosophy is so great, though; it forces one into little corners that one hopes are actually windows). I'll keep an eye open for an open door at the M.O., though. Who knows -- a few drinks and the threat (or treat) of acting the fool can sometimes work wonders.

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Propaganda Due
Posted - 2011.08.16 04:57:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Qansh
Thank you, and yes it does -- that whole "As above, so below" aspect.


An ancient truth that always enchanted me in many ways "Quod est Inferius est sicut quod est Superius, et quod est Superius est sicut quod est Inferius, ad perpetranda Miracula Rei Unius."

Let's talk sometime.

Revan Neferis
Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign
Sani Sabik



Qansh
Gallente
Triskelion Ouroboros
Posted - 2011.08.16 07:37:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Revan Neferis
Let's talk sometime.

I hope so. I'll try not to be such the hermit (and a skill-poor one at that).

Osip Volya
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.09.05 10:30:00 - [86]
 

We have three problems. They are the problems of reality, power and conscience.

They say there is divinity in odd numbers. If we solve these problems perhaps we shall become divine.

In seeking to transcend there will be many deaths and the revolution will be witness to them all.



Jascira
Amarr
Animastra
Posted - 2011.09.05 16:43:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Osip Volya
We have three problems. They are the problems of reality, power and conscience.

They say there is divinity in odd numbers. If we solve these problems perhaps we shall become divine.

In seeking to transcend there will be many deaths and the revolution will be witness to them all.

I don't know about transcending these problems, which I don't think are problems at root. The problem is getting them into their proper relation.

Power commands reality. Reality appeals to conscience. Conscience moderates power.

There are structures that can be built to help ensure this flow. We needn't all transcend, but an otherwise disinterested priesthood, whose purpose is to maintain such structures, seems a requirement. There needs to exist an Order (the transcendent) over the three-part circulation of Rule.

I find it heartening that you recognize the power of three, though your names for these elements (while being as expressive) are different from the ones I use.

P.S., Your words, in general, I found very evocative.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.09.09 01:04:00 - [88]
 


I've been a soldier and a slave. I've seen my comrades fall in battle or die more slowly under the lash. I've held them in my arms at the final moment. These were men who saw life as it is, yet they died despairing. No glory, no brave last words, only their eyes, filled with confusion, questioning "Why?" I don't think they were wondering why they were dying, but why they had ever lived. When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? To surrender dreams - this may be madness; to seek treasure where there is only trash. Too much sanity may be madness! But maddest of all - to see life as it is and not as it should be.


Pages: 1 2 [3]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only