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Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:51:00 - [61]
 

The problem is supercapitals, not supercarriers.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:54:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Taleris Kline
Edited by: Taleris Kline on 12/07/2011 17:30:58
Out of curiosity, what is the process for balancing ships?

Will it be something similar to:
1) CCP Tallest proposes a change to CCP Soundwave with associated data of why they want to make that change.
2) Pending CCP Soundwave's approval, CCP Tallest makes a change on SiSi or Duality and asks players opinions on it.
3) Pending no game breaking response, CCP tallest submits the change for TQ?

Or will it be just released onto TQ?




It's a process with quite a few steps, including consulting the CSM. We're not going to release any balanced ships without them being reviewed thoroughly.


Just curious, to what degree does such a balance focus per ship / class / etc have dependancies on Art? Reason I ask, is because a lot of the minutes do make mention of how heavily burdened Art is, and thus it being a substantial bottleneck in prioritising and allocating resources. I could imagine rebalancing focus to (for example) focus primarily on those elements without such dependancies?

Max Kolonko
Caldari
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:58:00 - [63]
 

Well, after two months of waiting, I expected something... more?

Few interesting points (like local tweaks for example)

Few disappointment's (POS missery being put away for indefinite time due to ART being busy)

Few surprises (some CSM mentioned in His blog that there Was interesting discussion relating WH, but hwat I find is just nerfs discussions - like ABC nerf)

All in all nothing concrete, nothing spectacular...

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:07:00 - [64]
 

Quote:
CCP observed that doing the Dead Horse revamp would require 2 tech teams plus an art team for one or two releases. It was also pointed out that if the subscriber base grows (via Incarna and microtransactions), it would be possible to hire more people to work on EVE.


hows that working out?

Haro Elbem
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:11:00 - [65]
 

An easy way of adding to the variety and differentiating characters would be to add "flip" options to the hairstyles and "color" options for the clothes. A hairstyle parted and swept to the left, for instance, could with one click become a hairstyle parted and swept to the right. This would require minimal support from the art team since all the character models have lateral symmetry. Another one would be to allow the players to set primary/secondary colors or textures for their clothes just as they do their hair. Again, since the code is already there, it wouldn't require much in the way of dev time.

Vaako Horizon
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:24:00 - [66]
 

So again, thanks to the NDA, we see just talk nothing more... ( read: give us something real to bite down on instead of babbel )

I can agree some topics were somewhat interesting, like the drone-control part :D
As it is ingame drones are messed up, no point in better drone control if drones wont do as they are told.
But then again, EVE is dying and CCP appear to want it that way so there is no point in even expecting CCP to actually do anything.

Gripen
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:29:00 - [67]
 

CCP started with only few dozen people... Subscription amount rose...

Now its more than 600 people... but only
Originally by: Meeting minutes, Page 29
there are three main teams working on EVE Flying-in-Space content

and
Originally by: Meeting minutes, Page 30
It was also pointed out that if the subscriber base grows (via Incarna and microtransactions), it would be possible to hire more people to work on EVE.

Yeah, sure, we believe you. Laughing

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:30:00 - [68]
 

Again with the engine trials are definitely returning...

But when damnit!? YARRRR!!

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:30:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 12/07/2011 19:46:09

1) quotes from this thread

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It's actually the other way around. We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD for EVE.

man you really need a PR assistant >_<

Originally by: Joseph Vacher

No actual new content, then? Just changes to existing content, and an extension of the faintly pointless walking-in-stations functionality.
Is any of this supposed to actual excite people?

oh man... it's your fault if we have unfinished content >_<
and YES this exite me. and i don't see how you can't consider establishement as not being new shiny content...

Originally by: Ryunosuke Kusanagi
Marketing - MT/Subscriptions and EVE. NOW that I read the CSM Minutes, I can understand why CCP is moving towards a MT SUPPLEMENT and not a replacement.

agree.
these infos would have helped calm down a bit the rage during the riot.

2) questions from may minutes

okay so, now that i have finished reading, i have some questions :

from what i have understood, the winter expension will be :

  • sov revamp (no infos)

  • SCs bombers only bay (with one normal or not ?)

  • capital assembly outside forcefield (now ?)

  • big change on local (switch to somethong not chat like, not clear)

  • smuggling on space

  • incarna establishments

  • new graphical effects


that's right ?

* new PI CC on ground... built by us or dusties ? or both ?

* changes for local... we need MOAR infos !

* pos dead horse ; on the list, but art team can't do it until 2012 ?

and seriously saying that art is the biggest issue for most features when you are giving us clothes for aurum is horrible... and i don't care it's not the same teams. if you can hire teams for clothes, then you can hire teams for pos and such.

Quote:

CCP talked about removing ABC (Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite) mining sites from wormhole space at some point in the future. This may be from all wormholes, or possibly from lower class wormholes only.

WTF ?
you want to kill class 1 ?
you really need data guys... hey in case you don't know wh ABC don't respawn after downtime... quantities are pretty low...

Quote:
The CSM also observed that CCP ignores threads which are very popular in the Assembly Hall which CCP has no intention of implementing; because no CCP rep ever says ‘this cannot or will not be done’, and thus the controversy - and expectation of implementation - lingers.

oh man, if what we're talking about can't be done, simply make a blue post on the topic to say it... that's ridiculous >_<

and PLEASE more ships rebalancing !

3) interesting things that i saw on these minutes :

Quote:
In response to a question about the 30 second session timer, it was explained that this is a consequence of needing to allow enough time for various nodes in the cluster to settle on a consistent state (everyone agreeing on where you are and what ship you are in). When 30 seconds is not enough time, the infamous "black screen" is likely, so it is not anticipated that this can be reduced anytime soon.

Quote:
CCP wants to do video tutorials on the main screen in the CQ, and generally expand the main screen functionality

Quote:
The CSM was then shown statistics related to the anomaly nerf. CCP did not expect the numbers to drop as much as they did. There was quite a bit of discussion about how the nerf disproportionally hurt alliance grunts.

Quote:
It was noted that Tyrannis was, in CCP's eyes, a failed expansion in terms of expansion of the player base.
[...]
CCP Zulu believes that there is a lot of pent up demand for Incarna which will result in higher than normal post-expansion subscriber growth.

Quote:
The average EVE player is 31 years old, and it has been increasing as EVE itself gets older. It was also revealed that there are approximately 14,000 female account holders – or more precisely, 14,000 account holders who claim that they are women

Ryunosuke Kusanagi
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:32:00 - [70]
 

(Part 3)

GM's Policies, Petitions, LFL

I have to agree, Policies on GM's, and by extention ISD and STAR (for those who remember them), are hard to come by. As for Large Fleet fights, I personally tend to avoid them at all possible costs. As for reimbursement for such, if I knowingly go into a large fleet fight, I fully expect to lose my ship and pod, fact of life, deal with it. I use reimbursements for things that are obviously out of my control, ie, when the server takes an unexpected dump and I lose my ship to rats or something. Is there a way to restrict the number of players in a given node, like system/constellation lockdowns?


EVE Security Task Force (GO!): Good ideas overall, ESTF needs alot of work to get to where it needs to be (same with any other department), but its a good start.

Team Gridlock: WoL: Good changes. Good ideas.

ISD & Community: I agree with the CSM's on the reddit-stye voting system that what may be popular, may not be good for the game. As for Assembly hall/ideas sub forum, Maybe if an ISD rep for various teams responded to threads it'd be a good start to what is a "good idea" and an "unimplentable idea". ISC does seem kinda slow lately, and this is kinda... slow for EVE. More news that the community can get behind, and talk about, that kind of thing. :)

EVE User Interface: Contecxtual Menus are kinda ... .blocky, crowded, there's too much in them I think. Brackets are okay, but in LFF, they are useless, as there are simply too many of them.

Feature abandonment: Communications: I think it wouldnt be unreasonable for the devs to say "we cant finish this time due to x reason"
Ship balancing: I agree with this, having AT LEAST one dedicated dev member to ship rebalancing is a good idea, having them in contact with eyjorg and his ship utilization data and why certain ships (and certain setups with T3's) are more popular than others.

Nullsec Industrialization: Scaling NPC Difficulty, this can be done I think, whether it be in belts, sites, or missions. Exploration: I think it needs to be more... engaging, instead of "Find, kill, hack" type of deal. I believe that Null-sec needs to be more... self sufficient. The idea of importing in low end mins, and exporting high end products, while sound, doesnt help teh fact that all the low ends in null-sec are ignored. The idea of increase production value to lower sec is a good idea, and it fits in well with the risk vs reward idea.


Everything from here is more or less self explainatory or I agree with

Cmdr Stargazer
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:33:00 - [71]
 

Quote:
The CSM, with the exception of two members, is irked at the idea of high value ores being mined in low-end wormholes distorting the market. CCP Zulu mentioned that he considers this ‘******ed’ and that this will be looked into. In Class 5 or 6 wormholes the position is more nuanced, and the CSM acknowledged that these minerals could be used for local production, and that they are too far from the market to distort it.


Then the CSM members who are irked + Zulu are idiots. The risk/reward/PITA for WH mining is pretty high in lower class systems. Sure you can mine in a C1 WH but you have to have paranoia trained to V. Constantly dscan'ing for scan probes, no local, mining into a jetcan, jumping to a hauler, storing ore in a POS, making a stupid amount of trips to get ore out to refine at a decent rate(POS refining arrays are a joke).

"Daytrippers" can only jump a retreiver sized ship into the C1 WH, and a T1 Industrial to haul. The more mass you jump, the more unstable the WH gets. Translation: you are time limited on how much time/m3 you can actually get. Logisitcally and risk wise it hardly makes it worth it some times. The m3 of ore generated out of WH that actually makes it to market is likely very low(thank you CSM folks who asked for hard facts). Big alliance nullsec residents seem butthurt because somebody else has the ability to get at ABC besides them and their bots.

Also add to all of that the low spawn rate of ore sites(or any damn sites lately) and the fact that WH ore sites despawn unlike the ones in nullsec fortress systems. I hardly believe this is something that needs fixing/nerfing.

Will wait for CSM feedback after they get their requested hard data before resorting to 'Leave Britney Alone!' type screaming.


Victoria Wolfe
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:42:00 - [72]
 

Interesting read! I especially like the part about "An example of a tweak that is being considered is not paying out Insurance claims when a player gets Concorded".

Also when can we expect visible missile turrets? Very Happy

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:48:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: The Offerer on 12/07/2011 19:53:35
Originally by: Sonya Mag
"PLEX for Snitches"

"Another new program will encourage players to report botting programs, RMT, and exploits. The current name for this program is "PLEX for Snitches", and it has been running informally for a while; there are plans to make it formal. The goal of this program is to encourage responsible reporting of security issues."

Cool


Really? I haven't noticed that it was running... although, I guess I haven't contributed enough to be viable to participate in that informal program.

Ok, then... if you want to play like that, expect another thread from me on General Discussion. Those 99 bots barely scratched the surface.

Edit: but this time, the gloves will be off

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:59:00 - [74]
 

It is quite funny how most modern games are 90% art and 10% core in regard to development resources, still here we have EVE with 30 art developers and uhm 3 programmers? Shocked

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:03:00 - [75]
 

Quote:
The CSM then moved the conversation to CCPs inability to properly communicate with the player-base.
The example used was infamous “Anomaly Nerf” Devblog which made an acceptable change but used
the wrong arguments for it. The CSM explained that the perception that CCP doesn’t play the game 8
added unnecessary fuel to the fire. Arnar was acutely aware of this and was vehement in CCP’s
commitment to bettering communication to the players.


Dear CCP. Listen to the CSM. Your commitment to better communication was not evident in any way with the release of Incarna and the subsequent leaked blogs emails.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:14:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 12/07/2011 20:16:43
Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Sonya Mag
"PLEX for Snitches"

"Another new program will encourage players to report botting programs, RMT, and exploits. The current name for this program is "PLEX for Snitches", and it has been running informally for a while; there are plans to make it formal. The goal of this program is to encourage responsible reporting of security issues."

Cool


Really? I haven't noticed that it was running... although, I guess I haven't contributed enough to be viable to participate in that informal program.

Ok, then... if you want to play like that, expect another thread from me on General Discussion. Those 99 bots barely scratched the surface.

Edit: but this time, the gloves will be off

do you want to be a responsible member of the community or a "snitch"?

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:33:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 12/07/2011 20:36:45
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


.....

It's actually the other way around. We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD for EVE.


CCP Soundwave: This is actually where there seems to be a major disconnect between players and CCP. What we see is:

Playerview:

The money comes from Eve.
Some of that money is diverted from Eve to WoD.
Then you come in and say "We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD", but all you are doing is bringing money back to Eve that should never have been taken in the first place! Its eve's money, don't take it away then claim you are helping by bringing some of it back.

All the money made by eve should go to running and improving eve. If CCP thinks WoD is a money maker, then convince a bank and get a loan to finance it. Sure shared game components can share money, as long as its shared equally to the benefit to each game.

/playerview

Now is thats what is happening? Or is something else happening?

What if they are 'borrowing' resources from the actual sales of Pen-and-Paper World of Darkness products? Do any EVE players even consider this as what they might be doing?

As for CCP Soundwave: Is this, indeed, what you meant by that? Using White Wolf's rule-book and novel sales to bolster EVE development?

EDIT: In general, though, I do see quite a few players forgetting that White Wolf actually did publish things before CCP purchased them, and still does. That the sales of those products do, in fact, make money that likely is where most, if not all, of the World of Darkness MMO funding comes from. Now, I'm just a player and I may not know anything, but this is a possibility, isn't it?

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:36:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: The Offerer on 12/07/2011 20:38:14
Edited by: The Offerer on 12/07/2011 20:37:55
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 12/07/2011 20:16:43
Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Sonya Mag
"PLEX for Snitches"

"Another new program will encourage players to report botting programs, RMT, and exploits. The current name for this program is "PLEX for Snitches", and it has been running informally for a while; there are plans to make it formal. The goal of this program is to encourage responsible reporting of security issues."

Cool


Really? I haven't noticed that it was running... although, I guess I haven't contributed enough to be viable to participate in that informal program.

Ok, then... if you want to play like that, expect another thread from me on General Discussion. Those 99 bots barely scratched the surface.

Edit: but this time, the gloves will be off

do you want to be a responsible member of the community or a "snitch"?



Well, if you put it that way, no... I don't want to be a snitch. As a responsible member of the community, I've disclosed a bot network that is mainly still active after the initial period of inactivity. Was it a ban hammer or just adjusting to gameplay changes, I don't know. If it was a ban hammer, then why are they still in the game? I haven't reported individual players suspected to use bots, I've reported a network... All those characters won't magically switch to being honest players. That network was created with only one purpose.

And yeah... although my contact list started to flash green massively some time after the deployment of Incarna, Fearless leak and all that chaos, I had enough decency not to add one additional thread about hundreds of bots (yes... hundreds, as it will soon be presented to the public) in order to avoid adding petrol to the fire.

So, yeah... I'd prefer "responsible member" tag.

Although, all this does tell something about that "informal program" and its existence in reality.Neutral

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:44:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 12/07/2011 20:36:45
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


.....

It's actually the other way around. We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD for EVE.


CCP Soundwave: This is actually where there seems to be a major disconnect between players and CCP. What we see is:

Playerview:

The money comes from Eve.
Some of that money is diverted from Eve to WoD.
Then you come in and say "We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD", but all you are doing is bringing money back to Eve that should never have been taken in the first place! Its eve's money, don't take it away then claim you are helping by bringing some of it back.

All the money made by eve should go to running and improving eve. If CCP thinks WoD is a money maker, then convince a bank and get a loan to finance it. Sure shared game components can share money, as long as its shared equally to the benefit to each game.

/playerview

Now is thats what is happening? Or is something else happening?

What if they are 'borrowing' resources from the actual sales of Pen-and-Paper World of Darkness products? Do any EVE players even consider this as what they might be doing?

As for CCP Soundwave: Is this, indeed, what you meant by that? Using White Wolf's rule-book and novel sales to bolster EVE development?

EDIT: In general, though, I do see quite a few players forgetting that White Wolf actually did publish things before CCP purchased them, and still does. That the sales of those products do, in fact, make money that likely is where most, if not all, of the World of Darkness MMO funding comes from. Now, I'm just a player and I may not know anything, but this is a possibility, isn't it?


I agree that they could be funding eve with other sales, and eve is actually getting more money for its development than it is making. But I do not know if that is the case. CCP has not said.

Haulie Berry
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:52:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Haulie Berry on 12/07/2011 20:52:02
Quote:
Big alliance nullsec residents seem butthurt because somebody else has the ability to get at ABC besides them and their bots.


No joke. A quadruple amputee could count on their fingers the number of complaints I've seen about wormholes having ABCs.

This pretty clearly seems like an instance of the CSM looking after the interests of their respective alliances.

Callean Drevus
Caldari
Icosahedron Crafts and Shipping
Silent Infinity
Posted - 2011.07.12 21:08:00 - [81]
 

Quote:
The Art Dept was curious about what the CSM thinks about the priority of logos going on ships; the CSM was ambivalent, stating it as a not particularly high priority, especially compared to new ship models entirely. The Art Dept noted that it is much harder to put an alliance logo on a ship compared to a corp logo, as the corp logos use existing ingame assets.


Just my 2 cents. THIS would be awesome. At least for me it'd allow me to actually feel like I was part of a greater whole. It would have to be controllable though, not all my ships have to be marked with the logo of my corp or alliance. Still, simply being able to turn it on or off would be so awesome.

Could faction colours on ships not be extended to accommodate corporation/alliance colours as well (within limits, since people will undoubtedly use terrible combinations, and I do not want to hurt my eyes every time I look at a different ship)?

Motriek
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.07.12 21:09:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Motriek on 12/07/2011 21:35:55
Edited by: Motriek on 12/07/2011 21:28:10
The issue with resources centers around competing interests of players versus investors. The past decade of development represents a significant asset, which from an investors perspective, was sunk to develop an ongoing, recurring revenue model. Or another way, I gave you money, and I want it to see it grow at a certain rate, or I want dividends.

From the current player perspective, everything already built is free-to-play. A small component of the subscription goes to keeping servers up and the lights on, and the lions share should go towards building the next expansion.

Of course, neither viewpoint is realistic. Interest in any given Interactive entertainment spikes and wanes, unless it continues to be developed on an ongoing basis, without which the original investment rapidly demurs. Conversely, a car lease does not confer an annual update to the latest model.

Somewhere in between is CCP's dilemma. In order to succeed, both parties must be placated. Investors convinced that eve is an asset, and players convinced that eve is constantly evolving, so long as they keep subscribed. Which is not in and of itself evil, just a conflict. But CCP is presumably smart enough to now know just how little must be iterated so as to prevent unacceptable loss. And while I do not play WoW, blizzard seems to have better aligned these competing needs. Subscriptions confer access, and expansions confer improvements.

Most succinctly, subscriptions are a fee that CCP has a right to reinvest as they see fit. But all we want is eve to keep working, and to see more iteration on the game we love so much. Is there no more elegant way to incorporate my finances with CCP's project plan than to unsubscribe?

Some other post: Encumber plex/aurum with the features and ideas forum. Yes, I just said it.

Joseph Vacher
Posted - 2011.07.12 21:43:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Joseph Vacher
So let me get this straight - the winter expansion is:

  • changes to sovereignty and supercaps in 0.0

  • player-run shops in stations

  • some as-yet-unknown change to the local channel


No actual new content, then? Just changes to existing content, and an extension of the faintly pointless walking-in-stations functionality.

Is any of this supposed to actual excite people?

I know a lot of the previous updates have had preliminary excitement that has then died off, but does anyone else remember when they first heard of the new drone regions, or wormholes, or factional warfare, or planetary interaction, or exploration, or T3 ships? Remember when you used to think: blimey, I'm looking forward to getting hold of that?

Now we'll be able to sell each other boosters. Woohoo.


You seem to be channeling the idiocy that says "I want new shiny stuff!", please sit down and have another drink.

New content isn't better, it is nice, but at this point, actually for years content was introduced and left to rot not getting updated, not being balanced etc. I'd much rather have more 'iterations' on that old content than NEW **** for new ****'s sake.


That's an attitude I simply do not understand. I play computer games for fun. 'Shiny stuff', as you put it, is fun. If I don't have shiny stuff I get bored and look at something more shiny somewhere else. Human nature I guess.

I've been playing EVE since 2005 I think, and Wikipedia tells me Exodus was in effect at that time. Since then, new content has kept me playing. Right now, nothing new on the horizon...yeah I could log in and think 'oh good, they've rebalanced interdictors' or 'scanning is much more responsive to skills now', but I would much rather spend two months think 'oh my word, the Jovians are coming', excitedly anticipating a forthcoming expansion.

Thus, no new content = more chance I'll stop playing. Yes, I know that's great for you, can I have your stuff and all that, but presumably CCP would prefer to retain players to continue pulling in their income. My argument is it's easier to retain players with new content than it is with 'balancing'.

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.12 22:01:00 - [84]
 

RE: EVE Marketing

Therein lies the problem because when you start to use arguments like that 'a videogame is more..' or 'a hobby' as a locomotive to push things through, it makes the whole debate about micro-transactions so convoluted and far from the objective debate that it has to be in order to agree on something that will not infuriate a lot of people (aka your customers).

Honestly, I am not sure what Zinfandel tried to achieve by mentioning buying his sparkly WoW mount (going between $400-800) off eBay. Either he sits on a mountain of wealth that he can casually spend on whatever he pleases or he is completely mad.

Erinyes Nazgul
Posted - 2011.07.12 22:26:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
all you are doing is bringing money back to Eve that should never have been taken in the first place! Its eve's money,

Funniest and most pathetic quote I've seen yet. It's CCP's money.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.07.12 22:39:00 - [86]
 

It is quite amusing to see how the party that experiences a disconnection with the player base is mutually agreeing with the proxy they have placed in between themselves and the player base about that very feeling of disconnection.

There used to be devchats that where working very well, even for deaf players or those at work. I can remember _opinions_ of devs on this forum. Companies can change as much as games do, I suppose.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.12 22:44:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
InB4 Mittens


man, i'm late to this thread, playing too much alpha protocol

Cthulhu F'taghn
Sniggerdly
Posted - 2011.07.12 23:00:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Cthulhu F''taghn on 12/07/2011 22:59:52
My spaceship is standing at attention, ready for launch in anticipation of any kind of local nerf.

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.07.12 23:03:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh

What if they are 'borrowing' resources from the actual sales of Pen-and-Paper World of Darkness products? Do any EVE players even consider this as what they might be doing?

As for CCP Soundwave: Is this, indeed, what you meant by that? Using White Wolf's rule-book and novel sales to bolster EVE development?

EDIT: In general, though, I do see quite a few players forgetting that White Wolf actually did publish things before CCP purchased them, and still does. That the sales of those products do, in fact, make money that likely is where most, if not all, of the World of Darkness MMO funding comes from. Now, I'm just a player and I may not know anything, but this is a possibility, isn't it?


Unlikely. White Wolf was a stronger company prior to CCP acquiring them, although they were having some issues internally IIRC. (Gehenna was tough on them.) The thing is, White Wolf's book sales are not astonishing, and they're shelf real estate occupied (even in traditional pen and paper gaming stores) has shrunk over the past few years. Possibly because the NWoD didn't take off quite as well as they hoped, but also because I think their pricing was bit off. CCP's income from Eve pretty much dwarfs any contribution from White Wolf - book sales are an entirely different market dynamic from monthly subscription revenues. Plus, White Wolf's products are even more "niche" than Eve - even among traditional gamers, World of Darkness players are a small corner of the market. (Especially now with new competitors, like the Dresden Files and assorted similar "urban fantasy" genre games entering the market.) If CCP wanted to make more money from "traditional" gamers, I would recommend they feed some of Eve's intellectual property into a partnership or licensing agreement with the Warhammer 40k miniatures folks - there's money to be made in miniatures, especially space themed.
As an example... I own just about all of the LARP line of oWoD books. Total cost, new? Ballpark it at around $200USD. (New WoD is more expensive.)My ongoing bill for Eve? Since '07, it's close to $1000USD in subscription fees. The subscription internet spaceships are also not attacked at the bottom line by the resales market, piracy (of books), author royalties, and printing fees. (Marketing probably hits Eve harder.) Eve has a great deal more income than I see White Wolf being able to put out... it makes sense that CCP would be investing some of Eve's money into WoD MMO. I wouldn't mind if CCP would borrow art resources from White Wolf though... possibly outsource some of the non-coding aspects at White Wolf in Atlanta.
(Also, there are only 30 art people in Eve? Compared to how many coders? Can we get some more freakin' artists, if art is the bottleneck? Maybe specifically designated "Eve ONLY" art resources? Hell, just hire some of the good people that were in your contests... I'm sure they could quickly pick up your tools, or tell you why your tools suck and help make them better.)

Also, quick note for CCP: Never hold Masquerade and FanFest at the same place and time. It could get messy. Drama messy.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.12 23:57:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Stargazer
Quote:
The CSM, with the exception of two members, is irked at the idea of high value ores being mined in low-end wormholes distorting the market. CCP Zulu mentioned that he considers this ‘******ed’ and that this will be looked into. In Class 5 or 6 wormholes the position is more nuanced, and the CSM acknowledged that these minerals could be used for local production, and that they are too far from the market to distort it.


Then the CSM members who are irked + Zulu are idiots. The risk/reward/PITA for WH mining is pretty high in lower class systems. Sure you can mine in a C1 WH but you have to have paranoia trained to V. Constantly dscan'ing for scan probes, no local, mining into a jetcan, jumping to a hauler, storing ore in a POS, making a stupid amount of trips to get ore out to refine at a decent rate(POS refining arrays are a joke).

"Daytrippers" can only jump a retreiver sized ship into the C1 WH, and a T1 Industrial to haul. The more mass you jump, the more unstable the WH gets. Translation: you are time limited on how much time/m3 you can actually get. Logisitcally and risk wise it hardly makes it worth it some times. The m3 of ore generated out of WH that actually makes it to market is likely very low(thank you CSM folks who asked for hard facts). Big alliance nullsec residents seem butthurt because somebody else has the ability to get at ABC besides them and their bots.

Also add to all of that the low spawn rate of ore sites(or any damn sites lately) and the fact that WH ore sites despawn unlike the ones in nullsec fortress systems. I hardly believe this is something that needs fixing/nerfing.

Will wait for CSM feedback after they get their requested hard data before resorting to 'Leave Britney Alone!' type screaming.




Screw your class 1-4 ABC.


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