open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: CSM May summit - meeting minutes are out
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

Author Topic

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:37:00 - [1]
 

The summit held in May 2011 with CSM 6 and the CCP produced over 40 pages of meeting minutes covering a broad spectrum of topics related to EVE Online. The blog can be found by clicking this link.

Due to the number of topics discussed in this blog, both the CSM and CCP would appreciate if comments and queries are kept within this thread. This will make it easier for everyone to address your points in a timely manner.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:38:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 12/07/2011 16:39:41
Whew. I hope that people will find lots of interesting things to discuss in the minutes, and to answer the inevitable question, we are hard at work on minutes from the June meeting.

Also, IBC.

Draco Llasa
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:39:00 - [3]
 

this will be fun

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:39:00 - [4]
 

Trebor is a forum *****

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:40:00 - [5]
 

InB4 Mittens

CCP Veritas

Posted - 2011.07.12 16:44:00 - [6]
 

InB4 Meissa

Fake edit: Damnit!

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:44:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 12/07/2011 16:56:52
The NeX pricing strategy revealed:
Quote:
CCP Zinfandel revealed that he not only plays World of Warcraft (shock!) but that he paid a substantial amount of money on eBay for a Spectral Tiger mount (horror!).

Originally by: wowwiki
The odds of pulling a Spectral Tiger Loot card out of a Fires of Outland TCG pack are speculated to be around 1 in 7,260. The first Spectral Tiger card sold on eBay for $2,000. Cards currently sell in the range of $500 to $800 on eBay.

edit: just had a look on ebay, the trading cards (which contain a code for the in-game mount) seem to go within 400-700$ these days.

Iancasnim
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:45:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Iancasnim on 12/07/2011 16:47:11
On page 11 of 42.

Lookin good so far.

Really like the USL idea.

Also,
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel from CCP-CSM minutes

I get a great deal of pleasure every time I pull it out,


Best quote so far. Twisted Evil

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:50:00 - [9]
 

Page 5
Supercarriers: I believe nerfing the drone bays to be fighter and fighter-bomber only is not enough. You still have the issue of tanks on them being too strong and logofski still an available option.
Dreads: They need some kind of change for the better IMO.

Page 7
Changing local for Incarna sounds good. A new intelligence gathering tool and no free warning is welcomed by me.

Unified Service Layer (USL) enabling players buying and possibly putting up selling orders from market without logging into game sounds awesome.

Page 32
Local changes: CSM stated there needs to be a method to determine if a hostile is in system. I believe probes and scanners are for this purpose. CSM saying they still want a free warning system in 0.0 is disappointing to me if I read that right. There are still choke points and intel chat channels for this too. I hub upgrades I can agree with, but not VS cloakers.

Page 35
Is the Eve art team still working on turrets or has it moved onto missile launchers?

Page 41
Please buff Blackop Battleships. Cov Op cloak, and tank or gank are hopefully receiving considerations. I know some have brought up a fuel bay buff as well as jump range too. Some need fitting help as well. The Sin comes to mind.


Overall I would say I am pleased with the effort put into this meeting. I hope the timeframe on releasing the information is improved on by all parties. If I read anything wrong please clarify. I am especially interested in what is happening to local and CSM suggestions on it. Thank you goes out to all the CSM and CCP who participated in this. Let us try to keep this constructive.

T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:50:00 - [10]
 

this space for rent.


jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:59:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 12/07/2011 17:09:01
Originally by: csm minutes

“The main theme of this Winter expansion, at least with regards to FiS, would be iterations on 0.0 space. Specifically: null-sec sovereignty related features, supercap proliferation and the rule of super-capitals, and various other “Team BFF” tweaks.”

Ok it appears “Team bff” was really just the renaming of the FIS “features team.” I explain more in the next post.
Originally by: csm minutes

“While it may seem like not much was accomplished during this meeting, [the FIS meeting] the intangible benefits were massive for both the CSM and CCP. CCP had a better understanding of what the CSM valued, and the CSM got a look behind the curtain, so to speak, on how CCP operates, which changes would be viable, and where the potential log-jams would be.”


CSM thank you for the massive “intangible benefits” to FIS in eve.

Originally by: csm minutes

Upcoming expansions:…

“Discussion then shifted to Torfi’s vision of developing Eve. In previous expansions new content was the focus; in the upcoming expansions iteration on current features would have the lions-share of the attention. While iteration would be the primary goal, there would still be room for adding new content. Ideally this new content would be added as an iteration of a current feature.”


Huh? Incarna and its transactions was basically all new content. I suppose what they mean to say here is incarnatransactions will come out and CCP will then spend the lion-share of its time iterating on that.
Originally by: csm minutes

“New members of the CSM opened by expressing the opinion that, after seeing first-hand some of the resource constraints CCP operates under, it would be unfair to simply shake fists and complain about feature abandonment; regarding issues like the infamous "18 months" incident (Zulu: "I ****ed a lot of people off with that"), a lot of the concern was created by bad messaging, something CSM could perhaps help with.”


CCP didn’t commit resources to eve gameplay. So csm should help ccp buffalo the players into thinking they didn’t abandon the game.

Originally by: csm minutes

“The CSM repeated the concern, raised at previous summits, that too many resources were devoted to "new and shiny". The question of whether, after the initial development of Incarna and Establishments, some of those resources could be redirected towards fixing existing features was raised.
CCP replied that a significant portion of the resources used to develop Incarna have been borrowed from other projects, or are being used to develop infrastructure that has broader application than just Incarna.”




Ok so those devs are going back to World of Darkness and dust instead of staying with anything eve related. I guess that makes sense. Why continue to pretend they are working on eve?


Mallikanth
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:00:00 - [12]
 

Good topics, good notes and allot of bases covered there - my thanks to everyone who took part.
I'm sue allot of us appreciate the work put in by the CSM. I know I do, especially since CSM5 onwards.

Keep it up guys (both CCP & CSM).ugh






Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:01:00 - [13]
 

The idea of allowing market interaction from out of game is controversial to say the least and I hope the good Dr. E realizes that. A bit of me thinks the idea of legitimizing market bots is kinda good, but knowing CCP it'll be hugely restrictive and botters will keep botting to get an advantage over the legit bots.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: csm minutes

“Currently, there are three main teams working on EVE Flying-in-Space content (as opposed to Incarna, infrastructure development [Carbon], performance [Gridlock], and so on). These are Team BFF (Little Things), Team TriLambda (Art), and Team Commie Pinkos (Content, such as missions).”


Ok so from Zulus dev blog of july 2010 we had 3 team for flying in space

“In-space features

(3 teams, approximately 22 developers)

Currently, the plan is to have three teams working on EVE (the space parts): a feature team, the mission design team and an art/effects team. The feature team has chosen to work on a PVE related iteration. In short, they‘ll be expanding and iterating on PVE in EVE, bringing together players for immersive and engaging group content. The art/effects team will be finishing up on left-over work all the way back from Apocrypha and on some level even Trinity, where we have not fully taken advantage of new features of Trinity 2.0. This will mean prettier effects that perform better, especially in fleet fights.”

So the “features team” from Zulus blog was renamed “team bff” but they didn’t add any new devs to flying in space at all I take it.

It was just a name change to fool the players into thinking ccp cared about their concerns.

Without any additional devs being assigned to in space features any talk of possible improvements will remain empty words.


Pure Tabasco
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:05:00 - [15]
 

Ok I am just gonna say it
The minutes gives me chill in my spine because whatever it is that NEEDS to be done its left in just discussions, and when new things that alter the game comes to discussion, its always in 1rst base of development (then its DONE before more discussing on it its made).
I know plenty of stuff its shaded for NDA stuff but I feel that its more presenting new stuff that landing somewhere in the important stuff.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:13:00 - [16]
 

Just further affirmation of the utter disconnect that exist. Keep sailing for that iceberg guys, hopefully the captain stays the course and goes down with his failboat.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:14:00 - [17]
 

Minutes!

Beat General
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:18:00 - [18]
 

It's obvious CCP zimmerberg (or whatever his name is) knows nothing about the eve community when he mentioned he plays WOW and some non-sense about a pony mount.

He dug his own grave.

CCP everybody hates you enough as it is. Stop giving them more reasons unless you want to lose even more money.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:20:00 - [19]
 

Quote:

The CSM repeated the concern, raised at previous summits, that too many resources were devoted to
"new and shiny". The question of whether, after the initial development of Incarna and Establishments,
some of those resources could be redirected towards fixing existing features was raised.

CCP replied that a significant portion of the resources used to develop Incarna have been borrowed
from other projects, or are being used to develop infrastructure that has broader application than just
Incarna.



CSM pointed out that iterating on an existing feature and at the same time adding some new functionality and art will provide the new "shiny" that Marketing & Sales can use to promote an expansion.

CCP observed that doing the Dead Horse revamp would require 2 tech teams plus an art team for one or two releases. It was also pointed out that if the subscriber base grows (via Incarna and microtransactions), it would be possible to hire more people to work on EVE.


Again there is money for WOD/DUST but not for EVE, thanks again CCP.

Oh and I thought you guys said that MT from NEX was to pay for the development of NEX items cause fashion designers that make stuff I could draw up when I was 9 years old cost so much.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Beat General
It's obvious CCP zimmerberg (or whatever his name is) knows nothing about the eve community when he mentioned he plays WOW and some non-sense about a pony mount.

He dug his own grave.

CCP everybody hates you enough as it is. Stop giving them more reasons unless you want to lose even more money.

how dare you call an awesome 400$ tiger mount a "pony mount"

the sparkling "pony" is just 25$ and wouldn't nearly have had the same effect on Zynfandel's personality and self-expression as the tiger mount.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:22:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Quote:

The CSM repeated the concern, raised at previous summits, that too many resources were devoted to
"new and shiny". The question of whether, after the initial development of Incarna and Establishments,
some of those resources could be redirected towards fixing existing features was raised.

CCP replied that a significant portion of the resources used to develop Incarna have been borrowed
from other projects, or are being used to develop infrastructure that has broader application than just
Incarna.



CSM pointed out that iterating on an existing feature and at the same time adding some new functionality and art will provide the new "shiny" that Marketing & Sales can use to promote an expansion.

CCP observed that doing the Dead Horse revamp would require 2 tech teams plus an art team for one or two releases. It was also pointed out that if the subscriber base grows (via Incarna and microtransactions), it would be possible to hire more people to work on EVE.


Again there is money for WOD/DUST but not for EVE, thanks again CCP.

Oh and I thought you guys said that MT from NEX was to pay for the development of NEX items cause fashion designers that make stuff I could draw up when I was 9 years old cost so much.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913



It's actually the other way around. We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD for EVE.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:23:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It's actually the other way around. We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD for EVE.

Which were paid for by EVE in the first place?

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:24:00 - [23]
 

Very, very stoked that these are finally published! Thanks to CCP and the CSM for the hard work at the summit, and the equally hard work getting these together and publishing them for us. I am currently reading through it and will provide more feedback when I finish. Please, please make publishing a PDF of the minutes a regular part of the CSM experiment.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:25:00 - [24]
 

I, for one, am glad they are nerfing SCs mere months after I get mine :)

lawl

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:27:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Razin on 12/07/2011 17:30:42
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Did you read your own excerpt? Because it directly contradicts your thread title.

It doesn't, though it is somewhat up to interpretation.

The minutes state that "Local would not simply just “turn off” and turn into delayed mode", which, when taken within the context of Arnar's announcement, seems to mean that Local will not change without some replacement intel/whatever tools that are yet to be explained.

Perhaps some CCP Dev or CSM member could clarify.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:28:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Kerrisone
Quote:

The CSM repeated the concern, raised at previous summits, that too many resources were devoted to
"new and shiny". The question of whether, after the initial development of Incarna and Establishments,
some of those resources could be redirected towards fixing existing features was raised.

CCP replied that a significant portion of the resources used to develop Incarna have been borrowed
from other projects, or are being used to develop infrastructure that has broader application than just
Incarna.



CSM pointed out that iterating on an existing feature and at the same time adding some new functionality and art will provide the new "shiny" that Marketing & Sales can use to promote an expansion.

CCP observed that doing the Dead Horse revamp would require 2 tech teams plus an art team for one or two releases. It was also pointed out that if the subscriber base grows (via Incarna and microtransactions), it would be possible to hire more people to work on EVE.


Again there is money for WOD/DUST but not for EVE, thanks again CCP.

Oh and I thought you guys said that MT from NEX was to pay for the development of NEX items cause fashion designers that make stuff I could draw up when I was 9 years old cost so much.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913



It's actually the other way around. We've been heavily borrowing resources from projects like WoD for EVE.


Which are funded by EVE's income, and put into EVE to offset the costs of development while having us test that technology for you. It also satisfies your idea of 'space sim' and the promise of Ambulation/WIS/Incarna but it didn't need to be tied to WOD development. It could have been much simpler for EVE but that wouldn't work for a 2013 or 2014 MMO vampire game.

End result is EVE is suffering from having development being done on things not typically thought of as EVE while many features and content continue to be left rotting in place. Incarna is a new feature that requires 2+ expansions at minimum with more iterations to flesh out to what little has been said about it, EVEN more if all that player's dreamed of OR even a fraction of it was attempted.

YES EVE benefits from WOD as a product but WOD and DUST benefit so much more from EVE and EVE suffers more than it benefits at least to me and maybe some of your other customers who have been waiting years for their gameplay to get addressed.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:28:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Beat General

CCP everybody hates you enough as it is. Stop giving them more reasons unless you want to lose even more money.


I wish that attempting to speak for the rest of us was a ban-able offense. Or that in the least it would earn you a dunce cap for a week in your forum portrait.

Jaggins
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:28:00 - [28]
 

Need TL/DR for neckbeards version!

LordOfDespair
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:29:00 - [29]
 

CCP thinks

microtransactions = more players / more $$

I'm surprised to why they don't realize that when they make eve into some kind crappy chinese P2W MMO failfest... this will most likely result in them losing their loyal fanbase.

They are biting more than they can chew, trying to develop WOD (which is total gay, anyways), Dust 514, AND eve at the same time. Then they want to screw eve players by failifying the game and trying to milk money quickly.

Improve gameplay in eve, then maybe more people would play and give subs.

No no, that is too radical. We need to add some virtual janaponose boutiqe items and sell them for 70$ each. Yeah that would make this game 20x better and attract customers.

Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:30:00 - [30]
 

It's a shame that CCP didn't have more foresight and had just created a number of clothing art assets that could be mixed and matched together that would allow a player to then coordinate and colour them for unique designs. Then they could of sold them via establishments to other players. The NEX store could have been involved with a player buying blueprints for example of the different art assets with more unique designs being more expensive.
This could have spawned a whole new business group (designer/retailer) in EvE to add to industrialists, miners, etc.

I could of seen EvE gaining a whole new playerbase demographic with features like this. Incarna could be virtually a game within a game with the numerous possibilites. Incarna has the potential to bring in players that otherwise would not have even thought previously about playing EvE Online. Also there's no doubt that a percentage of the people joining for the station gameplay would also become more involved in the spaceship portion to the benefit of all EvE players.

Damn!!! Quick slap me now, I'm starting to sound like Torfi ... Shocked


It also bemuses me that CCP is trying to bring in new players (like me) and retain them with Incarna, yet prices in the NEX store for example which is a feature of it are actually detrimental to that goal. As a new player I look at the NEX store items now as a wasted feature and in fact will push me to quit if MT's start to move to other parts of the game.


No FW love in the notes, or did I miss it? Are the 4 factions in EvE supposed to be at war or are they all sitting around holding hands singing Kumbaya?


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only