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Dirk Decibel
Posted - 2011.07.17 13:04:00 - [151]
 

Anywhere we can get the recordings of this chat?

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.17 13:51:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: dexington on 17/07/2011 13:52:26
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
Anywhere we can get the recordings of this chat?


...

Originally by: Digital Messiah


http://www.mediafire.com/?a5r13so7dm79o7j

135 mb as .mp3 was 558 as .wav
I didn't get the very beginning, I did however get almost the entire thing.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.17 14:09:00 - [153]
 

just listening to the recording.

what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items?
ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings?
Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?

you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.

Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:09:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Smoking Blunts
just listening to the recording.

what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items?
ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings?
Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?

you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.


Convenience is a pandora's box though.

If you offer say "ammo delivery" for a small fee then that gets around the player economy *effort*, thats a no no.

Any service that could be offered in-game being conjured out of *thin air* that a player would have had to have provided himself, beforehand, breaks immersion.

That only leaves things that are outside the scope of player interaction, like "extra ship fittings". But the problem with things like that is avoiding the perception that you are simply out to grab as much cash out of the individual as possible for seemingly tiny improvements that should already be a part of your subscription.

Perceiving people as greedy is almost as poisonous as mechanics that break immersion.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:18:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Smoking Blunts
just listening to the recording.

what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items?
ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings?
Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?

you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.


Could be but more likely they will start with things that aren't obvious market workarounds want extra wallet divisions for your character, not corp, pay them, how about for the corp, pay them, how about not having to fly out to get a skill book pay them over and above the NPC sell price and it will spawn, want extra jump clones pay them, how about reducing the time to use a jumpclone by 4-6hrs pay them, how about increasing the standing/security you gain by a factor of 2 for 24-48hrs pay them.

The point is they will try stuff they think will gain traction with some people and be 'meh' to others always looking towards pushing the envelope to full pay for advantage aka p2w. They might not introduce p2w for a while but when Dust514 enters it will have pay for advantage and that is the beginning of the conversion to bring it into EVE if it isn't already here by then. Just as PLEX turned out to be the seed that brought 'mt' into EVE for all the good it was supposed to do it will always be the progenitor of MT in EVE.

Dust514 will be the point we mark when EVE had some claim of not being p2w and when it no longer did for all those that understand what and how plex works of course not the 'plex is pay to win'. The people who think like that are okay or say 'meh' to more mt and pay for advantage because they are not cognisant of the difference just as CCP hopes with their ideas that skirt the fine edge to appear to not be gamebreaking or have loose ties to the market to mask the p2w aspects.

Spacedust
Posted - 2011.07.17 20:25:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
just listening to the recording.

what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items?
ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings?
Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?

you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.


Could be but more likely they will start with things that aren't obvious market workarounds want extra wallet divisions for your character, not corp, pay them, how about for the corp, pay them, how about not having to fly out to get a skill book pay them over and above the NPC sell price and it will spawn, want extra jump clones pay them, how about reducing the time to use a jumpclone by 4-6hrs pay them, how about increasing the standing/security you gain by a factor of 2 for 24-48hrs pay them.

The point is they will try stuff they think will gain traction with some people and be 'meh' to others always looking towards pushing the envelope to full pay for advantage aka p2w. They might not introduce p2w for a while but when Dust514 enters it will have pay for advantage and that is the beginning of the conversion to bring it into EVE if it isn't already here by then. Just as PLEX turned out to be the seed that brought 'mt' into EVE for all the good it was supposed to do it will always be the progenitor of MT in EVE.

Dust514 will be the point we mark when EVE had some claim of not being p2w and when it no longer did for all those that understand what and how plex works of course not the 'plex is pay to win'. The people who think like that are okay or say 'meh' to more mt and pay for advantage because they are not cognisant of the difference just as CCP hopes with their ideas that skirt the fine edge to appear to not be gamebreaking or have loose ties to the market to mask the p2w aspects.


EA did that with battlefield heroes (theres a video blog with statistic and everything before and after changes.

It work almost to good to be true for them, even the most rabbit haters where later spending way more cash then the avarage user. cba to find link thou sry, it was posted in eve general some weeks ago. But im 95% sure we will see this(read quote) as its logical from the numbers point of view to the company. Myself ill play aslong as i feel the space game weights up for the doll game. And im actually up 1 account since incarna :p.

But i dont have any illusion about where ccp is heading. Its the same way everyone else in the market is heading _everyone_.Cool

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.17 21:27:00 - [157]
 

so much for the cold hard eve i feel in love with. looks like the road to hello kitty is on its way.

oh well, all good things must come to an end i guess.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:14:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~

mvrck22
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:36:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


With all the advocacy of social engineering and creating personal relations and all that angling, do you still think you have personal relevance in any of all this in the aftermath of repeatedly ending up in pant's down moments thanks to your CCP brosefs?


Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.18 00:26:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Spacedust
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
just listening to the recording.

what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items?
ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings?
Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?

you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.


Could be but more likely they will start with things that aren't obvious market workarounds want extra wallet divisions for your character, not corp, pay them, how about for the corp, pay them, how about not having to fly out to get a skill book pay them over and above the NPC sell price and it will spawn, want extra jump clones pay them, how about reducing the time to use a jumpclone by 4-6hrs pay them, how about increasing the standing/security you gain by a factor of 2 for 24-48hrs pay them.

The point is they will try stuff they think will gain traction with some people and be 'meh' to others always looking towards pushing the envelope to full pay for advantage aka p2w. They might not introduce p2w for a while but when Dust514 enters it will have pay for advantage and that is the beginning of the conversion to bring it into EVE if it isn't already here by then. Just as PLEX turned out to be the seed that brought 'mt' into EVE for all the good it was supposed to do it will always be the progenitor of MT in EVE.

Dust514 will be the point we mark when EVE had some claim of not being p2w and when it no longer did for all those that understand what and how plex works of course not the 'plex is pay to win'. The people who think like that are okay or say 'meh' to more mt and pay for advantage because they are not cognisant of the difference just as CCP hopes with their ideas that skirt the fine edge to appear to not be gamebreaking or have loose ties to the market to mask the p2w aspects.


EA did that with battlefield heroes (theres a video blog with statistic and everything before and after changes.

It work almost to good to be true for them, even the most rabbit haters where later spending way more cash then the avarage user. cba to find link thou sry, it was posted in eve general some weeks ago. But im 95% sure we will see this(read quote) as its logical from the numbers point of view to the company. Myself ill play aslong as i feel the space game weights up for the doll game. And im actually up 1 account since incarna :p.

But i dont have any illusion about where ccp is heading. Its the same way everyone else in the market is heading _everyone_.Cool


I saw that and CCP wants MT period, when players in a majority said no to MT it didn't matter CCP wanted to put them in and they did.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1395464&page=1

When it comes time to build on them more with 'convenience' or 'non gamebreaking' advantages they will do it. The only thing they might consider is what is too far, EA seemed to do their research with surveys CCP seems to have looked to outside advisors or data from other games/companies than asking players or they did and I never got asked to take one. If they do it smart they'll find out what people want and what they don't want when it comes to MT, good and bad but they aren't going away. Eve as we knew it is over and all that is left is to play until it isn't good enough for you or move on to something else if you don't want to play something with an expiration date on it.

Elisa Vilerum
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:37:00 - [161]
 

Who the hell vote for this failures anyway,CSM is god damn joke.

JitaBUGz TheGreat
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:38:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


NO one gives one **** about your opinion. So u read up on worm holes yet, so you dont look like a total idiot next time u talk about them?

Garekell
Posted - 2011.07.18 03:45:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


Predictable... I raise a concern about your behavior as so-called lead of the CSM, and you lash out like a child. Skip any further political office... not for you I am afraid. Especially since you consider your constituents only those people belonging to the 'mittens club'. The obvious 0.0 slant of the last two (and only) fireside chats make that obvious despite what other CSM members have tried to say. Your legacy I am afraid is ruining any progress the CSM has made over many years in legitimizing itself.

Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.07.18 06:08:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Garekell
Your legacy I am afraid is ruining any progress the CSM has made over many years in legitimizing itself.

YOUR ONLY NOW REALIZING HIS AGENDA?

EVER SINCE CSM 5 WENT FOR THE JUMP BRIDGE NERF, THE MITTANI HAS BEEN HELL BENT TO DISMANTLE ANY CREDIBILITY THE CSM HAS WITH THE PUBLIC. ANY POSSIBLE IDEA OR CHANGE THAT WOULD HURT HIS GOONIES AND HOW THEY OPERATE HE IS AGAINST EVEN IF IT'S WHAT IS BEST FOR THE GAME AS A WHOLE.

HE RUNS AROUND TELLING PEOPLE TO COMMITED SUICIDE AND DIE IN REAL LIFE. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK HE GIVES A **** ABOUT EVE, MUCH LESS THE CSM?


J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:59:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/07/2011 08:59:34
Originally by: The Mittani

your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


Really? Typical politician...greasing the hands that feed. I understood that the CSM's job was to represent the ENTIRE player base to CCP? Hmmm...let me see...I found this in the Evelopedia:

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP.

Notice that it doesn't say "greatest good for the Chairman's constituency".

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.07.18 10:05:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: The Mittani

your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~


Then you are in the wrong place mate.

ADMIRALPLANET DOMINATOR
Posted - 2011.07.18 10:34:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


That's rich, coming from you.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:02:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


This pretty much sums up why most players can't be arsed to care about the CSM, and why many hope the CSM loose what little power they have. In the end it would be better if the devs and designers made the decisions, and not a group of players who are willing break the parts of the game they don't play to improve on the parts they do play.

Even with the recent bad decisions made by CCP, i feel they are doing a better job, then the CSM, trying to improve the game for all players.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:12:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: The Mittani
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


This pretty much sums up why most players can't be arsed to care about the CSM, and why many hope the CSM loose what little power they have. In the end it would be better if the devs and designers made the decisions, and not a group of players who are willing break the parts of the game they don't play to improve on the parts they do play.

Even with the recent bad decisions made by CCP, i feel they are doing a better job, then the CSM, trying to improve the game for all players.


I'd say that his sentiment is what will fuel such feelings for CSM6 and beyond, the work done by CSM5 tossed aside in part due to his antics and the CSM as a whole 'going' along with the join statement BS.

Also you are aware that the CSM doesn't make the decisions they have a voice that CCP will listen to but ultimately the decisions are CCP's not the CSM's. The CSM will try to push the issues they unite behind and that is it CCP listens and ignores them or puts some effort into working on their ideas in whatever capacity they feel is correct.

I disagree they are doing a good job in this instance both CCP and CSM are failing hard, CCP's just been doing it much longer cause CSM gets recycled every term and this one is pretty much a load with few less than stellar exceptions.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:18:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Also you are aware that the CSM doesn't make the decisions they have a voice that CCP will listen to but ultimately the decisions are CCP's not the CSM's. The CSM will try to push the issues they unite behind and that is it CCP listens and ignores them or puts some effort into working on their ideas in whatever capacity they feel is correct.


yes, even if it wasn't what i said, i meant the decision making process. Anyways if they CSM had zero influence on the direction CCP is developing eve, it would be pointless to have the CSM.

Alexandra Alt
Posted - 2011.07.18 13:06:00 - [171]
 

I have this question lingering around for quite sometime and this seems to be the right place to ask it given the context.

From EVE wikipedia the scope of the CSM:

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP."

Now, from what I understand in this statement, the CSM is a group of people which express the player base interests to CCP, elaborating a little bit more on the perception I get, the CSM in a very frontal and crude form, are the link between CCP and the player base interesets in order to achieve a common ground of agreement, but unfortunately, what I've been reading through all this forum/tweets/mumble recording, is nothing more than a group of people with their own personal interests (CSM) mostly disregarding the player base interests (or the majority of them, since I see very little feedback request from the general player base in order to understand the player base opinions/interests) and imposing their personal views/interests and/or agenda.

Now I don't have any issues with voting people for their interests and opinions, as long as it is stated and explicity declared like a real political party with an agenda very well defined on prior to voting for the player base to choose what 'agenda' or 'game political side' they're voting for, but I was sold (or have been) that the CSM is the player base spokesman, and not a party with it's own political agenda.

I have no issue whatsoever with the CSM having their own interests and views of the game, I do have issues though if they are our interests 'spokesman' and they impose their own interests disregarding the player base, I'm also fully aware that there will always be people against something, granted, but I haven't seen many statements from the CSM with the tone of 'I might not agree with it, but the majority of the player base whishes this that I have to express this as the player base interest' instead, only the 'I don't care about this so CCP can decide whatever' or the imposition of CSM interests on to CCP with little or very limited player base reasearch about the issue.

Anyway, the real question is, what is CSM supposed to be after all ?

Best regards,

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.18 13:17:00 - [172]
 

Listened to the Fireside Chat recording and enjoyed it. It was nice to hear a variety of voices from the CSM this time, rather than just the one Pretentious Douchebag hogging the stage.

I was at first content with our new CSM chairman, but more and more I just cringe at the fact that he's the public face of this important group. Sir, I pray that you find yourself with a hellish job that requires you to work 80 hours a week and leaves no time for Eve, forcing you to resign and hand the reigns over to Trebor, who is far better suited for the role. Twisted Evil

I must say though, Mittens has improved considerably from the last Fireside Chat...he mostly dropped the insulting and childish word r-tarded from his vocabulary for this call. Kudos.

Dougal Regyri
Posted - 2011.07.18 15:54:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~



what is quite funny if someone in a REAL political movement made a stupid comment like this his resignation would be expected. It seems to me that your ego has far far exceeded your actual position.

Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.18 16:32:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~


So are you saying that you don't represent yourself then? ... lol

Waveism
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:06:00 - [175]
 

Darius III The Fair for CSM

Learath
Posted - 2011.07.18 19:14:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Dougal Regyri
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~


WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.

You do/say things like this then expect any respect?


your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes

soz m8~



what is quite funny if someone in a REAL political movement made a stupid comment like this his resignation would be expected. It seems to me that your ego has far far exceeded your actual position.

And 70% of Eve players support reducing refine rates by 10%.

Pavel Bidermann
Posted - 2011.07.18 20:03:00 - [177]
 

There is no limit to the Mittani's ego. That's just how he is. He really thinks quite highly of himself. Sadly, that makes for a very poor representative.

All that aside, I would think this is the last CSM. There is no credibility left. Without that there's no sense of representation and any work performed is seen as just an extension of CCP. Even though the CSM may have the best intentions they are constantly undermined by CCP so they really aren’t doing anything other than PR stunts. Too bad because it was yet another great idea sunk by CCP’s mismanagement. Of course, the CSM at some point may want to stop playing along. It may be a bit too late for them though. A lot of damage has been done.

Uearel Atram
Posted - 2011.07.19 04:57:00 - [178]
 

Sure is drama queens ITT.

Garekell
Posted - 2011.07.19 05:35:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Uearel Atram
Sure is drama queens ITT.


In a way yes but not the way you mean. When people care they get a bit dramatic. Nature of the thing really. Dramatic doesn't = negate it.

Kirkland Langue
Posted - 2011.07.19 06:38:00 - [180]
 

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

1) CSM offers a fireside chat with the playerbase to try and address questions/concerns they may have
2) Playerbase asks ONE questions
3) Chairman of CSM says he doesn't care about that issue and doesn't care what the playerbase thinks.


Did I miss anything here? What kind of bad joke is this? Shrug, account expires in 2-3 weeks then I'll stop posting. Wait till some point in the future when CCP can be arsed to put some effort into EVE instead of barbies.


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