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Chidori kun
Minmatar
Starship Operating BastardZ
Posted - 2011.07.12 00:10:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Chidori kun on 12/07/2011 00:15:56
Edited by: Chidori kun on 12/07/2011 00:12:53
Always found it funny when peeps whine about the software cooked my stuff....
Been building PC's for the last 12 years now never ever seen it happen by software.

The only way it can happen is crappy hardware or crappy build hardware.

There is no other way possible to explain it.

But said that, it is possible that software is pushing the hardware to hard.
But again it goes wrong by crappy hardware or crappy build hardware.

How to prevent overheating?
airflow it's said before but it's not only because of the possibility of overheating.
The cooler you PC is running the better it works and the longer you have fun with it.

A good gaming PC is either fluid cooled or has enough fans to be cooled good enough.
It's your responsibility to do so.

Besides good hardware I would say use some braincells and use Google before you buy.
And please do not talk about money... it really does not have to be expensive.

And laptops... oh please buy a real PC, laptops are no gaming machines they never generate enough airflow EVER!


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 00:14:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
CCP would have a much better legal defense...


If they needed one?

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.07.12 13:51:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
CCP would have a much better legal defense...


If they needed one?


Well if someone sues them in small claims court they need a legal defense - or they pay - its not really complicated.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.12 14:03:00 - [34]
 

If your graphics card can be destroyed by the application of 1s and 0s to it, then you best pray lulzhackerz don't get a bright idea.

Many things are CCP's fault, ******ed GFX card manufacturers are not one of them.

BubbaGump ShrimpCo
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.12 14:49:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: BubbaGump ShrimpCo on 12/07/2011 15:26:54
EVE has for a long time been pretty light on resource requirements. There aren't many other games where people routinely load up 3 copies to run simultaneously. It's been that way for years. Suddenly, people have to upgrade to get basically zero gameplay benefit. Plus, CCP has partnered with NVIDIA and we find that players using non-NVIDIA hardware are suffering higher rates of hardware failure and heat issues. Coincidence? Probably. Most likely lack of attention to details.

This doesn't make CCP culpable, but it was an immature, asshat move on their part. If you're essentially going to lock some portion of your player base out of the game, you should have GIANT DISTURBING WARNINGS waaay before hand that say to the players: "Hey, this aint a normal patch. The system resource requirements are going up significantly and testing has shown that many older and mid-ranged machines are going to have trouble with the new client." THEN GIVE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT IS UNLIKELY TO WORK AND WHAT IS PREFERRED. Yes, common sense and experience with the character creator should hint that Incarna was going to require more horsepower. However, that doesn't get CCP off the hook. The didn't do the right thing.

We weren't very well warned and little effort went into helping PAYING CUSTOMERS continue to have access to the game. Honestly, I haven't heard of other games overheating hardware to the point of failure as quickly as happened with Incarna. To me, it just smacks of too little testing, debugging and preparation before roll-out. And, as usual, bad communication. Would you ever remotely expect such a technical, managerial and broad customer-services ****-up from a AAA-class vendor like Blizzard? This kind of upgrade would have come with a utility distributed a month or so before hand that lets you know if your system is up to snuff to run Incarna. Hell, they could have used it as a marketing opportunity with their new VIDEO CARD PARTNER to sell some damn upgrades (offer a coupon, point to current promotions, etc).

Are new video cards owed? No. But I think an apology is in order.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:03:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Illwill Bill on 12/07/2011 15:03:58
Last time I checked, Iceland's consumer rights laws are similar to the ones in the other Nordic countries.YARRRR!!

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:14:00 - [37]
 

Kinda between two sides here, though I agree a GPU should theoretically never die even when used 100%, there are very few games who push it like when docked in a station in Eve now. I have a brand new pc I built myself with good cooling and I know what I'm doing, yet when I load the station environment on full settings my video card fan speeds up like I'm running a graphics card stress test. I can understand lower end systems not being made for 100% stress as no normal games do this for any significant amount of time.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:18:00 - [38]
 

Nope.

You have a legitimate complaint against CCP that Incarna/CQ makes your GPU over heat and TURN OFF

You have a legitimate complaint against your PC MANUFACTURER that your GPU overheats and burns out before turning off.

simple


Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:19:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
No we agree to beta test their terrible code when we download or patch anything.

well. noone force you to download client Very Happy
you can waste your time other way Razz

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:32:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Trillian Stargazer
From tomorrows patch notes...

Users should experience reduced CPU/GPU temperatures while in the Captains Quarters.






5000 ISK says you're from the U.S.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:35:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/07/2011 15:36:23
Originally by: Portmanteau
Nope.

You have a legitimate complaint against CCP that Incarna/CQ makes your GPU over heat and TURN OFF

You have a legitimate complaint against your PC MANUFACTURER that your GPU overheats and burns out before turning off.

simple




Multiple choice, which of the above statements is true? Pick one.

As for going after CCP in small claims court, all they need do (if it even was accepted as prosecutable, which is doubtful) is win the first suit. All they need to is refer to their ELUA, and to their compliance with the manufacturers specs.

Even small claims court frowns on people wasting their time.

If you are feeling froggy, go after your graphics card/PC/laptop manufacturer for satisfaction. You might actually accomplish something there.

Alxea
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:40:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Asta Ddu
No!
They are just going to run a simple test to see if you have a card more than 6 months old or made by anyone other than nVidia, if any are true then EVE will BSOD :P


My card is 2 years old, a mid range card, under 200 bucks. Running multiple clients can NOT do crap in cq under max settings to my cards cooling on AIR.

Crysis 2 on DX11 with extreme settings maxed out gives my card more heat then eve can on max settings and its only 50C. Don't know how people are burning up their cards.

Like that has been said in the past, its a cooling issue, or you just have a nvidia card, witch are pretty much in door grills you can cook food on. Known for their overheating issues.

Solution, get better cooling or don't buy nvidia! Don't know how many times we have to say it. It's not EVE or CCP's problem, its your damn faulty hardware. Rolling Eyes

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:43:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/07/2011 15:36:23
Originally by: Portmanteau
Nope.

You have a legitimate complaint against CCP that Incarna/CQ makes your GPU over heat and TURN OFF

You have a legitimate complaint against your PC MANUFACTURER that your GPU overheats and burns out before turning off.

simple




Multiple choice, which of the above statements is true? Pick one.

As for going after CCP in small claims court, all they need do (if it even was accepted as prosecutable, which is doubtful) is win the first suit. All they need to is refer to their ELUA, and to their compliance with the manufacturers specs.

Even small claims court frowns on people wasting their time.

If you are feeling froggy, go after your graphics card/PC/laptop manufacturer for satisfaction. You might actually accomplish something there.



I think you misunderstand, I said nothing about small claims courts, I said legitimate complaint. If I pay CCP subs and I can't run their game on a decent system without overheating and powering off, I have a legitimate compaint. Same goes with the PC manufacturer failing to set the PC up to auto power off at dangerous temps.

Both statements are true, I was merely pointing out who was responsible in each case

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:45:00 - [44]
 

This is manifacturers fault. It should not be possible to run a card in such a way (without overclocking) that it fails before warranty time expires. Too much cost-cutting engineering.

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:46:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 12/07/2011 15:46:57
Originally by: Important Person
Cooling, HOW DUZ IT WERK?


ROFL, just caught this, +1!


Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
If your graphics card can be destroyed by the application of 1s and 0s to it, then you best pray lulzhackerz don't get a bright idea.

Many things are CCP's fault, ******ed GFX card manufacturers are not one of them.


We agree on something, I for one am shocked! Shocked

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:50:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/07/2011 15:50:35
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/07/2011 15:36:23
Originally by: Portmanteau
Nope.

You have a legitimate complaint against CCP that Incarna/CQ makes your GPU over heat and TURN OFF

You have a legitimate complaint against your PC MANUFACTURER that your GPU overheats and burns out before turning off.

simple




Multiple choice, which of the above statements is true? Pick one.

As for going after CCP in small claims court, all they need do (if it even was accepted as prosecutable, which is doubtful) is win the first suit. All they need to is refer to their ELUA, and to their compliance with the manufacturers specs.

Even small claims court frowns on people wasting their time.

If you are feeling froggy, go after your graphics card/PC/laptop manufacturer for satisfaction. You might actually accomplish something there.



I think you misunderstand, I said nothing about small claims courts, I said legitimate complaint. If I pay CCP subs and I can't run their game on a decent system without overheating and powering off, I have a legitimate compaint. Same goes with the PC manufacturer failing to set the PC up to auto power off at dangerous temps.

Both statements are true, I was merely pointing out who was responsible in each case


My first line was directed to you, not the rest of the post. This is why I typed "As for" to indicate a change of subject matter.

As to the rest of your post... good luck with that. Laughing

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:58:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Hey guys, it's all CCP's fault that the OP didn't upgrade their hardware.


Yeah, because it isn't like CQ overheats a 3 week old GTX 570, hotter infact than flight sims like BlackShark or DCS:Warthog ...... Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:13:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 12/07/2011 22:47:44
Would be nice if CPU/GPU usage would be radically reduced also when CQ (station enviroment) is disabled... as it between hilarious and sad to hear jet engine from computer while staring the door.

...and for the trolls - my rig is totally free of dust and got enough airflow - it is just that the game engine doesn't know how to "idle" cpu at all. Not even while displaying static picture.

sidenote: yes - camping outside station uses about same amount of cpu/gpu than idling in station while station enviroment disabled... If measuring while client is minimized, it uses about 2% more cpu in station than while in space.

Desirsar
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:46:00 - [49]
 

Good to hear I'm not the only person whose PSU, GPU, and CPU fans speed up to 100% the instant I run the EVE client... even though more taxing games don't speed up the fans before they're rendering anything, and don't heat up the CPU and GPU nearly as much. (With the exception of cranking all the graphics settings in extremely new MMOs.)

Tiven loves Tansien
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:10:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Telvani
My laptop just overheated loading the door on 1 Eve client with all settings as low as possible. (it also caused my graphics driver to crash)

(...)

So everyone saying this isn't CCP's fault/problem really needs to get a reality check. Great your PC runs it ok, so does my desktop, so shut up and stop pretending this is a non-issue.

Still your own fault, mate. Laptops aren't really meant to game, you know that (even though they're advertised as such). They have inherent problems, like power requirements, and, most notably, heat dissipation issues.

Incarna is not at fault here: it just pushes people's systems to a CPU/GPU load heretofore not seen all that much; thus merely revealing cooling issues people already had on their system, but which never really showed thus far.


haha you must be stupid irl or something if you're claiming that loading a background (the door) is not something even the cheapest laptop can handle

ahahahaha im still laughing thanks you just made the rest of my day LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:24:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
CCP would have a much better legal defense...


If they needed one?


Well if someone sues them in small claims court they need a legal defense - or they pay - its not really complicated.


So since they aren't being sued in small claims court its even less complicated than you want it to be.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:27:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 12/07/2011 17:28:46
Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
This is manifacturers fault. It should not be possible to run a card in such a way (without overclocking) that it fails before warranty time expires. Too much cost-cutting engineering.


Because nobody but nobody would run an overclocked card and blame CCP when it melts. Not only are EvE players 3 times as smart as the average MMO player, they are 11 times as honest.

Lol, in all seriousness to your reply, I worked at Intel for quite some time. They actually considered selling their chips with liquid cooling at the end of life of single core processors instead of dual core. It wound up being cheaper to re-engineer the microprocessor as we knew it than to cool it properly.

Atomik Harmonik
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:28:00 - [53]
 

I just don't understand what it is about CQ that slows the computer down so much and stresses out even decent computers/graphics cards. The actual space is very small, sure there are a few lighting effects and reflections, but nothing in there, including the character, is more detailed than a Crysis level or any other recent computer game that has multiple lighting sources and reflective surfaces.

Ur235
Mind Games.
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:31:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Ur235 on 12/07/2011 17:32:02

I never had this problem I ran 2 clients on 2 screens on the same pc on 1 card while both clients were open in the CQ for about an hour just to test it and my card didnt even reach above 55 degrees

And no my PC isnt an uber water cooled/nitrogen cooled pc its just your general fan powered cooling system so I dunno what to say to you guys who have been experienceing these problems unlucky perhaps

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:39:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Not only are EvE players 3 times as smart as the average MMO player, they are 11 times as honest.


+1 Laughing

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:56:00 - [56]
 

Well my mobo just died on me, granted it was an ancient ASUS A8N, but still, its dead. Oh well, at least it was a good run. I kinda Blame CCP for maxing my single core CPU to 100%. But they do not take all the blame, TF2 had been giving me lockup issues for the past year and Starcraft 2 always ran a little wonky(purple textures after half an hour). So I guess its finally time to upgrade this 7 year old thing.

DAMN YOU GAME MAKERS WHO MAKE REALLY INTENSIVE GRAPHICS, I WANT MY DOS GRAPHICS BACK.

Mongo LLLLLoid
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:13:00 - [57]
 

Guys! I found a solution!!!!!!

Turn off Captains quarters. CRAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZY I KNOW

They are useless anyway.

Also, quit crying because your dinosaurs from 2004 cant run eve any more at max frame rate...

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:26:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 12/07/2011 18:58:48
Originally by: Shintai
CPUs dont die from heat.


Your statement there pretty much disqualifies your statement here:

Quote:

And graphics cards is the fault of the manufators (nVidia, AMD). For making cards that cant run 100%. Unlike nVidia Tesla cards for example.


You speak of Tesla as if it's meant for the typical consumer. It's not. It's meant for production environments where scalability and reliability is important. It's pretty much the state of the computing industry. There is the consumer market where affordability is more important than reliability. Then there is the production market where reliability and scalability is more important than affordability.

Any limitations on Nvidia products from running for extended periods at 100% utilization are solely heat issues that cause damage. Get the heat off the card quick enough and it'll be fine. I would gather this is more of a card manufacturer's issue than the chip manf's responsibilities. Afterall, it's the card manf's that build the card around the GPU. Add crappy components mixed in with crappy thermal past & crappy heatsink & fan. That's a recipe for a crappy card.

However, that doesn't exactly indemnify CCP from code that might make use of features of the card not meant to be accessed during normal operation. Unfortunately, you'd need a row of lawyers and industry experts to figure that out and recoupe losses due to their implementations.

It's sad for those whose systems have died. The best that can be done is learn from their issues, keep your systems cool, disable quality features or set them to low and move on. It's not all good if you can run CQ at max settings at +60FPS an your GPU temp is hitting +80F. The GPU might take it but, the components around it probably won't for extended periods. Obviously, CCP is optimizing code in the next patch, perhaps disabling some rendering features. IDK. All I know is, CQ isn't all that impressive for me to run my GPU at +70C. Therefore, it's off.

Kinete Jenius
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:23:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: BubbaGump ShrimpCo
Edited by: BubbaGump ShrimpCo on 12/07/2011 15:26:54
EVE has for a long time been pretty light on resource requirements. There aren't many other games where people routinely load up 3 copies to run simultaneously. It's been that way for years. Suddenly, people have to upgrade to get basically zero gameplay benefit. Plus, CCP has partnered with NVIDIA and we find that players using non-NVIDIA hardware are suffering higher rates of hardware failure and heat issues. Coincidence? Probably. Most likely lack of attention to details.

This doesn't make CCP culpable, but it was an immature, asshat move on their part. If you're essentially going to lock some portion of your player base out of the game, you should have GIANT DISTURBING WARNINGS waaay before hand that say to the players: "Hey, this aint a normal patch. The system resource requirements are going up significantly and testing has shown that many older and mid-ranged machines are going to have trouble with the new client." THEN GIVE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT IS UNLIKELY TO WORK AND WHAT IS PREFERRED. Yes, common sense and experience with the character creator should hint that Incarna was going to require more horsepower. However, that doesn't get CCP off the hook. The didn't do the right thing.

We weren't very well warned and little effort went into helping PAYING CUSTOMERS continue to have access to the game. Honestly, I haven't heard of other games overheating hardware to the point of failure as quickly as happened with Incarna. To me, it just smacks of too little testing, debugging and preparation before roll-out. And, as usual, bad communication. Would you ever remotely expect such a technical, managerial and broad customer-services ****-up from a AAA-class vendor like Blizzard? This kind of upgrade would have come with a utility distributed a month or so before hand that lets you know if your system is up to snuff to run Incarna. Hell, they could have used it as a marketing opportunity with their new VIDEO CARD PARTNER to sell some damn upgrades (offer a coupon, point to current promotions, etc).

Are new video cards owed? No. But I think an apology is in order.

Basically about any serious MMO player loads up multiple copies of their favorite MMO. All the machines in my house hold run ATI GPUs and NONE of them have heat or performance problems (then again I run routine maintenance including blowing out the cases/heatsinks). My weakest machine an old athlon +2400 OCed with an all in wonder 9600 pro still runs the game pretty well even post patch. In fact my machines are way over due for me to apply new thermal paste but their temps are running fine so I haven't bothered to do so.

It's funny that I'm having no issues dual clienting with high details at 1920x1200 and 1280x1024 with a +3 year old machine that cost about 600 bucks to build back then yet according to you I shouldn't even be capable of running one client. I could very very easily build a complete system capable of running eve on full settings for about the same price today if I had to buy a monitor/keyboard/etc.


Quote:
Would be nice if CPU/GPU usage would be radically reduced also when CQ (station enviroment) is disabled... as it between hilarious and sad to hear jet engine from computer while staring the door.
Something is seriously wrong with your rig I would highly suggest you either check the thermal paste on your GPU or make sure there is adequate ventilation in your case. I am currently running two clients in the CQ with high details with a 5770 and the fanspeed is only at 50% and it's not audible even when I turn down my case fans (GPU is 48c with an ambient air temp of 27c)..

BTW THis rig is an e7200 OCed to 3003 mhz with the bus running at 1600mhz and the 5770 is usually run at normal clock speeds since OCing doesn't produce enough bang for the mhz.



Nuhm DeAra
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:25:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Nuhm DeAra on 12/07/2011 19:25:34

Originally by: Kerrisone
No we agree to beta test their terrible code when we download or patch anything.


Derrrrrp, or maybe the 486 users could have logged on the numerous times this expansion was available via Duality and SiSi.

No, that makes too much sense. Just like the answers to all of the other stupid questions on this forum.


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