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blankseplocked Excuse me: is this EVE Online or Hello Kitty Online?
 
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Seven Sphynx
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:06:00 - [1]
 

Because, honestly, I am not so sure anymore.
I know this horse has been flogged almost to death already, and I am sorry I felt I had to create a new thread about it - if this upsets you, stop reading now.

Synopsis:

There is simply absolutely no valid argument to support indestructible items in EVE, no matter whether they affect your combat/ship stats directly or not.


It is one of the few unwritten universal "laws" of EVE that did not change since EVE was created - until Incarna: all stuff player characters can use, fly, wear (implants), trade etc. can also be blown up in space, in any system, up to 1.0 security. This is one of the aspects that made EVE unique. Not the graphics, not the game mechanics (that leave enough to be desired)

Besides, Monocles (and the related NeX store issues) already affected EVE gameplay more than probably ANY other item in the history of EVE online:
  • they made over 3000 players cancel over 5000 accounts within a few days. Many of these are old and experienced players that are actually integral PART of the EVE content and have also been constantly CREATING content for younger players.

  • they created a new class of "wannabe snob" trolls (see the megadaft "Monocle Overlords" corp) that regard non monocle wearing players in EVE as "peasants" or "peons" (god, are you pathetic)

  • they fueled one of the greatest in-game revolts EVE has experienced since its inception


NOTHING should be indestructible in EVE, no exceptions, no matter how stupidly expensive and whether you think it is a "useful" item or not.

Talking about expensive: yes, it is really beyond ridiculous to ask more for a virtual NeX t-shirt than a real one in the EVE-store. But CCP knows that, according to statistics, there is a good percentage of the EVE population (of which I rather doubt the mental sanity) ready to buy such overpriced vanity items thinking to be "l33t".

I personally do not give a damn if there are players daft enough to spend billions on their useless monocles: it is their damn right to do so. But as a pirate I should have my damn right to blow their pods up, together with whatever expensive stupid piece of clothing, jewelry, or eye-wear they have on. The more they paid for the useless item, the more their day will be miserable, and mine glorious YARRRR!!

And don't give me any of "you are naked in your pod" bull****. If you were naked when you ENTER the pod, then you would be also naked when you EXIT the pod at your destination station AND you would have no access to whatever item you were wearing. Thinking there is an exact copy of all your personal "vanity" items waiting for you in every single of the several thousands space stations in EVE is a stretch even for those that like to pull arguments out of their ar$e.

To those that argue that EVE has a lot of "unrealistic" aspects anyways, like up and down in space, max ship speed etc.: in a SF movie or game, you CAN define "laws of physics" that are different from our world. It is all fine, as long as all game play is coherent with those artificially created "rules". The overpriced and indestructible NeX stuff do not fit within the dark, unforgiving and dystopian EVE universe; it dumbs this game down to a level some of us do not want to be part of it anymore.

Cheers, Seven Sphynx (PvP alt of Xenomorphea, whose account has expired a few days ago)

tl;dr : As Mechanoid Kryten said not so long ago: Eve is the game that takes your cookie away from you, NOT the game that sells cookies for RL currency. Now with this NeX store EVE turned into a sort of Hello Kitty online, Gratz, CCPShocked

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:09:00 - [2]
 

Our characters are indestructible...

Fayah Aurilen
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:12:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Ehdward
Our characters are indestructible...


http://www.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/badum-tish.jpg?62804

Image changed to URL. Zymurgist

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:12:00 - [4]
 

Sooooo... everytime I lose my pod I should have to purchase new clothes all over again and my avatar reverts back to a ghost until I recustomize myself?



Yea... that's gonna happen Laughing

7Boy Curry
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:13:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ehdward
Our characters are indestructible...


Technically no. Your soul is transported back to a new body in event of your death. You lose your implants, and have to buy a new clone. Very Happy

I think people are arguung that it's not fair that you lose everything, except a piece of jewelry....

Not really the biggest issue in Eve, but he is correct.


Valkmar
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:14:00 - [6]
 

i just....i just........ i just don't know what to say anymore Sad

Seven Sphynx
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:16:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ehdward
Our characters are indestructible...


Nope. Each of our clones and any implant we are wearing could until now be destroyed in combat. Only our "personality" survives, and survives intact only as long as your clone is up to date. Plus, characters ban be "biomassed" :-)

Fayah Aurilen
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:18:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Seven Sphynx
Originally by: Ehdward
Our characters are indestructible...


Nope. Each of our clones and any implant we are wearing could until now be destroyed in combat. Only our "personality" survives, and survives intact only as long as your clone is up to date. Plus, characters ban be "biomassed" :-)


And the monocle survives this "biomassing", how?

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:18:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 11/07/2011 20:20:19
If I have to spend $15 just to buy 'white t-shirt' and 'black tennis shoes' to be able to recustomize myself after every podding before I can even play the game or undock, I and about 99% of the subscribers will disappear over night to ANYWHERE ELSE.

Because remember, you are now forced to recustomize if you currently have no avatar, and you have to have actual clothing, i.e. this argument is absurd, unless ALL our clothes including 'free' ones are destroyed upon podding, your argument makes about as much sense as a chess piece at a hockey game not to mention the fact that we don't wear our clothes when we get into our pod anyways, it all stays in station.

True story.

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:20:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Seven Sphynx
Originally by: Ehdward
Our characters are indestructible...


Nope. Each of our clones and any implant we are wearing could until now be destroyed in combat. Only our "personality" survives, and survives intact only as long as your clone is up to date. Plus, characters ban be "biomassed" :-)


My character had an implant on the face of every clone until Incarna came out. The only difference is that it wasn't represented by an item. Do minnies need to get their tattoos redone every time they die?

Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:20:00 - [11]
 

I aggree with OP, except that Monocles were not the real reason so many people unsubbed. Aside from that yeah, we should be able to blow monocles up. We have to buy new implants every time were podded and good slaves cost more than a monocle.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:22:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Maduin Ardens
If I have to spend $15 just to buy 'white t-shirt' and 'black tennis shoes' to be able to recustomize myself after every podding before I can even play the game or undock, I and about 99% of the subscribers will disappear over night to ANYWHERE ELSE.


Free clothing should be there. Additional vanity items should be destroyed.

If you don't want the risk, don't use it. THAT IS EVE!

The current vanity items totally break the spirit of EVE. It is just a horrible approach - completely against everything that is important in EVE. No risk, no sandbox, no player manufacturing etc.

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:24:00 - [13]
 

Actually there is a valid reason.

Any item bought off the NEX system ultimately cost RL cash, and if destructible would cost RL cash to replace.
With all the bad press with the NEX system exactly how much bad press would come out of it if said items could be destroyed ?

I think you got a better chance of seeing implants on your kill boards then seeing NEX items.








Seven Sphynx
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:25:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Maduin Ardens
Sooooo... everytime I lose my pod I should have to purchase new clothes all over again and my avatar reverts back to a ghost until I recustomize myself?

Yea... that's gonna happen Laughing


No, you can of course wear again similar clothes, which are anyway standard cheap clothes available throughout the EVE universe for a fee that (let's pull an argument out of my own ar$e, for a change) is included in your up-to-grade clone payment.

Vanity items, however ... that is something NON standard you purchase extra, and yes, they should be gone with your body. OR they should remain at the station you left, if you insist to be naked in your pod, and have no storage on board. So if you want to wear them in another station, you would have to carry them in your cargo -> and hence be destroyable.

Worried about wearing expensive items in low or null sec? well, then DON'T.

Makko Gray
Pheno-Tech Industries
Crimson Wings.
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:26:00 - [15]
 

The clothes we start with are indestructible...

There are a hundred reasons that can be thought up to justify their indestructibility. The only way in which store items currently affect normal game play is that it's a new ISK/PLEX sink that will mean ISK isn't being spent on other in game items and PLEX not being used for game time.

I'm quite happy to have Barbies in space remain a niche sideline to allow us to add some back-story and depth to our characters without being something that has to be part of the main game play. That said I think the current pricing policy excludes newer players from taking part (unless they part with real cash) - I'd like to see a basic tier cheaper that those mentioned, either in the store or manufactured by players.

Other than that for those that are not interested in playing dress up the only things that have really changed are that you've lost you hanger to spin ships in (which is actually tragic) and there may not be a great deal of content for you in this expansion.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:27:00 - [16]
 

IF the whining on this forum is any indication it's Hello Kitty In Space...

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Seven Sphynx
Originally by: Maduin Ardens
Sooooo... everytime I lose my pod I should have to purchase new clothes all over again and my avatar reverts back to a ghost until I recustomize myself?

Yea... that's gonna happen Laughing


No, you can of course wear again similar clothes, which are anyway standard cheap clothes available throughout the EVE universe for a fee that (let's pull an argument out of my own ar$e, for a change) is included in your up-to-grade clone payment.

Vanity items, however ... that is something NON standard you purchase extra, and yes, they should be gone with your body. OR they should remain at the station you left, if you insist to be naked in your pod, and have no storage on board. So if you want to wear them in another station, you would have to carry them in your cargo -> and hence be destroyable.

Worried about wearing expensive items in low or null sec? well, then DON'T.


You can't have it both ways. Are you willing to cough up $15 every time you are podded just to get a shirt on your back so you can undock again?

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:34:00 - [18]
 

I don't think this is about an immersion issue or a gameplay issue for that matter.

You have an avatar, you can have him look the way you like, awesome, now, some are willing to pay to look different, why does everyone want to utterly strip that away from them by killing them.

This sounds a lot like bitter resentment, you want to put dirt in the face of people who accepted the features you hated and out of spite, deny them what they paid for.

Seven Sphynx
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Borun Tal
IF the whining on this forum is any indication it's Hello Kitty In Space...


It is the same old story: if an argument is presented in a valid form supported by logic and facts, the best attempt to demolish it is to ditch it as a "whine" and the player as a "bittervet".

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:35:00 - [20]
 

WTF peasant OP noob. Monocle Overlords is an alliance, not corp.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:35:00 - [21]
 

We only wish this were Hello Kitty Online.

<obligatory>
Kestrel and Apocalypse
</obligatory>

Just waiting on the new paint-your-ship feature.

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:39:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 11/07/2011 20:40:09
Originally by: Nerodon
I don't think this is about an immersion issue or a gameplay issue for that matter.

You have an avatar, you can have him look the way you like, awesome, now, some are willing to pay to look different, why does everyone want to utterly strip that away from them by killing them.

This sounds a lot like bitter resentment, you want to put dirt in the face of people who accepted the features you hated and out of spite, deny them what they paid for.


Pretty much this, none of the standard clothes are destructible but the NEX store items should be? Seems awfully convenient stretch of logic to have it both ways.

OP seems to think NEX items should be in some magic storage box within the pod, same argument stands, if you have to carry your NEX goods around with you everywhere to keep your avatar current, how do you magically get new clothes when you arrive at some distant outpost in a pod with no clothes on board and just a monocle? CCP would have to charge you $$$ to get new clothes everywhere you docked, simply to dock a station, OR require you carry your clothes with you everywhere you go, but then only the NEX items would get destroyed when your pod goes up in smoke?

I think more and more about this OP and what they are actually saying and am beginning to feel like we're being trolled hard, and fast.

Seven Sphynx
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:40:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Nerodon
I don't think this is about an immersion issue or a gameplay issue for that matter.

You have an avatar, you can have him look the way you like, awesome, now, some are willing to pay to look different, why does everyone want to utterly strip that away from them by killing them.

This sounds a lot like bitter resentment, you want to put dirt in the face of people who accepted the features you hated and out of spite, deny them what they paid for.


If you never role played a pirate psychopath who just enjoys blowing up stuff (tm) for the sheer pleasure of it, you cannot understand how players like me feel: you are denying my RP purpose in game, which IS to make YOU feel miserable and low sec a dark, dangerous place to live in or travel through.

Of course, I could still have a brilliant career as a Jita scammer, selling a$$rings for monocles.

DeepBlueMax
New Eden Renegades
Burn Away
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:42:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: 7Boy Curry
Originally by: Ehdward
Our characters are indestructible...


Technically no. Your soul...




Rolling Eyes srsly... can we keep the silly rl fairy tales out of this make believe world of space-faring immortality, you are disturbing my Weltanschauung. Uncool.

Nuhm DeAra
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:46:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Nuhm DeAra on 11/07/2011 20:46:12
Attention mentally handicapped whiners and general forum goers!

YOU ARE NAKED INSIDE OF YOUR POD.

This is the 87 billionth thread on this subject. You are, in fact, beating a dead-horse that shouldn't even exist.

Read some lore, educate yourself. Yes, it is a valid argument. Now shut up.

Yarrrrrhh
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:49:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nuhm DeAra
Edited by: Nuhm DeAra on 11/07/2011 20:46:12
Attention mentally handicapped whiners and general forum goers!

YOU ARE NAKED INSIDE OF YOUR POD.
Monocles are still worn when being naked. It makes no sense to have them surgically removed whenever you enter a pod.

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:50:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Seven Sphynx
... There is simply absolutely no valid argument to support indestructible items in EVE, no matter whether they affect your combat/ship stats directly or not. ...
Not quite. There's no valid in game argument. The reasoning is almost certainly this:

CCP wants to sell lots of MT goods at high prices. If these items can be destroyed by podding, no sane individual would buy them, given that there are probably folks out there ganking monocle wearers for the lulz and in hopes that there are NeX Store items in their cargo that might drop.

In other words "Greed is good". (Where have we heard that before?)

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:51:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Seven Sphynx
I personally do not give a damn if there are players daft enough to spend billions on their useless monocles: it is their damn right to do so. But as a pirate I should have my damn right to blow their pods up, together with whatever expensive stupid piece of clothing, jewelry, or eye-wear they have on. The more they paid for the useless item, the more their day will be miserable, and mine glorious YARRRR!!
I sincerely hope that this comment right here finally and once and for all dispells the idiotic belief that pirates are simply "roleplaying" the part and that they would never ever in any way attempt to hurt someone in real life. Idiots such as this OP obviously are looking to cause real life suffering.


Nuhm DeAra
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:53:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Nuhm DeAra
Edited by: Nuhm DeAra on 11/07/2011 20:46:12
Attention mentally handicapped whiners and general forum goers!

YOU ARE NAKED INSIDE OF YOUR POD.
Monocles are still worn when being naked. It makes no sense to have them surgically removed whenever you enter a pod.


And if you blubbering idiots would have read the thread I posted a day ago, you'd know that the monocle is the only exception.

Yet, I'm sure CCP's writers are much smarter than you and could even come up with a reason for that.

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:53:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Nerodon on 11/07/2011 20:57:20
Originally by: Seven Sphynx
Originally by: Nerodon
I don't think this is about an immersion issue or a gameplay issue for that matter.

You have an avatar, you can have him look the way you like, awesome, now, some are willing to pay to look different, why does everyone want to utterly strip that away from them by killing them.

This sounds a lot like bitter resentment, you want to put dirt in the face of people who accepted the features you hated and out of spite, deny them what they paid for.


If you never role played a pirate psychopath who just enjoys blowing up stuff (tm) for the sheer pleasure of it, you cannot understand how players like me feel: you are denying my RP purpose in game, which IS to make YOU feel miserable and low sec a dark, dangerous place to live in or travel through.

Of course, I could still have a brilliant career as a Jita scammer, selling a$$rings for monocles.


You already have PLENTY of ways to create tears amongst the players you prey on. Why can't you let this particular feature go? I understand that you'd like to keep the game a dark and unsafe place (because it is). But it's enough to make a new player cry because he lost a few hours investment for his new ship, but you have to rob him of his real-life money investments too? You are indeed a pirate psychopath!

I would also think it would be cool to have them destructible (Like PLEX are) but at this point I side with keeping them indestructible simply because they aren't related to flying in space at all! It isnt a ship, or a bonus giving item... Its an avatar customization, if CCP would let your $$$ investments in your avatar go boom it would just be a giant hassle and very frustrating, rendering the feature quite useless.

Think about it, if everyone had these on, they would be less willing to fight you and more willing to station hog! How would that improve the game?

All it would benefit, is the ego of bitter pirates wanting to cause as much harm to others as they can. Playing Eve is their virtual equivalent of bullying the other kids at recess. Give it a rest!


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