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FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.24 15:37:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 24/02/2005 15:36:59
Originally by: Demarcus
My corp only has 1 person in it and that person is my 1 and only character and I know of several other corps like mine. You shouldn't dump everyone into the same catagory when you really have no idea if it is an alt or not.


I can see why people have one-person corps, but to be honest it's a bit of a waste isn't it?

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2005.02.24 15:49:00 - [32]
 

See, I thought the the high rents for offices and labs were just money sinks so that CCP could bleed off some of the outragous amounts of money that is currently out there.

Nifel
PAX Technologies
Posted - 2005.02.24 16:19:00 - [33]
 

Have people overbid the office renter?:)

ALTNAME
Posted - 2005.02.24 17:10:00 - [34]
 

They specifically want those established in the game to have lab slots only, otherwise the prices would not be high enough for the new idiots to buy their bp's at.


Carter Burke
Posted - 2005.02.24 17:38:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Antic
Originally by: pshepherd
Originally by: EvilDoomer

ITS A GAME.



If CCP did this everyone would have everything they wanted, and therefore get bored quickly Rolling Eyes



Oh so its a better solution to get people to leave out of frustration isntead? :P FYI, frustration tend to make people loose interest faster than boredom :) Boredom can be solved with new content, frustration cant as its usualy caused by problems with already existing content.


If you feel so disadvantaged and abused, leave.

CB

Filiberto
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2005.02.24 18:31:00 - [36]
 


sorry if this has been said but you when you create a corp your hq is at that station.
You don't have any office there just your hq you need to rent an office to take up space at that station and start paying rent(an hq doesn't recuire rent payment). hope that makes sense.Embarassed


Harry Voyager
Jolly Codgers
Posted - 2005.02.24 20:18:00 - [37]
 

Well, it is a blatent disreguard of market dynamics.

Does it really cost most of the stations there more than 100m to install a new office? Surely the DED can easily put together a few more hangers and bays when people are paying that much a time span for them.

And if it *does* cost more than a few hundred million isk to instal a new office, why are they charging 40k isk for them in outlying regions? Surely they're losing money at an immense rate charging so little for their real-estate.

Harry Voyager

Dionysus Davinci
The Scope
Posted - 2005.02.24 20:25:00 - [38]
 

There is no cap on rent for offices, labs, and factories and there never should be. If the slots are full, then it is in high demand and should in turn cost that. You think you can find a low income house on society hill in Philly?

Plus, I wanna see how stupid corps can be with their money.

Hey, you could always declare war on a corp that has offices there and try to chase them out to free slots to keep rent low.

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2005.02.25 10:39:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Bawldeux IV

you cant have an office in a station without having the corp hanger too....if you ment lab slots, thats another subjectTwisted Evil


yes you can.

If you create a corp in a station with full office slots you get a "phantom" office in that station.

This phantom office is there so people can actually click a "join corp" button and was introduced where there werent ANY offices available.

this phantom office however does not give you access to a corp hangar...

Phades
Posted - 2005.02.25 12:36:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Phades on 25/02/2005 12:41:23
Originally by: Omber Zombie

Agreed, I wish they had put in a office/factory/lab escrow system. I also wish there was an ingame auction system too. But alas there isn't. Does that mean we shouldn't auction gear off on the forums. Only sell it on escrow or the market?


Fairly positive that the escrow and market existed before these forums were available for auctioning. More to the point, rather than taking a stance on something like this where the attempt to limit it would directly affect anyone merly trying to use the space then release the space would cause more problems then it would solve.

Originally by: Omber Zombie

Just beacuse you can shoot at predictable computer run pirates does not mean you can fight well against other players. However, that is an entirely differnt topic for discussion.

PvP stands for Player vs. Player. That is not limited to fighting someone in your ship. It is also about cornering the market, any market, including real estate. If there is a profit to be made from someone else, why not profit?

To bring a real life example as you did is pointless. Those rules/laws do not exist in this game currently, so it is a moot point saying that if you did it in RL you would be sued. If you don't like what people are doing, you have numerous options. Declare war, if you can't fight yourself, hire someone else to kill them. If they don't leave the station, economically ruin them by using your own isk to either undercut them at a slight loss, or even purchase everything they make and resell at a higher price.
Of course, you could always be nice about it and talk to them about it. Maybe they don't want the office as much as you do, and your willing to pay them to give it up?
If all else fails - accept your loss and move somewhere else.



First off i never stated anywhere that the only form of pvp existed through direct conflict by the use of force. I was merly using an example of a opinion that permiates through these forums by older users such as yourself in the attempt to dictate to anyone how things should be, much in the same manner you are, just because it has been the status quo. Furthermore i continued the same line of thought as many of the same indiivudals use things that are real world answers to things that the game are based off of. If the real world didnt exist then well we all would be rather confused at what would be acceptable now wouldnt we. If you are looking for a lab to use, for instance, then how could you undercut their product of a bpc? If you declare war on them, what good will it do if the character is an alt that never leaves the station? Unlike the normal market, escrow is viewed globally, so attempting to buy out then resell is not an option if any other entities exist within the market place keeping the average price stable.

-nearly forgot one thing, in reference to the npcs the raw damage dealt and able to recieve would place the user in a position that would allow them to be able to handle many different tpes of conflict. Moving past that into behavioral patterns of individuals, it can be easy to find similar habits in terms of raw combat practice, which can reduce the opponent to a level nearly as predictable as a computer controlled AI. Can i do this in this game currently? no. Could other individuals, yes, as i imagine that many of the major alliance and pvp corps have leaders which direct their fleet and squad/gang actions succesfully.

Time in game does not dictate levels of intellegence or comprehension............

Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.02.25 12:54:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/02/2005 13:06:28
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/02/2005 13:01:30
Originally by: Phades
Time in game does not dictate levels of intellegence or comprehension............


Correct.

But that still doesn't mean you are making any sense tbh. Maybe I am stupidified by my long time of playing Eve...But I see little point in your above post.

Let me read the ones prior to it and edit Neutral
Edit:

Ok, read the whole thread again, you made not a single valid point.

First of all, we are talking Yulai.
If some altcorp (which would very well be an altcorp of some very big corp like our own that just doesnt want it known that they produce alot of stuff too), can pay for an office in Yulai (if thats what she saw, not a simple HQ without office lease), then so be it.

Try getting an office somewhere 3 jumps away where they are cheaper. Or like said before, think of other ways to get that office.

Eve hands you nothing on a platter, thats one of the mains characteristics of this game. And it is the best part of it. YOU want something ? YOU figure out how to get it.

If I wanted a Yuali alt corp office for one of my alts I would have one by the end of next week. But why the hell would I want one at umpteen millions a month anyway when an office 3 jumps away goes for 1 mill a months and is just as good ?

As to taking the whole discussion to labslots, BPO's, competetive producing for new players etc. What is the problem ? You can't think of a way in which to outcompete some competitor ? Wouldn't that be a problem of simple lack of imagination rather then the fact that he has had a labslot and can produce with 1% less waste ?

I mean, but a frigging bpc for next to nothing and you could be producing at the same lvl of waste but without the cost of that labslot, which he probably still pays even if its economically no longer viable to pay that rent...

Tried producing for a niche market ?
Trie producing and selling at very high prices and actually making money by going somewhere where demand outstrips supply ?

Work that brain, that's what this game is for, not for mindless crafting to sell to some NPC vendor at always X price.

Kroy
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2005.02.25 13:22:00 - [42]
 

Adapt or die. At all levels of Eve. We aren't citizens of a democratic society, we play by CCPs rules and have little or no opportunity to influence that on a daily basis. Not that it stops anyone from trying!

Why shouldn't a corp of one or two members be able to afford and effectively use a lab slot? I can think of a couple of one man corps that hold a significant amount of wealth and assets (in the many billions of isk category). They probably have more isk than most of us posting in this forum combined.

There would be something to have in making the max number of offices you can rent related to a skill level. At least that would be consistent with the changes that CCP like to make in Eve. :-/

It would be handy if you could corp rent Labslots without needing offices (perhaps a lab includes a little hanger for BPs to be placed in) and also Factories (input, processing and output areas included).


/me throws in tuppence ha'penny.








Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2005.02.25 13:24:00 - [43]
 

Quote:
Fairly positive that the escrow and market existed before these forums were available for auctioning. More to the point, rather than taking a stance on something like this where the attempt to limit it would directly affect anyone merely trying to use the space then release the space would cause more problems then it would solve.


The comment was made in response to your logic of not allowing people to sell real estate due to there being no in-game mechanics for it. I see you missed the point again.

Quote:
First off i never stated anywhere that the only form of pvp existed through direct conflict by the use of force.

no, you just ignored the concept of it to try and put forward your point.

Quote:

I was merly using an example of a opinion that permiates through these forums by older users such as yourself in the attempt to dictate to anyone how things should be, much in the same manner you are, just because it has been the status quo.

Actually, I am a big fan of change, but not change that effects the core rules of the game that I, and many others, have come to love. I'm not attempting to dictate anything to you, I am just trying to point out the error in your thought processes. I have no need to dictate to you.

Quote:

Furthermore i continued the same line of thought as many of the same indiivudals use things that are real world answers to things that the game are based off of. If the real world didnt exist then well we all would be rather confused at what would be acceptable now wouldnt we.


And that was the error. While you almost get it, you still missed it. I won't get into philosophy (this forum isn;t the place for it), but this is a game. Set in the future. While tehre must be some basis in reality for the game to exist, it doesn't necessarily mean that the same rules or laws must be followed. Whic country's rules would you like us to use? The USA? one of the European countries? how about one of the Middle East countries? Hell how about sea based salvage laws? Eve's laws/rules are based on an amalgamation of many of them, and some rules don't exist at all. Again, I'll ask you not to bring Real World laws and arguments into it because they don't fit.
Quote:

If you are looking for a lab to use, for instance, then how could you undercut their product of a bpc? If you declare war on them, what good will it do if the character is an alt that never leaves the station? Unlike the normal market, escrow is viewed globally, so attempting to buy out then resell is not an option if any other entities exist within the market place keeping the average price stable.


If the price for a bpc is stable, and the nutter is using a lab costing 15x more than the lab you use 3 jumps away - which one of you will make more profit if you are selling at the same price? You said it yourself, escrow is global, why do you need the lab in yulai?

Quote:

truncatedstuff about npc's and predictability.


I can count on one hand the number of fleet commanders in this game that I would trust with my clone to predict an enemy's actions. Why are we discussing this anyway? Move it to a different topic if you would like this discussion to continue.

Quote:
Time in game does not dictate levels of intellegence or comprehension............

No it doesn't, but it helps.

and thank you for not using Rolling Eyes again

Phades
Posted - 2005.02.26 10:00:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Phades on 26/02/2005 10:04:11
You miss my point as well being that any method to take steps to prevent sales would hamper the basic use of said object. This can be illustrated with many locations and the current alteration to the fees with the use of labs and offices. Granted, there are labs in less secure space, even a possibility to find and use them; however, the suggestion for a newer player to be forced to move away from secure space to do so and fall into the trap of not having suitable combat skills needed to suvive against a more experienced player lying in wait or hunting is not the answer either.

A patitent individual can sell something anywhere in the market, unless the sell orders are stacked very heavily. If that is the case the only option would be to have skills and research equal to the others in order compete on a cost level. Moving away from where people exist is more of a gamble than a sure fire formula for sucess in terms of selling things. If there is a reason for people to exist and is found, then a possible market can open and using the current map options can lead to pinning down of where those places are, but like the lab situation, being forced into low sec is not the answer. Choosing to do so and being able to operate in such an environment can be a solution for an experienced player.

If there was a way to move the majority of the older/more experienced players out of the inner hub of systems it would be a step in the right direction to assist those who are newer facing the new challenges in the economic side of the game that did not always exist. The side effect of any such change would make collecting the more desirable items more of a hassle and very few games have pulled such a setting off sucessfully. One of the problems/focal points of the game is the limited resources available, however the focal point becomes a problem when the resources become artificially swallowed up by things like alts. Hoarding said assest for the sole purpose of selling also adds to the situation, but it can be also attributed to the lack of possible scaling of assets to match the current character base of players. While i have read that such a reworking of scale has occured in the past, another retooling in such a manner could have zero impact due to the current systems for control with those assets.

I do agree that not everyone needs an office in Yulai, actually no one technically needs an office, factory, or lab there to be productive. On the other side of the coin comes from one of my experiences while playing the game, where i never saw an open lab slot anywhere and only heard of lab slots being unrented via bug or gained via trade until very recently. Even though now, the use of such an asset has questionable returns over time, item dependant of course. By contrast i never had any issue locating a suitable factory if i desired to. I would expect more of a middle ground between these two situations under a fully functioning system.

Aside from the abrasive and borderline abusive response, which caused my posts to be in the same kind, i was merly trying to point out that there are problems with the system and that for some of the issues like trading there are no easy solutions and many soulutions could cause a detrement to all users under the system. Also that said situation can and does promote the problem rather than cater towards the solution. I appologise for not making my posts in the how to make a peanut butter sandwich method, allowing some thought towards the idea, rather than the context of the post.

><; grammer...

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2005.02.26 10:28:00 - [45]
 

Read what he says here: Linkage

If he is right then it explains a lot of things lol.

Novarei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.02.26 10:54:00 - [46]
 

If you cant afford an office in yulai dont rent one, simple as that. Its the whole point of the game, if you want an office somewhere expensive join or make a bigger corp.

A busy area like Yulai should be expensive, it adds more depth to the game imo.

Bawldeux IV
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.28 19:48:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Ravenal
Originally by: Bawldeux IV

you cant have an office in a station without having the corp hanger too....if you ment lab slots, thats another subjectTwisted Evil


yes you can.

If you create a corp in a station with full office slots you get a "phantom" office in that station.

This phantom office is there so people can actually click a "join corp" button and was introduced where there werent ANY offices available.

this phantom office however does not give you access to a corp hangar...



thnx, was not aware of that change!Very Happy


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